[housemoney]

When I started out on my rock chucker single stage, I was seating and taper crimping in separate stages... worked out fine, but it was a pain.

Now I've upgraded to a pro 2000 I'm trying to consolidate it into a single stage...I'm following the directions to the T but can't get it to work for the life of me. I could just get another die and do a 4th and 5th stage like I was before, but I really would like to figure this out.

I can't seem to make the proper adjustments to the die and seater plug no matter what I try... any help is appreciated.

[Jesse Heywood]

The easiest way would be to use a round of the same case length that is either loaded or a dummy that has been seated and crimped the way you like.

Unscrew the seat plug up and out of the way. With the round in the seated position (top or bottom of the stroke) screw the die down so the crimp touches the case. Lock the die in place. Now screw the seat plug down to where it touches the bullet and lock in place. Do both steps with the round in the die so nothing moves. If it's not exactly what you want raise or lower the die or plug as needed, but it shouldn't take much.

If you use cases that are a different length move the die up or down as needed. But you should be able to leave the seat plug as the distance between the bullet end and case end should be constant.

[David Wile]

Hey House,

First of all, I never crimp a cartridge if it does not need to be crimped. When I do have to crimp cartridges, I always seat and crimp in the same operation with the same die that came with the die set. It is the way I was taught back in the 1950s, and I have never had a need to change since then.

For the sake of explaining how to adjust the seating/crimping die to do both things in one operation, let's assume we are talking about reloading .357 cartridges with gas checked cast bullets. At this point I ought to mention that I always make sure that all new cases I get are first trimmed to a specific length for a particular caliber, and then I chamfer the case mouth to insure there is a very smooth taper on the inside of the case mouth. Once I trim and chamfer cases such as the .357, I find I do not have to trim and chamfer them again in the future. By chamfering the inside of the case mouth carefully once, it makes it much easier to seat bullets with little and sometimes no belling of the case mouth.

Once you have sized and reprimed your previously chamfered cases, you will expand the neck and bell the case mouth. With most standard RCBS and Lyman die sets, neck expanding and case mouth belling are done in one step with a single die. You should read the instructions carefully and look at the illustrations in there as well as excellent illustrations provided in several different loading manuals. They will show how the cartridge case is forced over the neck expander to provide final neck tension to hold the bullet. The illustrations also show how the case mouth reaches a point on the neck expander where it tapers out to a wider diameter and forces the case mouth to bell out. The whole purpose of belling the case mouth is simply to allow the bullet to be inserted into the case without shaving the side of the bullet. You should not use any more belling of the case mouth than is absolutely required to insure the side of the bullet is not shaved. In many instances, a chamfered case mouth will allow the bullet to be seated without any belling of the mouth. Remember, any belling you do to the mouth at this stage has to be removed when seating the bullet.

After neck expanding and belling if necessary, the case is charged with powder, and then comes the seating and crimping stage which I have always done with the seater/crimper die. Actually, the operation will do three things: seat the bullet, remove any belling of the mouth, and finally apply the crimp.

The adjustment of the seating and crimping die takes some thought and understanding of the process to do properly. First one would place a charged case in the shell holder and run the ram to its top location. Then the seater/crimper die is installed in the press. First back out the bullet seating plug as far as possible. Then screw the die into the press until you first feel the inside of the die touch the case mouth. Do this lightly with the fingers so the die does not squeeze the case mouth when it touches it. Once you feel the die touch the case mouth, back the die back out 3/4 of a turn and lock the ring in place. At this point the case mouth will be perhaps 1/8 of an inch below the crimping shoulder inside the die and will not be affected by it at this time.

Now it is time to seat the bullet. Turn the bullet seating plug back down maybe half way. Then lower the ram, place the bullet in the case moth and raise the ram again to see if the bullet touches the seating plug and begins to enter the case. Just get it started to see how far you have to adjust the bullet seating plug to get the bullet to seat to the desired level. Again, we are assuming we are using a cast bullet that has a crimping groove. At this point, you have to adjust the seating plug so the case mouth is just slightly above the bottom of the crimping groove. Once you have the bullet seated to that point, you then back out the seating plug four or five complete turns so the bullet is not touched by the plug again.

At this point you will have a case with a bullet seated to the proper depth to now crimp the mouth in the groove. To do this, you now loosen the die ring a turn or three, and then you finger screw the die down until you feel the crimp shoulder of the die touch the case mouth. You are now ready to start the crimp adjustment. Lower the ram and turn the die down 1/8 of a turn, and then raise the ram again. This will apply some amount of crimp to the case mouth. Lower the ram and look at the crimp. If it need more crimp applied, turn the die down a little more and check again. When you finally get the cartridge and crimp to look like a factory round, it is time to make the final adjustment to the seater/crimp die and seat and crimp all your cartridges.

The final adjustment is easy. Back the seater/crimp die back out of the press several turns. Put the round you just finished back in the shell holder and run the ram to the top. Then screw the seater/crimp die down till the crimp shoulder of the die is touching the finished round. Screw the die down a little more than finger tight and lock the die ring in place. Then screw the bullet seating plug down until it touches the bullet and again make it a little bit more than finger tight. Lock the nut on the seater plug.

You now have adjusted your seater/crimp die so it will seat the bullet, remove any bell, and crimp the case mouth in the crimp groove in one operation. Put your next charged case in the shell holder, hold bullet in case mouth, and raise ram all the way to seat and crimp another cartridge. As long as all of your cases are trimmed to the same length, they will all seat and crimp the same way.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[housemoney]

Now it is time to seat the bullet. Turn the bullet seating plug back down maybe half way. Then lower the ram, place the bullet in the case moth and raise the ram again to see if the bullet touches the seating plug and begins to enter the case. Just get it started to see how far you have to adjust the bullet seating plug to get the bullet to seat to the desired level....



I have it up to this point, however my 10mm case makes contact with my die only a few complete turns in to the press. So I backed the die out 3/4 of a turn and locked it in place. I then seat a bullet and raise it it into the die. NOW, I cannot make contact with the seat plug even with the seat plug screwed all the way down into the die...

I have tried trouble shooting this by threading the die down further into the press and lowering the seat plug at the same time... however this does not work because once I reach the proper seating depth, the crimp is off and I can't firgure out how to adjust it...

I must be making a simple mistake here... the dies are correct 40/10mm...

[Randy1911]

It sounds like your case mouth is flared too much. We are talking about screwing the die in until it makes contact with the crimp groove inside the die body.

I do it different. First I screw the die in until it contacts the case. I then back it out 1 turn. I then seat a bullet by adjusting the seater plug until I get the OAL to what I want. I then back out the seater plug and and screw down the die body until I get the crimp I want. Then screw the seater plug back in until it contact the bullet. Slight adjustments maybe needed to the OAL after doing this.

[housemoney]

Yea I was just thinking about that so I decreased the flare on the case. Yea it's just making contact with the bottom of the die...not the crimp groove inside... I think you nailed it Randy.

I will give this a try... Thanks

[housemoney]

OK, I'm clear all the way to making my 1/8" adjustments for finding the proper crimp. I've moved the seater die over a full turn down... no smooth taper on the edge of the case yet... I guess I will screw down the die body until I get the crimp I want.

If I remember correctly, I should get visible smooth line around the top edge of the case correct?


Thanks DAVE, JESSE AND RANDY for all your help so far!

[housemoney]

Well, I'm going to call it a night! I finished with 20 perfect rounds twice as fast as I ever did with my single stage. Thanks again for all of the help fellas!

[Peter M. Eick]

In my pro2000, I generally just seat and start the crimp in station 4 and then finish it in station 5 with either a redding profile crimer (revolver) or another crimp die (autoloader) with one exception. In 357 sig I use an fcd to do the final crimp.

I modified my setup so my powder dispense and expander is a hornady unit on station 2 and have a powder check on station 3. Do a search on "splicing a hornady into a uniflow" for pictures under my name if you are interested.

[David Wile]

Hey House,

Remember what I said about belling the case mouth: it should be as little as possible, and sometimes it is not required at all if you take the time to chamfer your case mouths just the first time you get them. I shoot 10mm and use a commercially made cast bullet with no gas check, but the bottom does have a short taper. I find these bullets go in the cases without any belling whatsoever and without shaving the sides. Of course the cases do have the mouths chamfered, and that makes a big difference.

Your .40 is no different than my 10mm as far as reloading operations go. You obviously were belling the mouth wayyy too much. Try sizing a case, then expand the neck without even touching the belling shoulder, then chamfer the case mouth carefully and see if you can seat your bullet without any bell at all.

Also, the .40, like the 10mm, headspaces on the case mouth and really should not have any crimp that is noticeable to the eye. The .40 bullet will not have a crimp groove like other pistol bullets like the .357 and .44 mag. which headspace on the case rim.

Chamfering the case mouth once when you first get the cases is good for all cartridges, but it is especially good for the semi-auto pistol calibers like 9mm, 10mm, and .40 which headspace on the case mouth. With these calibers, chamfering the case mouths will help in seating bullets to the point where little if any belling is required, and that is much easier on the cases.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[45ACPUSER]

Some brands of dies for auto loading cartridges impart a ROLL crimp when trying to seat and crimp in the same step.

[David Wile]

Hey 45ACPUSER,

I don't know about the dies you use, but I use standard RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, and even old Herter's, and they all crimp the same way. The seater/crimp die has a shoulder that will first remove any bell in the case mouth and then roll a crimp commensurate with the distance you press the case into the die. The seater/crimp die will give you anything you want from simple removal of the crimp and leaving a straight case to a full roll crimp. It all depends on how you adjust the die.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile