Anyone here have a C&R FFL?


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bowhnter
January 20, 2003, 05:42 PM
I'm sending in my app tomorrow. I'm just looking for info on do's and dont's. Can you buy non-C&R weapons like the other FFL? If I wanted to buy ...say... a Walther P99 can I get it or only C&R weapons? Since I will have a C&R do the guns I buy get shipped to my home? I suppose they would but, I just hadda ask. Do I need special arrangements for storage? Things like that........
I don't want to give ATF any extra reasons to stop at my house.
Thanks

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Flotsam
January 20, 2003, 06:17 PM
You can only buy weapons that are designated C&R's - over 50 years old or so designated by the ATF. They will be shipped directly to you. You must keep a record of the transaction (and any future transactions) in your bound book.

Sam

Kharn
January 20, 2003, 06:46 PM
After you apply, you will have about 4-6 weeks to zero out your credit cards and build up the biggest bank account you can. Once that C&R license arrives dont plan on having cash for the next three years.

Kharn

Greg L
January 20, 2003, 06:47 PM
You can certainly get a P99, you just have to do it like you would today - go to your local store and fill out the yellow sheet. :p Anything that is on the C&R list that you will get with the FFL you can buy yourself and have shipped to your home. Anything else though you need to buy the same as you did before getting it.

The only storage problem that you will find is trying to find a place to keep all these mil-surp rifles that UPS keeps dropping off. :D

Greg

Gewehr98
January 20, 2003, 07:00 PM
Duh. I thought, with him getting a C&R FFl and all, that he was gonna get a P-38!

(One of the first things I did when I got my C&R FFL was buy a P-08 Luger)

If you get on a first-name basis with the UPS guy, you know your C&R FFL is working quite well. :D

goon
January 20, 2003, 07:10 PM
It is like being a kid in a candy store.
Naturally, I want a Mosin-Nagant, an M-48, a SMLE and a No.4, and anything else that I might come across.
But I'll have to have two, one good one and one beater that I won't have to wory about hurting.
I started last week with a Finnish Mosin-Nagant, and I'm afraid of what I might end up with the end of next week.

JBP
January 20, 2003, 07:42 PM
Sent in the renewal form and check for my C&R last week. Did not go to crazy with mine. Bought 11 handguns and sold three of them over the past three years. Now of course if I wasn't under a recoil restriction on long guns I probably would have a basement full of whatever was out there. Currently I'm following the bidding on a C&R M1 Carbine. Had four of mine out to the range today: Ballester Molina, Sistems 1927, CZ50, and CZ52.

Calamity Jane
January 20, 2003, 07:55 PM
Hubby has had his C&R for about a year now. His first purchase was a Mosin Nagant Model 9130, arsenal refinished, all-matching serial numbers. It came with matching serial number bayonet, dog collar sling, ammo pouches, and an oil/solvent bottle.

All for $128.00.

REALLY, REALLY nice gun!

Be aware that Brownell's and Midway will give you their trade discounts (about 20-30%) if you send them copies of your C&R. The savings there alone are worth the cost and upkeep of the C&R.

Of course, hubby and I have been diligently expanding our Mauser collection... :neener:

bowhnter
January 20, 2003, 08:06 PM
After you apply, you will have about 4-6 weeks to zero out your credit cards and build up the biggest bank account you can. Once that C&R license arrives dont plan on having cash for the next three years.

Kharn, you're making that sound like a bad thing....:D

Thanks for the input. I really want a Molina, Springfield 06, Garand, 8mm Mauser... :eek: ....OMG.... :eek: .... I see what you mean.....

Kharn
January 20, 2003, 08:09 PM
Bowhntr: The zeroing the credit cards is the most important part, missing a prized gun because a credit card is maxed out (or has too high of a balance) gives the worst feeling in the world.

Kharn

firestar
January 20, 2003, 08:21 PM
I just sent my app in a few days ago also. I want a Yugo SKS, Systema Colt, Ballister Molina, Mosin Nagant ect. I am waiting to get my C&R before I buy any more old guns.

What are some good places to request catalogs from? I want to build up a catalog collection before I get my C&R. I heard that Brownell's and Midway do discounts, any other deals out there for a C&R holder?

Kharn
January 20, 2003, 10:05 PM
www.aimsurplus.com is one of the best dealers out there, fast service and nice people, their website is their catalog. The guns might not come with the slings or bayonets other dealers might have, but the mechanical condition is always great and they often under-rate guns.

www.Southernohiogun.com appears to have a good selection, but I've never ordered from them.

Gulp, www.centuryarms.com has a varied selection, but dealing with them always leaves a strange taste in my mouth (I've only ordered ammo, never guns). You need to send them your C&R and get a login/password before you can see prices on the guns.

Kharn

Beren
January 21, 2003, 12:27 AM
My app went in last week. Already got a copy of the Shotgun News. Sigh. Process my app fast, please!

Okiecruffler
January 21, 2003, 01:20 AM
I order almost completely from SOG now and haven't had a bad transaction in the 17 rifles I've gotten from them. AIM is also nice, but the last few times I tried to order from them they were already out of the item, and this was on the day I recieved the flyer.

dave
January 21, 2003, 02:26 AM
Does one have to contact the ATF for an app, or can they be had on-line?

Hkmp5sd
January 21, 2003, 05:14 AM
ATF C&R Application Form - PDF Format (http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f531016.pdf)

jar
January 21, 2003, 11:19 AM
Dave
There is also a certificate of citizenship that needs to go in at the same time. You can download both from ATFs site.

bowhnter
January 21, 2003, 05:17 PM
The link for the cretification form is under the one for the app forms. Nice and neat.

cwalker3
January 21, 2003, 07:05 PM
You can only buy weapons that are designated C&R's - over 50 years old or so designated by the ATF. They will be shipped directly to you. You must keep a record of the transaction (and any future transactions) in your bound book.

To clarify, you only need to record you C & R transactions in your book. Non C & R weapons do not need to be posted. Nor do C & R's you aquired before receiving your license.

Once you get your license, make a couple of hundred copies, but DO NOT sign the original. Sign the copies (preferably blue ink) and send them to as many C & R distributors as you can find. Here's a few more that haven't already been listed:

http://www.allans-armory.com/
http://www.empirearms.com/home.htm
http://www.jgsales.com/
http://www.gunsnammo.com/

Also send copies off to parts companies like:

http://www.e-gunparts.com/
http://www.brownells.com/
http://www.midwayusa.com/

bowhnter
January 21, 2003, 09:38 PM
Great info ..... thanks for the links. I have another ??? I couldn't find the answer to. In NY you have to have a CCW to carry a pistol. When I get my C&R will I still have to put pistols on that permit or does the FFl take care of that?

Kharn
January 21, 2003, 10:03 PM
Sign the copies (preferably blue ink)

You can use any color you want, except black, so it can be shown its not a direct copy; I guess the ATF never heard of color copiers or color laser printers.

Kharn

jar
January 22, 2003, 06:39 PM
Bowhuntr

The C&L has nothing to do with carry so you'll still have to follow whatever silly rules NY has.

bowhnter
January 22, 2003, 08:31 PM
I know that. What I want to know is, If I bought a Nambu pistol, that I wouldn't carry ..........shouldn't the ffl cover possession? It seems redundant to have it on an ffl &ccw.

Hkmp5sd
January 22, 2003, 08:46 PM
The FFL does not trump local laws regarding acquiring or possessing firearms. You must obey both. If your local laws ban a particular gun, even if it is a C&R, you cannot legally buy it. If your handguns must be registered with NY, that includes your C&R handguns.

DAL
January 22, 2003, 09:51 PM
I sent my C&R application in last month. How long should I wait for them to process it, and how do I contact them to check on it? I plan on using it to buy a (only one) Mosin Nagant.
DAL

TexasVet
January 23, 2003, 12:27 AM
Okay... That will last about a week. Then you will get withdrawal symptoms and you will need a M39 from Finland "to go" with the MN, then a M44 carbine, then a M38 then the Mauser that fought the 91/30 at Stalingrad (watch "Enemy at the Gates" and you are doomed!)then the British guns that fought the Mauser on the other front, then the Japanese guns for the Far East front, then the ...

It goes on and on and on and on....
And you will LOVE it!!!:D

Kharn
January 23, 2003, 06:03 AM
And then a selection of the American guns, M1 Garand, Carbine, Tommy gun (full auto, of course), whatever the rifle was the Marines used, a 1911 and a 1911A1.

Dont forget a 10 pack of cheap Mausers and lots of bandoleers of ammo for a $500 SHTF stash.

Kharn :D

jar
January 23, 2003, 11:26 AM
and then there are the handguns that were carried along with those rifles and the handguns that preceeded them.

and the Commemeratives that celibrated them and...

TexasVet
January 24, 2003, 12:57 AM
you have to give your wife 8 feet of that 18 X12 house addition you were laying out when she came home and tried to explain that you "needed" the space for your guns and safes and ammo.
So now "we" are building an 8 X 12 extra BATHROOM with our 10 X 12 gun room behind it!:banghead:
Instead of a nice clean empty room to hang guns in, I have to spring for shower stall, toilet, sink, "Gustav Stickley" cabinets, plumbing, etc. Do you know how many GUNS I could buy with the money THAT'S gonna cost me?:cuss:

Okiecruffler
January 24, 2003, 08:28 AM
Could be worse, The Wife uses each of my new gun purchases as an excuse to bring home a new cat.

Greg L
January 24, 2003, 09:16 AM
I don't think I could live in a house with a couple hundred cats in it. :eek:

:D

Greg

Country Boy
January 24, 2003, 09:21 AM
C&R FFL'er = Cruffler

Check out the link http://www.cruffler.com/becomingcruffler.html on getting a Curio and Relic FFL.

A Type 03 FFL helps you to expand your collection of a) firearms that were manufactured at least 50 years ago, and b) firearms otherwise deemed curio and relics by the ATF. Check the hypertext in the above link, or check out http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/relics/index.htm

It does NOT allow you to a) conduct a business, b) buy firearms that were manufactured less than 50 years ago, or c) carry a firearm.

Check out the ATF site. I actually think it is fairly user friendly.

Okiecruffler
January 25, 2003, 04:50 AM
The cat thing only started 6 guns ago, before that it was jewlery. At least cats are cheaper.

dave
January 25, 2003, 10:34 AM
I want to thank everyone for their great replies here. I down loaded the app. and citizenship froms from the BATF site and sent them off. I'm not sure how long it will take to hear from them. Perhaps I can spend the time bulking up my savings.


I've already started a list of things I "must" have. Need more paper.


Again, thanks to those willing to share your knowledge.

jar
January 25, 2003, 12:19 PM
Don't forget the letter to the senior LE in your area.

TexasVet
January 25, 2003, 10:01 PM
Ah, that's called a "target rich enviornment", isn't it?

goon
January 25, 2003, 10:06 PM
Also, remember that the application has to be sent in on that funny sized paper.
...Anything to give a guy greif.:rolleyes:

cwalker3
January 26, 2003, 07:42 AM
Also, remember that the application has to be sent in on that funny sized paper.

I found that out after I had already sent mine in on 8.5 x 11, but mine went through without a hitch.

Shockly
January 31, 2003, 07:51 PM
I sent my C&R application in last month. How long should I wait for them to process it, and how do I contact them to check on it?

I'd give them six weeks anyway. They told me that they have 90 days to process it.

1-404-417-2750 is their Customer Service #.

I was told that mine was sent out today.:D
Of course I was told that it was sent out last Monday also.:mad:

Kharn
January 31, 2003, 07:54 PM
They have 60 days by law, not 90.
The application should be on green 8.5x14" paper (legal size, wont be that common in green), but they will take white.

Kharn

*8*
January 31, 2003, 09:19 PM
Welcome, You are now a bonafide federally licensed gun owner. :)

Beren
January 31, 2003, 09:29 PM
My C&R app went in the mail a couple of weeks ago. I hate to wait but the timing is right; I need to regenerate some funds anyway. Of course there are lots of modern firearms I can buy while I wait..

bowhnter
February 1, 2003, 08:12 AM
The cruffler seems to be pretty popular here. I haven't even heard of it untill I read it an another board. Thanks for your help and please keep you ears open, I'm sure us newbs will have some more questions.

Country Boy
February 5, 2003, 05:29 PM
I like to think of a C&R as a Federal Good Guy Certificate. The government trusts me enough to allow dealers to ship rifles, including those evil semi-autos like SKS's, directly to my home, with no paperwork going to the Feds.

Could be worse, The Wife uses each of my new gun purchases as an excuse to bring home a new cat.

At least you have a steady supply of targets...

C. H. Luke
February 12, 2003, 03:22 AM
"Great info ..... thanks for the links. I have another ??? I couldn't find the answer to. In NY you have to have a CCW to carry a pistol. When I get my C&R will I still have to put pistols on that permit or does the FFl take care of that?"

In Monroe County you're required to have any handgun you own on your permit.
The big plus is not having to mess with the time-wasting, back & forth, dealer coupons & bill of sale before you can pick-up yor gun.
Another FYI is most of the people I know also have any barrels {having a different serial number} put on their permits.....cheap insurance................

Country Boy
February 12, 2003, 09:15 AM
The C&R does not allow you to carry a firearm. State (and local) laws still prevail.
[edited for clarification]

Hkmp5sd
February 12, 2003, 12:45 PM
b) buy firearms that were manufactured less than 50 years ago

Sure it does. Any gun listed on ATF's C&R list is a C&R regardless of age along with any gun older than 50 years of age.

Country Boy
February 12, 2003, 01:19 PM
HKmp5sd-
You're right, of course. I was trying to be general, and it didn't come out correctly. Thanks for correcting me. Guns that were manufactured more than 50 years ago OR guns that are otherwise listed as curio and relics by the ATF are consdered Curio and Relics.

The Bren Ten handguns are a prime example. While not manufactured over 50 years ago, they are considered to be a Curio and Relic by the ATF. They are guns of a collectable nature.

454c
February 12, 2003, 06:26 PM
Would the gun have to be over 50 years old or the design?(I.E. When the Win. model 70 becomes 50 years old will you be able to buy a new one or have to find one of the first ones made.)Isn't the ak-47 over 50 years old?:scrutiny: I was talking with the wife about getting a C&R and she asked why I would want to give them an excuse to come raid my house.Now I have nothing to hide but I still don't like the thought of ANYBODY going through my house uninvited.Always a downside:mad:

Hkmp5sd
February 12, 2003, 06:30 PM
The gun itself must be 50 years old. Even replicas of old guns are not considered C&R firearms.

BTW, ATF cannot enter your house and search it because you have a C&R license. They cannot even enter your house to check your collection. YOU have the option of letting them check your records at your home OR at THEIR office. And I don't even know anyone with a C&R that has been checked.

Country Boy
February 21, 2003, 05:53 PM
Something from the ATF's Website.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/nlc/ffl/faqs_collect.htm

Kharn
February 21, 2003, 08:21 PM
454c: The ATF can make an appointment with you to check your book once per every 12 months. They cannot inspect your book without an appointment (unless have a warrent, but thats a different issue), and as Hkmp5sd said, you can choose the place the inspection occurs.

Kharn

jimcon
February 22, 2003, 09:11 AM
The very best part of having a C & R FFL is that you can get dealer prices from Brownells. Just call and tell them that you have the FFL. In my case, I have saved the cost of the FFL many times over with my Brownells purchases.

It is GREAT
Jim Conway

Mordwyn
February 22, 2003, 11:02 PM
Now when it comes to your log book for purchases, are there any requirements as to what kind of book to use and is there any information that you need to list other than make model and SN?

Kharn
February 22, 2003, 11:04 PM
The format required is explained in one of the books the ATF will send you when you get your license. I suggest just searching Brownells for "bound book" and buying theirs for $3. It has space for ~400 entries, so you dont need to worry about running out of space, and it comes with examples so you know how to do it correctly.

Kharn

Hkmp5sd
February 23, 2003, 12:07 AM
Your bound book doesn't actually have to be "bound". You can take the format (it is shown in 178.125(f) in the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide) and create a form on your computer and print it out.

That's what I do. Created an Excel Spreadsheet in the proper format, printed out the form, punched holes in them and placed it in a 3-ring binder.

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