Educate Me on the AK-47


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tc54
January 7, 2010, 05:01 PM
I'm wanting an AK.

Nothing fancy, just a "plain jane" version that will be "dependable". All I'll do with this gun is step outside my back door and blow some holes in the field every now and then. I won't be mounting scope/light/etc. and I'm not wanting one with a folding stock.

I'm looking for wood stock and forearm if possible and capable of accepting the 30 rd mag.

Used would be OK, or even reconditioned. I just want the thing to fire every time.

What do you suggest I look for?
Where might I find the model/version you suggest?
What price can I expect to pay?

Thanks.

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WardenWolf
January 7, 2010, 05:05 PM
Get a WASR 10/63 from aimsurplus.com. They can be had for around $400 or less in a variety of configurations. They'll fit your bill just perfectly.

ccsniper
January 7, 2010, 05:06 PM
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_GP-WASR_10_63_Underfolding_7.62x39_Rifle.html

this seems to fit your bill. I am not a proponent of WASR's but they do shoot and they do function just fine.

Dang it mike the wolf, beat me by a minute

highorder
January 7, 2010, 05:09 PM
I've never fired an underfolder AK. How stable is the stock compared to a fixed model?

ccsniper
January 7, 2010, 05:16 PM
I prefer the fixed stock to the underfolder. But the under folder is very stable and work pretty well, just get some no slip grip for tennis rackets and wrap around the part that makes contact with your face. It just makes it feel more comfortable.

WardenWolf
January 7, 2010, 05:20 PM
I just bought an underfolder. I haven't fired it yet (ammo comes in tomorrow), but it's rock solid and very comfortable. I like it a lot. Stability is not an issue.

devildog32713
January 7, 2010, 05:29 PM
what caliber? 7.62x39 is basic, but you can get them in .223, or 5.45x39, or is that the AK-74, I really dont remember.

highorder
January 7, 2010, 05:31 PM
I'd have a hard time not buying a 7.62x39, but that's just the purist in me. :) Perhaps the economist as well, considering the cost of ammo these days.

Motodeficient
January 7, 2010, 06:07 PM
Take a look at classicarms.com

Good prices, good selection, good ammo prices too.

stubbicatt
January 7, 2010, 07:23 PM
The adage that quality is remembered after price is forgotten is a good one, but I'm not so sure it applies to AKs. By that I mean, higher price does not necessarily mean a better rifle. If you can find a good Yugo with the fixed stock I think you will be happy. It is accurate, has night sights, reliable, etc. The RPK trunnion and the thicker sheet metal receiver combine to give you a great rifle. Too, I think the sights are a tad better than others I've shot.

YMMV.

1KPerDay
January 7, 2010, 07:28 PM
I'd have a hard time not buying a 7.62x39, but that's just the purist in me. Perhaps the economist as well, considering the cost of ammo these days. 5.45's a lot cheaper than 7.62X39 nowadays...

WoofersInc
January 7, 2010, 07:38 PM
Take a look at Henderson Defense. They have the WASR's for about the same price as AIM. However HDI goes through all of the guns they get and check everything out. If you buy from them they certify that the gun will work and not have any of the issues WASR's are know for like canted sights etc.

http://shop.hendersondefense.biz/main.sc

smince
January 7, 2010, 08:06 PM
I just bought an underfolder. I haven't fired it yet (ammo comes in tomorrow), but it's rock solid and very comfortable. I like it a lot. Stability is not an issue.The underfolders will eventually wear and loosen up.

briansmithwins
January 7, 2010, 09:35 PM
Underfolders look kool.

They do have a tendency to get wobbly and the cheek weld sucks. I'd go with a solid stock or the AK-100 type left side folder.

5.45 AKs are very inexpensive and ammo is running around $158 per case of 1080. Mags are cheap too.

http://gun-deals.com/index.php?dealtype=arms&category=1&subcat=5

http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=5.45x39

BSW

zoom6zoom
January 7, 2010, 10:05 PM
The Romy with all the accessories at Classic for 389 is tough to beat, and they are great folks to deal with.

Hammerhead6814
January 7, 2010, 10:11 PM
Cheapest AK's online are from Classicarms.us. Cheapest AK's when found would be Saiga's. But you'll spend another $100 converting them.

RockyMtnTactical
January 7, 2010, 10:29 PM
I've never fired an underfolder AK. How stable is the stock compared to a fixed model?

I don't like the way the underfolder feels, but they do look cool. I much prefer the fixed stocks and side folding stocks.

Gunfighter123
January 8, 2010, 12:22 AM
Get a WASR 10/63 from aimsurplus.com. They can be had for around $400 or less in a variety of configurations. They'll fit your bill just perfectly.

I agree with Mike --- for what you want one for , the WASR 10/63 will be fine.

Patriotme
January 8, 2010, 02:18 AM
what caliber? 7.62x39 is basic, but you can get them in .223, or 5.45x39, or is that the AK-74, I really dont remember.
Are there any American companies that make 5.45x39mm? Bill Clinton banned Norinco from selling cheap ammo during his term. There's no reason to trust Obama not to do the same to Russian companies. There is plenty of American companies selling 5.56. There are some American companies selling 7.62x39mm. The 5.45 caliber seems like a fun round but I believe you are largely relying on that boat coming in from Russia when buying ammo.
Just something to think about.

Shadow Man
January 8, 2010, 02:30 AM
I've never fired an underfolder AK. How stable is the stock compared to a fixed model?

Stability is usually good at first, but can degrade over time. However, stability is not the real concern with an underfolder stock on an AK. Proper cheek weld is. A full stock provides that, and underfolder does not. Not a terribly big issue if you are fully versed in the operation of an AK but one that deserves consideration. If you have an underfolder, I'd have an easily installed full stock on hand, just in case.

Onesiphorus
January 8, 2010, 07:05 AM
Saiga!

rd2007
January 8, 2010, 02:23 PM
what part of an UF touches your face? Mine goes on the inside of my shoulder and slightly down by my armpit/bicep region, but nothing touches the face. I wouldn't want any part of the stock touching my face either.
and mine is from 1986 and the UF stock is still rock solid. Maybe I got lucky and got a real good one or something.

Sam1911
January 8, 2010, 02:39 PM
what part of an UF touches your face? Mine goes on the inside of my shoulder and slightly down by my armpit/bicep region, but nothing touches the face. I wouldn't want any part of the stock touching my face either.

Ahhh, yes. That's what folks are discribing as "cheek weld" -- meaning the solid connection of your cheek firmly against the stock of a long-arm which allows your eye to align quickly and repeatably with the rear sight. Without a good cheek weld, you're forced to hold your head "floating" somewhere above the stock, trying to keep your eye stable on the sight axis.

Some rifles -- AR-15s are a good example -- often favor the use of a "chin weld" instead of a "cheek weld" because their sight axis is quite a bit higher than the comb of the stock. Still, the shooter strives to have a very repeatable connection point to stabilized his head against the stock.

From a decent site covering basic shooting techniques:

Improper cheek weld: Ideally your cheek should ‘weld’ to the gun-stock in exactly the same place each time you bring the sights up. This can be practiced at home with an empty gun. Hold the weapon at ready. Aim at a spot on the wall our out a window etc. (a small spot!) Concentrate on aiming correctly. Then lower the weapon. Now close you eyes and bring the weapon back up again. Visualize aiming at the exact same place as before. Now open your eyes and critique yourself. If you do this every day, you will notice a great improvement next time you shoot at the range.


Improper, poor, insufficient, and/or difficult cheek weld is a large contributing factor to the AKs' reputation for poor accuracy. Many of the underfolders, and especially the wire-style side folders like on a Tantal, are not comfortable or easy to use with good marksmanship practices. Folks used to a more ergonomic stock design then find them hard to stabilize, and their accuracy suffers. Then you get to read of how their AK "couldn't hold better than an 8 inch group at 100 yds." or whatever.

Like most other problems in life, make sure you're doing it right before you blame the equipment! ;)

-Sam

DWFan
January 8, 2010, 03:23 PM
The EAA Zastava PAP can be had new for under $350. Wood thumbhole stock and handguard, single-stack 10 round mag. From what I understand, fitting a double-stack mag is just a matter of opening up the mag well. They have a decent reputation on the AK website.

tc54
January 8, 2010, 03:50 PM
Thanks for the responses men. I appreciate it! Have a good one!

iyaoyas98
January 8, 2010, 04:42 PM
............................

rd2007
January 8, 2010, 05:20 PM
hmmm, I'm going to have to check mine out when I get home because I don't remember any part of my chin touching the UF stock. I was simulating it here at work and I put my ear on my shoulder and I think that is the only part resting on anything. I am relatively new at this, but the picture below is of 10 rounds I lit off last week on an 8" Dirtybird target, so accuracy with the AK is not an issue. The others on the edges were .357 rounds from my SP101 that I am still getting used to..

112706

Sam1911
January 8, 2010, 07:48 PM
hmmm, I'm going to have to check mine out when I get home because I don't remember any part of my chin touching the UF stock. I was simulating it here at work and I put my ear on my shoulder and I think that is the only part resting on anything.

That sounds uncomfortable. How do you see the sights? If I held my ear to my shoulder, I wouldn't see anything but the rear of the dust cover out of my right eye. Do you have access to any other rifles, and perhaps some experienced shooters who could help you with your technique?

Some pics always help. You should be doing something like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/OffhandTarget.jpg

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/3755/p1020681yy2.jpg

Notice how his cheek is slightly puffed where he's pressing firmly on the stock? And how his eye is in a straight line with both the rear and front sights? The "comb" (top edge) of the stock helps keep his head position stable and helps him mount the gun (get it up into position) quickly and the same way each time.

-Sam

DMK
January 8, 2010, 08:23 PM
The Romanian and East German sidefolders are very stable and easy to use. Plus you can easily swap back and forth between these and a standard fixed stock with just two screws.

The AK100 type folding stock is probably the best stock for an AK, but they are pretty pricey. Romanian sidefolders go for somewhere between $40-$60 when they pop up here and there. They also make a rubber pad that fits these for launching rifle grenades. AKs generally have little recoil, but it makes the thin metal plate a lot more comfortable in the summertime when wearing just a T-shirt.

http://mysite.verizon.net/dmk0210/myarms/sar1.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/dmk0210/myarms/sar1folded.jpg

nalioth
January 8, 2010, 08:50 PM
They also make a rubber pad that fits these for launching rifle grenades. AKs generally have little recoil, but it makes the thin metal plate a lot more comfortable in the summertime when wearing just a T-shirt. A better reason for the grenade launcher butt pad is that it adds about an inch and a half to the LOP.

These pads fit any military spec AK butt stock.

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