[ontarget]

Hi guys, I am going to start casting R-B's for my 1851 Navy and was wondering how to get started. I bought a .454 double die from Lee and have access to plenty of lead. I want to do this the old fashion way not with an electric melting pot. Any advice? Thanks!

[Chawbaccer]

I use a plumbers pot and an electric hot plate. I use a piece of furnace duct around the pot to keep the heat where it is needed and put a piece of scrap on top while heating the lead up. Some use a Coleman stove or the kitchen range. I know you want to do it the "old fashioned" way, but practicality will win out, as well as safety. You should have a well ventilated place for casting as there are fumes.

[ontarget]

Thanks, Chaw, how much heat is required? Could I use hot coals from the wood stove?

[Zeke/PA]

The TRULY traditional way would be to build fire outdoors with a spot for a melting pot to fill a bullet mold every now and then.
Go electric and spend your time shooting "quality" cast balls instead of "iffy" stuff made the old fashioned way.

[xXxplosive]

Zeke's right IMO......but also you must maintain the heat on the mold so the lead cools systematically.
No moisture or water around the lead pot ever.
Be Safe, Have Fun.

[wittzo]

It would be neat to cast a few bullets that way, but not in bulk. Lots of people would cast bullets for tomorrow's hunt sitting in front of their fireplace, but I wouldn't do that. Sitting next to an open campfire is ideal for safety,if you're able to wash your hands afterwards; it's as well ventilated as you can get. :) Just be careful not to knock any ash in the lead, or it will get crummy on you and don't get your bullet pot mixed up with your bean pot..:)

I'm going to take advantage of the cold to comfortably wear my welding gloves and cast a few hundred balls this weekend on my open front porch using my Coleman stove hooked up to a distribution tee on a 20# propane tank.

[Gatofeo]

Casting bullets from a pot placed on the coals of a fire is an exercise in frustration, low productivity and scorched knuckles even if you wear the obligatory gloves.
Use a propane burner or Coleman. Do NOT use an aluminum pot to hold the lead, you need cast iron. Aluminum pots, when filled with lead and placed over heat ample enough to melt lead, get weak bottoms. The weight of the lead will suddenly plunge through the weak aluminum bottom and may seriously injure you.
The American Rifleman has had numerous warnings about melting lead in aluminum pots for years. Cast iron is the way to go.
You will need to use dead-soft, nearly pure lead. Wheelweights are made of an alloy that is too hard. I've fired wheelweight alloy balls in my own cap and balls. The lead ball is hard, making it difficult to ram down, and accuracy is lousy. Hard bullets and black powder are a poor combination.
Soft, nearly pure lead is often difficult to find today.
You really want to get into casting? You can buy .454 inch balls much cheaper than an investment in a pot, burner, ladle and so on.
But if you have the bullet mould, give it a try. Wear long, thick leather gloves. Never let any kind of water near your molten lead. Water dropped onto molten lead can cause the molten metal to explode upward, giving you bad burns.
Cast outdoors, in good ventilation. Handle all lead while wearing latex gloves, or the aforementioned gloves. Lead poisoning is possible, but it is usually contracted by eating or drinking with lead on your fingers.
Lee moulds come with very good instructions. Read them. Smoke the mould cavities with an old candle stub, to put down a layer of soot on the cavity. This will help the lead fill out the cavity.
Bullet casting is tedious. If you have a bunch of soft, pure lead then it's worth it. But it takes time too.
I've been casting bullets since about 1971, for modern and black powder guns. Bullet casting can be fun and fascinating, but weigh the cost of equipment and time against just buying a few boxes of balls.

[dikar]

I work in a hospital and have alot of lead. The lead is used to shield nuclear med techs form radiation and some nuclear medicine doses comes in vials made of lead. Does anyone know anything about this lead wheather it is pure or some type of alloy? I have abunch of it(50lbsor so). thanks del

[arcticap]

Lead shielding is safe...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=483697&highlight=radiation

...and I would guess that it would be high quality lead.

If you are willing to do some phonework you might be able to find a Nuclear Medicine Department that would be happy to have you take away their lead. It is getting difficult legally to acquire and dispose of lead due to safety concerns.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=216008&highlight=radiation

[ontarget]

would those r-b's glow in the dark? LOL

[twice barrel]

Shielding lead is good. But don't waste you're time with the "over the coals" stuff. Get a Lee Melting pot and get to casting. Its what Kit Carson would have done given the choice. :D

TB

[Stophel]

I melt lead in my folding lead ladle over a propane torch in the shop floor. Put lead in the ladle, heat it till it melts, hold it at heat, swirling it around just a little for about 20 or 30 seconds and pour. The lead will pour out from under the oxide/crud on the top. It needs to be good and hot. I heat the mould up with the torch too. I could easily do the same thing with a fire if I had one. The balls are perfectly fine. Once you get started and get going, it doesn't take long to cast up a mess of balls.

The ladle is about 3" across and holds a few balls worth of lead.

[scrat]

For casting a good casting pot is the best way to go. you can take short cuts later on when you learn the proper ways to cast. You do save a lot of money casting however you need to know what your doing. Especially when dealing with 700 degree lead. In short you have to heat up the lead, then flux the lead. Then you need to heat up the mold to get to casting temperatures. then you can start casting. For sure you can use a cast iron pot over a stove. i have done that plenty of times. but nothing beats a good lee production bottom pour.

[ontarget]

OK so I went to the second hand junk store and found the perfect cast iron cauldron.
I would say it holds a half quart. $2.00 Paid $7.00 for 14# of pure lead.
lit a fire in the pot belly stove, and built a good bed of coals. Melted the lead and once I figured out the sweet spot in the temperature started casting round balls. I was able to cast 20-24 before reheating the lead. Got 105 keepers. Pretty satisfying!
Now I just gotta learn to make the Holy Black. Oh I still have a lot of lead left, I guess that will be next weekends project.

[BHP FAN]

I'd almost rather be casting than shooting.

[Bluehawk]

Useing dead soft lead is correct for revolvers because the round ball bullets are cast oversized, then swaged down into the chambers. When it comes to rifles, I have used that as well as wheel weights and even linotype because they are undersized and wrapped in a patch. They load and shoot with excellent results!

[ontarget]

Thanks for that comment BlueHawk. Next week I will be casting .490's for my rifle and was wondering about wheel weights for that application. Makes sense though as a patch is used with the ball.

[Bluehawk]

You are most welcome Ontarget...
You won't have any problems loading and shooting wheel weight round balls...they just won't expand on target as well as soft lead but certainly are deadly!
The ball never touches the barrel...it's the patch that engraves into the rifleing so almost any alloy can be used for a patched round ball.
I've never tried steel ball bearings though! :what:

[Bluehawk]

I've been casting for over 25 years now...to the point I even cast lead soldiers, cannons, and such! Fun but frustrating at times.
If you guys want to see some examples let me know and I'll post a couple of pics.

[ontarget]

Sounds interesting. Lets see what you got Hawk.

[BCRider]

A note on wheel weights. A local guy that has been casting his own for years mentioned that the shops are all switching over to a zinc alloy with no lead. He wasn't sure if this move was due to higher lead costs or if the environmentalists had a hand in it. Apparently one zinc alloy weight in a whole pot of lead will ruin it. Something about making the pour end up with lots of voids or failure to form correctly.

[qajaq59]

Something about making the pour end up with lots of voids or failure to form correctly. The zinc/lead alloy wont fill out the mold properly. Best to sell it off, or use it for fishing weights.
But at least it melts at a higher temp, so if you keep you pot temp low when you're smelting the lead, the zinc will float and you can skim it off the top.

[Bluehawk]

I took a couple of pics of the lead soldiers and cannons...how do I post them here?

[mykeal]

Sitcky on posting pictures: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=369296

[hildo]

http://www.twolefthands.nl/Zwart%20Kruit/page10/20070409_loodsmelten.jpg
This how it's done on a woodfire. I'm fluxing the lead in the picture.
Been casting for a couple of years this way, but just bought an electric melting pot.
The problem with a woodfire is that the temperature is not consistant, but you will be able to cast lead balls, no doubt.
I'ts quite warm too...

Use plain 100% lead for use in front loading revolvers, it's easier on the loading lever mechanism not having unnecessary hard bullets, and they shoot straight.

Check each and every bullet after your casting session, they surely do not all come out perfect.

Also, make sure you're not sniffing too much of the lead vapours. It is said to be unhealthy. Outside casting is best, even with an electric pot.

Hildo

[Bluehawk]

Lead-tin soldier pics I make when bored:

[ontarget]

Very nice Bluehawk. I'm impressed! Have you considered selling some of your figures?
Where did you get the molds?

[Bluehawk]

Thanks Target.....I did sell them in hobby stores many years back but no longer...not enough interest (they are lead alloy and this is California).
If you or anyone else is interested, I can cast and put together a set which includes the soldier and rammer (2 pieces)...the cannon (4 pieces)...cannon balls...powder barrels (cast resin already painted)...gunpowder (granulated charcoal)...and ground cover (colored sand).
You supply the wood base, glue, solder, and paint...you can use expoxy instead of solder if you choose.
$25 + $5 shipping priority mail.
*Specify if you want the Napoleon or Parrott rifle*
The Napoleon cannon wheels will be the same spoked wheels as the Parrott rifle. The Napoleon mold won't cast them reliably anymore but the Parrott's fit and look good!
The soldiers are 54mm and the cannons are pretty correct for that scale...I also have some Medieval knights but never made an example to exhibit but can take some pics of them if anyone likes that time period.
There are no real directions except: file/sand the parts smooth that need it or to fit ...soak them in cheap vinegar for a minute to "etch" the metal...rinse with water...when dry, paint with your fav acrylic or epoxy model paints. (apply a white base coat first)
The ground cover "sand" is easy...just lay a thick, even layer of white glue on the base board...cover with a thick layer of "sand" then dump it off...it leaves a nice even layer on the board!
Super glue (thick) or epoxy works good for gluing the figures to the base board.
That's all there is to it!
If you want to see larger pics for detail just send me your email address.
I have a line on picking up a mold for another figure...the "cannoneer"...pulling the lanyard/firing the cannon...will make that available, if I get it, at a special price for anyone that orders a cannon set!
I purchased these molds many years ago from a guy up in Oregon or Washington state...don't remember exactly which at the moment. :o(

[Bluehawk]

What happened...impressed but not enough to want a set? :what:

[ontarget]

Bluehawk Definitely interested but the discressionary funds are a little tight at the moment.
Had to pass up a .45 cal CVA front stuffer (dont know model) for 130.00 at the pawn shop today. Hope it stays put for a little while

[Bluehawk]

I know that feeling...being retired on SS (I'm only 59!!!)...I know what it feels like when money is tight...which is all the time! :banghead:
The CVA...rifle or revolver?

[Ratshooter]

Hey Bluehawk those tin soldiers are impressive. I used to have a neighbor that molded figures and other stuff. He was from England and must have been a popular modeler there. He said had cast a solid gold tank for king hussain of jordan. It was written up in model mags over there. He had two centrifuge machines and showed me how they worked and how he carved the rubber mold disk. I can't for the life of me remember his name though.

[scrat]

Are those cast from the Hard rubber molds. i tried it once could not get it right. When casting bullets you need to heat the mold to get the lead to flow right and fill the mold. When you poured the lead in the rubber mold it would cool quickly and harden up not filling out the mold. How did you get them to work correctly.

[Bluehawk]

You keep casting and casting and casting until at least one figure comes out right! :banghead:
The hardest thing to cast are spoked wheels...with the RTV rubber molds it's not too bad because you can drill tiny vent holes into it to help the alloy flow...the Napoleon cannon is a metal mold and although holes are drilled the spokes won't fill out anymore.
I spent over 3 hours (a week ago) constantly pouring/casting in the Napoleon mold and not one wheel was useable! :cuss:
The Parrott rifle mold is made from RTV...not exactly a soft mold...pretty tough mold, but you have to be careful with alloy temps so you don't burn it.

[ontarget]

Blue, the cva is a percussion rifle.

[Bluehawk]

Larger pics for detail:

[scrat]

i got to get my mold out again then. it was such a pain in the azzz 700 degree lead and rubber mold.

[Bluehawk]

Make sure ya lightly dust the insides of the mold with talcum powder...seems to help the flow and prevent sticking.

[qajaq59]

I remember making the tin soldiers out of plaster of paris , which was tough enough. But to do it with lead has to be a real bear to do. You patiences certainly outdoes mine. Sounds like a neat hobby though.

[Bluehawk]

The end results are worth the trouble...I don't think there are that many folks today making these on a "hand made" basis because of the patience required. I could be wrong though.
There are better alloys than WW's or linotype for casting these but it's too pricey...linotype captures all the fine details of the molds and that's good enough for me!

[scrat]

this is the stuff to get for casting soldiers.
http://www.rotometals.com/Pewter-Alloys-s/23.htm

[Bluehawk]

Scrat
Thanks...I know about and have cast with pewter in the past, and as you can see it's $13/pound vs. linotype $2.50/pound
I don't think anyone will want to pay 6 times the price for a pewter cannon and soldier!
Besides...not much nostalgia when you compare lead-tin soldier to the sound of "pewter soldier"!
On the other hand, if anyone wants a cannon set cast in pewter, I would be happy to do it with a 50% deposit.
Price would be $100/set (that's bare minimum what I could charge)