.223 Noise etc. in 16" vs 20" Bores


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sprocket3
January 6, 2010, 03:11 PM
I'm trying to figure out a new upper for my AR15 to use for hunting and move away from the 24" Varmint Bull Barrel that puts the gun at 10pounds dry. I don't mind taking a couple shots with the long barrel and no hearing protection but not sure if it's going to be the same with a 16.

Is there a big difference in noise going from the longer barrels down to a 16"?

I thought to compromise and get something in a light barrel 20" but i'm concerned it will not be very accurate since it's a long skinny tube! Any ideas on this would help. Can I get 1 MOA out of the 20" featherweight bores?

Heat build up is not an issue. Just need a couple tight shots a day. Hunting Coyotes mainly.

Thanks in advance.

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HGUNHNTR
January 6, 2010, 07:46 PM
Bbl length is not going to affect accuracy at all. I use a 16" lightweight DTI Upper for prairie dogs. With Hornady 50gr vmax it will keep 5 rounds at 1 moa.

BTW its D$%m loud.

Shadow Man
January 6, 2010, 07:49 PM
The shorter the barrel, the louder it will get.

And HGUNHNTR is correct: the shorter length will not effect accuracy one bit. Then again, neither will a light profile 20". One plus to the 20" is an increase in velocity. Personally, I prefer my AR's with 20" barrels.

sprocket3
January 6, 2010, 10:43 PM
I think a 20 would be about perfect but i'm not seeing very many options out there with light barrels. Most seem to have a bull or semi-heavy profile. I guess i'm looking for exactly one thing though.

20" Light Barrel
Flat Top
No front sights
Plastic or some other light hand guard.

People talk about the Carbon 15 but it's only made with a 16 barrel. Seems like i'm stuck buying parts and going custom.

otrman
January 6, 2010, 11:25 PM
Stay away from the Carbon 15. If you run it hard you can melt the upper. Ask me how I know.

Floppy_D
January 6, 2010, 11:32 PM
Heat build up is not an issue. Just need a couple tight shots a day.
As the others have said, you should have no problems. If the only weight you are looking to save comes from a lighter barrel, I think you are better served with a good sling. What are you using for a sling now?

Z-Michigan
January 6, 2010, 11:34 PM
16's are very loud. 20's slightly less loud but still loud. The presence of a muzzle device makes a big difference. Brakes are painfully loud, flash hiders somewhat less loud, and plain muzzles probably best. There is a "Levang liner compensator" and Noveske's flaming pig compensator that each are supposed to reduce the amount of noise to the shooter, without being treated as sound suppressors for NFA purposes. The Noveske I've heard several times on a 16" .223 and I think it has some benefit, though it is plenty loud if you're off to the side. It also makes a somewhat deeper note than other devices.

On the whole, though, I would recommend one of the various types of hearing protection that cuts out gunfire while not reducing ordinary sound much. Either the passive valve-type earplugs, or the active electronic headphones.

Shadow Man
January 6, 2010, 11:38 PM
Even a sound moderator would be a good route, although I am not sure if they qualify as "sound suppressors" to the NFA. Anything that drops the DB's to a more manageable level is a good idea, all around. Europe has figured this out, why haven't we?

Z-Michigan
January 7, 2010, 12:12 AM
Here's the Noveske that I was talking about:

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=kx3556p&cat=11&page=1&search=&since=&status=

Here's the Levang (from DPMS):

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=829&cat=1687

The Levang gets good reviews on MidwayUSA, and that's all I know about it. The Noveske I've seen in person. Either one is not much quieter to the shooter than a plain muzzle, in my experience.

Avenger29
January 7, 2010, 12:25 AM
Yes, sound "moderators" count as suppressors.

Sprocket, you need to wear earpro when shooting, or you are damaging your hearing permanently. Period. Get some type of electronic earpro that will still allow you to hear around you.

Shadow Man
January 7, 2010, 12:31 AM
Yes, sound "moderators" count as suppressors.

Too bad. They're still a fantastic option, and worth the price.

husker
January 7, 2010, 01:31 AM
"The shorter the barrel, the louder it will get." amen to that.
my little Mohawk 600 in 5.56 has one very Loud & high pitched CRACK to it
nothing at all like the mini 14 or colt sporter or any of my other guns for that matter

sprocket3
January 7, 2010, 01:33 AM
Thanks for all the info guys. That's too bad the moderators count as a suppressor. I use ear plugs when I know i'm going to be shooting very much (varmints and target) and try to be good about it. The thing is I want to use it for coyote and other hunting. I can hunt 10 hours hard and not fire a single shot on a bad day. Those plugs drive me nuts after 45 minutes. I think i would rather use the 24 inch barrel than wear plugs , or just stay home.

I'll check out the options though. Any thoughts on a good 20" souce.

husker
January 7, 2010, 01:39 AM
i dont hunt dogs with ear plugs Now punching paper thats different

Avenger29
January 7, 2010, 01:40 AM
I think i would rather use the 24 inch barrel than wear plugs

You are still damaging your hearing with every shot. Eventually your hearing will degrade to the point where you'll need artificial aids.

Yes, I know, the plugs are annoying. So look at a set of lightweight electronic earmuffs that won't drive you as crazy. Yes, everything will have some amount of discomfort, but tinnitus and having to get hearing aids will be even worse.

JohnKSa
January 7, 2010, 02:17 AM
Those plugs drive me nuts after 45 minutes. I think i would rather use the 24 inch barrel than wear plugs , or just stay home.Short term strategy.

I'd look into finding more comfortable hearing protection. You keep shooting without it you're eventually going to have to wear something in your ears ALL the time or deal with not being able to hear.

Here's my suggestion:

Go and check out the price for a set of decent hearing aids.

Now go look at hearing protection equipment with that cost in mind. My guess is that it will get a LOT easier for you to spring for some comfortable hearing protection once you realize how much money you'll be saving down the road by not having to buy hearing aids.

Awhile back I bought a nice set of electronic muffs and put a set of the gel pads on them. They cost me a pretty penny, but I can wear them for hours without discomfort.

[Pb]
January 7, 2010, 04:15 AM
Look for hearing protection that can be employed very quickly. The earplugs with the hard plastic prong inside can be equipped in a couple seconds and they fit around your neck.

sprocket3
January 7, 2010, 02:03 PM
"The earplugs with the hard plastic prong inside can be equipped in a couple seconds and they fit around your neck."

That should work fine when i'm hunting turtles! I was hunting coyotes though and didn't seem to have any extra seconds to spare.

Guvnor
January 7, 2010, 03:04 PM
The other day I was in an small indoor range and the guy in the port next to mine had a 16" barrel AR with flash hider. The blast was so intense that I had to put down my gun and walk away from the port whenever he started shooting. Probably wont be as bad outdoors, and minus the flash hider, but id still expect it to be pretty loud out of such a short barrel.

Avenger29
January 7, 2010, 03:13 PM
The other day I was in an small indoor range and the guy in the port next to mine had a 16" barrel AR with flash hider. The blast was so intense that I had to put down my gun and walk away from the port whenever he started shooting. Probably wont be as bad outdoors, and minus the flash hider, but id still expect it to be pretty loud out of such a short barrel.

The .223 has a bit of a crack to it, you will still feel it standing next to a shooter at an outside range.

That should work fine when i'm hunting turtles! I was hunting coyotes though and didn't seem to have any extra seconds to spare.

http://graphics.samsclub.com/images/products/0089518000211_LG.jpg You're going to end up needing these...

$60 gets you a pair of these and you can still hear, protect your hearing, and have more comfort than plugs.

http://www.overstock.com/Sports-Toys/Howard-Leight-Impact-Sport-Electronic-Earmuffs/3131663/product.html?cid=123620&fp=F&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=11258956

sprocket3
January 7, 2010, 07:33 PM
I would like to see actual data regarding hearing loss or damage. I would think there have been actual studies done on this.

Are there members on this board that have hearing damage from hunting? I'm not talking about shooting 50 rounds a day at varmints. I'm talking about a few rounds a month at "big" game.

Avenger29
January 7, 2010, 10:49 PM
Are there members on this board that have hearing damage from hunting? I'm not talking about shooting 50 rounds a day at varmints. I'm talking about a few rounds a month at "big" game.

Yes, there are members on this board who have hearing damage from hunting. Every once in a while a thread on the subject of hearing loss pops up. Invariably, it is emphasized that every shot does damage. Also, you may want to look at OSHA's website.

But, hey, go ahead and continue shooting just a few rounds a month without that bothersome hearing protection. You're the only one that has to deal with the consequences.

Wahoo95
January 7, 2010, 11:16 PM
You should look into the Surefire Earplugs. They're very comfortable and you cold leave them in while shooting, yet they offer some sound reduction when you need to take a shot.

http://www.surefire.com/EP3-Sonic-Defenders

hoodfu
January 7, 2010, 11:19 PM
I looked up the OSHA stuff a while back. The average rifle shot is around 140db, with jet engines being around 113db. For police officers, they say that anything more than a single shot per day violates OSHA regulations. If you're lucky, you'll just be hard of hearing. A few people have mentioned that they have near constant ringing in their ears. When I go to the range at this point, I always wear earplugs, and then 33db pro-ears on top of that.

Tirod
January 7, 2010, 11:30 PM
After 30+ years of shooting, most of the time with plugs or muffs, I still have a midrange hearing loss, ringing in both ears, and can't hear a customer mumble his phone number less than three feet away if anyone else is talking.

Why? A little 8mm recreational shooting - just a few rounds, half a dozen 4th of July's shooting bottle rockets at each other, deer hunting - less than a dozen rounds in the field - and the last kicker, a whole morning blowing up less than lethal pyrotechnics and blasting rubber bullets at targets. Always Wear Hearing Protection. Always use it.

A cheap test for your hearing? Find the high pitched ring tone teenagers download that older adults can't hear. Can you hear it? If not, you've already moved one significant step into deafness.

The end game is being able to still hear the coyotes howl when you're too old to hunt them. Anything less is a prison of silence.

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