.45ACP 230gr +P HST anyone?


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RockyMtnTactical
January 10, 2010, 12:42 AM
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_6352.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_6346.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_6354.jpg

I compared it to 230gr Tactical Bonded. I will get those other pictures up sometime soon. They will all be posted on my blog soon.

http://www.minutemanreview.com/

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Snowdog
January 10, 2010, 12:52 AM
Though I don't really feel any need for +P from a .45acp, I must say I'm impressed by those results. I've have a healthy respect for Federal's HST and carry them (147gr standard pressure) from my K9.
If I didn't already have a decent supply of 230gr Winchester Ranger on hand, I would seriously consider HSTs for my 1911s.

Airburst
January 10, 2010, 02:34 AM
Snowdog
I've have a healthy respect for Federal's HST and carry them (147gr standard pressure) from my K9.
Your dog shoots bullets?:eek:

scoutsabout
January 10, 2010, 03:01 AM
No, but thanks anyway.

My standard pressure, run-of-the-mill 230-grain JHP's perform fantastically.

I'll just buck up to 10mm or .44 Magnum if I need more punch.

I'm not gonna dig deep into my wallet to fix what ain't broken.

By all means, continue the entertainment.

RockyMtnTactical
January 10, 2010, 03:07 AM
$30 for 50 rounds of premium ammo ain't a bad price. If you can buy premium ammo at better prices, please share.

sigbear
January 10, 2010, 06:38 AM
I also tested 230+P HST and 124+P 9mm ammo and now thats what I've been loading my carry and HD guns with for the last 4-5 years.

I did notice a difference in expansion, when fired from a Sig. P220 the
230gr.+P HST didn't expand as much as the ones fired from a S&W 1911.

I can't remember exactly, but I believe both guns had a 4 1/4" barell. Believe me, the ones fired from the P220 still had impressive expansion.

Sigbear

moooose102
January 10, 2010, 06:53 AM
That is pretty impressive. I will have to look into some. I especially would be interested in some for the .380, if they make it.

DRYHUMOR
January 10, 2010, 09:48 AM
How many jugs of water?

AllisonDT
January 10, 2010, 10:50 AM
How many jugs of water?

Our tests always end up in the 4th jug.

The HSTs sure are pretty when they expand. :) Look like something I could mount on a ring! The Rangers look MUCH nastier with the sharp copper jacket petals.

Not to hijack the thread but here's a (left to right) Bonded Gloden Saber, Federal HST and a Winchester Ranger T. All are 230g bullets.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i73/tjhands/thanksgiving09066.jpg

xmanpike
January 10, 2010, 11:16 AM
Where are you finding this stuff for sale? I cant find it anywhere!

sigbear
January 10, 2010, 02:29 PM
The following is from my local gun shop, not my words:

Federal HST is no longer available to sporting goods stores. They are now marketed to law enforcement only. We don't know why Federal made this decision.

http://www.le.atk.com/pdf/PortlandWoundBallisticReport1.pdf

Sigbear

AllisonDT
January 10, 2010, 03:05 PM
Federal HST is no longer available to sporting goods stores. They are now marketed to law enforcement only.



Realize, please, that this doesn't mean that it's illegal for you to buy the stuff or for the seller to sell the stuff. It simply means that Federal made a political decision that you and I don't deserve to protect our lives as much as the government, i.e. law enforcement.

What an abomination of our rights. :barf:

I think our Founders would be surprised that this s**t is happening in the country that they created, especially since we're supposedly still operating under their mandates.

What a joke.

okespe04
January 10, 2010, 03:50 PM
That stuff looks pretty potent. In .45 .357 and up etc I have never been too worried about fancy ammo. Any decent jhp that is accurate and reliable is fine for me. In 9mm and lower I go for the best performing ammo I can find.

AllisonDT
January 10, 2010, 04:45 PM
Any decent jhp that is accurate and reliable is fine for me.

Careful with that. A lot of JHP ammo acts disappointingly close to FMJ. There have been leaps of progress made within the past 10 years as far as JHP ammo is concerned. Don't rely on a cheap one. I think your life is worth an extra $20. Don't you?

mljdeckard
January 10, 2010, 05:19 PM
He said DECENT jhp. And I agree. I think in the real world the differences are subtle if noticeable at all between JHP brands. I think if you use WWB JHP ammo you will get the desired results the vast majority of the time.

Like others have said, I see no need for +P ammo in general, but particularly from the .45. I use it specifically BECAUSE it's a slow, heavy round. I don't see what a +P HST is supposed to do that a standard one won't. I use .45 in the configuration and barrel-length it was intended, because I think that shorter barrels, lighter bullets, tweaked pressures, etc are messing with something that doesn't need to be messed with.

And if they are only being sold to LE, someone forgot to tell the stores I buy them from. There is absolutely no difference between the actual cartridges in the LE boxes and the regular boxes.

AllisonDT
January 10, 2010, 05:32 PM
He said DECENT jhp

Oh, I know what he said. There's a world of subjectiveness in that little phrase and a lot of people choose a winner or a loser based on it.

sigbear
January 10, 2010, 06:28 PM
[QUOTE][I think if you use WWB JHP ammo you will get the desired results the vast majority of the time.
/QUOTE]

When I did my testing of HST in 9mm I also tested WWB 147gr. JHP.
I shot 10 rounds of each, not 1 of the WWB expanded. AllisonDT is right on, the 9mm WWB JHP I tested all cloged and overpenetrated.

I'll stick with HST and similar premium SD loads. Be careful with WWB JHP and other lesser quality ammo. for overpenetration and collateral damage.

If you want reliable JHP it cost more.

Sigbear

NG VI
January 10, 2010, 06:35 PM
No, but thanks anyway.

My standard pressure, run-of-the-mill 230-grain JHP's perform fantastically.

I'll just buck up to 10mm or .44 Magnum if I need more punch.

I'm not gonna dig deep into my wallet to fix what ain't broken.

By all means, continue the entertainment.

Then there is always the standard pressure 230 HST, which works about equally as well as the +P version, just with lower recoil and lower energy. ta-da!

Oh and it is the cheapest modern (not 1980's vintage) JHP duty/defense bullet available. And +P doesn't cost anything extra, no matter how many times someone grumbles that it is a "marketing ploy" or an excuse to jack up prices.

That is pretty impressive. I will have to look into some. I especially would be interested in some for the .380, if they make it.



No .380 HST as of now, I doubt they'll introduce one. There is supposedly a .38 Special HST, or there was going to be one, but I've never seen any or heard of anyone who bought any.

pbearperry
January 10, 2010, 06:45 PM
If you ever test these rounds into a large hunk of beef,please show those results.Also,if you live near me maybe we can do it together and then BBQ the beef?

RockyMtnTactical
January 10, 2010, 07:22 PM
This JHP stopped right in between jug 3 and 4. The pic you see of it halfway in the the jug is in the 3rd jug. It had just barely punctured the 4th one which was trickling water.

In comparison to the Tactical Bonded, it sure splashed me a lot more with the HST but the Tactical Bonded stopped in the 4th jug. Expansion was not as impressive though. Pics coming soon.

RockyMtnTactical
January 10, 2010, 07:40 PM
OK, here is the Tactical Bonded vs the HST (both 230gr +P). The TB penetrated into the 4th jug, but the mushroom is less dramatic.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_6381.jpg

In this picture (below), you can see all of the TB bullets we tested. The one in the center was shot through a pickle jar first to simulate a glass barrier (may not be totally realistic, I am sure a windshield is much harder to penetrate, but it was a barrier of some sort nonetheless). You may be able to see some glass shards imbedded in the lead. The bullet was obviously much more deformed than the others but it stayed together pretty well and still expanded very well, as well as penetrating to the 4th jug.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_6386.jpg

The two bullets flanking the center JHP were both shot through into bare jugs. As you can see one of the petals sheared off of one of them. All bullets penetrated into the 4th jug. Even the sheared petal of the JHP on the left was recovered in the 4th jug as well.

Hope you guys enjoy.

LeonCarr
January 10, 2010, 07:58 PM
The .45 230 grain +P HST is what is in my M&P .45 right now. I chrono'd them, and they averaged 922 fps, compared to 867 fps average for the standard pressure .45 230 grain Hydra-Shok. Either one will get you through the night.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

shootr
January 10, 2010, 08:22 PM
I like what I read of the HSTs and similar rounds, but I shoot 230 grain FMJ because it's less expensive and it feeds reliably 100 percent of the time. If I habve to double tap, so be it.

RockyMtnTactical
January 10, 2010, 08:42 PM
I like what I read of the HSTs and similar rounds, but I shoot 230 grain FMJ because it's less expensive and it feeds reliably 100 percent of the time. If I habve to double tap, so be it.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice. I would count on shooting until the threat has been stopped. Multiple shots is almost guaranteed in any self defense shootout, if you want to win. Even with good JHP's.

okespe04
January 10, 2010, 08:55 PM
I keep Remington UMC 230 grain JHP in my norinco 1911a1. It cost me $54 to run the two boxes of ammo through it to see if it fed well and was accurate. To be honest I was very surprised with the accuracy and it fed 100 rounds without a hitch. A cheap Norinco 1911a1 and a couple of boxes of crappy ammo and there is one more citizen walking around with a full sized .45 that no bad guy would want to be standing in front of. I do however find this thread quite promising. At Roughly $30 a box I am inclined to pick some of this Federal HST up (if I can find it) and see how my Nork likes it when my budget will allow it. For now I will carry my Nork loaded with umc jhp with confidence. Thanks for the info on what looks like some pretty sweet ammo.

Hatterasguy
January 10, 2010, 09:46 PM
I like that round, when I get my 1911 those are going in my self defense mags.


In a defensive sistuation you want every advantage you can get, and those things look pretty potent.

moooose102
January 10, 2010, 10:19 PM
If I habve to double tap, so be it.

i hope that if you NEED to double tap, you HAVE the time to do so! the problem arises when you have two people who have other plans for your life (as in ending it), and you have to double tap to put the first one down. for my money, i will shoot a round that will do the job with one shot if it is possible. reguardless of cost. my gun has no problem feeding hollow points, and realisticly, even if they were $5.00 a round, how little is your life worth? what about your wife, or childrens life?

CPshooter
January 11, 2010, 02:03 AM
I use .40s&w 180gr HST for my .40s. Love the stuff. I use Federal HST or Speer Gold Dots exclusively for all my JHP needs. Both are great. The Winchester Ranger T. looks pretty decent too.

Nice pics btw!

Wahoo95
January 11, 2010, 10:57 AM
Federal did decide to restrict direct sales to LE, however there is more to the story. I believe it had more to do with money, since they created a new brand under which to sell/market to civilians. Do a little search for "Homeland Defender's" Fear No Evil ammo. It's essentially HST in a newly branded 20rd box at the same price as the standard stuff sold in 50rd boxes.

NMGonzo
January 11, 2010, 11:01 AM
$30 for 50 rounds of premium ammo ain't a bad price. If you can buy premium ammo at better prices, please share.

/Now we are talking!

All that worries me is overpenetration and ricochets.

Hollow points should reduce the risk if I am doing my part.

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