.380: Which would be a nice carry gun?


PDA






girl shooter
January 8, 2010, 04:42 PM
I traditionally carry a S&W 38 revolver. But I have a Sig Mosquito and a Taurus PT-22 pistol.

I was looking for a nice carry .380, that will not recoil too much. I tried a Ruger .380 at the range but it has a bit too much recoil. Is there a small .380 that does not recoil as bad as a Ruger?

Maybe one that is made of metal would be better for me. Weight is not a problem, It will be in my purse.

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rellascout
January 8, 2010, 04:44 PM
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/DSCF2034.jpg

Beretta 84FS

1KPerDay
January 8, 2010, 04:54 PM
If weight isn't a problem, get a 9mm or larger, IMO. Whatever quality brand pistol fits your hand and you shoot well. .380 is great for pocket guns, but if you've got the room, why not use a more effective caliber?

mesinge2
January 8, 2010, 05:15 PM
If your set on a .380 the Walther PPK/s is smallish and weighs enough to tame recoil.

112707

Also, the Bersa Thunder 380 (a copy of the PPK) is reliable and about half the cost of the Walther

112709

Girodin
January 8, 2010, 05:20 PM
The Mustang/Sig 238 is a better shooter with significantly less perceived recoil than the LCP, yet it is still rather small. The Sig is much less expensive than the Colt Mustang which is no longer made so it is the more logical choice. The Sig is easier to shoot well because it is slightly heavier, easier to get a firm grip on, and has much better sights. It is more expensive than the Ruger LCP but a nicer gun in lots of ways.

Another choice if size is really of no concern is the Bersa thunder .380. They are good reliable guns and not very expensive. They are very similar to the Walther PPK but roughly half the price. They are notably bigger than the above mentioned guns. If you want something that big then it might be worth looking at some 9mm pistols that are not much bigger to see how you like them.

For a small 380 that is a pleasure to shoot I would get a Sig 238. I have never shot the Kahr P380 and cannot comment on it but it is probably a product that is at least worth looking into.

http://www.pistolsandparts.com/images/P238-380-RG.jpg

dairycreek
January 8, 2010, 05:23 PM
If .380 is your ammo choice and recoil is of concern let me recommend a CZ 83 for your consideration. The pic is of my CZ 83 with its FIST #1 holster and, for me, it is simply an ideal carry combo. With double stack mags it offers a solid amount of ammo and is a dream to shoot because it is a little heavier and really tames recoil a lot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/dairycreek/CZ83FIST1-R.jpg

mesinge2
January 8, 2010, 05:27 PM
I have no experience with one and it is a bit pricey for a pocket pistol but the Micro Desert Eagle is smaller than the ruger and is all metal.

112710

MCgunner
January 8, 2010, 05:34 PM
http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=738&toggle=tp

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/738SS.jpg

It's not really a heavier gun than the LCP, though, but I want this thing. :D Stainless slide, slide lock on the last round, and everything I've read about it from people that bought it is positive.

For your purposes, I'd look at the Bersa, myself.

huntsman
January 8, 2010, 05:46 PM
380: Which would be a nice carry gun?

I carry a BDA but I have big hands, my second choice would be a SIG 232.

scoutsabout
January 8, 2010, 05:50 PM
+1000 on the Sig P238

Got one for the wife, and one for me, and ditched the two Ruger LCP's. We are extremely satisfied with the Sigs.

Guns and more
January 8, 2010, 06:09 PM
Girl, (may I call you by your first name?):
I'd agree with Girodin and look at the Sig 238. Mine is exactly like his picture (rosewood edition) but here's the best part: It's fun and easy to shoot. Recoil is minimum, way less than my Kahr PM-9 (a fine gun). The slide is easy to rack. (Unlike many small guns, Kahr included). Mine is totally reliable. I purchased additional magazines fromTop Gun Supply and they are identical to the stock.
It looks good.
I'd use a pocket holster that covers the trigger and safety, and keep it loaded.
I wish it were D/A, S/A but it is S/A only, so you decide; loaded with the safety on, or full magazine and I can rack the slide before I shoot.

I have a nice collection of firearms, and the baby Sig is my current favorite.

girl shooter
January 8, 2010, 07:00 PM
:o:o Thank you to everyone for your replies. I might get two, I like the sig (it looks like my son's defender) and the CZ 83.

I have never heard of the CZ 83, would a gun shop know how to order one?


And you can call me girl all you want ;)

Micro
January 8, 2010, 07:28 PM
I second the CZ83 recommendation. I have one and like it better than any Walther PPK/S I've owned.

It's all steel. So it has some weight. Recoil, though still snappy, is more manageable that with lighter blowback pistols.

It's a bit big for a .380. The upside is that it is extrmely comfortable to grip. The trigger is wide and smooth. You get good control of this pistol. Yet still small enough to easily conceal.

It holds a lot of ammo (14 rounds), and comes with a spare magazine.

It has nice, visible sights. There is some glowing paint on them so they are easier to see on low-light situations.

It disassembles very easily.

CZ's customer service is stellar.

CZ produces the best owners manuals. Lots of color cutaways, pictures, and clear instructions.

It's as accurate a .380 as you will find. Reliable, too.

And last, its inexpensive. You can get them brand new for around $400.

Here's mine...

Ghost Host
January 8, 2010, 07:32 PM
Girl Shooter,

You might want to qualify some of your requirements.

How many rounds do you expect the pistol to carry counting the one in the pipe? 5-8-10-13 + one in the pipe??
You indicated that weight is not a problem; what about size??
Type of trigger SA - DA - SA/DA??
Safety or safety/decocker??
Ability to have night sights added/up graded??
Chambered round indicator??
Fire or no fire with clip removed??
Is cost of significant importance?

Having asked the above, I will say that my CC is a Beretta M84FS 380/13 Nickel. The picture would be the same as rellascout's.
P.S.: It carries 14.

wishin
January 8, 2010, 07:40 PM
Check out this thread too. I was looking for a .380 for my wife recently.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=495717

schiesz
January 8, 2010, 07:43 PM
My wife got me a Sig 232 for our anniversary this year and I am extremely happy with it. I have shot one before, and was quite impressed with it compared to my other experience with 380; my Dad's Grendel. I always liked the grendel, but it had ridiculous recoil and was not very accurate (at 7 yrds, it would hold a 3-4 inch group, about 3 inches low and left of aim). The rental P232 I shot before had very mild recoil (it had the hogue grips) and seemed to be quite accurate. The one I now own can hold 6 inch groups at 25 yrds, 1.5 inch groups at 11 yrds, and gets single hole groups at 7 yrds if I am on my game. It is small enough to conceal fairly easily, but big enough to get my whole hand on (and I have very large hands). I think it is pretty ideal as far as smallish semi-auto handguns go. If you like the PPK, you might just like the P232 even more. If you want smaller, there are other options (like the P238) or if you want cheaper, there are other good ones (like the bersa) but I would definitely consider the P232 if I were looking for this type of gun. My wife made an incredibly good decision picking this one for me.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/schiesz/EDC%20items/th_DSC_0584.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/schiesz/EDC%20items/?action=view&current=DSC_0584.jpg)

Tooquick11
January 8, 2010, 08:03 PM
I own a kahr p380 and it is very light on recoil. Even with quality hollow points the recoil is more than manageable. My p380 goes everywhere with me (my xd is starting to get jealous). It is very well machined, fits the hand nicely, and extremely accurate.

mbr
January 8, 2010, 08:03 PM
The Bersa is often suggested as a best-buy .380.

6x6pinz
January 8, 2010, 08:54 PM
I would also suggest the new Walther PK380. A little larger but the recoil is almost non existent. My wife and daughter both shoot mine as one of their favorites and I am very impressed with the accuracy out of a pistol I picked up just for some fun shooting.

Still for a purse gun I almost always suggest a revolver, too much debris in a purse to guarantee an auto will operate correctly when needed.

Fisherman_48768
January 8, 2010, 09:10 PM
I'll also endorse the CZ82 but I'd go for the CZ83 in 9x18 mak round instead. Same gun and mag but the makarov round has a bit more punch. The CZ also has one of the highest round counts in a small pistol 12+1, ambi mag release and safety, double action with decocker/safety. http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a149/Fisherman_48768/CZ82LEFTSIDE.jpg

rellascout
January 8, 2010, 09:27 PM
Capacity is why I recommend the 84FS 13+1 in a very small very controllable package.

Blues Brother
January 8, 2010, 09:31 PM
Beretta, Browing BDA, and Ruger LCP are all great choices. the LCP is the best for concealed carry, but not much fun to shoot for target. its a SD gun and thats it.

jad0110
January 8, 2010, 11:44 PM
I have never heard of the CZ 83, would a gun shop know how to order one?

The very similar CZ 82 can usually be purchased through aimsurplus.com or J&G sales for between $169 and $220 (used). I believe the 82s are chambered in 9x19 Mak only, vs .380 in the 83s.

bigmike45
January 9, 2010, 07:08 AM
Well I never thought I would own a .380 handgun when I carry a 9mm that is smaller than some 380's, but the wife picked one up the other day that she really liked. Now she has shot my 9mm Browning Hi Power, didnt like it, my 9mm Para Ordnance Commander and didnt like it either. She really didnt like my PF-9 Keltec or my P-11 for how uncomfortable they are for her to shoot. She shoots her 2" SP-101 all day and is deadly with it, but wants a semi-auto as well. The Walther PK-380 fit her hand perfectly and she loved the trigger as well, especially the single action pull. I picked one up today for her for Christmas and am going to take it home and clean it up and head to the range as soon as the weather let's up.

My first impressions of the gun were actually better than I expected. I have never owned a Walther and have heard great things about the PPK's but this is not a PPK. The fit and finsh were done very well. I might look for a two tone for myself in the future. Everything works but I do not like having to use the key for slide removal. If it gets lost....well it won't be good. Might end up making a spare from aluminum. It disassembled and reassembled without any problems and it was easy to do so. I cleaned off the fired case residue wiped everything down and relubed the gun. The gun only came with one magazine, the one thing I dislike, but I was able to find a dealer with three new mags so I ordered them all. She likes to shoot but hates to load...LOL.

Well I was able to sneak to the range late this afternoon. It was foggy, getting dark, and beginning to actually rain....again. The temp was about 52 and the wind was blowing across from left to right at about 5-10mph. I know not ideal for a test but it's not supposed to get any better for the next couple of days, so here goes.

Since I bought the gun for my wife to qualify for her Texas CHL, I decided to follow the 7, 10 & 15 yard shooting ranges. The gun put 50 rounds downrange, loading 5 at a time as the procedure goes, without one single problem.

The single action pull was around 4lbs according to my tester. Double was around 10lbs. The sights were dead on but the gun shot a little high when aiming dead center the target at 7 yards. 10 and 15 yards is where the little gun was shooting to point of aim. I tried the safety several times and it is a hammer block system that stops the hammer before it makes contact with the firing pin. Works like a charm. One thing is the gun has no slide release button, so you have to perform the slingshot method, and you have to remove the empty mag to release it when empty. The slide locked back on every empty mag......very nice!!

I was using Winchester White Box 90gr FMJ which happend to be a flat point jacketed bullet. I was concerned about feeding but it fed like a charm. It ejected all the brass in a neat little circle just to my right, around 24" in diameter. I like that since I plan to reload them and hunting down brass in the dark is no fun. Recoil was almost non-existant which my wife will love. That is one of the things she hates with the 9's I have, but her SP-101 revolver, shooting 145gr Winchester Silvertips draws no complaints. I was able to keep most of the rounds within a 4" grouping and thats just fine for what it is going to be used for. I am sure under different weather conditions the group would be tightened up substantially, especially with her shooting.

I am really looking forward to seeing her face on Christmas morning when she opens the box with the gun she was really fond of in the gunstore. Here is the target and gun.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/PK380.jpg

71Commander
January 9, 2010, 09:29 AM
Sig P380 vs. the Kahr P380

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/tucker13/ksig-03.jpg

benderx4
January 9, 2010, 09:40 AM
If you want a true POCKET gun, there is none finer than the Seecamp LWS380. If you want an IWB gun with little recoil in 380 my recommendations are the Beretta Cheetah 85FS, the CZ 83, or the new Sig P380.

As a side note, my Walther PPK was one of the most uncomfortable guns I've ever shot, with the most felt recoil. The web of my hand is still scarred 3 years now after I sold the thing. Gorgeous gun, though.

usp9
January 9, 2010, 10:45 AM
Another alternative. The Sphinx AT380 is a easy recoiling pistol with a very smooth trigger and it's 100% ambidexterous. Can hold 11+1 in a very compact pistol.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/Pistols/SphinxAT380m.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/HoguehandallonSphinx.jpg

Here's one for sale...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=152889536

The many guns made in this calber make the choice hard, as there are many outstanding pistols available. Personally I rank the Beretta at the top, the Sig P232 just under and most every other below them in way or another. The good news is that it's hard to make a bad choice.

Good luck.

OldMac
January 9, 2010, 12:13 PM
+1 for the CZ83 in 380 for quality and weight that makes recoil light. Of course if you make that decision, then you might as well go with the CZ82 in 9mm Makarov. The CZ82 is the identical size/weight, 1/2 the price ($159 at CDNN) and more powerful. The biggest advantage for the 9x18Mak round is that it is readily available and inexpensive compared to 380 ammo. Yes, any dealer will know how and where to get one if they don't already have one.

harmon rabb
January 9, 2010, 12:47 PM
what's with this nonsense recommendation of a cz-83? why wouldn't you buy a cz-82, which fires a more powerful round (that you can actually find ammo for), is the same pistol otherwise, and is cheaper?

schiesz
January 9, 2010, 02:08 PM
If you want a true POCKET gun, there is none finer than the Seecamp LWS380. If you want an IWB gun with little recoil in 380 my recommendations are the Beretta Cheetah 85FS, the CZ 83, or the new Sig P380.

As a side note, my Walther PPK was one of the most uncomfortable guns I've ever shot, with the most felt recoil. The web of my hand is still scarred 3 years now after I sold the thing. Gorgeous gun, though.
This is true, the seacamp is the king, but if there are any budget constraints its probably out. The new Sig is the P238, not P380.

Guns and more
January 9, 2010, 02:24 PM
Sig P380 vs. the Kahr P380

WOW! They are the same. I thought the Kahr was smaller.
I love the baby Sig.

Jim PHL
January 9, 2010, 02:29 PM
I'm not crazy about .380 only because there are so many choices in 9mm in comparable sized guns.

For carry, it's hard to beat the size/weight of the Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec P3AT.

For a gun that's "carryable" but a little larger and heavier to make it a better shooter, I like the PPK, the Bersa or probably my #1 choice would be a Sig P232

PCFlorida
January 9, 2010, 03:28 PM
The CZ-82 is a great little gun, was my first C&R purchase in fact. Accurate and fun too shoot, but too big for pocket carry, weighs as much as my G29 in fact.

I just bought a Taurus 738 TCP and absolutely love it. Same weight as the Ruger or KT, with the addition of a slide lock. I've put a box of WWB ball through it so far, had 2 FTF on the 2nd mag and none since. It will need several hundred more through it before I'm ready to carry it though. It is made in the USA in a new Taurus factory in (I believe) Miami. Though the .380 is not an ideal caliber, the size and weight are ideal for the hot weather here when the outfit of the day is shorts and a t-shirt. The trigger is long like the LCP, but smooth and about 4 lbs all the way back. I actually did not think recoil was an issue at all, I have read that some people find the recoil on the LCP to be too much, I barely noticed it. We'll see how that opinion holds once I get the Buffalo Bore ammo I ordered the other day.

flyingdog
January 9, 2010, 03:56 PM
I love my Beretta 84, but would never carry it, it's too purdy. I've had it since 1982 and it looks NIB. Instead, I carry a Bersa 380CC. It shoots anything I feed it and if it gets nicked up, it won't matter. I payed $220 plus tax for it, used. Recoil is on par with my 9mm BHP.
http://i50.tinypic.com/3308i3d.jpg

sidheshooter
January 9, 2010, 06:20 PM
To continue with others here, there are (IMHO) two separate tiers of .380: what I call "full size" (which are still pretty small) and "micro" (as small as can be reasonably expected).

The obvious arguments against the first tier (also as above) are twofold: #1) there are now 9mms and 40s that are in the same size range and #2) a lot of them are straight blowback–which means that felt recoil can be stiffer than one would think. For example, the PPK in .380, to me, feels snappier than my alloy frame compact 9mms, as does my all-steel bersa 383.

Still, the guns can be pretty great, as mentioned above: Beretta 84/85/86, Browning's BDA version, Cz-83, Sig 232 (in both steel and alloy), PP/PPk and even the Bersa (I have two bersas, an old Beretta '34 and a PPK).

The second tier is hard to argue with, unless one just refuses to abide with the .380. These strike me as pretty usefull and this opinion is backed up by a lot here, to say nothing of sales figures. Exemplars include the above kel-tecs, the LCP, the sig P238, the Kahr P380, the micro eagle, the NAA guardian, the seecamp and a few that I'm forgetting.

I've been on a research tear of late, and based on owning a couple of, ahem, "full-size" blowbacks, and having shot the LCP and Kahr, I've boiled it down to either the Kahr or the Sig 238 for me; just about neck-and-neck. I'm told by folks that have shot both that the sig is the better handler. My only reservation on that is the condition-1 carry for your purse; that said, I'd give one a look.

The kahr, kel-tec/LCP and sig are all smaller in terms of height/length than the PT-22 (I've got one, as does my lady), FWIW

At this point, I'm leaning towards the kahr, but only because it is absolutely the lowest-profile of them all (not by very much though) and I like the way it shoots. I feel that it is a hair less snappy than the LCP, again, FWIW. Certainly no worse than my alloy Bersa, though the Bersa has a lot more to hold onto. I'd bet the Kahr would be a pussycat with the grip extension now available (maybe someone here knows for sure; the LCP owners seem to like their pearces...).

For your pleasure:
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_ah091009.html

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handguns/26885-four-380-s-compared-images.html

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1119974

T. Bracker
January 9, 2010, 07:06 PM
I was at a local gunshop today and handled the Kahr .380 for the first time. I have to say, for a micro gun, it is very nice. Feels good in the hand in spite of the short grips. Much better to me than the P3AT that I previously owned. That being said, Kahrs tend to fit my hand better than some other pistols and I carry a PM9 regularly.

jaro
January 9, 2010, 07:06 PM
Colt Mustang (not Pocket Lite), loaded with 6-shot mag, in pocket holster; co-carry 10-round magazine; all loaded with hot Corbon hollow points. It's a gun for close quarters. I train with all shots sighted to the head. Standard sighting if possible, but also train one-handed for trajectory from single-hand hold (my midline at sternum to target). You can get pretty accurate from midline up, down, left, and right out to six feet.

tomwalshco
January 9, 2010, 08:00 PM
A lot of great suggestions and I won't get into the manufacturer debate, but if you were my daughter/sister/wife I would suggest -

1) smooth, double action trigger - simplicity
2) physically sleek, without a bunch of knobs, safeties, levers, hammer, laser that could snag anything in your purse on the way out
3) look at 9mm, wider selection of models and ammo

harmon rabb
January 10, 2010, 09:17 AM
why is the sig 238 being lumped in with the "full size .380's? i've compared my boss's 238 side by side with my LCP and it's barely larger.

the 238 is a MUCH nicer shooting pistol. no contest. too bad it's SA only, i prefer to carry with one in the tube, DA, no safeties.

atomd
January 10, 2010, 09:37 AM
why is the sig 238 being lumped in with the "full size .380's? i've compared my boss's 238 side by side with my LCP and it's barely larger.

Because it weighs close to twice as much as an LCP and it's a good amount thicker too. It's just an entirely different thing in your pocket compared to the LCP/P3AT.

71Commander
January 10, 2010, 09:47 AM
Because it weighs close to twice as much as an LCP and it's a good amount thicker too. It's just an entirely different thing in your pocket compared to the LCP/P3AT.


You are mistaken on all accounts.

andrsnsm
January 10, 2010, 10:14 AM
The P238 is slightly larger and thicker than the LCP but not much. The P238 does weigh quite a bit more, about 7 oz, more than the LCP and is definitely not as comfortable in the pocket as an LCP. The P238 shoots a whole lot better than the LCP as the SAO trigger is wonderful compared to the long pull of the LCP trigger. For shooting the P238 blows the LCP away but the weight and DAO trigger make the LCP a great choice for pocket carry. I love my P238 but I can't see myself carrying it cocked and locked so it really isn't as good a choice for carry for me. I may actually sell my P238 and get an LCP.

Guns and more
January 10, 2010, 12:37 PM
may actually sell my P238 and get an LCP.
Blasphemy!

Actually, I may ADD an LCP as it's smaller, and I wouldn't care if it got nicked up.

CrashInBlack
January 10, 2010, 12:41 PM
I carry a Sig Sauer P230. It's accurate and easy to carry.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=153415383

CZ223
January 10, 2010, 01:25 PM
It is just about as small as the LCP but it definitely feels like a real gun. That said, I love my two LCPs and actually enjoy shooting them very much. I have put close to 300 rounds through one of them in one outing. The trigger is long but decent. I really do get a kick out of people who call them punishing, it escapes me. As for accuracy, it is more than sufficient. I can keep all shots the vital area when shot one handed with my off hand, quickly. It is a pocket gun, not a target gun. The sights are rudimentary at best but when taking my time I have been impressed with just how accurate it is. If the Sig 238 is as good as my Mustang used to be then it too will be surprisingly accurate. I will be getting one in the near future.

gmh1013
January 10, 2010, 01:54 PM
Didn't Sig have a recall on the P238 a few months ago?

rellascout
January 10, 2010, 01:57 PM
I do not want to disparage other peoples choices but the P238 Sig is not up to par with Sigs other offerings. It troubles me to hear so many people using it as a primary defense gun.

It is a gun which was built to a price point. It was made to be a cheap relative to the Colt Mustang. It is not anywhere near the quality in construction or materials as the rest of the Sig line.

Bruce Gray of Gray guns posted this on the Sig Forum. Bruce knows his Sigs. This is what he had to say about the P238.

Beyond that, the 238 is inarguably not in the same league with the classic P-series guns that made SIG Sauer's reputation, and I would encourage everyone to have a realistic set of expectations. These pistols are sold, and purchased, on price.

I'd conceal mine in a safe and carry a pistol instead.

OK, I'm sorry. That was a cheap shot but I simply couldn't help it. It's rare that I'm that nasty and don't wish to disillusion those who know me to be a famously nice guy, but I still just cannot fathom why SIG would copy the Pony/Mustang et al. If yours works, that's great...

Beyond that, the 238 is inarguably not in the same league with the classic P-series guns that made SIG Sauer's reputation, and I would encourage everyone to have a realistic set of expectations. These pistols are sold, and purchased, on price.

Getting your gun back with significant, avoidable damage during warranty repair would be upsetting no matter what it was, of course. My point is that the 238 is an FIE Titan is a Colt Mustang is a ".380 Mosquito", and not a P-series SIG or other best-quality service pistol. Perhaps just getting your 238 to function would seem to be their main priority and a 238 owner's main concern? If it can be made to function reliably you can hopefully make some use of it.

Gray Guns will not work on a P238 because they do not believe that they can make them 100% reliable as a carry gun. It is the one and only Sig product I have ever seen Bruce Gray bash.

-Bruce Gray

YMMV

Gun Geezer
January 10, 2010, 02:06 PM
You are mistaken on all accounts.
According to Bobo's charts:

LCP = 12 oz loaded x 5.16" OL x 3.16" OH x 0.82" OW
P238 = 18 oz loaed x 5.50 "OL x 3.90" OH x 1.10" OW

Maybe not twice as heavy, but it is 1.5 times as heavY.

atomd
January 10, 2010, 03:04 PM
You are mistaken on all accounts.

Nope.

Now for some stats
On the weight:
From Ruger.com - LCP: 9.40 ounces (with an empty magazine)

From sigsauer.com - P238 : Weight w/out Mag 15.2 oz

Add an empty mag to the P238 and how far off am I?
weighs close to twice as much as an LCP

You want to go and add the weight of that mag and tell me if they are closer to the same or closer to double? I'll bet on the latter.

It's pretty darn close to twice as much. Even if it were closer to 1 1/2 times the weight, that's still a LOT heavier when it comes to a mouse gun.

On the width. LCP is .82. Sig is 1.1. The Sig feels noticeably thicker in the front pocket of a pair of pants. It's a chunkier gun for sure. The edges aren't rounded off as much and it has sights that stick up more (I definitely prefer the sights on the Sig to the sights on the LCP). With guns this small and light, even a couple of ounces is a large overall % of the gun's weight. We're not comparing a 32oz gun with a 30oz gun here.

There's nothing wrong with the Sig. I actually like it as well as the Mustang...but it's not as small or light as an LCP any way you cut it. Sorry to say but you are mistaken on me being mistaken. ;)

camper
January 10, 2010, 06:14 PM
Any of these three will do you just fine. But, recommend you go out and find a range that rents handguns and get the one that feels best to you. Pictures, Khar P380 (bottom) & PM9 (top) as well as the P238. Felt recoil on all three is very light.
http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu139/NCcamper/Pistols/PM9P238P380-1.jpg

earlthegoat2
January 10, 2010, 06:17 PM
Beretta 84 or Bersa Thunder 380

WRGADog
January 10, 2010, 08:04 PM
Beretta 84F which is to big for CC IMO and the Kahr P380 which is about the same size as the LCP.

searcher451
January 10, 2010, 10:04 PM
It might be too soon to tell, but Big Mike is on to something with the report on the Walther/Umarex PK380. I was amazed at the little recoil that you experience with it, especially if you are used to shooting the PP or PPK models. It's definitely worth a look.

VA27
January 10, 2010, 10:40 PM
The Micro Desert Eagle is pretty nice. A little larger than the Seecamp, a little smaller than the LCP/P3AT/P380, about the same weight as an Airweight j-frame.

Ky Larry
January 10, 2010, 10:51 PM
Miss Shooter, the CZ's are very nice to shoot but they are built like a tank and are relatively heavy. As with most things in life, we make decisions and live with the trade offs. Your method of carry will probably be a major factor in your decision. Good luck.

cooks 7
January 10, 2010, 11:00 PM
Another vote for the Micro Desert Eagle, I like mine a great deal, pretty accurate for a tiny gun and very concealable, not real fun to shoot at the range but nothing that small is going to be. I like the feel of the all steel as well, they are quite a bit heavier than an LCP but it feels of a higher quality in my opinion.

CornCod
January 10, 2010, 11:42 PM
I carried my Bersa .380 Thunder for a few months before I went back to a snubby .38. The Bersa is a good, reliable handgun.

m2steven
January 11, 2010, 08:22 AM
I've 4 or 5 380's. I like the caliber and think the size and weight of these pistols is about perfect, from very small to nearly 9mm sized. I have the CZ-83 and it's pretty comfortable to shoot, holds about 13 rounds, and is fairly large for a 380. But it's fun to shoot at the range and won't beat your hands up.

For carry, the most easy to aim to target is my Walther PPK/s. It won't bother you to shoot it until it starts rubbing a raw spot in the webbing of your hand as someone pointed out. You'd have no trouble with control in a bad situation.

The very same can be said for the Bersa Thunder 380. It's however a joy to shoot at the range and is highly accurate and you can shoot hundreds of rounds with pleasure.

I have a 9x18 makarov which is dead reliable and ammo is plenty and cheap. Nice looking pistol too.

Probably the 380 I've shot which I liked the best is the SIG 232. It's a great size and is a terrific range gun. It just might be the best of the caliber.

I can say with almost certainty if you got the Bersa, you would be happy. It's a great fit to the hand and is wonderful fun to shoot. Plus, it's the least expensive without lacking quality.

ultradoc
January 11, 2010, 08:36 AM
bersa!!

NMGonzo
January 11, 2010, 11:09 AM
My girlfriend, who is not even a regular shooter or anything like that, shoots my Bersa just as well as I do.

Constant center of mass and headshots on silhouette, even rushing through the magazine because she is cold and wants to get back to the car.

She has what I call "lemur hands', very slim and fine fingers. Her follow up shots are just as quick as mine. I have chimpanzee xxxl hands.

I have a 1911, compact H&k, revolvers in all sizes et all and the bersa always finds it's way out of the safe and in my waistband or coat pocket.

People will tell you that .380 are marginal for self defense, but some don't remember that WWI started with two letal wounds of .380.

19 year old kid, probably 120 pounds was the assassin.

NMGonzo
January 11, 2010, 11:11 AM
I carried my Bersa .380 Thunder for a few months before I went back to a snubby .38. The Bersa is a good, reliable handgun.

Funny thing, shooting my snubby 357 and the bersa back to back at the range I figured out that ..... I don't want to be shot with neither of them.

Mr. Whimsy
January 11, 2010, 02:34 PM
Actually I think the WWI gun was a .32, which is even more impressive.

I can vouch for the Beretta 84 and S&W manufactured Walther PPK. The Beretta is the most reliable gun I've ever owned and will feed nasty underpowered reloads that will make my Walther choke. With quality ammo however the Walther is a joy to shoot due to its weight.

There is such a thing as too little, too light in this caliber. Some reports I've read say the LCP kicks like an angry mule, but each to his own. I find heavier guns easier to control but still small enough to carry.

As for the caliber, skin is elastic and larger more powerful rounds make wounds indistinguishable from the 9mm bore size by the pathologist. A 9mm will shoot straighter through the human body, but I have found the ".380 - sized 9mm's" people drone on about have some pretty serious recoil.

Get a gun that fits your hand and don't look back.

NinjaFeint
January 11, 2010, 03:47 PM
I personally would not buy anything bigger than a LCP/Kahr380/Taurus TCP/Kel-Tec P3AT in .380 caliber. I would rather carry 9mm if I am not getting a tiny gun. Also the recoil on the PM9 is not really bad. The muzzle jumps but it easy to get back on target and is not painful. The PF9 is less comfortable due to the grip style and the P11 isn't bad if you want a double stack on a budget.

MTS840
January 11, 2010, 08:34 PM
People will tell you that .380 are marginal for self defense, but some don't remember that WWI started with two letal wounds of .380.

http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Gavrilo:Princip.html

The gun used by Princip was a Browning M 1910 semi-automatic pistol in 7.6517mm (.32 ACP) caliber. It was recently found and recovered in the home of an Austrian Jesuit family, and is now in display at the Vienna Museum of Military History . The second bullet fired by Princip, killing Ferdinand, is stored as a museum exhibit in the Konopište Castle in the town of Konopište , Czech Republic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Pistols/browning1910.jpg

19-3Ben
January 11, 2010, 08:47 PM
I use .380acp with no qualms, but let's put things in perspective.
People 100 years ago were significantly smaller than they are now. I can't find specifics on a quick search, but all accounts of Franz Ferdinand are that he and his wife were small people. When you have 'smaller game,' you can use a lesser caliber to kill it. I don't want to count on the bad guy in the ally being a small guy. I want to be prepared for the guy who is 6'5" and 280lbs.

I'm not saying that .380 is not effective in modern SD usage. It is. I'm just saying that the measure of "this caliber was used effectively to kill people 100 years ago" is not really valid.

NMGonzo
January 11, 2010, 09:25 PM
well ... there you go.

32 acp was plenty then

Go Princip!

NMGonzo
January 11, 2010, 09:56 PM
I use .380acp with no qualms, but let's put things in perspective.
.... . I want to be prepared for the guy who is 6'5" and 280lbs.
.

I bet you can outrun someone that big.

The_Shootist
January 11, 2010, 11:22 PM
I like the Beretta 84 - but then again I'm biased as I have a Beretta 87 (ie the .22 model)
which is a REAL nice semi. The only problem is justifying it. It wouldn't be a great deal easier to conceal than my G19 and with the Glock I get a more potent cartridge and a higher capacity. Indeed - I have a Bulgy Mak thats scarily accurate, fires a beefier cartridge(thats widely available now too - grins) and is rock solid reliable.

The only reason for the purchase would be to add a different flavour to my collection and for that I might go upscale and get a SIG P232 rather than budget with a CZ 83.

JLtZD
January 12, 2010, 03:27 AM
+1 for the Beretta, my wife has the model with the pop-up barrel and it is a fun gun to shoot.

harmon rabb
January 12, 2010, 05:59 AM
I want to be prepared for the guy who is 6'5" and 280lbs.

shoot him in the right place with a .22 and he's dead, instantly. from all accounts i've read of police shootings, don't trust ANY handgun caliber to put a guy down instantly unless you hit something vital.

harmon rabb
January 12, 2010, 06:04 AM
I personally would not buy anything bigger than a LCP/Kahr380/Taurus TCP/Kel-Tec P3AT in .380 caliber.

I bought my bersa off a buddy who carried it for a while. I said the same things you did. I didn't get why he'd bother carrying such a larger pistol than my lcp to only gain one round of capacity.

Then I bought the bersa from him when he upgraded to a kahr .40 and took it out to the range along with my lcp. At 15yds, my groupings were very poor with the lcp, as usual (really, anything beyond 7yds, and i suck with the lcp). With the bersa, my groups at 15yds were very tight... At this point, I realized that perhaps my buddy was smarter than I.

silent flatulence
January 12, 2010, 06:13 AM
I have to disagree with the folks that say the ruger lcp "kicks like a mule."
For comparison, I have a glock 27 (compact .40) which I found to kick more than I cared for, so I converted it to 9mm. But the lcp hardly kicks AT ALL for me. But then again, I'm 6 foot 2, 195#s and doubletake pretty. So your mileage may vary.

harmon rabb
January 12, 2010, 06:18 AM
mr. sbd, you think the lcp hardly kicks at all? are you also one of the folks who claims that .357 out of j-frame is perfectly comfortable? ;)

my issue with the lcp is that, even with the finger extensions on the mags, the darn thing tries to jump out of my hand. i think that's why people say it kicks so badly. btw, being a bigger guy would make it worse i'd think, as your hands are larger. a buddy of mine is about your size, fired my lcp, and instantly HATED it.

WRGADog
January 12, 2010, 10:04 PM
my recommendation is Kahr P380. Recoil is very mild IMO.

wrench
January 13, 2010, 12:34 AM
I'm a 5'2" female, and I don't think the LCP is bad to shoot, at all.
That said, the only time I carry mine, is when I absolutely can't carry anything bigger.
If I have a choice, I'll carry a Glock 26 or 19, or one of my favorites-a S&W CS9.

Ala Dan
January 13, 2010, 01:19 AM
I like my KEL-TEC P3AT .380, inexpensive, 15 yard accuracy w/ a full
magazine in the X-ring of a standard B-27 target, and nairy a problem
with this little gem. Second place goes to my Bersa Thunder duo-tone,
and the same comments apply~! ;) :D

harmon rabb
January 13, 2010, 06:04 AM
I'm a 5'2" female, and I don't think the LCP is bad to shoot, at all.

You're lending credence to my theory that my issue with the LCP is my inability to fit enough fingers around the grip. As a 5'2" woman, your hands are no doubt a good bit smaller than mine..

TexasBill
January 13, 2010, 02:26 PM
Walther PK380 or Beretta 84FS or 85 with bit of a nod to the PK380. Both guns are easy to shoot, but the PK380 is lighter and more compact. It gives up five rounds to the Beretta but nine rounds is likely to be more than enough for SD.

My wife has a Browning BDA .380 which she loves.

Take a PK380, or a Beretta, or a Bersa .380 or a SIG P232 and an LCP to the range. Put a box (50 rounds) of identical ammunition through each. Remind yourself this is self-defense, not self-abuse and realize you're going to need to put a few hundred rounds of ammo through whichever you select so that you're comfortable with it and can shoot it accurately.

The LCP, as I have said before is too little gun for the round. Not enough bulk or weight to be a suitable primary self-defense weapon. You've got to have a gun that will get you back on target for follow-up shots which you are likely to need, no matter what caliber handgun you have.

Guns and more
January 13, 2010, 02:27 PM
On the width. LCP is .82. Sig is 1.1. The Sig feels noticeably thicker in the front pocket of a pair of pants.
Wow! 1.1 in thick. I found that so hard to believe, I looked it up. You are correct. It sure doesn't feel that thick. I have a CZ Rami that I think is way too thick. I looked it up and it's 1.3 inches. I would have sworn on a stack of bibles that the Sig was HALF the thickness of the Rami.
I guess that shows that there's more to the feel than the cold hard numbers.

MICHAEL T
January 13, 2010, 02:36 PM
The Mustang/Sig 238 is a better shooter with significantly less perceived recoil than the LCP, yet it is still rather small. The Sig is much less expensive than the Colt Mustang which is no longer made so it is the more logical choice. The Sig is easier to shoot well because it is slightly heavier, easier to get a firm grip on, and has much better sights. It is more expensive than the Ruger LCP but a nicer gun in lots of ways.


I agree with the above Shooting my Mustang with Corbon is almost like shooting a 22 compared to my PPK/S, Bersa, P3AT KelTec The SIG is a clone and should be just as nice
I go with the SIG as is small enough to carry other ways than a purse That isn't best way to carry

NinjaFeint
January 13, 2010, 04:02 PM
You're lending credence to my theory that my issue with the LCP is my inability to fit enough fingers around the grip. As a 5'2" woman, your hands are no doubt a good bit smaller than mine..
I have the hands of a 5'2" woman and have no issues with it. Your theory may be correct.

wolfe47374
January 13, 2010, 04:39 PM
My wife loves our CZ-83. She shoots very well with it. (She's 5'2", and quite petite) I just bought a Beretta 84, but have not had the time to test it out yet. She likes the looks and feel of the Beretta, so as soon as we get to the range, I'll let you know her opinion of it.

19-3Ben
January 13, 2010, 06:18 PM
I bet you can outrun someone that big.

I am a trail runner, and amateur bicycle racer (yes, one of those guys in lycra shorts) so I have no doubt that I am in shape to outrun most bad guys. But that's irrelevant here. Regardless of caliber, the gun is for when you don't have that option.

shoot him in the right place with a .22 and he's dead, instantly. from all accounts i've read of police shootings, don't trust ANY handgun caliber to put a guy down instantly unless you hit something vital.

So then why not carry a .22 for SD? You know why. It's because you want to want to have some margin of error. I'm no Rob Leatham. I'm certainly proficient, but let's face it, I want to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. .40S&W undeniably gives more fudge factor than a .380. I don't trust it to stop a bad guy 100% of the time. but I don't think anyone is going to say that it doesn't stand a better chance than a .380.

Now I'll say it again. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH USING .380 FOR SD. My problem is that the larger guns like a P232, or Bersa, or the Beretta are too big for the round these days. That's my problem. I have a hard time rationalizing carrying the larger .380 guns. On the other hand there is massive caliber/gun ratio for something like an LCP, Kahr P380, or P3AT.

wrench
January 14, 2010, 12:25 AM
I think perceived recoil has a LOT to do with how a pistol fits ones hands.
harmon rabb has it right, as I can get a lot of hand on that little LCP, and it doesn't bother me to shoot it at all.
Now a S&W 642, on the other hand, I hated with a vengeance, terrible recoil, I believe because it just didn't fit my hands.

harmon rabb
January 14, 2010, 06:18 AM
So then why not carry a .22 for SD? You know why. It's because you want to want to have some margin of error. I'm no Rob Leatham. I'm certainly proficient, but let's face it, I want to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. .40S&W undeniably gives more fudge factor than a .380. I don't trust it to stop a bad guy 100% of the time. but I don't think anyone is going to say that it doesn't stand a better chance than a .380.

okay okay i'll stfu :o


Now I'll say it again. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH USING .380 FOR SD. My problem is that the larger guns like a P232, or Bersa, or the Beretta are too big for the round these days. That's my problem. I have a hard time rationalizing carrying the larger .380 guns. On the other hand there is massive caliber/gun ratio for something like an LCP, Kahr P380, or P3AT.

the Bersa is lighter than other larger caliber guns of its size, conceals very easily and comfortably iwb... and is far more accurate than the pocket 380's. it's also dirt cheap. i can see why one would carry it.

have you fired a sig 238? i think that's the perfect tradeoff for a 380. small enough to still fit in your pocket, large and heavy enough (with real sights) to actually be accurate. unfortunately it's SA only (i don't want to have to remember anything in a self defense situation other than to pull the trigger).

chriske
January 14, 2010, 08:51 AM
Walther PPK if proven to be 100 % reliable (which mine isn't : failure to feed once in 2 dozen - factory- rounds or so)

chriske
January 14, 2010, 09:00 AM
Only just now checked out the other reactions : check out n 64 by MTS840 :
I own just such a 1910-type Browning in .32 ACP, made by FN.

I love the looks of it (I'm a sucker for old-fashion handguns), it handles pretty well, has never ever failed to function and although the sights are all but non-existant, it points well enough to give credible close range (5 to 7 meters) hits.
Always wanted one in .380

j21blackjack
January 14, 2010, 10:07 AM
+1 for the Sig P238 or the P3at. It really depends on what you want and what gun you can shoot well. I would bet good money you will be more accurate with the SA 238 than with the heavy DAO of the P3at, but you might not want to carry a SA pocket gun. I've owned both, and would buy another Sig before anything else. I just hated the trigger and recoil of the P3at. First time at the range it ripped a hole in my trigger finger! Don't let these guys scare you away from the 238, believe me, it's not heavy by any measure. As for being 1.1" thick, it sure feels thinner than that, I'll get my calipers out and check it.

girl shooter
February 11, 2010, 06:37 PM
I got the CZ 82 in 9mm Mak. I did not know that was different than a regular 9mm.

I could not find ammo for it, but my son has a Makarov PM and gave me some wolf ammo for practice and some Hornady rounds for carry.

Thanks, everyone. :)

CYANIDEGENOCIDE
February 11, 2010, 07:43 PM
Excellent choice! the 9x18 is, in my opinion, the best kept secret among carry calibers

mesinge2
February 11, 2010, 09:46 PM
The 9mm Mak is a good choice, better than a .380, and there is great defensive ammo for it.

labhound
February 11, 2010, 10:28 PM
Wife has a Beretta Cheetah 85 .380 and I have a CZ 83 .380. Both are excellent pistols, low recoil due to their weight and very accurate. Either is a good choice depending on which one fits your hand best.

gundog2010
March 3, 2010, 09:57 PM
Hi Girl,

Aimsurplus (among others online) has the 9x18 ammo...

http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=45


AmmunitionToGo also has the 9x18 Makarov:
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php/cName/9x18-makarov-fmj-ammo


One word about the Wolf or Silver Bear ammo... its cheap (yes)... it shoots (yes) but some folks consider this ammo a bit dirty for their guns... with that CZ, you should be able to shoot anything you like in it... and ask around for more opinions and pointers about Wolf & Silver Bear ammo... you'll recognize it quick 'cause it usually comes in a steel cased cartridge, not brass...

Some of that kind of stuff is personal preference... then some of the stuff is opinion based on use and fact...

Of the ammo on the AmmunitionToGo page, I have used the Fiocchi (brand) ammo, with great results. It is a good factory ammo, and has a good pop (powder charge)... at least it does in my 9mm Luger rounds...

I am currently in a discussion with a fellow who has a CZ-83 (.380ACP) for sale. The asking price is right, I'm just waiting for Uncle Sam to send me my tax refund so I can buy the pistol from him.

As far as opinions on a .380 for folks who might read this thread later... I had a Sig P232 a while back. I didn't like it, because if you shoot (say) 100-200 rounds through it, it would start to jam the heel of my hand with a pretty good slam. The design of the Sig P232 is that the barrel is attached to the frame (I'm thionking the CZ-83 is also like this, but a heavier pistol...) so, at dis-assembly (when cleaning) the slide slips off, and the barrel is not loose in your hand like some other pistols. I discussed this with another gun friend, and we decided the ouchy recoil was due to the design of the pistol, the barrel attached to the frame, and that it was a fairly light pistol, which sends the recoil energy right down into the heel of your hand. I sold it, I didn't like it, it wasn't for me for that reason.

I have also learned by experience that the fit of a pistol in my hand increases my targeting and trigger setup for better results downrange. For example, I had a Glock 21 in .45ACP for a while. My accuracy was lacking with that pistol, because it has a fairly large grip.

Later I discovered the Magnum Research (Israeli Military Industries) Baby Eagle series of pistols. Wow. The fit to my hand was perfect, as if these folks had used my hand to design the pistol. I now have a 9mm and a .45ACP in this brand of pistol. (Similar to a CZ-75, etc. in design from what I have read...)

My accuracy, on the first day at the range with my Baby Eagle 9mm, and Fiocchi ammo, was the best I have ever shot in my life. Ammo does make a difference, but in my experience, it was how the pistol fit in my hand. When I am putting a pistol in my hand the first time, I have a little test that works for me. If my thumb can touch my index finger and overlap by about 1/2", I have a pistol I can shoot very accurately. That is the grip I have on both the 9mm and the .45ACP Baby Eagle pistols. Even with a double-stack 10rd. mag, in .45ACP caliber, the Baby Eagle fits like a glove... I swear by this method, and I would trust it to my life in a self-defense situation.

Other pistols, which do not fit my hand, do not fair as well on the first day to the range. And, they tend to need some sort of compensation on my part to gain any kind of acceptable accuracy. To me, accuracy with a pistol is everything. Even if it is just used to throw bullets down range while you run to get a shotgun or rifle, if accurate, it is useful for more than just pistol whipping somebody, or looking good in a hoslter at the range 'cause you bought a "Rolls Royce" for the sake of bragging rights, but in a high-stress, self-defense scenario, the Rolls Royce and no accuracy could cost you your life, or the life of one of your loved ones.

My 2 cents on handgun fit to the user.

Congrats on the CZ-82... lot's of them in service, therefore lot's of parts out there, and is you ever want a second one, lot's of them in the surplus market, too (fairly cheap on the AimSurplus page, etc...)

Now take her to the range, give her a name (I name all my weapons, lol), and have a BLAST (literally...)

GD2010

girl shooter
March 3, 2010, 10:11 PM
First grouping with it.
It is a little heavy for my purse, but I can hit what I shoot with at rather well.
I am very happy with my choice. :)

I also had fun with my Sig mosquito. I figure its a 22 aim for the head for maximum effect. :D

116915
116916

gundog2010
March 3, 2010, 10:25 PM
With that .22LR, aim for the eye (and hope it doesn't glance off the skull) or the neck (hit the juggler vein). Or empty the clip into the bad guy's/bad girl's abdomen...

Nice grouping on those targets for the first time out. To me, the first time experience (in my preference) tells me that I will be doing pretty good if I need to defend myself with the weapon.

mesinge2
March 3, 2010, 10:25 PM
Nice grouping with the CZ, I prefer the 9x18. It is the secret of the 9mm rounds.

Manufacturers should make pocket pistols in this chambering instead of the .380.

Willfully Armed
March 3, 2010, 10:28 PM
Sig P238

gundog2010
March 3, 2010, 10:31 PM
Here's a YouTube video that shows how to break down your pistol for cleaning, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMtJRn5myUY

This video shows a CZ-83, but the CZ-82 breaks down the same exact way.

girl shooter
March 3, 2010, 11:41 PM
Thanks for the confidence in my shooting, I try to aim for the head this way they hard a hard time finding me.

I have found that the gun has to fit perfectly in my hand to shoot well also. Thanks, for the video.

mesinge2
March 3, 2010, 11:44 PM
It strips very similar to a Walther in that video, is it a clone?

IMTHDUKE
March 4, 2010, 12:30 AM
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996561662.jpg
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996573188.jpg
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996587559.jpg

saturno_v
March 4, 2010, 12:34 AM
19-3 Ben

I totally agree with you...we discussed this topic several time on THR...the reasons why people would buy a 380 Auto nowdays for carry use, unless they suffer from extreme recoil sensitivity/very small frame individuals, are beyond me.

Ammo is even more expensive and more difficult to find than 9mm..

Yes a 22 pistol is better than nothing, but like you said, I want to be a bit more prepared if I have to face a very big, gym bound guy, potentially high on drugs and with heavy winter clothing (basically the worse case scenario in an urban situation) and nowdays you can do that without paying any price (size and cost) compared to a quality 380.

In my case, my pocket carry is my trusty P-11 loaded with 12+1 9mm 124 gr, +P hollow point.....still not a 100% guaranteed BG stopper of course but at least double the energy and a heavier bullet than a 380...I do not feel much undergunned.

If you want even more in the same size you can get a Kahr in 40 or 45 but you lose 50% mag capacity or more.

That said, an excellent 380 for the money is the Bersa Thunder...around here they sell like hotcakes.

huntsman
March 4, 2010, 08:26 AM
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996561662.jpg
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996573188.jpg
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996587559.jpg
Now I really suffer from .380 envy, especially the seecamp;)

KevinR
March 4, 2010, 05:11 PM
one vote for the SIG 232

golden
March 4, 2010, 05:19 PM
I like the BERETTA 84 and have shoot it more than any other .380ACP I own. If you want an easy to control gun, with good sights, absolute reliability (most of the pocket pistols lack the reliability of a full size gun), nice trigger and large capacity with a 13 shot magazine, this is it.

The only real negative is that it is big for a .380ACP. I own 9m.m. and .45ACP of similar or smaller size pistols.

Jim

IMTHDUKE
March 4, 2010, 09:33 PM
The Seecamp is my fav for pick up and carry and never know it there, but you at least have a 380 with you at all times.

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