[GhostCat]

This article out of a Liverpool , U.K. newspaper
illustrates the futility of a gun ban. Criminals are
not having much trouble at all getting guns. The
subjects of the article are well above their "learning
curve" and are making all kinds of guns and their own
ammo.

The sad unspoken part of the story is law abiding
citizens have given up their rights to defend
themselves and are prey waiting to be victimized.

Gun Ban NOT working (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/content_objectid=13616737_method=full_siteid=50061_headline=-Gun-brothers-jailed-name_page.html)



GhostCat

[tyme]

Still, terrible reporting.
Among the cache of guns were a homemade silencer and every tool needed to create a gun from an imitation weapon.
Nice of the reporter to blur the line between tools and guns. So a silencer is a gun, and so are tools used to make guns? I'm confused. How do you make a gun with a gun?

[Pilgrim]

The court heard a further charge of selling firearms would be left to lie on file.
Does this mean that when they get out if they screw up again the charges can be reinstated?
The sad unspoken part of the story is law abiding citizens have given up their rights to defend themselves and are prey waiting to be victimized.
They were the targets of the ban in the first place.

Pilgrim

[Standing Wolf]

The sad unspoken part of the story is law abiding citizens have given up their rights to defend themselves and are prey waiting to be victimized.

It may be unspoken in England, but it's been noticed here.

[agricola]

sigh

Yet another "isnt it terrible that the British arent Americans" thread, evidenced by criminals being put away for something wholly unrelated to the gun ban. Surely if they are going to this extent to create guns it must show that firearms are not that common in the UK? If they were, they could just go out and buy some.

As it happens, Liverpool is at the moment in the middle of a gang dispute because that cities "Mr. Big" Curtis Warren is currently a guest of the Dutch (and will be for the next ten years), and all the smaller fish are scrambling to try and fill the gap. Last month there was a small car bomb attack linked to this, and every week or so there is a shooting (usually someones door).

[fallingblock]

"Surely if they are going to this extent to create guns it must show that firearms are not that common in the UK? If they were, they could just go out and buy some."
************************************************************

It's a perfect demonstration of the fact that 'banning' firearms does not remove them from the criminal element. Why, they even become quite a saleable commodity if you can make them.:D

The same misguided policy is being emplaced here in Australia as well....with much the same result:mad: .

[Stevie-Ray]

Is anbody, even 1 person on this board, surprised by this?








Thought not.

[Newton]

Well firstly, I remember reading recently that gun related crime is starting to drop in Britain.

The British also enjoy a firearms related murder rate that is countless orders of magnitude lower than that in the US.

Finally, if criminals are having to resort to making zip guns, it surely shows how difficult it is to obtain weapons in the UK. This is supported by the fact that farmhouses (where a shotgun can always be found) are the most frequently burgled type of residence per capita in the UK.

That's right, the homes with guns are burgled THE MOST.

What were the numbers, gun deaths in the UK 68, gun deaths in the US 12,000 per year, someone help me out on this.

It would be fascinating if we could flood Britain with handguns, just to watch the counter-productive effects on what is, a very violent culture.

[Sean Smith]

The also "enjoy" an overall crime rate that is worse than that of the United States, including violent crime.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/12/01/ncrime01.xml

The fact that the US localities with the highest crime rates (especially violent and firearm-related crime) are also the ones with the most restrictive gun laws should also be noted.

US crime rates have also been in steady decline over the last several years. Crime has dropped 24.9% from 1993 to 2002.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/pdf/2sectiontwo.pdf

Kind of hard to reconcile those facts with a correlation between tough gun laws and reduced crime, eh?

[agricola]

er.....

we have had this discussion a million times, but we have higher numbers of low-level assaults and strongarm robberies than you, you have more rapes, serious assaults, murders and armed robberies than us.