Stainless or blued barrel


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chains1240
January 5, 2010, 02:31 PM
Hello all. I have narrowed my rifle choice down to a Savage Model 16FHSS and a 11FHNS. I was wondering what the pros and cons are to one over the other. Would the stainless barrel give me away to a whitetail easier than a blued barrel? Thank you all.

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ArmedBear
January 5, 2010, 02:45 PM
With a blue barrel, you have to be concerned about rust. With a stainless barrel, you don't.

Unless you are getting a highly-polished gun with a figured stock and engraving, I see no reason to get blue. IMO there's no upside to blue, other than the usually lower price. There's no upside to having to worry about rust and scratches on a field gun with a plastic stock.

That's generally speaking. WRT the specific models, go see for yourself, which is more reflective. My latest rifle has a dull stainless barrel. I can't see that spooking anything -- and a polished blue barrel would flash in the sun.

Olympus
January 6, 2010, 10:42 AM
Most stainless barrels and receivers are more of a satin finish than a highly polished finish. I prefer to hunt with a stainless rifle because it's more resistant to scratches and you don't have to worry about rust. In the elements, the stainless really is my personal favorite. Unless the gun you're looking at is highly polished and shiny, you won't have any problems hunting with it. Sometimes even a polished blued rifle will be shinier than a satin finished stainless.

chains1240
January 6, 2010, 12:52 PM
The Savage model 16 information states that it has a "high lustre" stainless barrel. I will have to take another look at one in person to see if it is in fact smooth and shiny.

Clipper
January 6, 2010, 12:55 PM
I usually prefer stainless, especially for small-game guns, since I'd go traipsing through cedar swamps ans such for snowshoe hare, and I'd get snow in the holster, or fall in the creek, or something else that would require immediate attention when I got home. However, traipsing through cedar swamps and such generally resulted in the attitude that I'd rather deal with it tomorrow, ya know? I'm beat, and a stainless gun allows me to toss it in the drawer and clean it later.

However, there are some guns that I have a more emotional aesthetic view of...I bought a Winchester M-70 featherweight (I'd wanted one since boyhood, and thought they were the most beautiful rifles ever), and just couldn't bring myself to get one in stainless, 'cause it just wouldn't have been right to me. Now, if I was to go out and buy a Ruger compact (I wouldn't be able to resist if they made 'em in 1/4 Bob), I'd be wanting it in stainless, if I could get it...

You can always get a cammo slip-over for it.

Uncle Mike
January 6, 2010, 01:11 PM
Between the two, I would get the 16/116 Weather Warrior. I have several of these, and we sell them.
The 'shine' of the stainless barrel Savage is not 'bright', but it is not a super dull sandblasted finish, somewhere in between. The Savages have sanded barrels.

Stainless steel will indeed rust to a certain degree, stainless is 'rust resistant' not rust proof. Generally stainless picks up 'surface rust' as compared to full on pitting type rust as plain steel(un-blued) would.

Wipe the stainless down with oil every now and again and your good. Much more so than a blued barrel.

If your contemplating getting a blued rifle, the Savage 14/114 is much, much better than the 11/111 as far as looks are concerned. The 11/111 is the economy' model so to speak, while the 14/114 is Savages top of the line Walnut and blue model. So if the 'looks' of wood and blue are of concern, then the 14/114 will be your best bet.

If your not into the 'looks' of a walnut and blued rifle, then by all means get the stainless model and enjoy the rust resistance of stainless steel!

Also, the Weather Warrior(16/116) comes with Savages excellent Accustock, which you will love!

As for the 'shine' of stainless giving you away, well, if your close enough for a whitetail to notice the shine and make you out, I should think you might be able to reach out and grab it by the ear and lead it home! lol hehehehe

BTW, that deer will probably 'smell' you way before it sees you!

Olympus
January 6, 2010, 02:25 PM
The resistance of stainless to rust will depend on the amount of carbon in the steel. The more carbon, the easier rust will develop. At least that is what I've always been told.

A simple wipe off with a clean towel is all any of my stainless guns usually see after use. Once a year, I get them out and scrub them and polish them, but other than that, it's a simple wipe down. All of them still look like they did when they were new.

I take real care when cleaning my blued guns. A simple fingerprint of mine on a gun will cause it to start to rust in a matter of days. Other people may be different, but I guess I have a lot of salts and acids in my hands. I make sure that I spray the entire gun with RemOil or something and then wipe it down completely. Then I give the gun a light spraying all over with RemOil and put it away. I learned about my sweat the hard way. I forgot to wipe off the bolt knob of a Remington 700 I used to have. I let it sit for almost a year. Came back and the knob was covered in rust.

chains1240
January 6, 2010, 03:17 PM
Thank you for the great advice and personal experiences. I would be cleaning the rifle after every day of hunting. Soft cloth then a very light rub of oil. My all time favorite combo is laminate and stainless. Unfortunately the Remington Model 7 I saw was a .270 WSM and not .243, 7mm-08, or .308. The Rugers look nice but from what I can tell the triggers are not the best and sometimes accuracy is lacking. No if I could just get off the fence on caliber choices I would be all set. .243, 7mm-08, .308 :banghead:

Wanta B
January 6, 2010, 06:49 PM
May I suggest the .308Win. More variety,more common and bigger hole/energy. Later on if you like get another caliber but for a do more things rifle I would go .308Win.

Go Stainless...I do agree with you on the laminate/stainless.REALY like those.

Uncle Mike
January 6, 2010, 08:47 PM
No if I could just get off the fence on caliber choices I would be all set. .243, 7mm-08, .308

If your going to get a Model 7 Stainless Synthetic, discontinued now, but some are still out there, we sold one last week, get the 7mm-08.

I prefer the 7mm-08 over the 308, but to each his own.

Check out the Savage 16...Accustock, Accutrigger, superb balance and accurate as all git out! Get it in the 7mm-08 and I bet you'll pile deer up like cord wood next year!

chains1240
January 6, 2010, 09:07 PM
"Check out the Savage 16...Accustock, Accutrigger, superb balance and accurate as all git out! Get it in the 7mm-08 and I bet you'll pile deer up like cord wood next year!"
This is probably the gun I am going to choose. And the 7mm-08.

ColeK
January 6, 2010, 09:33 PM
Quote
"Would the stainless barrel give me away to a whitetail easier than a blued barrel?"

Short answer is NO.

flipajig
January 7, 2010, 09:52 AM
Before you settle on a cal look at the balistics. The 7-08 is almost = to the 30-06 the only thing it lacks is energy ft lbs. The 308 cal has more punch than the 284 cal eather will do its part providing that you do your part.

ArmedBear
January 7, 2010, 10:53 AM
I would be cleaning the rifle after every day of hunting.

You shoot a deer at sunset in a light rain. After you haul it out, hang it, gut it, skin it and bag it to cool for the night, you're going to go take your barreled action out of the stock and clean the whole thing, sometime around 1AM?

Yeah, right.:)

That's what stainless guns are for (at least for those of us who can't afford gun bearers:D).

Uncle Mike
January 7, 2010, 11:16 AM
You shoot a deer at sunset in a light rain. After you haul it out, hang it, gut it, skin it and bag it to cool for the night, you're going to go take your barreled action out of the stock and clean the whole thing, sometime around 1AM?

That's what my wife is for!

I'll clean the gun! lol hehehehe



(hope she doesn't read this!)

chains1240
January 7, 2010, 11:27 AM
"you're going to go take your barreled action out of the stock and clean the whole thing, sometime around 1AM?"

Certainly not. Thought I typed soft cloth and a little oil.

ArmedBear
January 7, 2010, 11:31 AM
When I shot my buffalo with a black powder Sharps, it was close to sunset. One of my hunting companions shot one soon afterward. Despite there being several of us and a tractor to do the lifting, it took a LONG time and some HARD work to get the buffalo to the the point that is was ready to hang for the night in a barn.

When I was utterly starved, and finally ready to eat dinner after 10 PM, I asked where my gun was. Another guy smiled and said he'd already cleaned it for me when I was at the barn (black powder is always a "must do it NOW" proposition, even in dry weather). At that moment, he was the greatest person in the universe, in my opinion.:)

Thought I typed soft cloth and a little oil.

How will that help the wet parts inside the stock (and Savages are free-floated, too)?

Uncle Mike
January 7, 2010, 12:35 PM
OH........MY..........GOODNESS!

Wipe er' down if she's wet...just what you can see, not the whole firearm!

I don't think I know, or really want to , anybody that would yank an action out of a stock on a daily basis if hunting in inclement weather!

Talk about having to check zero before the hunt! I bet that's going to torque off the rest of the crew, you blasting several rounds to check your zero at 5AM in the mourning because you just dropped your action back in the stock! lol hehehehe

Look...before hunting season, you prep your equipment for combat, do you not?
Action out of stock, put a heavy coat of your favorite protectant on the entire rifle!
I like to use Butches Paste Wax under the stock line, or on the entire rifle for that matter... it will last forever under the stock, where it's not rubbed on. (here come all the 'I use this' posts...but good, we need ideas, right?)

Once the 'hidden' parts of your rifle are coated with some kind of protection...all's that is needed, is to wipe off the dew drops on the exposed parts.

And IF you have applied a good protectant(wax) you don't even need to wipe it down, shake off the most of it and go eat!

What do you think is happening to your rifle after you have mopped all that rain off of it, I mean you just came into a 75 degree hunting camp from the 14 degree outside....that's right, condensation! everywhere on/in that rifle!

Remove the action after hunting season and do your prep for next year!
So, like many things in life, protection and preparedness is the answer!

ArmedBear
January 7, 2010, 12:49 PM
So, like many things in life, protection and preparedness is the answer!

I agree.

Buying stainless hunting rifle IS "protection and preparedness" -- it just happens when you make your buying decision, not later on.

chains1240
January 7, 2010, 02:32 PM
Thank you for the post about break down cleaning of the firearm at the end of the season. I did not think I was supposed to break it down after every hunt, although I never heard of this I could not take it for granted that it did not have to be done. Stainless it is.

ArmedBear
January 7, 2010, 02:51 PM
Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest you should break down the whole gun after every session -- just that, sometimes you DO need to, and it tends to be at the worst possible times. Murphy doesn't strike when it's convenient.:D

Just had to fully disassemble a rather nice shotgun after slipping on ice and burying it in wet snow. I didn't drop it; I just soaked it inside and out, and into the walnut. That kind of stuff never happens when it's convenient.

dougwx12
January 7, 2010, 07:15 PM
Blued looks nicer to my eyes, but if it's a hunting gun, stainless all the way.

chains1240
January 8, 2010, 06:57 AM
Armed Bear. Thank you for clearing that up. I often find it hard to read into text, much different than talking to a person. I have been fortunate enough to only fall with a firearm once. I found the only hole in a 80 acre field. Didn't drop my rifle, or my coffee :)

ArmedBear
January 8, 2010, 11:22 AM
I found the only hole in a 80 acre field.

LOL

Amazing how that happens!:)

Z-Michigan
January 8, 2010, 12:14 PM
After learning more about the types of stainless used in gun barrels (416 or 410), I treat stainless like blued metal. Either way I use Boeshield T-9 as a protectant. Corrosion-X would be equally good. With the metal protected like that, I don't worry much about corrosion any more. (Note: I'm 1000 miles from saltwater.) Boeshield is an advanced wax formula and I suspect Corrosion-X is also.

Uncle Mike
January 8, 2010, 12:32 PM
I found the only hole in a 80 acre field.

Hehehehehehe! I know what you mean!

chains1240
January 8, 2010, 03:13 PM
I found that hole when there was no snow on the ground. Thought "wonder if that is a fox hole?" Walking to the box blind after a few days of heavy snow fall I fell in the hole. Not toe first ohhhhhhhhhhhh no no. Heal first. Stiffened up my right leg and I fell over like a tree. What are the chances of that happening? To me pretty good.

shootr
January 9, 2010, 12:44 AM
FWIW, I prefer blue steel and have hunted in sleet and rain that on a couple occasions lasted for days while afield. Never had any problems, given reasonable care. Also, the notion that SS is impervious to rust and requires no upkeep is a myth IME.

Readyrod
January 9, 2010, 05:43 AM
I found the only hole in a 80 acre field.
I did that with the tractor once. It was an old drainage system. Damn things are like magnets.

SpryNotI
January 9, 2010, 07:29 AM
I was planning to get a Savage in the Weather Warrior series. As I am very new to all this I am also very confused as to the good, bad or indifferent aspects of getting the rifle with a hinged floor plate, a detachable box or an internal box. I'd appreciate some information/opinions.

If it helps any the rifle will be used for night hunting hogs from a stand in Texas. I'm leaning towards a 7mm-08 although a .308 is also up for consideration.

chains1240
January 9, 2010, 07:45 AM
SprynotI, In my quest for a rifle I also researched the pros and cons of magazines, hinged floor plates, and blind box type. After about three days of reading I came to the conclusion it is personal preference. Blind you load and unload from the top, hinged you can dump your rounds and unload one, magazine is well a magazine. Some magazines do not sit flush. Someone with personal experience can chime in. I only know from what I have read. I have used a Model 110 with a blind mag, a Ruger 10/22 with magazine, and an M-16 with a magazine.

ArmedBear
January 9, 2010, 10:50 AM
Blind magazine is harder to get to, when cleaning. I wouldn't want one for that reason. With a hinged floorplate, you can open up the action from the bottom and the top, which is a lot nicer IMO, especially if you use something like foaming bore cleaner.

A detachable magazine doesn't offer much utility in a centerfire bolt gun IMO, unless you hunt somewhere that requires you to unload a lot when crossing roads, etc. Then it can be nice to have. Otherwise, I see it as needless complexity in a rifle meant to be simple.:)

Hinged floorplates, here. Big rounds are easy to handle by hand. I can certainly see the advantages of a detachable mag with a .22LR or even, perhaps, a .223.

Wanta B
January 9, 2010, 05:23 PM
Generally I find myself on the fence with detachable or floorplate magazines.For game hunting,most definately floorplate.

Uncle Mike
January 9, 2010, 06:56 PM
Blind Magazine....Less costly than other magazine types. Stock is not inletted for bottom metal frame.
Load rounds into magazine one by one through the top of the action, unload the same way via cycling the rounds through the action with the bolt. Adds a level of caution as to safety while unloading rifle.
Magazine difficult to clean, action must be taken out of stock to access magazine.

Hinged Floorplate.....A bit more expensive to manufacture as this design utilizes a bottom metal magazine frame. Stock is inletted for magazine bottom metal. Load rounds into magazine one by one through top of action. Unload by opening hinged floorplate allowing ammunition to 'dump' out of bottom of magazine into your hand, cycle remaining round that is in chamber out of chamber via cycling the bolt.

Detachable Magazine....Most costly to manufacture as this design utilizes both bottom metal magazine frame and the detachable magazines themselves.
Stock is inletted as the hinged floorplate model. Load ammo into detachable magazine itself, while magazine in out of the rifle. Rifle may be topped off with fresh/additional rounds in the same way as the other type of magazines, through the top of action. Unload rifle by dropping loaded detachable magazine out of bottom of receiver into your hand. Cycle remaining round out of chamber via cycling the bolt.

The advantages of detachable magazines are....You can carry a loaded spare mag. with you, making reloads extremely fast. Rounds are not dumped loose, into your sweaty or wet hands during the unloading phase. Quieter to carry, no shells clinking around. As with the hinged floorplate, makes cleaning the action much easier!
Much easier to load/unload rifle when your hands/fingertips are cold! By having an additional spare magazine with you, you have cut your odds by 50% of tossing the hunt do to magazine spring/follower failure.

ArmedBear
January 9, 2010, 07:12 PM
Most costly to manufacture as this design utilizes both bottom metal magazine frame and the detachable magazines themselves.

You really think a Tikka detachable mag costs more to make than a good hinged-floorplate internal magazine?

Uncle Mike
January 9, 2010, 07:31 PM
You really think a Tikka detachable mag costs more to make than a good hinged-floorplate internal magazine?

No, I don't!:D
I was not even thinking of the Tikka when I wrote that...I try not to think of the Tikka any more than necessary!:evil:

Jus kiddin'. I like the Ticking Tikkas!;)

Clipper
January 9, 2010, 09:05 PM
I've never met someone who had a hunt ruined by their magazine...Guess I need to get out more. Even if my mag did freeze up, I'd simply single load and carry on...

Uncle Mike
January 10, 2010, 01:41 AM
Me neither, but.....

cipher
January 10, 2010, 04:05 AM
I've always read, and it makes more sense to me, that stainless barrels last longer between chamberings than carbon steel ones.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making/details_of_accuracy.htm

That's a barrel maker's take on it.

SpryNotI
January 10, 2010, 08:30 AM
Thanks guys, I appreciate the lesson on hinged floor plates and internal/external mags. I've settled on the Savage Arms Weather Warrior 16FCSS in 7mm-08 Rem with detachable box. (I was a little surprized that more of the Weather Warrior Series did not come in the 7mm-08).

I'm sure I'll have more questions but those will be in a new thread.

Thanks again.

chains1240
January 10, 2010, 08:58 AM
Savage Weather Warrior 16FHSS with hinged floor plate does come in 7mm-08 even though it is not listed on their website. I had the LGS look into it for me. I believe the model number is ACU-17964.

Oldcoyote
January 11, 2010, 05:02 PM
Corrosion-X is good stuff. It protected my blued steel .375 while hunting in coastal Alaska. The guides all had stainless steel rifles and I would too if hunting there often. The saltwater is very unkind.

Uncle Mike
January 11, 2010, 07:41 PM
So you got the 7mm-08 Savage 16...

Word.....

Savage has switched their barrels for the 7mm-08 from a 1:9.250" twist to a, my eyes are tearing up, to a 1:11.50" twist!

Why Gracie...why!?!?

Anyway, some of our customers are complaining about really slow 140gr loads not shooting for beans! Seems as though if you speed up the bullet it is helping some...I don't really know for sure?

They say the 120gr bullets are doing fine...

I have not delved into this monster as of yet, but plan to....so I cannot offer any substantiated advice other than what some of the clientele have said.

I hope it's just knee jerk bitchin' due to the twist switch, but......who knows!

chains1240
January 12, 2010, 06:29 AM
Uncle mike, I have not purchased one yet. And if the twist of the barrel has been changed and adversely affects the 140 grain bullet I may have to rething my rifle or caliber choice.

Uncle Mike
January 12, 2010, 11:39 AM
If you investigate, some of the bench guys use a 1:11.50" twist with the 7mm-08.

I have not shot one of the new slower twist Savages' yet, but I'm sure I'll be setting up one in the near future for a customer, so I'll let you know.

Do some research on it, say, over at 6mmbr.com site.

We had a guy buy one of the new ones, he says that the slower twist did "just as good as my older gun", so...
I would definitely look into it with some research before abandoning the caliber...or Remington is using the 1:9.250" twist in the 7mm-08.

chains1240
January 12, 2010, 08:22 PM
Uncle Mike, I see now on Savage's web site they show the 7mm-08 with the slower twist. I will have to check into this further. If it does cause performance problems maybe I will still get the weather warrior but in .308. I like the Remington SPS stainless but I have heard some not so good things about the fit and finish. Or so I recall.

Uncle Mike
January 13, 2010, 01:24 AM
Yeah, I'm going to look into the whole 1:11.5" thing.;)

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