Is the P7 all it's been cracked up to be?


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mike4guns
January 8, 2010, 09:52 PM
Realizing full well that H&K is a top shelf quality firearm and having not owned one ever ,I was able to help someone out in his time of need and take a grade A ,p7 psp ,saxony police trade in off him for a very fair price. Lets put it this way , "he needed the instant cash badly".
The pristine 9mm came with a brand new mag in it's grip and 3 more new 8rd'ers in the original H&K packaging. After reading the prices and demand for these guns and mags i now realize i got an amazing deal and feel much worse for the guy having to let it go so low.
I tested it's salt at the range with a box of winch white box 147grain hp's and it seems either i had a lucky hand that day or they are as accurate as they are known to be. I think the later. Obviously with a little help from me the stiff ,little 9mm left 3 or 4 ragged holes on the paper from the one box of ammo. So i guess i'm answering my own question in the title of this post but i wonder if there are any cons associated with this little ,purple 9.
I'm mainly a glock and sig fan so i don't see myself going out to buy any other H&K's anytime soon , mainly due to the high price they carry . I've been more than happy with my small gathering of sigs and glocks with a few old S&W revo's which i also love very much. I will keep this P7 because it's an easy gun to like. My wife also enjoyed using it that day at the range. It's definately a novelty item for me with it's unusual squeeze grip safety and it's little rod that pops out of the back of the slide upon trigger engage. However i definately do not need the 3 extra mags if i'm going to store it and pass it down to my son. One mag in the gun is going to have to be unique enough for him. Without a classified section here i guess a PM would be sufficient if anyone is interested in 3 br new mags in thier factory packaging. They go as all 3 or nothing. I would still be surprised to hear there is anything profoundly wrong with this unique H&K design in that it would cause me to want to sell the gun. Aside from the heat transmitted down into the trigger area from repeated firing. I just don't plan on firing the gun anymore. It's just to cool. 60. ea. PM me.

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rodregier
January 8, 2010, 09:56 PM
If you're serious about passing it on it's recipient would appreciate having the extra magazines. They will be really hard to find later...

mike4guns
January 8, 2010, 10:11 PM
They are just of no use to me. Collecting the actual gun is one thing .Collecting the mags I could do without but in a broader sense your not entirely wrong.

atblis
January 8, 2010, 10:17 PM
Keep at least one extra mag. I'd keep them all.

taliv
January 8, 2010, 10:27 PM
some of the P7s are worth a lot more than others. iirc, there were a ton of them recently dumped on the market via police trade-in or something through cdnn. those aren't worth much.

but it is a cool little gun and easy to shoot, despite what looks like an awkward grip

mm6mm6
January 8, 2010, 11:09 PM
I wanted a P7 ever since I first saw one in a magazine in high school. That was in the early 1980's. I could never afford one until the CDNN police trade in guns arrived. I prefer the original P7 with the heel magazine release over the P7 M8. I bought an A-Grade for a very good price in the original serial numbered plastic box.

I've shot the gun in competion and I absolutely love everything about it except the extreme heat generated by the gas system.

So I just learned to wear Band-Aids on my trigger finger before I shoot.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/mm6mm6/P7003.jpg

Runningman
January 8, 2010, 11:18 PM
So i guess i'm answering my own question in the title of this post but i wonder if there are any cons associated with this little ,purple 9.
Hate to tell you but original P7 are black. If it has a purple shade on the slide it has been refinished. Typical of many European police trade in. Because they regrind the slide to take old department name off. A refinished P7 should not be called pristine. Just shoot it and enjoy it for what it is.

tank mechanic
January 8, 2010, 11:33 PM
Please do not sell those magazines if you are going to pass the gun down to your son. Even if one magazine suits your purposes for it, your son might like to shoot it a lot and those extra mags will come in handy.

Fremmer
January 9, 2010, 12:06 AM
Keep all of the mags. You want to pass them with the gun. One mag is not enough. For example, when your son accidently drops the mag on the ground and steps on it (mashing it into a pancake), he'll need another. And you always want at least 2 mags with a gun.

mike4guns
January 9, 2010, 12:29 AM
Those are all valid ,strong arguments for keeping the 4 mags together but i know i will never fire it again and my son who came out of the academy and has since then never used anything but sigs and will never carry it(the p7) nor use it. I'm sure anyone would enjoy owning one in a collection though. It would be only for thier value which is not so grand if they remain with the gun which is not a bad thing either but if i know my sig minded son ,he'll never give up his beloved 226 with a bu 239. Actually i don't blame him. I carried sigs before glocks caputed my heart also. Just cant beat the durable endurance of a glock.Mine have prooven themselves truly unbelievable. I have a g21 i have'nt cleaned for 3000 rds and is firing straight as a laser. Ya can't do that with a p7.lol You can however hit someone on the head and knock them out with it's weight if it gets to dirty to fire. Or to hot. Yes , a very cool , odd pistol indeed. I don't love it or hate it. I'm just gonna collect it.
This p7 is ceratinly a hair within 100% condition.' Pristine' just about sums it up well.

steveracer
January 9, 2010, 12:59 AM
I wanted one real bad until I had one. I sold it in a week. They aren't for everyone.

alienbogey
January 9, 2010, 01:09 AM
<<Hate to tell you but original P7 are black. If it has a purple shade on the slide it has been refinished.>>

Incorrect.

They started out blue/black and over time some will develop that purple tint. They are known as 'plum slides' and have to do with the metallurgy.

I had a P7 slide break and it was replaced by HK with a new-old-stock, never been issued or fired slide, and it has a nice plum patina.

I bought one P7 just because it had the 'plummest' slide I'd yet seen.

nwilliams
January 9, 2010, 02:09 AM
Is the P7 all it's been cracked up to be?
IMO, yes

I picked one up before Christmas and I absolutely love it. It's by far the most accurate handgun I have ever owned or fired, and this comes from someone who owns two Walther P88's.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/HKP7-2.jpg

David E
January 9, 2010, 02:17 AM
If it's to be a serious gun, buy two. That way, one can cool while you're shooting the other one.

Sapper771
January 9, 2010, 05:44 AM
As said before.....Keep the magazines! They are not cheap, and one can always use spare magazines(even if you think you dont need them, there may come a time when you will).
To your original question, IMO yes the P7 is an excellent pistol. I didnt know what to really expect when I got mine. I saw a few here and there, got bored one night and did some research on them and found them to be very interesting. I was at a gunshop and saw that they had two and I bought one of them. I got it home and went straight to the range. I was very impressed with the P7s handling and accuracy. I liked it so much that I started carrying it as my back up gun. The squeeze cocker takes a little to get use to, but it isnt anything major. I am not a big fan of the USP line of pistols , but I love this little P7.

usp9
January 9, 2010, 06:50 AM
Hate to tell you but original P7 are black. If it has a purple shade on the slide it has been refinished.

alienbogey is correct. If the slide is plum then that means it has not been refinished. Many of the really black ones and definitely the silver slide police trade ins have been refinished.

As to the mags...keep at least one extra. In the past, before the Saxony trades hit the market, magazines were very hard to find, and they aren't making any more. The mags may be a better investment than the gun.

LancerMW
January 9, 2010, 08:59 AM
i personally dislike "most" H&Ks they are overpriced XD's IMO, i perfer 1911's and BHP's even Glocks, that being said i own a P7

gc70
January 9, 2010, 09:03 AM
but if i know my sig minded son ,he'll never give up his beloved 226 with a bu 239

As previously noted, the P7 is not for everyone. As a Sig guy, the P7 replaced the P239 as my EDC. And my son (a Glock Advanced Armorer) often carries a P7.

benderx4
January 9, 2010, 09:22 AM
Hate to tell you but original P7 are black. If it has a purple shade on the slide it has been refinished.

As stated, incorrect. The plum slide is, indeed, proof that you have an original, non-refinished slide in near "pristine" condition. CDNN liked to put a "T25" nickel-looking finish on the police trade-ins and sell them as "two-tones". There was another large seller putting a Black-T like refinish on the slide that was close to the original bluing. Basically, back in the day when these were made, the metallurgy used in the HK slide was so hard that the bluing process would turn a purplish color over the years.

Who is the importer on your specific P7? What is the date code? What other rollmarks are on the right forward part of the slide? I'm also an avid fan of these amazing guns, and although I'd love to take the additional mags off your hands, (they are hard to find), I agree with the others that they belong with the gun. I KNOW your son will appreciate it someday. I would.

BTW, if you enjoyed shooting it, and your wife enjoyed shooting it, why do you plan on throwing it in the back of the safe? Just curious. I carry a P7, and whenever I head to the range, at least one P7, P7M8, and/or a P7M13 comes with me too. It was the interesting manual or arms and incredible accuracy/reliability/safety/trigger of these compact P7s that resulted in all my Sigs magically turning into HKs. :)

Congrats on your purchase and happy shooting!

rellascout
January 9, 2010, 11:13 AM
It sounds to me like this is one of the recent Saxony imports. They were selling for as low as $500 at one time for grade b guns. IIRC I paid $550 for my A.

They are no longer coming into the country and are not being made anymore. The recent Saxony PSP IMHO are the least collectible of the P7s on the market. They are the most plentiful and where sold at the lowest price point to begin with.

If you are looking for a true collectible, which is not my thing, you need to look for a commerical P7 M8 or P7 M13. These will run you a lot more than you paid for the P7 you own now.

You should shoot this gun. I doubt you will wear it out in your lifetime of your sons. They are built like tanks. I am not saying go out and shoot 1000 rounds out of it every week by why not shoot a gun you liked shooting?

You can get $150 for the mags now but you will regret it later. The longer you hold them the more you can get for them as more and more of these go out of service. 5 years from now they will be worth more. IHMO there is no need to sell them. As a package they will mean more and be worth more they day you give it to your son.

Again though I stress that these are not really collector guns at this point in time. They are shooters. You should shoot yours.

jon_in_wv
January 9, 2010, 11:34 AM
In my opinion the Saxony PSPs are a better investment than the P7 M8s or the M7p13. You can buy 2-3 PSPs for the price of one of the others. The price on them is already very high and in my opinion has largely topped out. You are going to invest 1200-1500 buying on of the more expensive ones to get maybe 200-300 return down the road. If you bought 3 PSPs for 500 I think you will get 800-1000 for them as collectors down the road. Of course a REAL collector is going to get one of each.

I paid 580 for mine with a plum slide. It came with two mags and I paid $200 bucks to get three more. Mine is a shooter. I don't care what it sells for. It is one of the best guns I've ever shot. Yes it is all its cracked up to be.

Peter M. Eick
January 9, 2010, 01:57 PM
Yes.

I liked my first one enough to buy 4 more but now I am back to just 3 in total. Great guns, perfect carry weapon for me and exceptionally well made is all I can add.

Pilot
January 9, 2010, 02:07 PM
Mine is a shooter. I don't care what it sells for. It is one of the best guns I've ever shot. Yes it is all its cracked up to be.


This is pretty much how I feel. I bought a P7M8 about 10 years ago and bought a German police trade in (BMI) when the first started hitting the shores in 2003. Yes, they are all they are cracked up to be.

benderx4
January 9, 2010, 02:43 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2672/3705331320_27c8d9a703.jpg

jon_in_wv
January 9, 2010, 03:46 PM
Nice grips! I like those.

rellascout
January 9, 2010, 04:28 PM
Are they Micarta?

2ndwind
January 9, 2010, 05:24 PM
How many rounds can you fire before the pistol become hot enough to be unpleasant? I have never seen one in person... love accurate pistols though.... would hate to buy one on line and then discover I was one of the folks that didn't "bond well" with it...

benderx4
January 9, 2010, 05:41 PM
Rellascout: Yes they are Micarta, check this guy out, he does great work:

http://www.grips4u.net/index.php?cPath=43_67

2ndWind: For me it gets unpleasant after about 50 rounds rapid fire. The heat shield of the M8 and M13 give you about another 30-50 before your finger starts to fry.

2ndwind
January 9, 2010, 05:43 PM
Thanks

jon_in_wv
January 9, 2010, 07:12 PM
I fire 100-150 rounds a session with my P7 and it doesn't get hot enough to burn my finger. It does get hot enough that I let it cool before I put it back in its Kydex holster though. It depends largely on your rate of fire. I have 5 mags and normally between shooting and loading it doesn't get so hot I can't shoot.

ozarkhillbilly
January 9, 2010, 09:32 PM
If nobody has spoken for the mags, I will buy them for a fair price. That said, I would keep them if I was you.

Trebor
January 10, 2010, 03:26 PM
Keep the mags!

They are a bit hard to find now and that will be even worse by the time you pass the gun down to your son. Personally, I'd be PO'd if my Dad gave me a gun with only one mag, especially if he told me he sold the extras years ago!

Hang onto the mags. Your son will thank you. And, if you decide you have to sell the gun sometime before then, it will bring more with the extra mags.

DanielW
January 10, 2010, 04:04 PM
I recently picked up a P7 PSP for $509. I took it out to shoot along with my 1911 and an HK45 and it's definitely my most favorite to shoot out of those 3. It's a really fun gun, and accurate as hell too.

earlthegoat2
January 10, 2010, 06:13 PM
It is an OK gun I guess.....

See sig line...

alistaire
January 10, 2010, 06:22 PM
The accuracy seems to come partly from the squeeze needed to operate the cocker being just what Rex Applegate calls a 'convulsive squeeze'.

When the NJ State police bought P7s, management congratulated themselves because now criminals who grabbed trooper's gun would no longer know how to operate them. Sure enough, when the first criminal grabbed a state trooper's guny he stood there vainly trying to fire in. When the first trooper tried to shoot a criminal, he stood there vainly trying to fire the gun. That ended the NJSP's love affair with the H&K P7.

Sorry I don't have references for this annecdote, I read it years ago.

demusn1979
January 10, 2010, 07:08 PM
My plum,
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/demusn79/th_Stash005.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/demusn79/?action=view&current=Stash005.jpg)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/demusn79/th_Stash003-2.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/demusn79/?action=view&current=Stash003-2.jpg)
Great gun.

TimboKhan
January 10, 2010, 07:15 PM
I just don't plan on firing the gun anymore. It's just to cool.

Uh, generally this is exactly WHY I fire the gun

usp9
January 10, 2010, 07:31 PM
When the first trooper tried to shoot a criminal, he stood there vainly trying to fire the gun. That ended the NJSP's love affair with the H&K P7.

Not exactly. The NJSP carried the HKs for 18 years...not an indication of discontent if you ask me.

oneounceload
January 10, 2010, 07:35 PM
Actually, the way I had heard the story was that the perp couldn't figure out the gun after taking it off a NJSP and the LEO was able to subdue the perp......

Great gun, shoots better than I can - one I will keep no matter what

Rexster
January 10, 2010, 07:46 PM
"Is the P7 all it's been cracked up to be?"

No.

Reliable, accurate pistols, but still a single-stack 9mm, that is not nearly as compact as people claim, as it is quite tall from butt to rear sight, and the rear of the slide protrudes, complicating concealment. There is not much for a holster to grip, and the center of balance is in the grip area, so the holster must be really SNUG, or the pistol will want to fall out. If the weapon is squeeze-cocked, and the grip then relaxed, it de-cocks with an amazingly loud sound. This can be mitigated by slightly retracting the slide, then decocking while letting the slide down gently, but there are sounds associated with those actions.

I owned a couple of them in the mid-1980's, and carried them on duty for a while, in a then-mandated flap holster. When my PD went to an open-top security holster for revolvers, I reverted to using a sixgun on duty, rather than keep using a flap holster. I had to sell the P7s during a lean time. I would not trade my present duty/carry P229 pistols for anything, and certainly not P7s.

Perhaps, if I become a collector of 20th-Century autopistols, I might get another for that reason.

gc70
January 10, 2010, 08:02 PM
that is not nearly as compact as people claim, as it is quite tall from butt to rear sight, and the rear of the slide protrudes, complicating concealment.

For a gun with a full-size barrel (4-1/8") and full-size grips, I find the P7 to be surprisingly compact.

Sig P225/P6 versus HK P7

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gc70/P6vsP7.jpg

Sig P239 and HK USPc versus HK P7

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gc70/239-USPc-P7__1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gc70/239-USPc-P7__2.jpg

earlthegoat2
January 10, 2010, 08:06 PM
I guess I will respond to Rexter's comments:

First of all there is a low percentage in the gun community who have first hand experience with the P7. They can only go on what they hear. (I know you are NOT one of them Rexter) If they hear the vocal minority, which are the P7 fans, then they will get this idea in their head that it is one heck of a pistol. There are many trade offs associated with its advantages, some of which Rexter has touched on.

It is a standard weight service pistol with a standard sized grip and a standard sized barrel. However all of this is put into a relatively compact package. The grip still prints in concealment but this is no different from a Gov't of Commander 1911. The rear of the slide does not protrude any further than that of a Glock. (of course I have never found Glocks to be particulary concealable either so be your own judge) The gun is thin which also contributes to its single stack magazine that holds 8 rounds of 9mm for a max load of 9 rounds when carried fully loaded. For a 9mm of this size that is very few rounds.

The squeeze cocker is a great idea I think. It takes into play something you should already be doing before you pull the trigger on a pistol and that is to squeeze the grip. I think the noise it makes when uncocking it is also a non issue. I dont know if I am going to be sneaking around anywhere with the gun squeezed/cocked. I will cock/squeeze when I am about to fire or just keep my booger hook off the trigger. I dont know why there should be any learning curve to this very simple manual of arms. Accuracy is very good becuase of the fixed barrel and the very good , high visibility, and factory zeroed sights.

They heat buildup thing is a non issue in defensive shooting. It is a big issue in range practice though. The thing gets hot and takes a second to cool down. You will need to bring 2 guns with you to the range.

Rexster
January 10, 2010, 08:37 PM
I had no trouble hiding its length or height; it was the outside rear corner of the slide that bulged/printed. I actually wished for more length, so that when holstered, it would be more stable. I also wished it balanced more toward the barrel, than the grip area. The P7 is indeed a mechanical marvel, getting that much barrel into such a compact frame. But, it is compact in the dimension that, to me, does not need to be compact. I like 5" 1911 pistols, and carried them on duty later, and also for CC on my own time.

For a 1980's German police officer, the P7 was a great step forward. When I had to use a flap duty holster, it was good for me, too. (Not sure if West German police used flap holsters then.) When my agency went with a better duty rig for sixguns, I considered the modern rig with a sixgun better than an autopistol in a slow 19th-Century holster.

Had it not been a financial necessity to sell them, I might still have my P7s, but I would still likely be using the P229s I am using now, which fit me better, balance better, and handle better, for me. Others prefer different fit, balance, and handling, andf that is great. FWIW, back in the 1980's, SIGs were quite the sensation themselves, with their frame-mounted decocking system and precision engineering/manufacturing. SIG and HK were both big prestige pistols back then.

Rodentman
January 10, 2010, 09:46 PM
I like mine, refinished in NP3 by Robar.

http://fototime.com/1E52E106B8BCD77/standard.jpg

jon_in_wv
January 11, 2010, 09:19 PM
A large part of the equation when carrying the P7 is holster selection. It has a very small profile inside the pants/holster compared to similarly sized guns. The sqeeze cocker also limits how deeply you will want it in the waistband. Today I carried my P7 in a Comptac MTAC. Wow, perfect holster for the P7. As far as the size of the M&P it is almost exactly the same size as my M&P with the extended mag but it is a little thinner. It no harder to conceal than my M&P and actually the slimness of it helps it to tuck in to my side a little better than the M&P. The weapon is small yet it gives you full grip. I like it a LOT but I understand it isn't for everyone.

Trebor
January 12, 2010, 12:04 AM
I owned about five P7's over about a two year period. This included a couple pretty well used M8's, a like new M8, and a used PSP.

The weird thing was the more I handled and shot the P7, the more I realized it wasn't the gun for me.

The pistol never pointed right for me. It always pointed low and it took me longer to get my first shot on target then with other pistols. The gun was very accurate for me, but only out to about 10 yards or so. Past that I struggled with it.

I finally realized it wasn't for me when I shot it side by side with my Makarov and, in my hands, my $200 Makarov outshoot my $1,000 P7M8.

My wife liked the P7 at first. She found it very accurate. But, the more she worked with it, the more shortcomings she found. She could shoot it with both hands just fine. She could cock it and shoot it with her strong hand only, but just barely. She could NOT cock and shoot it with just her support hand though. That was the deal breaker.

They are neat guns and I understand why some people love 'em. For me though there were other, better, choices.

mike4guns
January 12, 2010, 08:23 AM
Of all these interesting , informative and reasonable deductions i sort of think my experience with the p7 mirrors the above post the most (Trebor).
It's very accurate but after using a 239 and a g27 for bu for soooo long , there is just no replacing them. My primary(s) which i go back and forth due to climate conditions and clothing variables are a g30 and a p220 carry elite.
Sorry but there is just no replacing these two weapons.
The p7 is an amazing and unusual firearm which i'm glad to add to my small collection. I just never see having the need for 4 mags. I tend to lean towards collecting fine firearms not the magazines. Although it's only a plus to have extra of something they don't make anymore ,for the p7 ,one mag (maybe two) is the only way i see it. I think 60. ea. is a steal. The more i think of it the more i think the mags are worth more. I'm not in a "must sell" position anyway.
Thanks for all the great info about this gun. Some really smart points were expressed about the p7 here.

PX15
January 12, 2010, 11:47 AM
FWIW:

I bought three "A" grade Lower Saxony Police imports from CDNN last year. Of the three one was absolutely NIB, and the other two had probably been test fired, but looked new. Had I not the NIB to compare them to I'd have thought the others were also new.

One had a black slide, one had a light plum tint, one a more pronounced plum tint. The NIB had the slight plum tint.

I sold one late last year to pay for a new P2000sk (V3), and when it came time to decide which to keep and which to sell I sold the one with the black slide.

I am of the opinion that the "plum" tint on the slide is a "plus" (for me), not a "negative".

YMMV..

Best Wishes,

Jesse

P.S. Here's a photo of the one that came NIB (both sides), and I use as my casual plinker, and part time cc choice in 9MM.. The 2nd photo shows the other P7 I kept, with the more pronounced tint to the slide.. The 4th photo is of my favorite P7, and the new P2000sk V3 I bought (paid for partially) with the money I got from selling the black slide P7.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_8649.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_8652.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_8785_01.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_1164.jpg

alistaire
January 12, 2010, 12:10 PM
Not exactly. The NJSP carried the HKs for 18 years...not an indication of discontent if you ask me.

It took 18 years for the rank and file to convince management to dump the P7.

jon_in_wv
January 12, 2010, 08:48 PM
Oh, give me a break.

Madcap_Magician
January 13, 2010, 06:56 PM
Having only one mag for a P7 is actually not too bad of a thing. It means you can shoot it longer because the gun has a chance to cool down when you stop to reload the magazine. :)

I love mine. I would really like to have an extra magazine for it, though. Can't afford to take all three of yours, but if you were to sell for $50 apiece shipped, they'd fly out of your hands.

jon_in_wv
January 14, 2010, 05:38 AM
Agreed, I bought three spare mags for mine (In addition to the 2 it came with). I paid 75 each for two of them and I found the third for 50 bucks. I didn't even need the 5th magazine but I wasn't going to pass it up for 50 bucks.

Sapper771
January 14, 2010, 07:37 AM
I was at a local gun shop a few days ago, talking about the P7s. I figured I would go out on a limb and ask the shop owner if he had any P7 magazines. He fumbled around behind the counter and rifled through a few boxes and produced two like new P7 magazines. I got both for $80!
They were marked "IA" and they look as if they had not been used very much. Better than paying $60 a piece on midway USA.

jon_in_wv
January 15, 2010, 09:37 AM
Awesome. I wish I would have found a deal like that.

PX15
January 15, 2010, 11:31 AM
JMOfartO:

I think anyone who owns a P7 "should" have at least 2 magazines for it.. I have the same opinion about ANY pistol a person owns.

Even if a person never intended to shoot whatever pistol it is having a 2nd magazine just makes good sense.

Extra magazines for the HK P7 are even more critical than for most pistols because they can become almost impossible to find at times, and even when they are available the price can vary greatly..

So,imo, IF a person already HAS a 2nd magazine for their P7, EVEN with no intentions of shooting that P7 it is, again imo, foolish to sell it..

Just makes no sense. :confused:

IF a person can afford a P7 pistol, he/she should certainly be able to afford a spare magazine.

Just personal opinion.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_8838-1.jpg

ForumSurfer
January 15, 2010, 04:10 PM
This is strictly my opinion, but if you are keeping the gun why not keep at least one spare mag? When I was younger, I was much less open minded and set in my ways. I liked my one particular brand/style of weapon and perceived all others as inferior. The older I get, the more I like all firearms of any type. I actually hate seeing fellow gun owners bickering over typical Glock vs 1911 vs sig vs whatever bs. We're all gun owners wanting to keep the same rights and enjoy our hobby or lifestyle. Why bother fighting to the point of throwing personal insults when there are so many politicians targeting us these days? Anyway, enough of that rant!

The odd ball, unique fire arms are always a rare treat to shoot and having an extra mag just makes shooting chores smoother. It isn't like they take up lots of room in the safe, either. My kids love shooting with me, but are starting to get particular about one style or the other. One thinks Glocks are the best thing ever, and the other loves 1911's like myself. I have a soft spot for a totally factory original old school govt model Colt right down to the spur hammer, but he loves my customized Kimbers. I have preferences, but I own 1911's, revolvers, plinking 22's and various pieces of tactical tupperware. I love them all and most if not all have quirks here or there I could do without. I do however, have 2 if not 3 mags for them all. I may not like it and never shoot it, my sons may not....but my grandson God willing may like some firearm I hate and appreciate the fact I kept that handy little spare mag. Just my 2 cents!

Edit: This is my first post here, though I have lurked for a long time and invariably been brought back repeatedly while on Google trips researching various firearms. Everyone seems very friendly without the annoyingly typical "my gun is better than your gun and you are ignorant for not buying a gun just like mine and not agreeing with me" banter you find on most gun forums. Thanks!

;)

Madcap_Magician
January 15, 2010, 04:18 PM
YMMV, but one minor point is that if I had to have a gun for which I only had one magazine, my P7 would be it. It's such a well-designed, well-made magazine I sincerely doubt it will ever malfunction. Love the no-tilt follower.

SlamFire1
January 15, 2010, 04:24 PM
I asked a knowledgeable gun designer why the squeeze cocker mechanism went out of service. He said that accidental discharges happened when people convulsively gripped the frame front and the trigger at the same time.

Anyone ever heard of this happening?

usp9
January 15, 2010, 07:24 PM
Anyone ever heard of this happening?

Sure, that's how the gun is designed. Most guns will fire when the trigger is pulled. Is that an accident?

PX15
January 15, 2010, 07:43 PM
SlamFire1:

I'm lost...

Why in the world would the fact that a pistol specifically to fire ONLY when the cocker was retracted AND the trigger was pulled be surprised at hearing a "bang" thereafter when both functions were activated?

IF a person is too stupid to understand the design of the P7, which most knowledgeable gun experts will agree is one of MOST safe pistols ever designed, that person would be better served with a different firearm.

Don't depress the cocker and pull the trigger at the same time and the pistol will NOT fire..

As designed.

Jesse

jon_in_wv
January 16, 2010, 09:30 AM
I know of a guy who said that a lot of accidental discharges happened with 1911s when they convulsively clicked the safety off and pulled the trigger.

Seriously, I don't know of any other pistol design that is designed to NOT fire when you pull the trigger.

SlamFire1
January 17, 2010, 11:15 PM
I know of a guy who said that a lot of accidental discharges happened with 1911s when they convulsively clicked the safety off and pulled the trigger.

You missed the point. These are very similiar movements conducted with the same hand.

On a M1911 flicking the safety is an entirely different action from the trigger pull. (But I have seen accidental discharges in IPSC matches!)

On a squeeze cocker, you use your bottom three fingers to cock the mechanism but your top finger to pull the trigger. Maybe those of you that can pat your head and rub your stomach at the same time won't get confused, but it sure seems to me that with a squeeze cocker it is too easy to just clench all fingers at the same time. Especially under stress.

Hey if a Highway Patrol Man can get so excited that he forgets to put the car in neutral, http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/10/toyota-floor-mats-nhtsa-report-on-lexus-es-350-crash.html, than maybe the accidental discharges reported by my friend happened with squeeze cockers.

Pilot
January 18, 2010, 07:55 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^

If your practicing proper trigger finger discipline, your finger is OFF THE TRIGGER when you squeeze the cocking mechanism. This should be true for ALL guns you shoot. The finger is not in the trigger guard until right before you shoot and after the gun is cocked.

jon_in_wv
January 18, 2010, 09:51 AM
No I think YOU are missing the point. You grab the grip of ANY pistol. If you put your finger on the trigger you are likely to have an accidental discharge. The P7s squeeze cocker is a safety device. If you disable the safety device and pull the trigger if is going to fire. This is firearms 101. On the P7 if you pull the trigger first it take significantly more pressure to pull in the squeeze cocker than if you pull it before the trigger. Either way the weapon is designed to fire in either case. How is the action of gripping the pistol and pulling the trigger any different with the Glock or Sig or any other pistol? They will fire too. Its called poor gun handling NOT an accidental discharge. What is your reasoning that you should be able to grip your pistol and pull the trigger without it firing? KEEP YOUR STUPID FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER! jeez.

I strongly suspect that anyone with these concerns hasn't spent much time with a P7. It is one of the safest weapons I've had. Poor gun handling will get you in trouble but that is true of ALL weapons. No matter now you slice it, you can't blame the weapon for firing IF YOU PULLED THE TRIGGER.

SlamFire1
January 18, 2010, 10:30 AM
I strongly suspect that anyone with these concerns hasn't spent much time with a P7.

That's true. I don't own one. Never shot one. They were way too expensive when new, and since they are not being made anymore it is unlikely I will ever own one.

jon_in_wv
January 18, 2010, 11:46 AM
A P7 PSP can still be had for under 600 bucks. Its in the same price range as any of the other quality defensive pistols. You either love them or you don't. I would suggest you spend some time with one. You might be surprised. Personally I LOVE mine. It is such a fine shooting and handling weapon.

N.M. Edmands
January 18, 2010, 07:34 PM
Hmmmm? Not indexed on a threat, cocking and holding/pulling trigger at same time,--gun goes bang in an unintended direction.
Gunman problem, NOT a gun problem.

m2steven
January 18, 2010, 11:23 PM
I finally got a chance to put 50 remmington fmj and some blazer brass thru mine. The pistol has somewhat of a scary hair trigger. You really need to want to pull it when you put your finger on it. It's got a highly excellent trigger. Short stroke, light and smooth as silk.
Follow up shots are extremely easy and the pistol aims well. It's one of the most interesting and best 9mm's i've ever shot. Smooth as silk in all aspects. It's worth the money.
Had zero issues with neither type of ammo. Didn't try hollow points. The loading and ejecting action is so smooth i would expect no problems. The gun did not heat up any more than any other gun, but i've got only 1 mag.

Nice Pistol!

Onesiphorus
January 19, 2010, 01:03 AM
If your going to buy a single stack 9mm to carry, get a S&W 3913 or 908. they are good for 30K-40K rounds and they are reliable and accurate.

jon_in_wv
January 19, 2010, 05:31 AM
m2stgeven, try it with five mags! It will heat up a lot quicker then. I only take three of my mags to the range and I have no problems. With five it tends to get pretty warm. You also sound like you are not used to a single action trigger. You will find it makes shooting a lot easier but training and finger discipline a BIT more important. My P7s trigger is no lighter than my M&Ps but the take up and overtravel are much less. I'm glad you like it!

Pilot
January 19, 2010, 07:18 PM
If your going to buy a single stack 9mm to carry, get a S&W 3913 or 908. they are good for 30K-40K rounds and they are reliable and accurate.

The 3913 and HK P7 aren't in the same class. Try shooting both side by side.

PX15
January 19, 2010, 07:54 PM
Pilot:

You are indeed correct that the 3rd Gen S&W 3913 and the HK P7 are not in the same "class"..

But that is not to say the 3913 is not a good pistol, and for many people, particularly those who prefer a traditional double-action platform, it's often a BETTER choice for personal protection than the fine HK P7.

All of my 3rd Gen Smiths have been absolutely reliable, and more than self defense accurate. I am more concerned about absolute reliability in a firearm I use for personal protection than I am tack driving accuracy (as the P7 offers)..

The Smiths don't require adaptation to a new cocking and firing process, come with a lifetime warranty, mags are relatively easy to find, not too pricey, and the prices of NIB or "like new" 3rd Gen Smiths are generally lower than that of the surplus P7.

All something to think about for the average shooter looking for a quality 9MM pistol.

I believe for dedicated "gun guys/gals", and IF the unusual squeezecocking aspect of the HK P7 suits them, the HK P7 is about as good a single stack 9MM pistol as has ever been made.

But generally speaking, just for the "average" person seeking a small(er) 9MM pistol for cc and personal defense any of the 3rd Gen Smiths are hard to beat.

In my Smiths, I actually prefer the double-stack 6906, using the 5906 mags w/+2 S&W extender, offering me a capacity of 15+1 rounds..

And, as good as the HK P7 is, I have found that for my needs the HK P2000sk (V3) is even a better daily cc choice.. Two more rounds, double-action w/capability of cocking the hammer for a first round sa if desired.. In fact my P2000sk is SURPRISINGLY as accurate as either of my P7's, and I'm still amazed at that..

Additionally, if I want to use the higher capacity mag of the full size P2000 (w/Xgrip) I still have a very concealable 9MM pistol offering a capacity of 13+1...

Just personal opinion, no offense to those who might disagree..:)

Best Wishes,

Jesse

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_9996.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_1164.jpg

Pilot
January 19, 2010, 08:04 PM
I had a S&W 915 which is a 3rd Gen Smith pistol in 9MM. It was reliable, but terribly innacurate. I got rid of it ASAP.

When I first shot a rental P7M8, I couldn't believe it. I had no training on its use but found the squeeze cocking mechanism very intuitive and it pointed naturally. At 10 yards my first few rounds went into the same hole. I thought something was wrong. I fired the rest of the mag and saw a very tight group on the target with no real concentration on my part. I was really just firing to get the feel of the pistol. It was surreal. I bought an M8 upon exiting the range, then bought a P7 during the first round of the PSP German surplus imports.

m2steven
January 19, 2010, 08:12 PM
Jon-in-wv: I can't afford 5 mags :)

jon_in_wv
January 19, 2010, 10:18 PM
I hear that. I spent 580 for my P7 and another 200 just for the mags. They aren't cheap at all. They are stout as all get out though. At least they seem like they would last forever.

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