30-06 Muzzle brake


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kestak
January 11, 2010, 11:45 AM
Greetings,

What muzzle brake would you recommend on a 30-06 rifle?
I will install it on a Savage 110.

Thank you

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ArmedBear
January 11, 2010, 11:51 AM
None.

Muzzle brakes on centerfires are more trouble than they're worth, unless the gun has recoil higher than a .30-06.

If you must, contact Savage. They have one. It's especially nice, because it can be turned off at will. Should you ever go on a guided hunt, or want to hunt with someone else, you can pretty much plan on leaving your gun with a brake at home, unless you can remove or disable the brake.

TIMC
January 11, 2010, 12:29 PM
I had a KDF brake installed on my model 700 in 30.06. Theyare loud but work very well reducing recoil.
http://www.kdfguns.com/KDF%20MB%20Layout.html

ArmedBear
January 11, 2010, 12:31 PM
Kraft durch Freude?

X-Rap
January 11, 2010, 12:44 PM
Should you ever go on a guided hunt, or want to hunt with someone else, you can pretty much plan on leaving your gun with a brake at home, unless you can remove or disable the brake.
__________________

Were do people come up with this stuff? Is it written in contracts, regulations, or man law?

ArmedBear
January 11, 2010, 12:51 PM
Nobody wants to sit next to you when you shoot a gun in a real caliber with a brake. I'd tell him to leave the gun, myself. Ported shotguns are typically not welcome in blinds, either. See the hunting forum here for plenty of examples of guys who would send someone home if that's all he had with him. I would.

Have you ever sat next to someone who fired a good-sized centerfire with a brake on it?

X-Rap
January 11, 2010, 01:13 PM
Two of my three kids started hunting with a 30-06 and 280 with breaks on them and still use the same guns. My dads wife uses a break on her 280, my dad uses a break on some of his guns, 300's & 338's as do I including a 338-378 so yes I guess you could say I have been around a few and think its a little over dramatic to make the statements you have made, especially to a possible novice asking for advise.
I also have a few friends that shoot at our range that have breaks on 300 WM's
What is a real caliber in your view?

627PCFan
January 11, 2010, 01:15 PM
In a few African countries, muzzle brakes are illegal when hunting. Some guides in the US wont have anything to do with them either.

dubbleA
January 11, 2010, 01:22 PM
Holland's, Vais, KDF all will do a great job in reducing felt recoil and muzzle jump. You can get a thread protecter also when you desire not to have the brake on the rifle, but be aware that the barrel harmonics are affected and POI can change. I find it no big deal and the brakes are always screwed on my firearms. I have 2 sitting on my desk that need to installed as I type this.

Have you ever sat next to someone who fired a good-sized centerfire with a brake on it?

Yeah, guns are loud.... get over it. Always wear eye and ear protection:banghead:

X-Rap
January 11, 2010, 01:56 PM
They shoot broken rifles?
__________________

That brings a lot to the discussion, I'm a shooter not a typist
Yeah, guns are loud.... get over it. Always wear eye and ear protection
I am in Colorado and have never shot over a feeder if on the range I use ear protection in the field no.
I am still waiting to hear how you come up with such a definitive statement as your first. I know a few guides and many hunters and you are the first I have ever heard mention a MB as being forbidden in the field.

usmc1371
January 11, 2010, 02:13 PM
I would say it comes down to YOUR own personal prefreance. Me personaly I would not put a break on an 06. I also wouldn't think of shooting the 338-378 with OUT a break again. Does the brake reduce recoil, yes, does it make the gun louder for the shooter and much much louder for any onlookers, yes. If the upsides out way the down sides to YOU then by all means put a nice break on your 30-06 and enjoy shooting an 06 with 223 recoil.

ArmedBear
January 11, 2010, 02:17 PM
That brings a lot to the discussion, I'm a shooter not a typist

<Noise removed by Art>

Right about now, I don't think too many guides are picky about who their paying clients are, or what they're shooting. Hopefully, for the sake of our country, they will one day be financially able to be choosy.

Do what you want, including sitting next to your kid shooting a gun with a brake on it. I won't.

rcmodel
January 11, 2010, 02:27 PM
My feeling is that most shooters, whether they realize it or not, are bothered more by blast & noise then the actual recoil of a gun.
Until you get past .300 Mag levels of recoil anyway.

The bottom line is, brakes are just plain obnoxious to shoot without double ear protection, or to even be around when someone else has one next to you on the firing line.

rc

X-Rap
January 11, 2010, 02:36 PM
As far as the OP's question, most of the BRAKES that we have on our guns are done in the barrel by a local smith and are his design so I can't help with a specific model that is better than another and would agree that starting with the maker of the gun is a good idea. As far as putting one on a 30-06, it depends upon your sensitivity to recoil. If it lets you comfortably shoot the 06 rather than a 243 than I say go for it and shoot a heavier bullet of larger diameter. (no down side to that with big game)

X-Rap
January 11, 2010, 02:48 PM
RC I would agree with you with the exception of a child or woman of smaller stature.
My kids never used the typical entry level calibers like the 243 that i often hear recommended but instead started with larger calibers and were able to shoot them enough to become very proficient at 12yrs old. My daughter had to have the stock shortened on her 280 and her little brother used it until he was big enough to use his 06 with a full stock and no BRAKE, the oldest used a 760 06 with a BRAKE and then moved up to 300 Weatherby. My dads wife would not hunt if she didn't have a BRAKE on her gun, it is probably mostly perception with her but it is what it is.
None of my kids have issues with recoil now that they are grown, I can't say if their early guns made any difference or not.

briansmithwins
January 11, 2010, 03:22 PM
A good brakes will reduce recoil and control muzzle rise. The downside is blast. The more effective the brake is the more blast it produces. I use a brake on my AK in 7.62x39 that I shoot at rifle matches. I can take follow up shots faster but I use earplugs AND electronic earmuffs to make it comfortable noise wise.

The only way to get around this is to install a suppressor. Those are very effective at slowing the blast of muzzle gas that produces the rocket effect that increases recoil. They also reduce the sound levels, of course.

A good rifle suppressor will run you $500+ and the $200 tax stamp.

BSW

X-Rap
January 11, 2010, 03:31 PM
And be illegal for hunting in many locals. I wish I had one in 22 and 30.

Oldcoyote
January 11, 2010, 05:16 PM
I bought a .416 Rigby and later added a Vais brake because it was killing me. It helped a lot. Out of courtesy, I do not set up right next to people at the range.

The people in Africa did not complain about the noise. I did not want to trade it for a smaller caliber as I liked the way it killed eland, buffalo and elephant.

This topic is a hot one whenever it comes up. :evil:

NCsmitty
January 11, 2010, 06:49 PM
If you are sensitive and need to deal with the recoil of a 30'06, then you should start at other end of the rifle, not at the barrel. There are a multitude of stock-mounted recoil reduction components that work very well, as well as managed recoil ammunition.
A 416 Rigby, or any large caliber that's .375 or larger, burning copious amounts of powder, would benefit from both proper fitted stock with the stock-mounted recoil reduction and a muzzle brake.



NCsmitty

Oldcoyote
January 11, 2010, 07:22 PM
The managed recoil loads are a great idea. Remington makes them and Hodgdon has reloading data. With 125 grain mild loads, the 06 kicks like a .243.

Maverick223
January 11, 2010, 07:56 PM
Nobody wants to sit next to you when you shoot a gun in a real caliber with a brake. I'd tell him to leave the gun, myself.+1

In a few African countries, muzzle brakes are illegal when hunting. Some guides in the US wont have anything to do with them either.Really...illegal...why?

If you are sensitive and need to deal with the recoil of a 30'06, then you should start at other end of the rifle, not at the barrel. There are a multitude of stock-mounted recoil reduction components that work very well, as well as managed recoil ammunition.Amen, I despise a brake unless it is absolutely necessary...in which case I generally despise the rifle system. Start with a good recoil pad, add weight and/or a mercury recoil reducer. A properly fitting rifle is also important.

:)

Uncle Mike
January 11, 2010, 08:17 PM
<.....>

Just kidding....all I know is, a 300 Weatherby Mag sportin' a KDF will absolutely shred a package of targets on the next bench....

....and snow, man, that thing will throw 3 pounds of snow up in the air, shooting prone in the winter! And you know where all that snow goes.....?

Brakes do reduce recoil, smooth out the gas transition...or to say, most of the waste gas is diverted 90 degrees to the line of departure of the bullet, so turbulent gas doesn't overtake the bullet as harshly....supposed to cause less turbulence imparted to the bullet.

My 300WBY shoots almost 1" lower, give or take, WITH the brake on than with it off the barrel.
The blast noise will cause cows to miscarriage! But it sure does lessen the recoil!

Txhillbilly
January 12, 2010, 12:14 AM
If the noise level's of guns with muzzle brakes hurts your sensitive little ears,then all you babies complaining about them need to find a new hobby.

Note-Shooting firearms is loud whether with or without a muzzle brake,wear hearing protection.

I don't think anyone ever puts a muzzle brake on their gun just so they can piss people like you off at the range.

I'm sorry about the rant,but everytime someone ask about putting muzzle brakes on their rifles these guy's have to come out with all the negative comments and personal opinions that other members get tired of reading.

Until you start buying my guns and ammo,don't tell me what to do or not to do to them.

noob_shooter
January 12, 2010, 12:19 AM
com'on, you can handle the recoil of a 30-06 round..

EP1990
January 12, 2010, 12:33 AM
I stuck a Brake on a savage 110, 30-06. I was making it just for practice. I ended up leaving it on their because it made it a lot more comfortable to shoot.

dubbleA
January 12, 2010, 12:38 AM
If the noise level's of guns with muzzle brakes hurts your sensitive little ears,then all you babies complaining about them need to find a new hobby.

Note-Shooting firearms is loud whether with or without a muzzle brake,wear hearing protection.

I don't think anyone ever puts a muzzle brake on their gun just so they can piss people like you off at the range.

I'm sorry about the rant,but everytime someone ask about putting muzzle brakes on their rifles these guy's have to come out with all the negative comments and personal opinions that other members get tired of reading.

Until you start buying my guns and ammo,don't tell me what to do or not to do to them.

+ 1000 Amen brother, seems that there are some that just want to whine and complain:banghead:

Maverick223
January 12, 2010, 01:01 AM
If the noise level's of guns with muzzle brakes hurts your sensitive little ears,then all you babies complaining about them need to find a new hobby.If the recoil of guns with a little energy hurts your sensitive whittle shoulders, then all you cupcakes complaining need to find a new hobby.

^Fixed it for you. :D

Uncle Mike
January 12, 2010, 01:09 AM
You guys play nice now!:neener::D

Maverick223
January 12, 2010, 01:13 AM
You guys play nice now!...but, but, but...he started it. http://forums.nitroexpress.com/images/graemlins/smilies/general/thblissysmile.gif

ms6852
January 12, 2010, 01:15 AM
I have a savage 110 in 30-06 and had the gunsmith put in a Vais muzzle break after I dislocated my shoulder before deer season. Shoots like a .223 but sounds like a howitzer. Ensure you pay for a tread protector that way you can take off the break when you go to the range, it helps by not setting off the car alarms every time you fire a round.

R.W.Dale
January 12, 2010, 01:50 AM
my biggest beef with a muzzle brake is the wanton butchering of the English language that results anytime their use is debated

A BRAKE is a device used for the arresting of motion

A BREAK is something you take in order to eat lunch


LEARN IT PEOPLE!


I've never kept a gun with a brake much more than a couple weeks. Even wearing hearing protection the deflected blast from our awnings at the range is enough to make my sinuses hurt.

The last ported rifle I had got a grand total of 4 rounds put through it before I sent it down the road

elmerfudd
January 12, 2010, 03:44 AM
To me a muzzle brake is only really desirable on a military rifle or an absolute bruiser that needs something to tame the recoil.

Most of the time I find muzzle blast to be more unpleasant than recoil. I had the opportunity a couple years ago to fire a Barrett M99 thanks to the generosity of a forum member here. The recoil wasn't any worse than a 12 gauge, but the concussion made it feel like you had been whopped upside the head with a 2x4. You felt it in your eye sockets, your teeth and your sinuses. I would have gladly endured far more recoil if it would have reduced the concussion.

You obviously don't have that situation with a 30-06, but a brake still markedly increases the blast.

Mr_Pale_Horse
January 12, 2010, 11:12 AM
Worst case example: Shooting my flintlock next to a guy with a 50 BMG with a brake. I prime the pan, he shoots, my priming it gone, along with my patches, range rod, targets, paper towels, basically anything not metal on my shooting bench.

A BREAK is something you take in order to eat lunchIf you can install that on a gun, I'll take one :D

X-Rap
January 12, 2010, 11:42 AM
Wow this topic really does bring out the Wennies or is it Winies. Sore shoulders or sore ears, torn targets, I think Brakes have been known to tear the very skin from puppies and kittens.
I posted on their use for three 11&12 yr old kids, a older woman of small stature, a 70+ yo man and a rifle that without one would probably be unmanageable. What I read is comments from a bunch of drama queens that claim they get their sinuses blown out, benches cleared, laws broken and the sounds of artillery. Next there will be claims of mental anguish.
Guns have recoil, guns make noise. Those are some of the things that make me shoot. Maybe that is the appeal of the video games to some, no recoil and a volume control.
Grow up and try some constructive commentary.

Uncle Mike
January 12, 2010, 12:09 PM
Ensure you pay for a tread protector that way you can take off the break when you go to the range, it helps by not setting off the car alarms every time you fire a round.

But, often the POI will change, so.....?

Worst case example: Shooting my flintlock next to a guy with a 50 BMG with a brake. I prime the pan, he shoots, my priming it gone, along with my patches, range rod, targets, paper towels, basically anything not metal on my shooting bench.

Hehehehe....:what:

I think Brakes have been known to tear the very skin from puppies and kittens.

Oh...it is just horrible! Knock the feathers off a penguin, they will!

A BRAKE is a device used for the arresting of motion
A BREAK is something you take in order to eat lunch
LEARN IT PEOPLE!

It's going to come down to passing a literacy test and obtaining a 'Internet forum posting license'! lol hehehe;)

Mr_Pale_Horse
January 12, 2010, 12:12 PM
Using a muzzle break at a crowded public range is like cars with high wattage subwoofer sound systems, loud tuned exhaust systems, or diesel pickups with tricked fuel pump settings and stove pipes exhaust or stacks.

I once thought they were cool, might even have wanted one (when I was twelve). Now they seem an expensive waste (if I'm paying) and rude bordering on boorish.

X-Rap
January 12, 2010, 12:33 PM
I feel sorry for you crowded public range guys. My bench belongs to me so I don't worry about offending and you won't have to have one of my rude and boorish children or retired 2nd grade teacher step mom offending all you big strong gun guys out there.:rolleyes:

R.W.Dale
January 12, 2010, 12:41 PM
I feel sorry for you crowded public range guys. My bench belongs to me so I don't worry about offending and you won't have to have one of my rude and boorish children or retired 2nd grade teacher step mom offending all you big strong gun guys out there.

What's with the attitude?

here's something to ponder. When your kids are 30 and can't hear anything they'll have nobody to blame but daddy and his fetish for braked guns. I'll not let my children be around much less shoot a braked centerfire rifle. Heck just give em a pack of marlboros while your at it since long term injury seems to be your goal

Now's where you tell us that you never notice the noise shooting at game in the field....as it the harm still doesn't occur


MORE

And yes, there is some Disadvantage to muzzle brakes. The increase of muzzle blast is substantial. They can be VERY LOUD and damaging to the ears! The risks can be diminished hearing with some permanent hearing damage. Regular earmuffs can reduce noise levels by 25dB +/- while the sound levels of a muzzle brake magnum can be as high as 128dB +/-
meaning noise levels with earmuffs on are in excess of 100dB !! A hunter in the field shooting without protection, will experience immediate, and near complete temporary hearing loss. Hearing returns after three or four minutes, but a small portion of hearing is permanently lost each time a shot is fired.

At Rifle-Accuracy-Reports, we recommend that all long-range shooters wear earplugs and earmuffs, or even better, wear the high quality Electronic Hearing Protective Muffs. This combination will reduce about 52dB of damaging noise. That would bring levels down to 76 - 80dB!! And always instruct people around you, (such as guides or hunting partners) to cover their ears or put plugs in before you shoot. Always pack extra ear plugs. The moldable putty type ear plugs would be good to wear and would make a great gift for the guide.
Top-of-the-line hearing protection comes from companies such as Walkers Game Ear, E.A.R. Inc., Silencio, Radians, Pro Ears, and Cabelas.
http://www.rifle-accuracy-reports.com/MuzzleBrakes.html

Fremmer
January 12, 2010, 12:47 PM
I've shot a .270 with a magna-port installed on the barrel, and it worked pretty well. IIRC, I would estimate that recoil was reduced about 20 or 25%. Magna-port has a good reputation. I'd go with that. It was loud, though. And hearing damage is a real issue. And increased retort can also make you flinch!

I would respectfully state that you might first consider using reduced recoil commercial rounds, or hand-load your own reduced recoil rounds. Add a good recoil pad, too.

If that doesn't work, I would consider going to a softer shootin' round. Perhaps a .25-06.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide!

Uncle Mike
January 12, 2010, 12:52 PM
I shot that 300 of mine with the KDF on it without any ear protection once....once!

was hunting...I know for a fact, if a feller was to shoot that cannon, or any other rifle with a brake, I suppose, with out hearing protection too many times, permanent hearing damage would result!

X-Rap
January 12, 2010, 01:05 PM
What's with the attitude?

here's something to ponder. When your kids are 30 and can't hear anything they'll have nobody to blame but daddy and his fetish for braked guns. I'll not let my children be around much less shoot a braked centerfire rifle. Heck just give em a pack of marlboros while your at it since long term injury seems to be your goal

Now's where you tell us that you never notice the noise shooting at game in the field....as it the harm still doesn't occur


Attitude! Now that's funny, take a look back to the OP and then ask yourself that question again.
The guy wanted advise and what he got mostly was BS about how he would or should be treated like some leper and false impressions about where and when he could use one.
Then the grammar Nazis showed when they had nothing else to contribute. Now the bad daddy and db charts are coming out. This one is definitely on the low road and can't last much longer I just hope the OP can glean a little info from it, I'm sure he learned a little about some of us.

R.W.Dale
January 12, 2010, 01:08 PM
I'm still waiting for a comment on the hearing damage aspect. Which is a thread full of opinions yours and mine included is one of the very few facts set fourth


it's not like you've added anything beyond

"I shoot brakes and you're a sissy if you're concerned bout your and the hearing of folk's around nearby"


TO the OP: DON'T

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=214115&highlight=brake+vanguard

I've been in the exact situation and every gun I've had a brake installed on I came to despise after a very brief love afair

kestak
January 12, 2010, 01:14 PM
Greetings,

ok ok ok.. I won't install a brake or break or thingy at the end of my gun! :what:
I won't look for it either and destroy all the bookmarks related to it in my IE.

Just to fighting!!!!! I can't take it anymore!!!! :neener:

Thank you
P.S.: I am looking at the VAIS or JTAC one now. I have a JTAC on my AK and it works great.

Mr_Pale_Horse
January 12, 2010, 01:18 PM
To the OP and X-Rap,

Sorry to come off flippant before. In all seriousness, in my opinion based on first hand experience and numerous objective reports with respect to noise levels, muzzle brakes are dangerous (and expensive) addons and I recommend against them.

Uncle Mike
January 12, 2010, 01:23 PM
I am looking at the VAIS or JTAC one now.

Are you thinking of putting a JTAC brake on a bolt action 30-06?

X-Rap
January 12, 2010, 01:23 PM
Hunting without ear protection will damage hearing, that is a fact. I don't hunt water fowl and shoot hundreds of rounds in a blind. During BG season I do my best to limit shots to the one that is needed. I always use hearing protection at the range and shooting prairie dogs and the like. I don't find it acceptable to wear muffs or plugs while hunting in my environment so yes I do subject myself to a limited amount of unprotected gunfire. I know of no one who wears hearing protection while hunting big game so I hardly feel out of place.
Your db info is based on noise reduction but doesn't reflect the variation of different calibers and brake styles which does make a difference in the end.
As far as my input relating to the OP, I think I have given him some info that at least can help him make a decision not based on some irrational notion that his internals will turn to mush and his wife will leave him for a more traditional man. (my turn for drama)

kestak
January 12, 2010, 01:32 PM
Greetings,

Yes, I am thinking about it. It is a 30 caliber and it works great on my AK. Is there a problem that I am not aware?

Thank you

elmerfudd
January 12, 2010, 01:42 PM
Hunting without ear protection will damage hearing, that is a fact.

Exactly, and the more noise a rifle makes the more your hearing will be damaged. Brakes result in a noisier environment for the shooter. Now if you're shooting a .50 BMG then you need something to reduce the recoil, but for a 30-06? I was shooting one two days after shoulder surgery and it didn't bother me.

X-Rap
January 12, 2010, 02:41 PM
Well elmer if you look at the context of my comment for the lighter calibers it reflects it shows I am referring to those of smaller stature than grown men.
As krocus has noted I'm a bad father but I feed my kids fried food too.
My reason for getting my kids on a larger gun than a 243 or similar is simple. We live where you can hunt deer and elk and there are pretty good opportunities for kids in late season for elk. Contrary to what many say I don't consider many calibers under 280 to be effective for elk so all my kids started on bigger guns with brakes.
This allowed them use bigger guns and spend more time on the range and made them better shots. This has worked for me and I will do it for my grand children.
FWIW my daughter shot her first elk at 12 yrs. and weighed less than 100# with a 280 at around 100yds prone in the snow. She is not deaf and has shot many BG animals in the subsequent yrs. with the same rifle.

Fremmer
January 12, 2010, 04:49 PM
Are you thinking of putting a JTAC brake on a bolt action 30-06?


Could someone who knows about the JTAC brake please comment about putting it onto a bolt action .30-06? :banghead:

Maverick223
January 12, 2010, 05:55 PM
Could someone who knows about the JTAC brake please comment about putting it onto a bolt action .30-06?My knowledge of breaks is far more than that of brakes (but I do know that Hawk make good brake pads)...but, I think that if the brake is made for an AK the problem would lie with the thread size/pitch (unless specifically threaded for AK muzzle devices).

:)

Art Eatman
January 12, 2010, 05:58 PM
Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between THR and a day nursery. This thread ain't hardly THR.

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