small pictorial report from ARMS-2003 expo, Moscow, Russia


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max popenker
November 13, 2003, 03:46 AM
hello

just back from that expo.

here's some images and my comments: http://world.guns.ru/arms2003/arms03-e.htm

enjoy

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Trempel
November 13, 2003, 04:25 AM
That SVU-AS looks interesting. What are those revolvers that are on the same table with the rifle? They sure do look UGLY.

Sergeant Bob
November 13, 2003, 07:58 AM
Wow! IZHMASH heaven! That Saiga-12 looks pretty sweet (as well as the rest).
Did they have any RPK's or VEPR's there?

El Tejon
November 13, 2003, 08:32 AM
Otleechna, spasiba bolshoi.

The 100 series would sell like hotcakes here. If only . . .

OEF_VET
November 13, 2003, 08:38 AM
Those revolving shotguns ain't too pretty either. Kind of look like a .38 on steroids. Of course, I'm not saying I would turn one down if someone offered to give it to me.

Thanks for the pics Max.

Frank

Master Blaster
November 13, 2003, 09:01 AM
Interesting information thank you.

I did notice that it seems the tank like Steel magazines we like here in the us for our AKs are antiques???????

It appears that every semi auto rifle I saw has a PLASTIC magazine.

Have the Russians gone to plastic for all of their assault weapons?????

I wish they made some old fashioned steel magazines for my saiga .308, like perhaps a 10 rounder in steel.

Joe Demko
November 13, 2003, 09:20 AM
Those revolving long guns were kind of interesting. What reason, if you know, did they have for designing something like that? Is it an attempt to get around detachable magazine laws in the target market?

max popenker
November 13, 2003, 09:45 AM
2 Master Blaster
IIRC, the plastic AK-47 mags are around since 1970s, if not late 1960s. up until late 1980s these were of red-brown plastic; late production are black plastic; both versions are somewhat lighter, more comfortable to hold (no rib at the rear), easier to operate on cold, especially if w/o gloves; and strong enough to pass Soviet Army tests and soldiers =)

2 Golgo-13
i dunno; the detachable mags are OK here; and cylinder capacity is only 5 rounds. I still can't see any idea behind this, especially in their tacti-kal 12 ga revolver...

Skunkabilly
November 13, 2003, 10:24 AM
Max, what is the state of the right to keep and bear arms in Russia?

QuarterBoreGunner
November 13, 2003, 12:33 PM
Max- was that expo open to the general public or limited to industry people?

Good pictures; interesting design goals for some of those firearms. A double barreled grenade laucher for 'anti-diver' applications? Wow.

marvl
November 13, 2003, 12:35 PM
http://world.guns.ru/arms2003/B120025.JPG

Is that a... bayonet???? :cool:

mephisto
November 13, 2003, 02:04 PM
Two things
1. it does look like a blade....i will take it!
2.ummmmm....Raaammmiiii......

geekWithA.45
November 13, 2003, 02:30 PM
http://world.guns.ru/arms2003/B120025.JPG Is that a... bayonet????

HOWLING LAUGHTER

Master Blaster
November 13, 2003, 02:39 PM
ITs a Swiss Army pistol, it also has sissors, a corkscrew, and nose picking tweezers.

When you use the nose picking tweezers, make sure you keep your finger off the trigger:rolleyes: :neener:

Thanks Max, I stii like the steel ones better, I guess I'm just old fashioned though.

Zundfolge
November 13, 2003, 02:50 PM
Okay, its kinda ugly but I want one!

A truly monster. A revolving "combat" shotgun in 12 gauge from TSKIB SOO
http://world.guns.ru/arms2003/pb120046.jpg

Trempel
November 13, 2003, 03:01 PM
"Max, what is the state of the right to keep and bear arms in Russia?"

I'm not Max, but I'll try to answer to the best of my memory. The state of RKBA in Russia is crappy at best. For long guns, you have to jump through hoops and pay a lot of money to get a license for a smoothbore shotgun. Only after five years of owning a smothbore, you can apply for a license for a rifled long gun. More hoops, even more money. As far as I know, there're no limitations on mag capaciites, pistol grips or other cosmetic features. I don't know if you have to get a license for each weapon, or if once you have it you can purchase all you want. Handguns are illegal, period. If you own firearms, your property could be searched at any time to insure compliance with storage laws. Of course none of this applies to people with enough money for bribes. As is always the case in a top-heavy, corrupt government, money will buy you exemptions for just about anything.
From what I hear, Russia is moving in a positive direction. Their Parliament is mulling over the law which would allow private citizens to own handguns. The downside is that all of these are privileges and not rights. There's no amendment in the Russian Constitution like the 2nd Amendment here. The govt. gives it to you, and they can just as easily take it away. Then again, our own presidents, representatives, judges have wiped their asses with the Constitution, so we're really not so different.

Gabe
November 13, 2003, 03:29 PM
The UMAREX pistol looks like a copy of the Walther P99, is this a joint project like the Smith & Wesson 99?

Justin
November 13, 2003, 03:53 PM
Hi Max!

Thanks for the pics, there's some very interesting stuff there. I don't know if the revolving-cylinder long-guns have any advantages over more traditional designs, but they sure do look cool.

Did you get a chance to talk to the people who had the CZ RAMI on display? Is there any news on the development on CZ's subcompact?

Very cool all around. Thanks for sharing.:cool:

Glock Glockler
November 13, 2003, 06:18 PM
That new Steyr is uber-cool, I wonder if they'll be making factory night sights for it.

I'd also like some of those AKs, regular and shotgun, but I think we need to get rid of some stupid laws first.

max popenker
November 14, 2003, 01:26 AM
Ok, folks, here we go.

As about CZ RAMI. My boss, the chief editor of local russian guns mag was in Czech republic about a month ago, participating at press shootout at CZ. He praized RAMI for compactness and quite good accuracy (for such small size). On the other hand, he said that the sound from such barrel is too loud even in hearing prootection. "Just shoot it once in a small room and you'll be deaf for month, if not for life", that's what he said. OTOH, it is a last resort gun, and it's better to be deaf than to be dead.

those revolving shotties... i dunno, i just see'em as a plain stupid.

gun laws in Russia... as described above by Trempel, and i'll be out for my first license later this year (i finally got my wife to accept that firearm in the house is... possible. it wasn't that easy)

that bayonet under the Steyr M9 is my Swiss Army tactical Viktorinox, which rides with me for last 6 or 7 years. And i truly love that Steyr, it fits my hand much better than Glock, and looks better =)

The Walther-alike "rubber" gun is made by UMAREX Group, which also owns the Carl Walther GmbH, but pistol looks more like P22, because it has external hammer.

and yes, the exhibition was open for anyone able to pay 100 roubles (about $3.3), but the press tag helped somewhat to get those men at stands talking.

and, btw, some more news: the Tula Ammo plant (TCW, aka Wolf) began to made steel-cased ammo with geryish polymer coating instead of the old green laquer; maybe this time it will work better in those food-sensitive AR15's and other such rifles ;)

Skunkabilly
November 14, 2003, 01:33 AM
Is it possible to get the AK-74 type rifles (short of joining the Army)?

Thanks for contributing Max :) Stay safe

Beetle Bailey
November 14, 2003, 01:48 AM
Thanks for all the great pictures, Max. Next we want to here about you testing them out :D .

max popenker
November 14, 2003, 03:54 AM
Is it possible to get the AK-74 type rifles (short of joining the Army)?

there's all the Saiga and Vepr stuff, in 7.62x39, 5.6x39 and 5.56x45. Of cause, mags are limited to 10 and no full auto; but you can have the 7.62mm Saiga carbine with standard AK-type pistol grip and stock, if you like it. There's also OP-SKS (a SKS less bayonet mount), as well as KO-44 (Mosin M44 carbine less bayonet) and KO-91/30 and KO-98 (war trophy Kar.98K in original 7.92mm or rebatrreled to .308win)

NRA Instructor
November 14, 2003, 09:16 AM
Max, thank you for taking the time to give us an opportunity to view firearms that we never get a chance to see here in the US.

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