[sarduy]

hello forks, i know a few things about rifles and handguns, but i'm complete new to shotguns and i would like some help. i dont know the loads for shotguns other than the slugs, to me all others are the same, i read about the #00 or #000 something like that. Don't get me wrong, i have shot shotguns before with slugs and i really love it, in fact i just got my first shotgun today, (mossberg 500 road-blocker) and when to wallmart and got a few boxes of slugs and some 'winchester super speed xtra" but i have a question, What does it mean if a shotgun shell is a six shot? and can anyone explain me how to understand the loads?

Thanks.

By the way, this my new shotgun.

http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/46053/2660278470095461090S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2660278470095461090Ephlpi)

http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/44880/2301672360095461090S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2301672360095461090gbscOF)

[hoodfu]

Bird and buck shot are numbered, higher the number, the smaller the pellets, and usually the more of them in the load. 7.5 birdshot is typical skeet/trap load, with 00 buck (one of the largest sizes) is excellent for defense (can penetrate walls though). About halfway down is a good set of tables that shows number of pellets/size of pellet/sizing number for bird and buck loads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell

[Todd A]

Here is a link to a chart for the differant sizes of shot....

#6 is 0.1090" in diameter and has app 225 pellets per oz.

http://www.wilsonprecision.com/shotinfo.html


Now take out your new shotgun and put a few hundred shells through it.:)

In my opinion ,stick to lowbrass target or field loads for now till you get the hang of the PGO. The can be brutal on your hand. (A normal shoulder stock is far more comfortable).

[highorder]

That's a nice shotgun.

Buy a full stock like this (http://www.mossberg.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=95030&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.exe%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates\MossPdgNav\SearchResult.html%26category%3DSTOC) for $42.50, remove that crap from the muzzle, and shoot that thing!

[hoodfu]

I'd be curious to know what the increase in noise is for the people to the left and right of the shooter with that break on there.

[ga red clay]

The gas blow out toward the upper-sides of my mossy with ported barrel is pretty extreme. I cant imagine what it's like with that brake. I would def. take the brake off the end, maybe leave the shield on, and shoot the mess out of it. If its your first, youll find out after one of those boxes of slugs if you really like that pistol grip. I've always hated every PG i've ever shot. You cant aim/point worth crap, and dont dare putting it next to your eye trying to aim, or you'll be looking at a nice little shiner.

Also, pay attention to the chambering of your gun. There are 2.75" shells, 3" shells (sometimes called magnums), and 3.5" shells (sometimes called magnums or super magnums). There are some smaller or longer shells out there, but those three will cover what you will find in most stores. This is literally talking about how long each shell is. The larger the shell size, the more shot/charge it can carry. Your gun is chambered for UP TO 3" shells. 2.75 (2 and three quarter on the box) and 3 inch shells will fit.

There's my contribution. Welcome to the wonderful world of scatterguns.

[RandKL]

That brake works. Buckshot feels like light target loads. You're going to enjoy that.

Keep the strap. It's there for a reason. Anyone tells you otherwise probably doesn't know the reason.

The aimpoint....that's a pretty far reach. Pistol grip shooting should be done at chest level with your eyeball instinctively lining up the barrel and target. If you have it up high enough to use the aimpoint, you're looking to get hurt.

Great gun. If you need any tech help, feel free to ask.

rich

[The Captain]

I pick up and finger that shotgun at every show I attend. I need another shotgun like another hole in the head.

But, MAN i want it!

:D

[buckeye8]

The red-dot actually serves a useful purpose: It forces the user to position the pistol-gripped shotgun close enough to his face to give them the smack upside the head that he deserves! :neener:

All in good fun. If you like it, go have fun with it!

Edit: And RandKL is right about the strap. When I first bought my 500 SPX (see, I'm not fuddy), I thought the strap was the most pointless feature on it. After using it for awhile, I have found it to be one of the most indispensable features of the gun.

[sarduy]

Thanks for all the info, it help me understand the shotshells, BTW, the reddot works just fine

[AcceptableUserName]

I'll respect your insight when you can say a single thing about WHY you like it and why it would work effectively for you other than it looks cool. If you bought it because it looks cool, well okay that's your right. But don't discredit the opinions of those who think it's a silly piece of junk until you can tell them why it isn't.


So far, RandKL has been the only one with a thoughtful stance on why it works. I can respect that.


My personal take on it is that it's a great STARTING point for a shotgun...whether the brake works or not I don't know, but I can handle the recoil of standard full power 00 buck all day long so it would not be worth the extended length and price markup. The red dot thing is a silly idea to begin with and the fact that you considered it and again defended it proves to everyone you know very little about the subject.

Sorry to put it out there, but I think it needed to be. Now take the slugs you bought out with the gun like it is, and see what your groupings are using the red dot. I hope you have a good dentist. Please videotape the excursion.

[Big Bill]

Nice gun! I hope you enjoy it.

Here's a link to some ammo I use:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/100-rds-nobel-sport-12-ga-2-3-4-no-4-buckshot.aspx?a=368798

[Gunfighter123]

My personal take on it is that it's a great STARTING point for a shotgun...whether the brake works or not I don't know, but I can handle the recoil of standard full power 00 buck all day long so it would not be worth the extended length and price markup. The red dot thing is a silly idea to begin with and the fact that you considered it and again defended it proves to everyone you know very little about the subject.



In Sarduy's defence = YOU can handle slugs and buckshot all day -- fine , so can I -- BUT -- it is A FACT that a muzzle brake/porting/compinsator WILL REDUCE RECOIL even for hairy chested men like us.

My fastest time to clear a table of 5 bowling pins is under three and a half seconds , with OO buck and a stock Rem. 1100 --------- with my "unlimited" Rem. 1100 , with Taso red dot optic and custom compinsator -- my best time is around 2.5 seconds for a 5 Pin table.

[Wildyams]

A little off topic.. but my mom has been looking at getting a gun for when she goes up to our lake place by herself. right now its just a travel trailer on a piece of property. Its on the edge of grizzly territory and there are a lot of black bears in the area, so thats the main concern.

The other day i saw a Mossberg 500 Cruiser, which looks just like the roadblocker without the brake. I thought the cruiser would be great for the small space.

Do you guys think that would be a good gun for the scenario? does the muzzle break work very well? (my mom isn't really a gun person and doesn't shoot much, so if it reduced the recoil she would like that)

[Justin]

Sarduy, RandKL and I completely disagree on the utility of pistol-grip only shotguns.

That said, he knows what he's talking about, and his admonishment to remove the red-dot and shoot the shotgun in a position that doesn't involve putting it next to your face is extremely good advice that you'll do well to follow. Otherwise it is quite possible that you will injure yourself.

[chevyforlife21]

why is there a red dot on a pistol you need to shoot from the hip?

[Rshooter]

Well, now you see that standard stock shotgunners are a stuffy lot. You dropped in with a PGO as a new shotgunner so they think you are ignorant. It is just an unfortunate fact that they believe any PGO shotgunner is ignorant. Elitism I guess.

Do lose the Aimpoint. Learn to shoot the gun as Massad Ayoob recommends, as a rifle and pistol shooter you are educated on this man's experience.

[lobo9er]

wildyams

pistol grip shotgun is a bad idea for your mom in my opinion. If shes not a gun person 12 ga. recoil might be a bit much for her also. if you want to get her a shotgun a 20 ga. might be better also a semi auto would also help cut down on some recoil. A pistol caliber rifle might be a good option too. something to think about. Take her to a range see what she likes maybe she will find shooting to be a new hobby.

[Dave McCracken]

It's not elitism, Rshooter, at least on my part.

It's experience.

PGO shotguns work well in the movies, but in the real world they are awkward, hard kicking, inaccurate handguns and a major step back in effectiveness from a standard stocked shotgun.

Anyone disagreeing with that can show up with their PGO and correct me.

I'm not hard to find, but in ten years or so not ONE PGO fan has taken up the gauntlet.

Either you PGO fans have secret ranges someplace where you hone your skills or.....

YOU'RE FULL OF IT!!!

[lobo9er]

folding stock if its the size issue for storage.

[sarduy]

i'm just going to add a stock and see how it works

http://www.marstar.ca/ac-ATI/images/ATI-SPG0100-500px.jpg

[Justin]

Dave, I've seen a guy show up to a match with a PGO shotgun. The results were, to put it charitably, underwhelming.

[ga red clay]

i'm just going to add a stock and see how it works

Thats a great idea. Also, I dont think you are ignorant. I am just assuming from the original post that you haven't used shotguns enough in an array of situations to realize the cons of PGO shotguns over stocked ones. I think once you get that stock, youll understand why PGO are indeed a fun novelty, but maybe not a useful addition for a serious tool.

Also, yams, your mom would be well served by a stock mossy 500. Get her some reduced recoil home defense loads, and she should be fine with it. Or, as others have stated, get her a 20 guage. Both would offer an acceptable first weapon.

[lobo9er]

nice. Besure it allows for easy slide release manipulation. some don't, pick up a mossy in a shop with a factory stock you can see everything is easy to reach. some of the aftermarket stocks bring your hand a little farther back. Have fun shoot'n.

[Dave P]

After a few handful of shells from my mossberg with a pistol grip, it was obvious that I couldn't hit doodly squat with it. So I went to the full stock - much nicer.

And after struggling one night to handle a flashlight and the pump and a peeping tom, it was obvious that a 45 and flashlight is much more manageable for home defense work.

[Rshooter]

Dave I respect your knowledge and experience. I also own a folding stock police with pistol grip and do fire it PGO. I do not get around so I cannot say tell me where to show up but if you get to TN call me. I do not do matches though as my legs are more useless than you believe a PGO is.

[Dave McCracken]

Justin, I'm not surprised.

Has the guy been back with a real shotgun?

R, copy on the legs. A Titanium hip is not as good as original issue but certainly better than what I had.

And, I believe you mistaken rather than a Net Poseur and BS Carver...

[sarduy]

I am just assuming from the original post that you haven't used shotguns enough in an array of situations to realize the cons of PGO shotguns over stocked ones.

you got that right.. :)

[Warhawk83]

DaveP
And after struggling one night to handle a flashlight and the pump and a peeping tom, it was obvious that a 45 and flashlight is much more manageable for home defense work.

They make flashlights that attach to shotguns, just saying.

[Guns and more]

PGO shotguns work well in the movies, but in the real world they are awkward, hard kicking, inaccurate handguns and a major step back in effectiveness from a standard stocked shotgun.

Anyone disagreeing with that can show up with their PGO and correct me.
I'll bet you're a great shot.....at the range.
Somehow, it strikes me as being much different than sneaking through a darkened house at night. My PGO (with the Knoxx grip) is very short, and I won't be aiming at skeet flying by at a distance.
It's actually fun to shoot, from the hip, and recoil is mild.
If I were to do it over, I might get a PGO in .410 for the house.

When I need a shotgun to bring to the skeet club, rest assured, I'll bring a full stock.

[Dave McCracken]

Guns and More, betcha I've seen more combat than thee.

At one time the whole handle was Lt B D McCracken, MD DOC.

Senior Firearms Instructor. HRT, Weapons Squad of the Tactical Unit. During that time, I not only had to shoot folders from the hip, I had to instruct others to do the same.

Hundreds of them.

My opinions are based on knowledge, training and experience.

And before that was Nam.USAF Firefighter....

Since then,maybe 40 past and present members of this BB have seen me shoot.

Talk's cheap. I can walk the walk.

Anyone can have an opinion, but informed opinions are the ones that count.

[lobo9er]

I agree with dave he sounds like he has experience. And its common sense. Theres just no way on gods green earth a "PGO" is going to be better than a full stock except for storage, or blasting away at the range. I'm not saying theres no way they can be effective just saying if theres no comparing them.

[Justin]

Has the guy been back with a real shotgun?

Not that I recall, though he could have attended one of the matches that I missed due to prior engagements.

What's notable is that this particular match is pretty much just a fun match, cowboy targets at fairly close range.

[Guns and more]

Anyone can have an opinion, but informed opinions are the ones that count.
Okay. Thank you for your service.
I have great respect for you.
But I didn't join the Marines, and you're not my D.I.


I listened to your advice and went my own way. I'm too old to be bossed around.
I didn't always listen to the nuns in grade school either.
Maybe someday I'll be in a life and death situation and I'l be saying, "I should have listened to old Dave and bought a stock to make this shotgun bigger."
Or not.

[Dave McCracken]

That's a good point, Justin. Even when it's just fun, folks that know do not break out PGOs.

When reality and fantasy collide, fantasy takes the worst hit.

GAM, I'm not your DI, nor your 4th grade nun teacher.

BTW, nuns are why I describe myself as a "Recovering Catholic".

What I am is a resource of what works in the real world and what doesn't.

Good luck....

[AcceptableUserName]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e209/tobygoodshank/doNotWant.jpg

[Rshooter]

:confused:

[rdrancher]

:)

rd

[SteveCase]

Do yourself a favor replace the barrel or get rid of the brake. also pick up a full stock not just the pistol grip that came with it. trust me you'll be much happier

[sarduy]

a full stock is in the mail... and as for pistol grips or full stocks... they are both fun, the brake is not heavy, and i kinda like it, plus it sound a little better. i'll post some videos at the range next time.

[Al LaVodka]

First, I have to say, that may be the oddest first shotgun I've ever seen -- it would be my last though I can't compliment the basic action more...

I agree a pistol-grip is not to be toyed around with. And I eschewed them. Was a snob. For good reason. They are severely limited. Then I decided my latest project needed to be one. At this particular time, size matters. And for less than $200 I have the following unused Mossberg 500 and accuterments which now, included in the price tag, will have its newly re-blued barrel ported.

Porting, the wrap-around forearm and lighter 1 oz. (vs. 1 1/4 oz.) #4 Buckshot loads (or the plethora of light, reduced recoil, "tactical" loads available today) make pistol-grips VERY useable tools. The focused light attached also give this Distinguished Expert shooter, Training Counselor and Chief Range Safety Officer a warm and fuzzy feeling -- if the target is indoors and/or in range in the bright central beam of the attached red light, it is getting hit when I pull the trigger, period. Don't get me wrong -- I have the original wood and bought a Mossberg SpeedFeed 4-Round synthetic stock from another forum member for the day I may get over this, but today it is my main HD arm.

Al

[highorder]

A MiniMag? Really?

Time for an upgrade!

[sarduy]

i'm going to try it with the buttstock, all i can say is that it's easier to aim, this is going to be a dedicated slug gun, "that's why i use a reddot"

new pics: 01/16/10

http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/43170/2178220090095461090S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2178220090095461090fDvshA)

http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/45694/2750413240095461090S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2750413240095461090srZNOP)

[Joeu20]

I have owned and used various shotguns since I was very young... all for hunting... not meaning I am an expert with shotguns but I have shot a lot of them.

But I saw one of these Roadblockers and had to check it out. I made the purchase and immediately wanted the option to remove the brake before shooting so I could compare. You cannot. It is pinned. When investigating this further I found out the barrel does not meet the 18" requirement and the brake must remain to make the gun legal? I must say I was disappointed.

But after shooting it the very first time.. from the hip and quickly putting three slugs in a 3 inch area at 20 feet .. I am fine with the brake!

[Guns and more]

I've seen a guy show up to a match with a PGO shotgun.
Silly. The wrong tool for the job. Now for H/D, I'm with the P/G crowd.

Sarduy: Be aware that showing a P/G shotgun and asking for advice here is like carrying a torch into a fireworks store. Everyone starts yelling.
Listen to their advice, then make you own decision. There is so much knowledge here that sooner of later, someone will tell you the only way to go is with a blunderbus, or Chinese Boomsplat in 8 ga.
But,
First, don't buy H/D ammo from Wal-Mart, they don't have a selection. Go online to Cabelas or Natchez and look for 12 ga. buckshot. 00 will have 9 pellets about 1/3" and #4 will have about 28 pellets about 1/4". I think either will put a hurt on a criminal.
For general shooting or competition use a shotgun with a stock.

I also have a Mossy 500 P/G without the big thing on the end, and I changed the grip to the Knoxx "breachers grip" which has a hidden spring to reduce felt recoil. It works great.

Shoot it enough to feel comfortable with it, and enjoy.

[Dentite]

When I saw the photo of the pistol grip only shotgun with the red dot...all I could think about was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXY5XxWO_A8

I think you will find it to be MUCH more usefull with the full stock.

Nice collection you have there.

[ThePunisher'sArmory]

I can tell you that red dot you have on there is not going to last too long on a shotgun. Its a Wally world tasco is it not? If so it wont take the recoil.

[shockwave]

After a few handful of shells from my mossberg with a pistol grip, it was obvious that I couldn't hit doodly squat with it. So I went to the full stock - much nicer.

That was my experience with the 500 Cruiser. Did a couple of range sessions PGO, then fitted a folding stock and it was night and day in terms of comfort, accuracy, and options for firing position. I'm glad I tried both but I wouldn't go back. To anybody asking about the pistol grip, the answer is to go ahead and try it out, then fit a stock and compare for yourself.

[oneounceload]

it is A FACT that a muzzle brake/porting/compinsator WILL REDUCE RECOIL even for hairy chested men like us.

Porting does nothing for recoil, the brake will add some weight to help reduce recoil. Recoil is a math calculation based on weight of the gun, velocity of the payload, and the weight of the ejecta. Felt recoil, is HOW you feel it. That's where gas actions come in handy.

To reduce actual recoil, shoot a heavy gun with light loads. Redirecting muzzle blast happens after the recoil has started.

[oldbanjo]

I have a Mossberg w/PG, but I would never put a Red Dot on it, you will get hurt. If you shoot the gun some with 00, without the Red Dot, I think you'll learn that it will hurt you. I have both stock and PG, I like using the PG, I also added a tritium front sight, You can look down and see glow and know where the barrel is pointing in total dark. For my use the brake makes the gun too long.

[oldbanjo]

I enjoy shooting my Mossberg w/PG. I have a stock, but I wanted a shorter shotgun. I did add a tritium front sight, in total dark I can look down and see where the barrel is pointing. The Red Dot WILL get you hurt. From your hip shoot some 00 buck before you try to use the Red Dot. Before I bought this gun I saw a 410 ss Marinier. I wish I had bought it also. If I see another one I will buy it.