what brand pistol for war?


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Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 04:12 AM
if you were shipped to iraq/afghanistan, and could carry any pistol, which one would it be (this of course would be secondary to your rifle, which is for another thread).

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silent flatulence
January 12, 2010, 04:18 AM
My H&K usp .40. No fruity knockoffs of the USP, and no gun with some goofball beavertail to keep me "safe."

9mmepiphany
January 12, 2010, 04:23 AM
there aren't too many guns more suited to the environment there than the Beretta M-9...i'd just like some good mags to go with it...it hapens to fit my hand really well and i love the huge ejection port

legion3
January 12, 2010, 06:03 AM
Glock!

PAPACHUCK
January 12, 2010, 06:58 AM
My XD45 Tactical would be my choice.

harmon rabb
January 12, 2010, 07:09 AM
i'd be inclined to say a xd45 or xdm40 ... but i don't know of any pistol that has the long service record and that has passed the same grueling tests as the beretta 92FS.

therefore, i'd probably take that with me.

Sapper771
January 12, 2010, 07:36 AM
While I was in Iraq, our berettas were not doing so well in the sand/dust. Even without the sand/dust, our berettas were not doing so well. That is my personal experience with them, YMMV.

The Iraqi Police's Glock 19s never had a problem.

Arabs wear shemaghs by the way. Most of the time the shemagh represents their religious back ground or where they hail from. Its about the same as others wearing a cross around their neck to show their religious faith, or a tattoo of their family's coat of arms. Sometimes the shemagh doesn't represent anything, it is just a good thing to protect your head , face, and neck from the desert environment.

johnnylaw53
January 12, 2010, 07:37 AM
I fine it stange that so far glock is the most perfer, i went with the beretta since that is what I own now and it what the military use over there. The 1911 was a great pistol for war and could still be if we went back to it. But if I had to go fight another war for this country I would want what was mostly carried there just in case I needed some spare parts.

be safe

John Parker
January 12, 2010, 07:42 AM
Countdown to this thread getting shut...

And, it's easy to call an Afghan lungee a turban. Many Pashtuns wear them.

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 07:45 AM
from what i've heard, a lot of the issues with berettas in iraq stem from the army's propensity torwards purchasing cheap mags.

i also don't think that open top slide is conducive to optimum functioning in a sandy environment.

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 07:54 AM
hmm so far glock is ahead. i figured that would happen.

someone i know that's a private contractor in iraq says the overwhelming majority of people than can choose their sidearm choose glock 9mm's.


they can be covered in that powder like sand over there and keep on running. :)

Elvishead
January 12, 2010, 08:09 AM
To carry a 1911 in af is like bringing chicken to a steak house.

Or better yet, asking KFC to cook your steak MR.

And I don't even like or hate Glock's, it just a super light, accurate, and reliable gun.

1911 heavy, Glock super light. Do the math. Or maybe we should go back to the M1 also.:uhoh:

XavierBreath
January 12, 2010, 08:15 AM
In all honesty I would want a 1911 tuned for reliability. A Government Model, with good fast sights, and a lanyard loop. Something along the lines of the MEUSOC pistol.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=113128&stc=1&d=1263298398

On the moderatin' side, play nice, drop the accusations and name calling, or I will shut this thread down post haste and start handing out low road tickets. Don't make me do that.


:mad:

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 08:15 AM
the same private contractor i know mentioned that he met some navy seals over there that pooled their own money together to order some para gi expert 1911's.

he also mentioned there's folks carrying le baers and ed browns over there and they work great.

i'd carry a 1911 over there, but i like being able to slap a 33 round mag in my g19. :)

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 08:16 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=113128&stc=1&d=1263298398

now that 1911's seen some service :)

XavierBreath
January 12, 2010, 08:40 AM
A pistol is a last ditch weapon to get me to an automatic rifle. I prefer speed, accuracy and power. Hmmmm That could be a motto or something. Maybe if we said it in Latin.....

FMJ, That's weird. I would think that if the Navy SEALs wanted a particular brand of 1911, the manufacturer would leap at the chance to send them all they wanted just to get the endorsement. Only Colt would be too stupid to say no......

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 08:54 AM
FMJ, That's weird. I would think that if the Navy SEALs wanted a particular brand of 1911, the manufacturer would leap at the chance to send them all they wanted just to get the endorsement. Only Colt would be too stupid to say no..

well the person i heard it form is a mod on another forum i always chat with. he said the seals he met are paying for them with their own money, it's not being issued or paid for by uncle sam, and so far 50 seals have pooled their money together. the gi experts are really cheap, often less than $500, but they are very nice guns, my friend.

i have one, and the fit quality is nothing short of impressive. it's a totally reliable tack driver (made differently than all para's other models).


this is my review of my gi expert on here, incase you're interested :)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=495030

XavierBreath
January 12, 2010, 09:11 AM
I'm trying to steer this train back on the rails, so I'm not going to discuss the veracity of this claim. I'm not disputing it either, just saying it's odd.
That endorsement would be all Para would need to sell a whole lot of pistols. A lot less than Todd Jarrett makes.....

19-3Ben
January 12, 2010, 09:20 AM
I picked M&P because I've had so much good experience with the M&P, but I'm re-thinking my vote.
I want compatibility with what other people have there, so I'm gonna go with either Glock or Beretta.

Although, if I have 5 mags (17rnd) for the M&P, so if it's just a backup to the rifle anyway, really how important is compatibility. I mean, so long as the rifle is compatible with the rest of my peeps in the sandbox, I can't imagine needing more than the 85+1 rounds of ammo that I'd have on me with the pistol and 5 mags. Remember, it's just a backup weapon, not the primary.

So perhaps I will stick with the M&P.

Voland
January 12, 2010, 09:38 AM
1911. proven... really though people will answer with what they know and like best. no answer is wrong.

v.

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 09:40 AM
hmm 1911 is catching up to glock.


on a side note, i can't believe someone voted for taurus. i just threw that one in the poll as comic relief.

12Bravo20
January 12, 2010, 09:49 AM
1911
I have personal experience with using a 1911 in that environment during Desert Storm.

K9american
January 12, 2010, 09:56 AM
"hmm 1911 is catching up to glock."

1911 just passed Glock.
I have one of each.

:)

The Bushmaster
January 12, 2010, 10:46 AM
It's hard to beat a weapon that has seen us through four wars, many skermishes and over 100 years...

1911

X-Five
January 12, 2010, 10:51 AM
If it's good enough for the SEALS, Sig P226, it's the BEST!

dom1104
January 12, 2010, 10:58 AM
All of those pistols are "good enough" with the possible exeption of Taurus.

I would go with the glock. its lighter than a 1911. and for a sidearm, light weight is a priority.

So yep Glock for me. and it would probably never leave its holster if I had a ar15 in my hands.

NG VI
January 12, 2010, 11:33 AM
Whatever I was issued. Not going to bring a personally purchsed weapon to war ever.

Robert
January 12, 2010, 11:37 AM
Sorry but only in Imagination Land can one carry a personal weapon in a war zone. So the correct answer is either nothing as I am not serving, or what I am issued.

19-3Ben
January 12, 2010, 11:39 AM
I can't believe that we've made it to page two and no pedantic poster has mentioned that 1911 is a model/platform, not a brand.

I'm so proud of us!!!:D

EddieNFL
January 12, 2010, 12:06 PM
Just thinking that, Ben.

I couldn't find a suitable brand to vote for, so I went with the closest category.

KenW.
January 12, 2010, 12:28 PM
So, for 1911 I'd select what I know and carry to work every day.... Kimber. Seems they supplied some to the USMC not too long ago.

REAPER4206969
January 12, 2010, 12:37 PM
All on your list except Taurus.

GlockFan
January 12, 2010, 12:39 PM
I have a Glock and would have to vote for it. Not only because I have had 0 issues over 15 years but also do to the availabilty of parts and mags already in wide use there.

Justin
January 12, 2010, 12:43 PM
What pistol would I carry in war?

Well, presuming that I found myself conscripted into military service as an infantry soldier (highly unlikely) I suspect that if I were issued a sidearm (also unlikely) that the pistol I would choose to carry would be the one they issued to me.

smoketheresfire
January 12, 2010, 12:43 PM
I'll mimic what a guy in another thread wrote and say "whatever the guys next to me are carrying".

Manco
January 12, 2010, 12:49 PM
I picked M&P because I've had so much good experience with the M&P, but I'm re-thinking my vote.
I want compatibility with what other people have there, so I'm gonna go with either Glock or Beretta.

Weren't some M&Ps sent over to Iraq for the police and military forces there? I wonder how it's faring in that environment.

19-3Ben
January 12, 2010, 12:57 PM
Were they? I never heard of that. I'd love to learn about that if they were. If anyone can fill in info, please do!

racine
January 12, 2010, 01:14 PM
I think the primary goal is to survive and I'd vote Glock hands down.
Rational; Proven platform with 22 years of reliability and over 150K rounds downrange myself. One of the lightest pistols available. Uses hicap mags with extreme reliability. One of the easiest to fieldstrip, repair and maintain. No corrosion issues. Tough frame stands up to abuse well. Eats every kind of ammo available (no reloads used in war). Only one downside-not pretty or tacticool enough.
If it was a hollywood war then I'd bring my HK, 1911 or BHP. ; ^ )

NG VI
January 12, 2010, 01:28 PM
Weren't some M&Ps sent over to Iraq for the police and military forces there? I wonder how it's faring in that environment.


Well they have also received a lot (think I read somewhere in the neighborhood of 125K+ for Glock 19s alone) of Glock 19s and S&W 9VEs, so it wouldn't surprise me if they got M&Ps as well, though it seems that it might be getting excessive.

NelsErik
January 12, 2010, 01:33 PM
Both of my brothers carried CZ's in addition to their issued Sig's.

smoothdraw
January 12, 2010, 01:52 PM
Mil-Spec 1911. when LEO and MIL buy firearms, there are always politics, lobbyist and cost/budget restraints. Not that i'm saying this is bad because our gov need to budget but it can't beat a civilian that can select the best weapon without this constraits. So Kimber uses by LA Swat, Sig's used by Navy, 1911 replaced by Baretta by US govt, those kind of stuff have small influence on me now.

481
January 12, 2010, 02:05 PM
Permitted the unlikely "luxury" of picking my sidearm prior to going in harm's way, especially in a dusty, sandy environment with little in the way of repair shops, I'd pick the Glock 17/19.

Routine cleaning and maintenance can be satisfied with some pilfered motor oil, a small piece of cotton cloth (T-shirt) and five inches of improvised cleaning rod.

If it gets really filthy and needs a complete detail strip and cleaning to set things right or an "on the spot" repair, I can accomplish either with nothing more than a 3mm Hex wrench and a small parts "repair kit" that'll fit in a small shirt pocket, consisiting of a few crucial small parts (three trigger springs, one firing pin and three springs, 3 sets of firing pin spring cups, three spacer sleeves, two complete guide rod units, two firing pin safeties w/springs and an entire extractor/plunger assembly) in under five minutes.

The "expedient" capability to maintain, service and repair the Glock 17/19 with little more than 5 minutes, some oil and a 3mm punch is where the Glock shines, the "other choices" not so much...

EddieNFL
January 12, 2010, 02:08 PM
Sorry but only in Imagination Land can one carry a personal weapon in a war zone. So the correct answer is either nothing as I am not serving, or what I am issued.
It's a theoretical exercise. I chastise the OP for not including a disclaimer for the literalists.

BlayGlock
January 12, 2010, 02:18 PM
Ill second 481 ^^. That man is a gentleman and a scholar. Or at least his answer leads me to believe as much.

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 02:18 PM
That endorsement would be all Para would need to sell a whole lot of pistols. A lot less than Todd Jarrett makes.....

yep i was thinking the same thing. para would be very foolish not to advertise this...

well the guy's a mod, so i assumed what he was saying was true lol

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 02:22 PM
Sorry but only in Imagination Land can one carry a personal weapon in a war zone. So the correct answer is either nothing as I am not serving, or what I am issued.



ever heard of private security contractors? they are generally issued glocks by the company they work for, however they can also choose to carry what they like in most cases.

my OP makes no mention of being in the military. (but just to mention there are some in the military that can carry what the choose-seals for expample).

some folks just like to complain...:rolleyes:

EddieNFL
January 12, 2010, 02:26 PM
I was being sarcastic.

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 02:29 PM
oh ok eddie, i took your quote out my friend, didn't catch the sarcasm. sorry, just woke up lol :)

millertyme
January 12, 2010, 02:53 PM
Sorry but only in Imagination Land can one carry a personal weapon in a war zone

Wrong. My cousin was just in Iraq and has been recalled for service in Afghanistan. I asked him this question. You will be issued and expected to carry all that you are issued. You can choose to carry other stuff (one guy decided to carrry a big ass knife for which he was made fun of over and over again), but that's the beauty of it all, YOU HAVE TO CARRY IT. My cousin said he carries what he's issued plus another 90 rounds for his rifle, a couple extra hand grenades, a folding pocket knife, and an additional 200 rounds for his SAW gunner. Calls it his "insurance". If you have to rely on a pistol for your self preservation in a warzone during battle then something has gone seriously wrong. Besides, you're already carrying close to 100 pounds or more. Do you really want to carry anything you don't need?

I don't know any of you personally and I don't know what your real-world wartime experience is. I know my cousin and that's what he told me.

Back to the OP's question/poll. I'd take a Glock. Despite not liking the way they fit in my hand, I'm positive that I could get used to it given the track record Glock pistols have and the condtions of being at war.

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 03:01 PM
millertyme-

thanx, informative post :)

Full Metal Jacket
January 12, 2010, 03:06 PM
All on your list except Taurus.

reaper-

i thought you were a huge taurus fan? :evil:

481
January 12, 2010, 03:22 PM
Ill second 481. That man is a gentleman and a scholar. Or at least his answer leads me to believe as much.

Gentleman? :scrutiny: Scholar? :scrutiny: Eh, I've been called worse. :D

All kiddin' aside...Thank you for the very kind words. :)

Like your signature line, too. You come up with that on your own or is it a quote from elsewhere?

BlayGlock
January 12, 2010, 03:38 PM
My quote is an amalgamation of political thought. The "skeleton" of the quote was pulled from a Dean Koontz novel, but then I fixed it for him.

BushyGuy
January 12, 2010, 03:46 PM
why does it always have to be a SIG or Glock? didnt they ever toture test a Ruger? i have torture tested a Ruger and i think they are in par with the SIg or Glock. i support Team America!

Team Ruger and Team Bushmaster- both born and bred in USA!

481
January 12, 2010, 03:50 PM
BlayGlock,

Nice job, putting it together. I'd bet Koontz would approve!

Hatterasguy
January 12, 2010, 03:51 PM
Glock 17; large mag capacity, 9mm ammo is easy to get, its light which matters in 120 degree heat.

Most importantly it will go bang everytime you pull the trigger.

My second choice would be a Sig P226.

481
January 12, 2010, 03:57 PM
why does it always have to be a SIG or Glock? didnt they ever toture test a Ruger? i have torture tested a Ruger and i think they are in par with the SIg or Glock. i support Team America!

Team Ruger and Team Bushmaster- both born and bred in USA!

It doesn't, that's why there is a poll at the top of the thread. No right or wrong answer, just what best fits your "sense of mission".

legion3
January 12, 2010, 05:17 PM
i support Team America!

Team Ruger and Team Bushmaster- both born and bred in USA!

Didn't they blow up Paris? That was the group Alex Baldwin of the Film Actors Guild (FAG) was going after wasn't it?

Do you drive an American car? Remember just because it says Ford or Chevy doesn't mean that it wasn't made in Canada or Mexico ;)

silversport
January 12, 2010, 05:33 PM
I think I would prefer the 1911 type but would like the capacity of the GLOCK...so I voted GLOCK...
Bill

KBintheSLC
January 12, 2010, 06:51 PM
There are several on the list I would gladly choose. I picked Glock because I am sure the Army could get 'em for cheap, and they do work. Just thinking... I would hate to be reduced to a handgun in a war/battle. Once it gets down to that... your time is probably running short.

Bliggida
January 12, 2010, 07:10 PM
GLOCK unlike many weapons (not all) is purpose built as a weapon of war. Others mentioned 'tuning' their weapons for the conditions. The beauty of what makes a GLOCK really shine is that it is built on the sole premise of rugged reliability. Comparing to Beretta's, GLOCK tolerances are very loose. Allowing mud, sand, dirt etc. to flow through and out, and requiring little oil as the surfaces don't interact as much. This is fairly similar to the AK-47 and why it is so effective.

As others mentioned there are other benefits including simple and easy field stripping and cleaning. And the ability to change calibers easily and quickly.

That is not to say other weapons are difficult, or cumbersome. GLOCK simply has a well constructed package that works in any environment its put in.

On the flip side, even though AR's hate sand, and love oil. I would still want to keep an AR-10 as my primary long-arm. Sometimes our prejudice just gets in the way and carries a heavier vote.

SideArmed
January 12, 2010, 07:49 PM
Here is my rant, this is what I believe so I challenge people to it:

the 1911 is my favorite design and will probably always be but......... it is the last pistol I would think to take to a war. I define this as the standard 7/8 rd 1911 design.

What is the factor?

-Limited Capacity

In battle, who is to say what situation you find yourself in? I can carry one pistol on my right side. The fact that one has nearly twice the capacity of the other is worth thinking about. I would not want to be thinking about how many shots I have left after I squeeze a few off and when I need to change mags. Nor the general idea of carrying extra mags with half the rounds. Carrying a 1911 not topped off with 8rds is a scary thought to me.

What if you find yourself in a shootout, pistol vs pistol, caliber vs caliber, and your enemy is carrying a hi cap pistol? You would be at a disadvantage from the start.

The opinion that "I can shoot it the best", "i shoot it the most", " it's what the pro's use", "it feels the best", "its my favorite"...etc is all subjective. If your subjective thoughts persuade you to carry this pistol, just know you are putting yourself at a disadvantage round count wise to every guy out there who carries higher capacity.

Picture yourself in a pistol gunfight. Equal calibers, equal number of rounds. One weapon is high capacity weapon with 1 mag, another a low capacity weapon with 2 mags. What do you choose?

Again, if business is business, ..... it is one of the last sidearms I would have in battle given the list.

A 2011 or high cap 1911, I would change my opinions so keep that in mind.

roaddog28
January 12, 2010, 07:59 PM
For me a CZ75b or a 1911. All though not on the list a third generation Smith and Wesson model what ever caliber you can shoot the best or how about the reliable Ruger P95. I would rate the P95 as reliable as a Glock and also not as good looking. But the P95 would at least as good a option as Glock in combat.

roaddog28
January 12, 2010, 08:05 PM
why does it always have to be a SIG or Glock? didnt they ever toture test a Ruger? i have torture tested a Ruger and i think they are in par with the SIg or Glock. i support Team America!

Team Ruger and Team Bushmaster- both born and bred in USA!
I agree. The Ruger P95 or any of the P series are durable easily to clean and will eat just about any ammo. They are not pretty but would do the job. I had to add another post because the thread is overlooking Ruger pistols.
roaddog28

Madcap_Magician
January 12, 2010, 08:16 PM
Assuming ammo availability, I would probably take an XD .45 compact or an M&P .45 compact, or a Glock 21SF.

Reason being all of our available ammo is ball, so I want to make the biggest holes possible.

I am not a fan of basically anything on the issue M9. Unit consensus is that we'll take pistol grip only shotguns over M9s.

A pistol in Iraq or Afghanistan needs to be as reliable as possible and able to run in bad conditions, i.e. sand and muck.

REAPER4206969
January 12, 2010, 08:21 PM
I am not a fan of basically anything on the issue M9. Unit consensus is that we'll take pistol grip only shotguns over M9s.
M9 Maintenance: Vickers' Advice

> Make sure it's properly maintained and serviced. Make sure the recoil spring is replaced every 5,000 rounds. If you're not sure about the recoil spring, replace it with a factory replacement spring from Wolff (part #40613). Cost is less than $8.

> Don't run your M9 dry. Lube it properly.

> Beg, buy or steal OEM Beretta magazines. Beretta offers a military grade, sand-resistant 15-round magazine (part #JM9A115) for the 92/M9 for $45. If you have to use GI contract magazines, use an oil soaked wire brush to smooth the inside of the mag body. Remove all oil and reassemble using Wolff magazine springs (part #74061). Magazine springs are less than $8 each. If you cannot beg, buy or steal Wolff magazine springs, use the factory spring but only load 10 rounds. Then keep your magazines as clean as possible.
The cause for M9 problems is lack of maintenance/lubrication and poor quality low bidder aftermarket magazines. Please read this:

http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=230&Itemid=78

dondavis3
January 12, 2010, 09:22 PM
Beretta 92 F

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/Beretta92FInox9mm4.jpg

Been doing a good job for a long time.

Colt ,45 did alright too :)

Ala Dan
January 12, 2010, 09:27 PM
1911 in .45 ACP~!

Rexster
January 12, 2010, 09:41 PM
The OP did not specify that one had to be military, and since some few lucky civilian contractors might be allowed personal weapons, I will play. As a private contractor, I am figuring there will be no armorer support.

My choice, of the ones listed: 1911. I can take one all the way down, quickly, with no manual or other guide, using improvised tools. And the 1911 fits my hand OK; Les Baers fit my hand superbly.

Glocks are OK, but they don't fit my hand, and I can't shoot them very well because of that. If I can't shoot it well, why carry the bulk and weight? Better to have a couple more mags for the rifle. If Glocks did fit me, I might well have chosen a G19 or G26. A couple of my co-workers took leaves of absence, to work 13 months in Iraq, and they used G19s. I really do WISH Glocks fit me.

SIGs, well, the P229 and P226, anyway, fit my hand superbly. I use P229s as duty/carry weapons, here in the USA, but total takedown is a bit more problematic, requiring tools that may be more difficult to improvise. I very nearly answered SIG, but the more complicated takedown outweighed the other factors. If I knew I could have the specialized tools with me at all times, a spare stash of those tools in another accessible location, and knew I would have a clean, well-lighted place to work, well, I would probably have gone with SIG. Remember, as a private contractor, I am figuring there will be no armorer support.

A sentimental part of me wanted to answer FN, for the Hi-Power. I haven't owned a BHP since the mid-1990's, and can't recall how difficult they are to take down and repair.

Autolycus
January 12, 2010, 10:52 PM
I would take a Glock 17 or a Sig P226R. I voted Glock because I think it is the definition of a combat pistol. It is rugged, reliable, combat accurate, lightweight, high capacity, and comes in a decent caliber.

sprice
January 12, 2010, 11:08 PM
I choose the jericho (so I selected the cz-75 cause it's about the same)

X-Rap
January 12, 2010, 11:29 PM
I picked Glock, I have many of the others but aside from the H&K when I think of a gun I would stake my life on the Glock always comes up.
Parts, Mags, and durability tips the scale in favor of the Glock over the H&K.

Manco
January 12, 2010, 11:57 PM
Assuming ammo availability, I would probably take an XD .45 compact or an M&P .45 compact, or a Glock 21SF.

Reason being all of our available ammo is ball, so I want to make the biggest holes possible.

With "ball" ammo only, I'd take 9mm because it offers something that every soldier could use in war: more balls. ;) But seriously, the holes made by either caliber are small, so I'd want to make as many of them as I could in as many of the enemy as I could (self-defense using JHP rounds being a different situation).

545days
January 13, 2010, 12:10 AM
If I had to do it again, and had my choice, I would carry whatever was lightest. For me it would be a badge of rank more than a weapon. My days of doing tactical stuff for my generous Uncle Sam are long gone.

I suspect I would be stuck at echelons above reality editing PowerPoint slides put together by some hapless Major.

CornCod
January 13, 2010, 12:20 AM
If I were in a war zone and carried a handgun it would be a Browning Hi-Power in 9mm. It might or might not be the best handgun in the world but it is the handgun I have fired the most rounds through in my adult life. I can shoot the BHP accurately and after 20+ years of shooting it, I find its operation instinctual.

MachIVshooter
January 13, 2010, 12:35 AM
None of the above. Assuming it is to be a 9mm for ammo supply:

S&W 5906.

If I were allowed to bring my own ammunition, It'd be my 4516-1 with my 1,080 FPS 240 gr. Sierra JHC handloads. As much a 10mm nut as I am, that 4516 carries much nicer than my 1006.

Sapper771
January 13, 2010, 05:02 AM
Some of the issues I saw with the M9 was with the magazines, but not all. Out of the 15 or so Berettas that I had contact with the most had issues with the extractor or the locking block/locking block pin that is under the barrel. One of my friend's M9s would fire 3 rounds then stovepipe the fourth one. He could clear it and it would do the same thing over and over, wierd.

The wind is always blowing over there, so when the sand storms kicked up , sand and dust gets into everything. The M9s would start choking up a bit, but so did some other weapons too.

My team made a gun run to Balad/LSA Anaconda once. I had to go by armorer's shop to pick up some parts and ran into the privately contracting gunsmith. I asked him which weapons he had the most trouble out of, he told me that the M9s were on top.

Not trying to bad mouthing the Beretta. I had an Italian Beretta once , and it shot great. In my experience , the berettas that we were issued were not up to the task.

I heard that there was a program for soldier to supply their own sidearms. I didn't hear about this program til after I had returned. Turned out that my unit's armorer didn't want the extra hassle. Our EOD asset got to carry their personal weapons. I read that a popular gun rag writer carried his Remington Rand 1911 over in Iraq. It was something about signing the pistol in with your unit armorer, he puts it in the books as if it was part of the arsenal, then the armorer signs it out to you , just like any other firearm.

MICHAEL T
January 13, 2010, 04:07 PM
HI point in 45 reliable combat accurate and if I loose it cheap to replace Military should issue to all troops Better than that Beretta. Its at least made by a American Company :D

CWL
January 13, 2010, 04:09 PM
I'd not carry a pistol, instead, I'd much rather use the space and weight for another 3 rifle magazines.

If you are ever in a unit action where you need a pistol, there will probably be extra M4s on the ground for you to use.

dondavis3
January 13, 2010, 06:33 PM
MICHAEL T

Are you saying that a High Point is better than a Beretta? :what:

dfunde01
January 13, 2010, 06:47 PM
BHP 9mm without reservation.

TG13
January 13, 2010, 07:42 PM
XD45 Service, or Tactical..

if not an XD, then it would be a double stack polymer 1911.. in 45 ACP..

Strahley
January 13, 2010, 07:44 PM
Glock no question

mljdeckard
January 13, 2010, 07:44 PM
I would pack my Kimber Custom II and 500 rds of HSTs. BUT, if you were asking what I would choose to outfit and train my inexperienced soldiers, I would take a case of Glock 17s.

Full Metal Jacket
January 13, 2010, 07:47 PM
HI point in 45 reliable combat accurate and if I loose it cheap to replace Military should issue to all troops Better than that Beretta.


:eek::eek::eek:

JZ06
January 13, 2010, 07:49 PM
Glock.:evil:

SideArmed
January 13, 2010, 07:50 PM
I'd not carry a pistol, instead, I'd much rather use the space and weight for another 3 rifle magazines.

If you are ever in a unit action where you need a pistol, there will probably be extra M4s on the ground for you to use.

What if you find your primary malfunctions/breaks and you don't see an M4 for grabs??

I would think extra M4 mags/ammo would be easier to get off a battlefield/friendlys than to stumble on an abandoned rifle.

Sidearm? Yes please

my name doesn't mean I'm biased :D

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