How much would you pay for a 1911?


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GojuBrian
January 8, 2010, 06:58 AM
Seems like a guy can get a 1911 from about $400 for a norinco on upwards past $4000 for a high end 1911.

I know it all comes down to compromise of what you can afford, but some guys just seem to go all out no matter what.

What's your top and bottom dollar?

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19-3Ben
January 8, 2010, 07:34 AM
I feel like the point of diminishing returns is right around $1k. For around $1k, you have really solid choices like the Springfield loaded, and the S&W 1911's. For another $150 or so, you have several choices in Kimber's line up like the CDP, Raptor, and Eclipse Custom II.
For double the cost, you can get an outrageously nice Les Baer or Wilson Combat, but is it twice as nice? Not in my mind.

So right around $1000 give or take ~$150 is where I'd say would be my limit on a 1911.

xXxplosive
January 8, 2010, 08:30 AM
That would depend on what your looking for in a particular pistol......customizing features and work done by which gunsmith.

I've seen 1911's range from $350.00 up to $4,500. :what:

EddieNFL
January 8, 2010, 08:58 AM
Depends on the gun. The least I ever paid was $200 in 1974. The most was considerably more.

earlthegoat2
January 8, 2010, 09:03 AM
First off, where are the 400 dollar Norincos?

For that price point I would go the Springfield Loaded route. Not much enamored with Kimbers. The baseline Loadeds go for around 800 and I spend the rest on ammo.

That said however I do like the lower dollar Les Baers.

MackTwain
January 8, 2010, 09:50 AM
It depends on how much money you have. Even if you have plenty (which I didnt) I just got my first 1911 (Taurus SS $679) its a great gun for the money and It's a keeper. But when I look at the loaded Springfield now I feel the urge to get one.

IMHO...You dont have to spend more the $779 to get a great 1911. I would go the Springfield Loaded ($779) route.

okespe04
January 8, 2010, 10:05 AM
First off, where are the 400 dollar Norincos?

Just picked up my first 1911 for $330 a few days ago. Norinco 1911A1. As for how much I would pay at this point I am very happy with my Nork, but I have been looking at some loaded springfields and am going to start looking into long slides. I could see spending $700 - $1000 or so but for now I am going to enjoy my Nork.


http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l203/brohar03/_1010012.jpg

zstephens13
January 8, 2010, 10:58 AM
I dropped $800 on my Kimber Pro Carry II and I don't even feel a little bit bad about it.

jmorris
January 8, 2010, 11:11 AM
I have them from $349 on up to $3000, yes they are very different from one end to the other.

mcdonl
January 8, 2010, 12:23 PM
jmorris... would you mind going into some of the differences? Or anyone for that matter. I believe they are there, I am just curious what they would be. I hope to have one by mid February and my hopes were that I could make improvements along the way as I am buying a platform as much as I am a pistol

Is this true?

CoRoMo
January 8, 2010, 01:01 PM
Superb checkering isn't something you're going to see on a low end gun, and it is a difference worth money. I don't think it would be an upgrade that I'd put onto a cheap 1911 though.

I'd go with an $800 Springfield, a Colt, or maybe a Kimber and be happy.

jmorris
January 8, 2010, 01:02 PM
Well, starting at the low end is one made in the Philippines. In general poor fitting loose frame to slide fit, incorrect barrel link for proper lock up and low quality parts with many imperfections. Metal was not properly heat treated in many areas. For example the extractor could not be tuned as it bent and set, it had no “spring” to it. Non standard dimensions, a standard replacement extractor had to be modified to fit properly. All of that being said adding another $100 or so in parts (trigger, all the springs, extractor, barrel link and such) and 5-6 hours of smithing (tighten slide to frame, stone areas, weld up and regrind safeties, fix feed ramp and chamfer the barrel) turned it into a reliable pistol (it will feed an empty case now) that is accurate enough for what I use it for.

On the other end of the spectrum is a custom pistol with all of the parts machined from billet to my exact specifications right here in the USA (go to svi.com and look for the “gun builder”). I had mine chambered in both 9mm and 45 acp, gain twist rifled TiN coated barrels, that after many thousands of rounds look unused and both shoot under an inch at 50 yards. The trigger pull is the “glass rod” 1.5# break like that of a fine centerfire rifle. The slide to frame fit feels like the two shouldn’t move when you try to rock it but feels like it’s riding on bearings when you rack it or as one friend said “That feels like wet sex”. I guess you have to handle the pistol to really appreciate it.

Are the differences between the two worth ten times the money? The answer to that largely depends on how much you have and what your expectations are. FWIW neither of the two above were either my first or last 1911 style pistol I acquired.

mcdonl
January 8, 2010, 01:07 PM
I would say my demands and requirements are pretty low. I put holes in paper at the range. I am looking to spend around $500. I am bummed because at the moment there is a colt 1911 for $500 but I am about 4 weeks away from having the money!

coromo... cosmetics mean nothing to me when it comes to firearms. Not to say I don't appreciate a fine looking work of art, it is just that in my economic world it is not a factor. Maybe someday... when my kids pay me back for college.

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 01:24 PM
I have paid between $300 to $1300

Going from a Nork to a Les Baer TRS

mcdonl
January 8, 2010, 01:35 PM
Thanks guys...

Rellascout... do you use your various 1911's for different reasons? It seems that a lot of 1911 owners become collectors. As your tag line indicates, they are just tools and I cannot think of anyone who owns a $50 black and decker circular saw, and a few others ending with a $200 dewalt circular saw.

surjimmy
January 8, 2010, 01:43 PM
I used to make fun of a friend of mine for buying high end 1911's. I would say I can buy 4 guns for what you paid for that. He would just smile and say you sure can. I have owned sub $500 Rock Island Tactical to now Les Baer's and some other custom 1911's done by masters. It just like taking a trip, you can get across country in a Ford Pinto or a Royals Royce the end results are the same but the ride was a hole lot different.That was my bit of wisdom for the day:D Under $1000 I would go with a Springfield Loaded around $800 over $1000, I would get a Les Baer. If you look and don't be in a hurry $1500, and is one of the best weapons I have ever shot. Now before I get blasted by Ed Browns and Wilson's I said LB cause there about $1000 cheaper and I have called LB factory 8 times asking questions and I have talked to Mr. Baer 5 of those times. He was not only very helpful for shot the bull with me 15-20 min each time.

raz-0
January 8, 2010, 02:24 PM
It depends. IMO there really is very little reason to go about the $2600 mark. At that point you can have a gun custom built for you and have it finished pretty nicely. Shipping included depending on location between you and the smith.

As far as off the shelf, pretty much $700-850 is all you need to spend to get something that works. Shopping around that'l get you something functionals from SA, kimber, S&W, dan wesson, SIG, STI, etc. You might have to through a decent extractor into one of them after several thousand rounds, but probably not even the majority.

mcdonl
January 8, 2010, 02:29 PM
As far as off the shelf, pretty much $700-850 is all you need to spend to get something that works.

Thats discouraging.

Clarence
January 8, 2010, 02:41 PM
In my experience with 1911's you are just rolling the dice if you spend less than $1000. As often as not you'll end up with a gun that has some issues. I was extremely disappointed in the last Kimber I bought and I paid over $1000 for it. (It was junk) I would say Les Baer makes the least expensive reliable 1911. You can get into a Les Baer for around $1500. The last one I had was stone cold reliable and very accurate.

If you want a great 1911 you are going to spend at least $1500-$2000 or just a skosh more. Many people are satisfied with $800 - $1000 1911's, many aren't.

mcdonl
January 8, 2010, 02:45 PM
Wow. I am stunned. I think I may buy a glock. They are cheaper and you do not need to get the ultra $1500 model to get one that works everytime.

raz-0
January 8, 2010, 03:07 PM
Best bang for the buck IMO is the STI spartan. About the only things it doesn't have that you might want are an ambi thumb safety and a magwell.

looking around quick, I see them selling for $629.

For exmple, the springfield mil-spec is a perfectly ok 1911. But you will likely want a beavertail grip safety, you will likely have to replace the crap extractor after 2000-3000 rounds, and if you ever want anything nicer than the taller military style sights, you will have to get the slide machined. The grip safety install and sights would also require refinishing.

The only option cheaper than the STI that I know of that falls into the category of having all the features you might want that require machining or refinishing is the firestorm. I see them for $400-480.

rock island armory/ armscor shaves about $100-120 off the SA milspec with all the same issues.

Quack
January 8, 2010, 03:26 PM
Chevy Cobalt to a Bugatti Veyron...it's all about choices and build quality.

my bottom (right now) is a Springfield Loaded Target (but have had RIA's), my top is my TGO-1 or Ed Brown Kobra Carry, with a few in-between

trickyasafox
January 8, 2010, 03:27 PM
1500$ or even a 1000$ to get a reliable 1911 just isn't my experience.

I paid 640 for a NIB stainless Mil-Spec from springfield armory. It ran like a top from day one and has 1000s of rounds through it. The only thing I did until very recently was change the recoil spring every 1500 rounds.

Then I added a new trigger, hammer, sear, etc for no other reason than I wanted to play. The gun ran perfect.

I also just paid 700 for a stainless Colt LW commander, Pre series 80. that gun also runs like a top, but I did have to put 30 bucks into it to get the correct bushing, as the previous owner didn't know the difference between a commander sized bushing and a government sized one . . .

stainless milspecs still go for about 650. expect less for non stainless models. GI models are in the mid 500s. Taurus can be found in the high 500s, though more often they are a low 600 dollar gun- very competitively priced near the mil-spec.

Also Rock Island Armory has a growing following of satisfied owners that spend less or the same as the cost of a new glock and get a reliable 1911 out of the box.

1911s are very easy to clean and maintain. They shoot and point well for many people and have an immense amount of aftermarket support that can let you tune a gun to your hearts content.

They, like all guns, require proper care and lubrication to function properly, and quality mags and ammunition. Quality mags and ammunition does not mean 'ultra expensive' either. Chip McCorm. mags work great in my 1911s, as do surplus GI mags, Springfield factory mags, metalform mags, and others. You don't need wilson 47Ds to get your 1911 to run.

quality ammo doesn't mean high cost either. I run lead through my 1911s for easily 90%+ of their diet.

where people run into issues, in my experience, is not properly lubricating a gun, or running ammunition that just doesn't agree with the gun, or using the cheapest mags available.

Heck I even got some clearance mags from DPMS for less than 5 dollars a pop that run fine in my 2 1911s- They won't feed LSWCs though.

more knowledgeble 1911 shooters and tuners will tell you better than I can that 1911s, because of their popularity, have been pressed into service in a variety of ways outside the original scope of their design. They have performed admirably in these roles- however, along the way some hiccups have come up. Predominately associated with poor magazine design or poor gunsmithing fixes because the proper function of the 1911 was not understood by the user.

I'm not calling out the other posters who have not had good luck with 'budget' 1911s (600 dollars isn't budget in my book! my 1911s are the most expensive guns I own!) but considering the cost of many semi-auto, quality handguns these days, 1911s are very competitively priced, reliable guns for many users. I urge you not to write them off as a viable option for a quality handgun.

mljdeckard
January 8, 2010, 03:36 PM
I've talked about this many times before, and yes, it's an ongoing conundrum.

Remember the scene in "Pulp Fiction" when Uma Thurman orders the five-dollar milkshake, and Travolta flips his lid? "It's just a milkshake, right? There's no Bourbon in it or anything?" Then the waiter btings it to them, and he says; "I want to know what a five-dollar milkshake tastes like." So she lets him try it, he tastes, tastes again, thinks about it, and says something to the effect of; "WOW. That is THE BEST milkshake I have ever tasted. But it ain't worth five dollars."

This is kind of how I feel about the high-end custom guns. Once I went to the rental range at Impact, and I wanted to know what the five-dollar milkshake tastes like, so I rented the Nighthawk, $2,700 price tag. I shot it next to my Kimber Custom II. Traded out magazines, rotated every other one. And it's superb. Those machined aluminum grips feel nice. You can look at them and see that they spent more time on the finish. But for the life of me, I have absolutely no idea what it is supposed to do that my Kimber can't.

Maybe one day when I'm rich I'll give it another look, but as of now, my Kimber is the best handgun I have ever owned, and I have paid more than this for guns in the past. I use it for everything, I would take it to war tomorrow if I were allowed to. I can buy THREE of them for the price of that Nighthawk.

EddieNFL
January 8, 2010, 03:43 PM
Now before I get blasted by Ed Browns and Wilson's I said LB cause there about $1000 cheaper and I have called LB factory 8 times asking questions and I have talked to Mr. Baer 5 of those times. He was not only very helpful for shot the bull with me 15-20 min each time.

Not really. Baer offers "bare-bones" models while Wilson, Brown, Nighthawk, etc. tend to start higher on the ladder (in terms of features). Not a knock on Baer at all. If I had only 1300-1400 to spend, Baer is the only place I would look.

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 03:44 PM
In my experience with 1911's you are just rolling the dice if you spend less than $1000. As often as not you'll end up with a gun that has some issues. I was extremely disappointed in the last Kimber I bought and I paid over $1000 for it. (It was junk) I would say Les Baer makes the least expensive reliable 1911. You can get into a Les Baer for around $1500. The last one I had was stone cold reliable and very accurate.

If you want a great 1911 you are going to spend at least $1500-$2000 or just a skosh more. Many people are satisfied with $800 - $1000 1911's, many aren't.

Absolutely not true. Like I said I have paid from $300 to $1300. Everyone of them have run without major problems. It has nothing to do with how much you pay but what you pay for. I have and never will own a kimber. Cohen ruined that company. He is no longer there and they have improved but there are too many other good guns at the price to mess with them.

Dan Wesson makes about 2500 guns a year. Before their price jump and production changes all of them except the Valor sold for under $1000. Its hard to find a Dan Wesson owner who did not get a good reliable gun. Every Colt I have ever owned ran right out of the box. That includes a CCO, WW1 Repo, 70 series, 80 series, a Combat Commader etc.... I even had a Gen 1 GSR which ran like a top and was a real tack driver.

The only 1911 I have ever had fail right out of the box was a S&W 1911 Pro Series 9mm. It needed its grip safety adjusted. It was not engaging when I shot it with a high grip. S&W took care of it within 3 weeks. Paid shipping both ways and all is good. This is a $1300 MSRP 1911 too. :scrutiny:

In the end there are tons of good 1911s at every price point. What you get when you pay more is better fit and finish. You get better workmanship and better raw parts. They will last longer but we all know most guns will never be shot to the point of failure. Most guns sold in the US will never see 5000 rounds in their lifetime. Yes many will but most will not.

NMGonzo
January 8, 2010, 03:46 PM
I paid 800 for mine.

It's shiny and it goes boom every time.

It became the one I shoot the best with at speed.

Lv4snobrdg
January 8, 2010, 03:49 PM
IMHO: you buy a gun and pay for the brand.

What's in a brand? Well ask Chrysler?

I don't see allot of hyundais and escorts running at Daytona. But I do see them on the commute everyday. So it really depends on the purpose and the rate of use.

If you are going to use it allot you might want to be able to replace it when it breaksdown, like an escort. I have a thing for items made in the U.S.A. So I buy Chrysler/Dodge and Kimber.

$900 to $2000 for a reliable 1911 is my range for any manufacturer but makes 90% of Kimber's line within my range.

NMGonzo
January 8, 2010, 03:51 PM
IMHO: you buy a gun and pay for the brand.

What's in a brand? Well ask Chrysler?

I don't see allot of hyundais and escorts running at Daytona. But I do see them on the commute everyday. So it really depends on the purpose and the rate of use.

If you are going to use it allot you might want to be able to replace it when it breaksdown, like an escort. I have a thing for items made in the U.S.A. So I buy Chrysler/Dodge and Kimber.

$900 to $2000 for a reliable 1911 is my range for any manufacturer but makes 90% of Kimber's line within my range.

I don't get it.

I have to have a reliable car to get to work, but I can also take a cab if car fails.

If gun fails ... that gets a little pricier.

Lv4snobrdg
January 8, 2010, 03:55 PM
It's an analogy not a direct comparison.

The end is you get what you pay for. You turn the key its doesn't work is that because of the brand, the maintenance or what? Same goes for the trigger.

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 03:57 PM
IMHO: you buy a gun and pay for the brand.

What's in a brand? Well ask Chrysler?

I don't see allot of hyundais and escorts running at Daytona. But I do see them on the commute everyday. So it really depends on the purpose and the rate of use.

If you are going to use it allot you might want to be able to replace it when it breaksdown, like an escort. I have a thing for items made in the U.S.A. So I buy Chrysler/Dodge and Kimber.

$900 to $2000 for a reliable 1911 is my range for any manufacturer but makes 90% of Kimber's line within my range.

Then get a Dan Wesson or a Colt. Much better than Mimber in the exact same price range. I would take a gun from Dan Wesson or the Colt Custom shop over Mimber everyday of the week. Here is a quick run down of powder parts in Mimbers. Common MIM parts on Mimber Firearms.

Slide stop, hammer, sear, disconnecter, mag catch, plunger tube, firing pin stop, thumb safety, ejector, beaver tail, mainspring housing.

Lv4snobrdg
January 8, 2010, 04:02 PM
Rella,

Your right to your opinion is equal to your right to bear arms.

Thank you for it.

Kimber FTW!

There is mine.

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 04:04 PM
Lv4snobrdg

You argued that Kimber is a good value for the money. Does MIM powder parts equal value for you? I am not relying on opinion like you are. I am relying on facts. Do you dispute that Kimber uses powder parts in all the components I listed? Do you know why they use MIM parts? I will tell you its to save money on production. It is a cost cutting measure. Again that is not opinion. That is fact.

Oh and I made a mistake the MSH is plastic.

texas bulldog
January 8, 2010, 04:05 PM
to directly answer the OP, the tops that i would personally pay is probably somewhere around $1200, maybe $1500 tops. that puts colt and dan wesson well within my range. like rellascout, i am not a kimber fan, though my price range would make many of their offerings attainable if i ever changed my mind for some reason.

brown, bear, wilson, etc are probably out for me. that's fine. my wesson hasn't failed once, and that's as much as i can possibly ask.

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 04:16 PM
Look around and shop smart. I got this LNIB TRS for $1300. People should buy what they are comfortable with but an informed decision is a better decision. YMMV

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/IMG_0078.jpg

Lv4snobrdg
January 8, 2010, 04:22 PM
Rella,

I don't doubt that you are an expert in that which you speak. I also recognize when someone is very passionate about something.

My "argument" was in fact an "opinion" one that you disagree with, as all here can see. I made an attempt to make it humorous with a quick "FTW"

I have been around the internet for 19 years and one dubious truth always persists.

"Arguing" on the internet is like competing in the "Special" Olympics. Even if you win you are still "Special"...

I am not arguing anything with anybody anywhere at anytime for any reason whatsoever. If you choose to argue with me enjoy yourself as I will not take your bait.

I started my post with IMHO: In My Humble Opinion

Which is what the poster wants. He now has something that appears to be your opinion, anything else you have to say to me about Kimber is off topic and feel free to waste you time PM'ing me about it.

Thank You

The Bushmaster
January 8, 2010, 04:24 PM
$1200 Kimber UCC II with extra magazine. No Problem. Mother-in-law bought it for me...God rest her soul...

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 04:30 PM
What's in a brand? Well ask Chrysler?

I don't see allot of hyundais and escorts running at Daytona. But I do see them on the commute everyday. So it really depends on the purpose and the rate of use.

If you are going to use it allot you might want to be able to replace it when it breaksdown, like an escort. I have a thing for items made in the U.S.A. So I buy Chrysler/Dodge and Kimber.

$900 to $2000 for a reliable 1911 is my range for any manufacturer but makes 90% of Kimber's line within my range.

Is this not a poor attempt at argument from analogy? In the end you are entitled to your opinion I am also entitled to demonstrate the flaws in the manner in which you tried to present it.

Lv4snobrdg
January 8, 2010, 04:54 PM
no your greatness, not an argument, I am comparing two things that don't have much in common.

and if you were trying to expose the flaws in my analogy where is it? all I saw were you telling me whats MIM and what you think about it. Demonstrating the flaws would have been to say that 90% of Chrysler/Dodge components are made over seas or Canada then assembled in the USA. While Kimber is prolly more like 30%

tootles

EddieNFL
January 8, 2010, 04:58 PM
"Arguing" on the internet is like competing in the "Special" Olympics. Even if you win you are still "Special"...

Does that mean all my trophys are worthless???

Clarence
January 8, 2010, 04:58 PM
Absolutely not true. Like I said I have paid from $300 to $1300. Everyone of them have run without major problems. It has nothing to do with how much you pay but what you pay for. I have and never will own a kimber. Cohen ruined that company. He is no longer there and they have improved but there are too many other good guns at the price to mess with them.
If you will read my post again you will note that I prefaced my statement with "In my experience"...............and I can assure you sir that what I wrote was absolutely true, in my experience.

I've owned around 20 or so 1911's in the past 25 years upon which I based my opinion. You are certainly free to say that your experience is different than mine, but please don't claim that my experience is any less relevant than yours simply because I had different results than you.

I have purchased $700 1911's that ran fine, as a matter of fact the cheapest 1911 I ever purchased was for $400 and it ran great. I've bought several others in the $800-$1000 that were junk. The two most reliable that I've ever owned were a Les Baer that I gave $1200 for and an Ed Brown that I have about $1250 invested in.

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 05:03 PM
you buy a gun and pay for the brand.

What's in a brand? Well ask Chrysler?

I don't see allot of hyundais and escorts running at Daytona. But I do see them on the commute everyday. So it really depends on the purpose and the rate of use.

What I am point out is that when you pay for Kimber, name, you are getting the same quality parts you get in say a RIA.

The RIA cost $400. They will hold up just as long as a Mimber because they share the same parts commonality.

The Kimber is not built for the long haul. You have to replace most of these parts if you are a heavy shooter.

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 05:11 PM
Again I take issue with the idea you are putting forth. You are telling people that if you are not spending $1500 you are rolling the dice. The overwhelming majority of production guns, even Kimbers, run perfectly from the factory.

Your experience might be different but it does not make it accurate any more than my sampling makes my states 100% true for all. I think posts like yours give people the wrong impression.

The reality is that buying a 1911 at any price you are taking almost the same statistical risk of failure. I would imagine if you looked at the ISO quality data the rate of defect and failure for most gun manufactures is pretty low right out the the box.

I think too many people are scared away from 1911s because they think that they have to spend a mint to get one. RIAs are very good guns for the money. They are priced appropriately for the materials and their construction unlike Kimber who uses fancy finishes and nice grips to hide shotty work yet charge you a premium price. Springfield also seems to be able to deliver a solid basic gun at a low price.

Full Metal Jacket
January 8, 2010, 05:26 PM
past $1,500 they don't get better enough to warrant the cost. they just come with useless features like the inside being polished so you can't see the machine marks...

EddieNFL
January 8, 2010, 05:30 PM
I think too many people are scared away from 1911s because they think that they have to spend a mint to get one.

I think many people are scared away from 1911s because every company with a mill lathe punches out guns with one eye on sales, the other on quarterly profits and none on quality control. Also IMO, some companies, Colt in the '80s, Kimber post '98 or '99, took an eye off quality control an directed it towards profits. Colt appears to have redirected their vision.

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 05:32 PM
Thanks guys...

Rellascout... do you use your various 1911's for different reasons? It seems that a lot of 1911 owners become collectors. As your tag line indicates, they are just tools and I cannot think of anyone who owns a $50 black and decker circular saw, and a few others ending with a $200 dewalt circular saw.

I have lots of different 1911s and I use them for different purposes.

Some are range only guns. Things like my Colt 70 series which is bone stock.

Others are for carry like my Colt CCO, Dan Wesson CBOB and my Les Baer.

While others are tinkering toys like the Nornico I used to have. It is much easier on the mind and the pocket book to modify a $400 by yourself then it is to modify a $700 gun.

I had a Sig GSR because I was a Sig fan. I liked the Sig looks of the original GSR.

My latest 1911 is in 9mm.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/IMG_0086.jpg

So to answer the question is there are lots of different tools for different jobs. I would use a different analogy then a drill. I own over 20 kitchen knives. They all do the same job. They cut things but everyone of them cuts things differently. They all feel different in the hand. They all do some things better than others. I do not carve a roast with a paring knife and I do not make rosettes with my cleaver.

In the end if the 1911 suits you they become addictive. Like kitchen knives if you cook. :D

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 05:35 PM
I think many people are scared away from 1911s because every company with a mill lathe punches out guns with one eye on sales, the other on quarterly profits and none on quality control. Also IMO, some companies, Colt in the '80s, Kimber post '98 or '99, took an eye off quality control an directed it towards profits. Colt appears to have redirected their vision.

I agree. Colt dropped the ball at one point. These days they are turning out some very nice firearms IMHO. They have gone back to limiting their production and charging accordingly.

Dan Wesson is doing the same. 2500 or so pistols that is it. Although IMHO the changes they are making are pushing them out of the value market they have dominated in the last 2 or 3 years.

Kimber well I think I have made my thoughts on kimber clear. Unfortunately Mr Cohen is doing the same song and dance at Sig since leaving Kimber.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
January 8, 2010, 05:37 PM
I owned a Rock Island but sold it when I ran short on cash, great pistol. If you look there are great deals out there like this one I got for 450 http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm51/homedepotgeorge/DSCN1186.jpg For the record I've never owned a Kimber but have seen enough complaints that I felt uncomfortable with purchasing one. I do own a Dan Wesson revolver and if their 1911's are half as good that will be my next purchase and I have searched for any bad reviews and came up empty. JMHO

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
January 8, 2010, 05:42 PM
I just looked at the Dan Wessons and the pointman marksman model has an MSRP of 1300.00 which should be maybe 1000 to 1100 retail? SWEET LOOKING PIECE http://cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-pointman-marksman/

EddieNFL
January 8, 2010, 05:45 PM
George, one of two guns I regrett selling/trading was a Combat Commander.

DRYHUMOR
January 8, 2010, 05:54 PM
I personally couldn't benefit from a 2000.00 to 3000.00 1911, someone doing serious type shooting, matches, etc, prob could.

I can pick up a decent new or new old stock sleeper or used one for 600.00 to 800.00 and put a bit into it for what mods I want to have and end up with a 1500.00 pistol. Or, I could buy a 1500.00 pistol and be done with it.

StrikeFire83
January 8, 2010, 06:10 PM
How much would you pay for a 1911?

Nothing.

Not trolling, but you asked, and I answered.

To me guns are utilitarian tools that are to be used for defending my life and if need be, putting food on the table. Do I take some pleasure in the drive to attain good accuracy from my handguns at the range? Sure I do.

But there are scores of excellent handguns for carry and home defense that can be had all day long at right around $500: Glocks, S&W M&Ps, Springfield XDs, Sigs, CZs, etc. These guns generally run incredibly well with all kinds of in-spec ammo, and are expected to do so out of the box. When the occasional bad gun crops up, a single trip to the factory is often all that's required and all is well.

The MODERN 1911 seems to be a serious exception. I say modern because I know the older guns weren't always like this. If you want a beautiful looking gun that is capable of shooting 1/2" groups at 25 yards and gets the ooohhs and ahhhhhs at the range and on gun forums, get a 1911. But the amount of malfunction, equivocation, bs, kitchen table tinkering, trips to the gunsmith, trips back to the factory, etc that are tolerated by 1911 enthusiasts simply are not acceptable with any other make, save some other antique / collectible guns.

jmorris
January 8, 2010, 06:15 PM
Wow. I am stunned. I think I may buy a glock. They are cheaper and you do not need to get the ultra $1500 model to get one that works everytime.

Yes, you will be money ahead for a reliable pistol with the Glock as long as you don't go putting a bunch of after market crap in it trying to make it feel like a single action pistol and ruining it’s reliability.

I personally couldn't benefit from a 2000.00 to 3000.00 1911, someone doing serious type shooting, matches, etc, prob could.


That’s a good point until I started shooting competitively I didn’t have a 1911 type pistol that cost more than $1000 but you can’t even pay for the parts of an open pistol with that.

rogertc1
January 8, 2010, 06:16 PM
Special warning!!!
1911's are addicting and after you buy one you will most likely buy more.
Be carefull. I tried to get all the different varietys.
You have been warned. All of them cost me from $350 to $800 EA.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/rogertc1/1911s.jpg

Strahley
January 8, 2010, 06:32 PM
$600 or so, but I'd prefer to go even less. With as good of a shooter you can get from a cheaper RIA, I see no reason to drop over $1k on some fancy safe queen that isn't going to do anything extra for me than look shiny

To me, a pretty gun is one that works when called on, and can hit what it needs to hit. RIA 1911s do just that

surjimmy
January 8, 2010, 06:33 PM
Owning a 1911 is not about the ohhhhhs and ahhhhhs I get at the range. It's owning a great weapon, a part of history and it just happens to be the semi I like best. The same with the Hi Power i like it next, but thats the reason they make so many different kinds. Everyone's taste is different. If you want to buy a Glock buy a Glock if you want a Sigma then buy it, but just someone wants a nice high end 1911 don't think for one minute it's about the ohhhhs and ahhhs.

EddieNFL
January 8, 2010, 06:54 PM
But the amount of malfunction, equivocation, bs, kitchen table tinkering, trips to the gunsmith, trips back to the factory, etc that are tolerated by 1911 enthusiasts simply are not acceptable with any other make, save some other antique / collectible guns.

1) 1911s are unreliable
2) Glocks go kaboom
3) The .44 mag will knock a man down regardless of where you hit him
4) You'll be tried for murder if you shoot someone with reloads
5) Mark Walberg shoots 1-1/2 inch groups at 1,000 yards
6) CCI 400 primers will cause an AR to blow up in your face (recently read this one)
7) Firing a gun under water will make it blow up

Any other myths or internet expertise I may have overlooked?

GojuBrian
January 8, 2010, 07:24 PM
Aside from the mim drama and the snide remarks I do appreciate the experienced input. :neener:

For me, I think my top dollar is $1500. I'm looking at dan wessons right now..............if I can find one!! :banghead:

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 07:43 PM
Get a Valor..... then

mesinge2
January 8, 2010, 07:56 PM
right around $1000 give or take ~$150 is where I'd say would be my limit on a 1911

I am right here as well

mljdeckard
January 8, 2010, 08:06 PM
The only Kimber MIM parts I have seen break are the pictures that have been posted on this board. Neither mine, nor any of the dozen or so owned by friends I shoot with regularly has ever had a problem. Same with the plastic MSH. Now I actually intend to replace mine with an arched housing with the lanyard loop when I happen across one, but I have never heard of a plastic one breaking.

My personal extensive experience is as follows.

In the army we had 87 WWII frankenguns of various manufacture and origins. I only shot them once, I don't recall any malfunctions of any kind. In the spring of 1992 we traded them out for new-in-cosmoline Berettas and I wept. I stole a handful of the G.I. magazines and I had all kinds of trouble with them.

I traded a guitar to a friend of mine for a Auto Ordnance 1911 which would have been manufactured around the early 90s. It was a nightmare. Everything about it was terrible. The sights, the slide, the trigger, and to top it off, the front sight popped out two days after the front sight on my new Sigma did the same thing. I got rid of both of them.

I bought a new Colt 1991 A1 in about 1995. Very vanilla and spartan. I liked it just fine, but I don't recall anything special about how well it functioned. It was much like the G.I. ones I had used in the army. I left the country for a while and wound up selling it.

I bought a used Para Ordnance P-12. Again, not bad, but pretty unremarkable. I went through a phase where I carried a Beretta, a Sig, a Glock, etc, and I came back to a Kimber 1911. I shot it, and all of the function was so fluid and perfect, I suddenly felt like it was what I had been looking for all this time. It was how I WISHED all of those other 1911s had worked. I let all of my friends shoot it, even those who weren't fans of the 1911 or .45s in general. They ALL loved it, several bought them, and most of my friends who carry now carry Kimber 1911s.

My dad asked me for suggestions for a 1911 and wound up buying a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec, and as was mentioned above, he will need to get the slide machined if he was a selection of sights. A good friend of mine went in on a group buy from Para Ordnance for some wide-frame 1911s with custom colors and graphics dedicated to a particular military unit. When he got his, the cavity under the bushing, where the plug sits was squeezed so out-of-spec that the plug wouldn't come out. He had to send it back to the factory to get it re-shaped. Both of them said they really wish they had just bought a Kimber.

Here's the thing. Kimber sells several TIMES more units than the next 1911 manufacturer. (BATFE posts these statistics if you want to check.) When you sell many more TIMES the number as your competitors, there may well be a higher percieved number of malfunctions. Added to this, on boards like this, NEGATIVE experiences with a particular gun get much more bandwidth than POSITIVE experiences. ("I bought a new gun this weekend, I took it to the range, I shot it, cleaned it, and took it home." is pretty boring.) Even if there is a higher NUMBER of problems, it doesn't mean there is a higher RATE or likelihood of problems than another manufacturer.

In all fairness, I try to look at all options in a given price range when I buy a gun. If I had to replace my Kimber tomorrow, I might look at a STI Spartan, a Dan Wesson, or some similar ones. But I have never had any more success between me or my friends with any brand or model than with Kimber 1911s. If the MIM parts REALLY give you the willies that much, they are all easily and cheaply replaced. (I haven't bother or worried about it in over 10,000 rounds.)

EddieNFL
January 8, 2010, 08:39 PM
In the spring of 1992 we traded them out for new-in-cosmoline Berettas and I wept.

Sometime around '86 I was involved in qual testing before Berettas were issued. Having about 12 years experience with the 1911, I remember thinking, "This is gonna suck." It did.

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 09:12 PM
mljdeckard,

Why pay $1000+ for a gun filled with inferior parts. Ford sold more Ford Explorers for more than any other vehicle at one point. Did that make them a good car/truck?

It is my opinion that volume is the exact reason that Mimber uses MIM parts. They do it so they can produce more pistols at a lower cost than anyone else.

I mean for gods sake they make all sorts of special models for individual retailers like Gander Mountain. They went from a very good builder of low volume production 1911s to the Ford of 1911s and let me be the first to tell you that Quality is not job number 1 at MIMber. I am happy to hear your pistols are doing well. I hope that trend continues.

Clarence
January 8, 2010, 09:58 PM
Again I take issue with the idea you are putting forth. You are telling people that if you are not spending $1500 you are rolling the dice. The overwhelming majority of production guns, even Kimbers, run perfectly from the factory.
If you will go back and read my original post you will note that I stated $1000 not $1500.

Perhaps some of us expect more from a gun than others. My current 1911 has had a little over 7k rounds put through it in the last year. I carry it all the time and shoot it weekly. It is not a safe queen in any sense of the word. The finish is worn and it has shiny spots on it. It's also been perfectly flawless since I've owned it. It will shoot hardball, hollowpoints, or cast bullets with equal reliability. It has the best trigger of any 1911 I've ever owned.

A lot of people won't fire 1k rounds a year through their 1911. Most will fire much less. Those folks may be perfectly happy with a $500 1911. It all depends on the expectations that someone has.

It's possible that I could have had the same results with a $500 1911 but my experience tells me otherwise.

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 10:12 PM
I am pretty sure my Dan Wesson CBOB which I paid $700 will be just fine. :)

I agree with you there is a tool for every job. Your job is not the same as everyone else's. Your original statements made huge assumptions. Your clarifications put your words into a context which make more sense.

How many shooters on this board fo you think put 1000+ rounds through a single gun a year? Let alone 7000+?

For you a $500 1911 may not be up to snuff but who else does that translate too? The OP made no statements about the purpose of the gun or intended round count.

PS I love the passive aggressive arrogance in your post. Some of us try to educate others on the wide variety of pistols available with the understanding that not everyone is the same as us. Not everyone has $1000 to spend on a 1911. From your statements one would conclude that there is no point in getting one if you cannot spend that kind of coin. :(

orionengnr
January 8, 2010, 11:31 PM
I have owned approximately 20 1911s in the last 20 years. I have paid from $200 to "around" $1500. Wish I had more to spend; I wouldn't have any trouble ponying up for a Wilson or a Brown, etc.

In my experience, I have had utterly unsatisfactory examples from Colt, Springfield, ArmsCor and Para.

The variable is the rate. With Colt it was 33% junk (based on a sample size of three). With Springfield it was 67% (sample size of three). With ArmsCor it was 100% (sample size of one). With Para it was 25% (sample size of four).
One Les Baer, good to go so far.

With Kimber it is zero per cent failures, based on a sample size of eight (and likely to climb).

Why is the sample size larger on the Kimbers? Maybe because the first three or four were flawless, and I continued buying them...just bought another about three weeks ago. The least expensive one cost me $575, and the priciest was about $1200.

If I were going to the gun show tomorrow (I am) and looking for another 1911 (I'm not, but one might catch my eye), I'd probably come home with a used Wilson/Les Baer or a new/used Kimber. And that is an opinion, but it is based upon solid experience. :)

Now if I find a CBOB for $700 tomorrow, I will probably take it home. :)

Clarence
January 9, 2010, 12:59 AM
I agree with you there is a tool for every job. Your job is not the same as everyone else's. Your original statements made huge assumptions. Your clarifications put your words into a context which make more sense.

How many shooters on this board fo you think put 1000+ rounds through a single gun a year? Let alone 7000+?

For you a $500 1911 may not be up to snuff but who else does that translate too? The OP made no statements about the purpose of the gun or intended round count.

PS I love the passive aggressive arrogance in your post. Some of us try to educate others on the wide variety of pistols available with the understanding that not everyone is the same as us. Not everyone has $1000 to spend on a 1911. From your statements one would conclude that there is no point in getting one if you cannot spend that kind of coin.
Friend, it seems that my views simply rub you the wrong way, which I have no desire to do. I will again direct you to my original post in which I stated - "If you want a great 1911 you are going to spend at least $1500-$2000 or just a skosh more. Many people are satisfied with $800 - $1000 1911's, many aren't."

I'm not sure how you translate that into "passive arrogance". Some people are satisfied with Chevys and some aren't. Some people want a Cadillac. I'm glad you are happy with your CBOB and I'm even happier that I'm satisfied with my gun. I am in no position to criticize the choices you make for you and will not do so. However, I am in a position to state my opinion about my choices............which is what the original question was about.

mljdeckard
January 9, 2010, 01:29 AM
Rella-

I didn't. My Kimber Custom II was $630 NIB. I added night sights and Hogue wrap-around finger grips, and dropped the FLGR.

Bronx
January 9, 2010, 08:12 AM
I'm a professional musician. 30 years playing guitar. All of my instruments are custom made. Looking back I've realized that if I had just bit the bullet, say 15 years ago, and bought the high end stuff I now enjoy, I would have saved money versus all the flipping of axes I've gone through.

I'm not new to shooting, but I've only recently gotten back into it. My criteria for a 1911 type is extreme reliability, durability, made in the USA, easy shooting (lighter recoil), and accurate enough for self defense.

I'm considering the Wilson tactical elite. Pricey, like a great electric guitar. What else should I look at with the Wilson being the price ceiling?

I'm thinking I may not need that much gun.

Mastifflover
January 9, 2010, 09:08 AM
$550.00 tops. Any more than that I would feel bad knowing I could have bought a brand new Glock and had a gun that works out of the box. Any more than that I know the gun would just be a safe/range queen that I wouldn't want to put scratches or holster wear on.

I drive a Chevy, ride a Honda motorcycle, hunt with a Savage rifle and can't appreciate the difference between a $20 dollar bottle of wine and one that costs $200.:p Maybe I'm just not at that stage in my life where dropping $1,000 and up on a gun is considered normal and I don't know if I'll ever be.

I've shot a couple high end 1911's and while they were nice to shoot and very pretty to look at, I would'nt buy one for myself. I will admit though that I have been looking at the compact RIA tactical and reading the reviews. If I ever get the itch to get a 1911 and buy one I think I can handle some folks looking down thier nose at me.;)

Clarence
January 9, 2010, 09:35 AM
I'm considering the Wilson tactical elite. Pricey, like a great electric guitar. What else should I look at with the Wilson being the price ceiling?
If I were you I would also check out the Les Baer SRP and the Ed Brown Classic Custom or Executive Elite. I've owned Baers, Wilsons, and Browns and all 3 make a great 1911 but my personal favorite is Ed Brown.

S&W620
January 9, 2010, 09:44 AM
A key part to this question that a lot of people seem to be missing is instead of consider simply "How much would you spend", you must also consider "how much do you make".

A guy working a job bringing in 15K a year, either part time or full time, may spend months or years saving enough to buy a new Colt. To him, this is an expensive gun that he may feel more than serves its purpose. This same person's friends working similar jobs may even ask why he would spend so much money on a gun. To these guys, $800-$1000 is a TON of money that may be hard to justify spending.

On the other hand, take a guy making 450k a year. This fella makes more money every two weeks than the first guy does all year. For this guy, it would be a whole lot easier to go and drop 6-8k on a fully custom and engraved pistol than it would for the first guy to buy his Colt.

My point to all of this is that money and cost are relative terms. Things that I own are coveted by some, scoffed at by others and both parties are just in their thinking.

EddieNFL
January 9, 2010, 09:46 AM
Any more than that I know the gun would just be a safe/range queen that I wouldn't want to put scratches or holster wear on.

I've never followed that line of thinking. Other than true collectibles, why not shoot them? My most expensive model has about 12K-15K down range in about two years. The next in line is at about 40K in six years. The two swap between carry and match/practice. Eventually, I'll have them overhauled and refinished and keep on shooting. Others are used for different tasks. I love my Kimber Eclipse. It has a lot of rounds down range, but these days rides around in the truck as a backup. The Ultra Raptor is a church gun. Others come out for different occasions, but they all get shot regularly. Probably the least used is an moderate priced Wilson.

If I had a 911 RUF, I would drive it every day.

EddieNFL
January 9, 2010, 10:00 AM
Opps

crashbuell
January 9, 2010, 10:08 AM
I think that it is ridiculous to pay more than about $550-$600 for any handgun. Anything more than that, and you probably bought a "keeping up with the Jones's" gun or somehow got into a "who has the biggest d!@& contest" with the guys back at the department. A handgun should be reliable and accurate, yet not have so many built-in "improvements/refinements" that it prices itself out of the purchasing ability of the average dude. I know that I probably speak for most of the other LEOs on this board when I say that I'm not rich but I still like to recreational shoot. Alot. We as Americans still need higher quality, lower priced handguns.

EddieNFL
January 9, 2010, 10:14 AM
You probably wouldn't like my truck, either.

sigsteve
January 9, 2010, 11:30 AM
Rellascout, I see you're stirring trouble as usual wherever you go. Of course I'm the troll over here at THR as I don't frequent here much. Spending most of my time at 1911forum/DW

As a member of the COTEP I've become a Dan Wesson fan and sold most of my Sig's. All except the 229 .357sig which shall stay out of necessity.

As for what to pay for 1911's. I'm new to the 1911's and don't pretend to be an expert as you seem to be, but I've seen enough reviews and reader complaints to see that price is somewhat indicative of what you get. I would never buy some brands that are even over $1000. Para being among them. I've just seen too many incidents that lead me to question their quality. I'd like to own a Kimber, but there too is a product that I've had too many say they've got more that their fair share of problems. I'd never own a S&W, but more for political reasons of them as a company. Colt is not what they used to be either.

As for MIM parts. While I wouldn't buy a gun with them in them. Just a confidence reason I guess. But there are those who say, Dave Severns being one, that the current process of making the MIM parts is much better and that the chance of failure is about the same as a cast or forged part now. Me I'll take the forged part though. I like the idea of a quality made part.

Anyways. I thought I'd share pics of my two current Dan Wessons. a CBOB in .45 and a Razorback in 10mm (pre-cz '04)

http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad24/smacsteve/DSC_0114.jpg

rellascout
January 9, 2010, 11:57 AM
I love when you say I am causing trouble but then go on to agree with 99% of what I have stated. :D

Why did you sell your Sigs? I thought you were a big Sig fan?

sigsteve
January 9, 2010, 12:02 PM
Oh I never said I didn't agree with you, but you sure have a way of pissing people off when they don't agree with you! ;)

I do agree that the DW is the best kept secret (if it is a secret any longer) in the 1911 world. It most certainly the best value in 1911's. And I do think they're doing the right thing on their changes for 2010. I plan to buy a V-BOB in Duty Treatment when they're available. I'm already in line with several people just to be sure.

rellascout
January 9, 2010, 12:25 PM
I am in the other camp on DW. I think that in the middle of recession they are pushing the price point too high.

I do understand that they have limited production. They can only produce about 2500 pieces a year and that by moving the price point about $300 north and bringing more of the production in house they can make more money per gun which is after all their reason of existence.

I think they will move most of those pistols. I also agree with getting rid of the 10mm. The 9mm I think is a mistake. IMHO this is a huge untapped market.

I think I piss people off because I do not pull punches. I speak with conviction and I do not hide the truth. This is why I am no longer on the Sig Forum. I told Para if he wanted to allow only half the truth to be posted on his site I had no need for it. I have not been back since. Mike Packwood, Para, censors that site all the time. He is into group speak especially when it comes to his pet vendors.

I think the last time we corresponded you were talking up Sig. I guess you moved on to Dan Wesson. Better choice IMHO. :)

mljdeckard
January 9, 2010, 12:34 PM
And Buell, I don't think it's ridiculous. But I DO think that on 1911s, the law of diminishing returns kicks in after about $700.

I will tell anyone buy whatever you want. Shoot whatever you want. I tent to criticize people who spend too little on a gun, rationalize that junk guns in tiny calibers are 'good enough' for anything. These days, you can spend less than $600, but it limits your options a bit.

sigsteve
January 9, 2010, 01:01 PM
Rellascout, you're right about Mike and the Sigforum. Way too much censoring and a real ******* (Para) that run the show. Although I think the last heated discussion you had over there about TGS and the 229's he had was a bit harsh.

But enough of that. It's the past and it's behind us. On the new DW path... I think they're filling a void that has been vacant for a long time and with only a 3500 gun per year production they're going after the big boy customs like Baer, Brown, & Wilson. If their finish is as good as the Ed Browns and as accurate as Wilson's they'll be onto something. Forget the recession. It's not a factor for this game and market they're in. For the folks who can plunk down $900 to $1,200 another $300 to $400 isn't going to scare them away. They will sell everyone of their 2010 production and have people looking for more and have to wait until 2011. That's my prediction. Let's wait and see what happens. This is of course all guessing until we see the real thing at shot in LV.

rellascout
January 9, 2010, 01:10 PM
I understand where they were going but I am biased. I bought my CBOB for $700. I don't care how nice the new ones are it is never going to be that type of value.

The CBOB was 8o% to 85% of the Cobra Carry and it cost me about 1/3 of what the Brown would have cost me.

Even if the new Valor line is everything they promised it is still only $300 to $400 from a Les Baer or Wilson if you know where to shop. I do not doubt that they will sell them I just think people are not going to be getting the same value they once did.

I personally stopped looking to get a DW when they hit the $1000 mark. Again I paid about $1300 for my TRS so for me paying $1000 for a CBOB would not get me value for my money but that said I have the luxury of that opinion because I already own one. :)

sigsteve
January 9, 2010, 01:28 PM
See, there you go again! You aren't absolute in your opinion! To say that "I don't care how nice the new ones are it is never going to be that type of value." is just plain nonsense! Just because you picked up a older DW for your $700 doesn't mean that the newer ones aren't worth the $1,000 or $1,500! Dan Wesson has been making very sharp improvements in their quality and fit every year and I've got a pre-cz and a new '09 CBOB and I can tell you that the CBOB is a better built 1911. I've also shot a new '09 RZ-10 and again it IS a better pistol that is priced right. Just because you have this pre-consonseived notion that a Baer is just better because it's a Baer or the same with the Brown.

In the future you need to understand this. You don't speak the "truth" as you stated. You speak "your" opinion! Nothing more. I will say the same for me. I have an "opinion" and it's mine. But the way you state things is of absolutes is just not right and you don't make any friends here or on Sig Forum or especially at 1911forum/DW. Don't forget you were banned at Sig Forum for this and you will probably be banned elsewhere if you don't learn to respect others and be a little more humble.

rellascout
January 9, 2010, 01:57 PM
Hey Sigsteve I won't tell you how to post so how about you don't tell me how to?

I have confidence in my opinions. I state them in a direct manner. You seem to take offense to that. I suggest you put me on ignore if it bothers you that much.

What I have stated is IMHO fact. There is no way that the new Valor with a price tag of $1500 street price of say $1300 is going to match the value offered by the CBOB of old. They are closing the gap in price between them and the competition. They are getting very close to the point of diminishing returns.

Its a simple $$$ for $$$ analysis. YMMV.

PS. As for the Sig Forum I left on my own. The first time Para Censored me I told him to delete my account. For some reason he did not. When I noticed it was still active I posted. He censored me again and I left. End of story.

Also for those of you who do not know COTEP is a Dan Wesson fan group on 1911forum.com headed by the marketing director of Dan Wesson.

possum
January 9, 2010, 04:15 PM
about $1,000 which is exactly how much there abouts that i spent on my sa mc operator.

EddieNFL
January 9, 2010, 04:22 PM
Spending most of my time at 1911forum/DW

Too many kool-aide drinkers.

I'd never own a S&W, but more for political reasons of them as a company.

Was warned on the 1911 forum for making the same statement. Was later banned for using the Acronym "WTH." Seems to be an easily offended group.

sigsteve
January 9, 2010, 04:53 PM
Too many kool-aide drinkers huh? I just think I'll go back over there and stay. I like their flavor of kool-aide better anyways.

As for being warned on the S&W for that statement... You must have been on the S&W forum then. I never go there. BTW, if you were banned for an Acronym of WTH, then you must have done something else to piss them off and that was just a technicality than the real reason.

Bye, bye.

Rella, stay boy stay!

rellascout
January 9, 2010, 05:07 PM
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=2480458#post2480458

:D

NMGonzo
January 9, 2010, 05:13 PM
I want a DW

I've seen my buddy shoot with it and there was nothing wrong with it.

It was nice and shiny.

rellascout
January 9, 2010, 05:16 PM
They are great guns.... I love my CBOB.

EddieNFL
January 9, 2010, 05:24 PM
As for being warned on the S&W for that statement... You must have been on the S&W forum then. I never go there. BTW, if you were banned for an Acronym of WTH, then you must have done something else to piss them off and that was just a technicality than the real reason.

Never been in the S&W forum. I was warned for making a "political" statement. The *** incident was responding to a post where someone asked what DB meant and complained about acronyms. I answered that acronyms were a military "way of life" and listed several including WTH, whick I explained meant "what the heck." Mod said I was circumventing the foul language rule. I suspect he didn't like my opinion of Kimber. I got over it.

Too many kool-aide drinkers huh? I just think I'll go back over there and stay. I like their flavor of kool-aide better anyways.

<David Spader> Buh, bye.

sigsteve
January 9, 2010, 05:30 PM
I've not even read NFL's reply, but I'm sure it's scathing after I posted my last reply. I want to publicly apologize to Rellascout and everyone else that I offended today. I've sent a PM to Rellascout and apologized to him, but wanted to say this on the forum too. I just had surgery the other day and I'm on the painkillers and as some of you may know it effects ones judgement. I've been an ass to many here today and elsewhere and I regret having said what I said.

This is a great forum and while I don't frequent THR much I respect the immense knowledge that exist here.

Thank you for listening... Regards,

Steve

EddieNFL
January 9, 2010, 05:33 PM
I'm not big on "scathing." I'm more of a "rape and plunder" kind of guy.

sigsteve
January 9, 2010, 05:42 PM
Funny. Thanks. ;)

rellascout
January 9, 2010, 05:56 PM
Its all good. I did not take any of it personally. I hope you feel better.

rellascout
January 9, 2010, 05:59 PM
I'm not big on "scathing." I'm more of a "rape and plunder" kind of guy.

Pirate?

EddieNFL
January 9, 2010, 06:17 PM
More along the lines of Hagar the Horrible. Never did get my sea legs.

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