why you like beavertails


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silent flatulence
January 12, 2010, 06:37 AM
Just a question for those of you that have guns with beavertail safetys. Why do you like beavertail safetys?

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Drail
January 12, 2010, 10:44 AM
Shoot a couple of hundred rounds of hardball from a 1911 with out a beavertail and it will be clear to you.

BHP FAN
January 12, 2010, 11:32 AM
So you don't get the ''G.I. bite''[web of the thumb caught under the hammer] ...that said,I have both.

Zach S
January 12, 2010, 12:59 PM
They're more comfortable, especially since I shoot high-thumb.

My mil-spec bit me once. A few strokes of the file and a little cold blue and it never did it again. Long range sessions didnt bother me that much.

Mags
January 12, 2010, 01:36 PM
Don't care for beaver tails but I like my 1911 and XD. I have never bought a gun because of its designed safeties. Safeties are not even on my list of things to consider the lack therof is a much better option.

smoothdraw
January 12, 2010, 02:12 PM
Shoot a Colt WW1 reproduction and grip it high. You may like beavertail afterwards. it boils down to ergonomics.

BossHogg
January 12, 2010, 02:18 PM
I don't need a grip safety for my .45.http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/3145032216_946aa86a3f.jpg

Sam1911
January 12, 2010, 02:23 PM
A beavertail safety, in conjunction with some other modifications, can allow you to seat the gun lower into your hand. Having it lower into your hand means that the axis of the bore is lower, which gives the gun less mechanical advantage to torque upward in recoil. Having the recoil come more straight back rather than twisting upward allows you to control the recoil energy more easily, which allows you to get back on target faster for follow-up shots.

In general, the lower into your hand you can sink the gun, the faster your "split times" (hundredths of a second between aimed shots) will be.

-Sam

smoothdraw
January 12, 2010, 02:52 PM
I don't need a grip safety for my .45.http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/3145032216_946aa86a3f.jpg
And with the looks of it you will not be able to do high hand grip either.

Geneseo1911
January 12, 2010, 02:55 PM
Perhaps my hands aren't as fleshy as the average, but I've tried to get the gun low enough in my hand to experience the infamous "hammer bite", and I simply can't do it. I will say that after a hundred rounds or so, the web of my thumb does start to get a bit sore, but I think that's just the sharp edges that need to be knocked down. Now, my 1911 is a Springfield, and I understand they have a different radius on the grip safety as opposed to the original design, so maybe that's why?

Sam1911
January 12, 2010, 03:06 PM
my 1911 is a Springfield, and I understand they have a different radius on the grip safety as opposed to the original design They have a different geometry to the frame horns that ride on either side of the GI style grip safety spur. That means that there isn't enough material there to cut them down to the larger radius of "standard" beavertail safeties without leaving gaps. They just require a model of G.S. cut to the radius that you can get.

Regarding sinking the gun down into your hand, you may or may not get hammer bite. But you won't be able to get the gun AS low with the standard GI profile as with a well-shaped beavertail.

It isn't just the grip safety itself. A well-set-up grip safety allows a surprising amount of material to be removed from the frame itself, which really gets you a lot of clearance.

Add that to a "high-grip" cut on the front strap, and the gun will sit down low enough that 'most anyone will need the wide safety to keep their flesh from getting nipped.

-Sam

Geneseo1911
January 12, 2010, 03:12 PM
10-4. Thanks Sam, I've been wondering about that...

So the drop in beavertail safeties you see in catalogs are just cosmetic items that don't actually solve any problem, the real deal involves removing material from the frame as well to get the bore axis lower into the hands, correct?

Sam1911
January 12, 2010, 03:23 PM
Well, yes and no. The drop-in ones can help folks who's hands do get bitten by the conventional hammer with the GI safety.

But to get all the benefits, you'll want to remove some metal from the frame.

-Sam

Walkalong
January 12, 2010, 03:41 PM
I could take them or leave them. I have never had slide bite from any 1911.

12131
January 12, 2010, 06:24 PM
Beavertail on a 1911 is just plain sexy. On any other guns, it's just grotesque, imho. Just look at a Sig with a tail.:barf:

Sam1911
January 12, 2010, 06:52 PM
On any other guns, it's just grotesque, imho.The CZs that are set up with one look pretty sweet, though.

Like the SP-01:

http://leiko.powernet.cz/eshop/images/shadow.jpg

Sweet!

-Sam

12131
January 12, 2010, 07:15 PM
The CZs that are set up with one look pretty sweet, though.

Like the SP-01:
Nah, I've seen and handled it. The beavertail is just not at home, if it's not on the 1911. jmo, of course.

1KPerDay
January 12, 2010, 07:29 PM
I have a glock with a beavertail. Hideous.

1KPerDay
January 12, 2010, 07:31 PM
So the drop in beavertail safeties you see in catalogs are just cosmetic items that don't actually solve any problem, the real deal involves removing material from the frame as well to get the bore axis lower into the hands, correct?
They do solve the problem, or make it better at least, however the fit between the frame and the safety is necessarily much more loose, with gaps, etc. And they don't really "drop in". You generally have to fit them a bit. Easy for experienced guys, hard for me.

MCgunner
January 12, 2010, 07:33 PM
Because I'm heterosexual....

I don't like 'em on guns. I don't like 1911s anyway, but big beaver tail grip safeties dig into my love handles. I don't like that.

modifiedbrowning
January 12, 2010, 08:00 PM
I don't like 1911s anyway,
Then you are obviously not a heterosexual.:neener:

As far as beaver tails are concerned I couldn't care less. I have one SW 1911 with one and a Colt LW Commander without one. I've never had a problem with hammer bite and the recoil from a 1911 without the beavertail doesn't bother me.

1KPerDay
January 12, 2010, 08:02 PM
Then you are obviously not a heterosexual.
lol :D

Sam1911
January 12, 2010, 08:11 PM
recoil from a 1911 without the beavertail doesn't bother me

Just for clarity, when I said that seating the gun lower in the hand helps with recoil control, I wasn't suggesting that it makes an uncomfortable gun more comfortable to shoot, or an uncontrollable gun easy.

I was specifically making note of the fact that the lower bore axis produces less torquing which will let you shoot the gun FASTER.

You can shoot either style just as accurately as the other. The beavertail and higher grip (all other things being equal) simply increases your speed.

-Sam

pbearperry
January 12, 2010, 08:14 PM
I don't like beavertails because they get in the way of my thumb when I try to cock the hammer.They slow me down.

jigglyjames29
January 12, 2010, 08:21 PM
I don't think I'd get a 1911 without one. Why? Mainly just for looks.

Sam1911
January 12, 2010, 08:30 PM
I don't like beavertails because they get in the way of my thumb when I try to cock the hammer.They slow me down.
Hmmm. Well, that is a refreshingly unique perspective. Probably won't be a problem for most folks, but not everyone likes to tread the well-traveled road.

-Sam

The Lone Haranguer
January 12, 2010, 08:53 PM
The beavertail-grip-safety-equipped 1911 is more comfortable to shoot than the standard grip safety, and allows a higher hold on the gun which I prefer (and accounts for some of the abrasion and pinching I've experienced with standards).

jigglyjames29
January 12, 2010, 08:59 PM
Question:
Do people with skinny hands ever experience hammer bite?

dondavis3
January 12, 2010, 09:16 PM
It feels better in my hand.

Kimber in .45 cal.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/Kimber45CrimsonTraceGrips2.jpg

:)

MCgunner
January 12, 2010, 10:23 PM
Then you are obviously not a heterosexual.

I ain't the one in love with JMB AND Jeff Cooper. :rolleyes:

Sam1911
January 12, 2010, 10:26 PM
Uh, Don, there's a .40 S&W case stuck in one of your .45 ACP empties...

-Sam

dondavis3
January 12, 2010, 10:33 PM
+1 Sam1911

Good catch - I sure never saw it :):)

MICHAEL T
January 13, 2010, 04:01 PM
In general, the lower into your hand you can sink the gun, the faster your "split times" (hundredths of a second between aimed shots) will be.

I don't play shooting games so a few 100's of a sec to me isn't important I am sure I can fire fast enough in a SD situation . To much junk being hung on 1911's that are for gamers and Gun writers insist we need on a carry pistol and factory adds because they can jack price . Need a good trigger, sights, and reliability . I have never been bit by a 1911 but of course I hold it low Like it was designed to be held. I carried a USGI with better fixed sights and trigger job for a long time I never felt under gunned Because I didn't have a beaver tail .front slide serrations. Full length guide rod ,wide paddle ambi safety or a extended slide release .or that it rattled if shook Col. Cooper pretty much kept his guns simple
I can live without the beaver tail on a carry pistol But then I am old and set in my ways only own and carried these things for 40 yrs.

Oyeboten
January 13, 2010, 04:11 PM
As for me, I don't like Beaver Tails, and, I do not prefer the raised Mainspring Housing of the A-1 configuration.

Got 'bit' once, on the first shot when I first had a 1911, realized my error, corrected my error, never got bit again.

It's very easy to merely hold the Pistol correctly and securely, thus avoiding any Hammer nips.

And, one tends to shoot better, holding the Pistol correctly, anyway.

CWL
January 13, 2010, 04:12 PM
I have a scar in the web of my right hand from hammer bite. That's one reason why I prefer beavertails.

Second reason is because I use a high grip and the beavertail is a way to consistently grip my M1911s.

WarMachine
January 13, 2010, 05:30 PM
Beavertails allow a higher grip, and I find them immensely more comfortable. Small'ish slivers of steel don't play nicely against the web of my hand. I've never experienced hammer bite, however. And they are not "junk" by any stretch.

Demitrios
January 13, 2010, 05:32 PM
I have a 1911-A1 with the old style grip safety and while I've never gotten hammer bite from it the edges on it do dig into my hand a bit. The beavertail is just a lot smoother and more comfortable, but it ultimately depends on your hand and what you like.

JZ06
January 13, 2010, 07:47 PM
From the very first time I shot a G.I. style 1911 I hated it. The beavertail is the best(For me, and obviously a bunch of others).:D

JZ06
January 13, 2010, 07:48 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b237/JZ06/IMG_0172.jpg

That's a 1991 NRM with a Wilson drop in. No metal was removed. It fit like a glove and boy it shot well after it was done!

The Lone Haranguer
January 13, 2010, 07:55 PM
Question:
Do people with skinny hands ever experience hammer bite?
I have skinny hands. I have not experienced actual hammer bite, i.e., my hand caught between the hammer spur and grip safety tips. I have experienced abrasion where the grip safety tip dug into the top of my hand, and - on a different gun - pinching/cutting where the grip safety was poorly fitted and left a gap between the grip safety and frame cutout.

jigglyjames29
January 13, 2010, 08:10 PM
Yeah, I have skinny hands and have never experienced it either. I was wondering if there were any members on here with skinny hands that DO. Hah, from my username, people probably think I'm 300 lb or something.

Jed Carter
January 15, 2010, 05:42 AM
It's Beaver and Tail, whats not to like?

76shuvlinoff
January 15, 2010, 07:05 AM
I don't like beavertails because they get in the way of my thumb when I try to cock the hammer.They slow me down.

.... then let the slide cock the hammer like God intended. ;)

Blakenzy
January 15, 2010, 07:17 AM
'Cause it helps avoid the following, plain and simple.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=264865&highlight=1911+hands

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=55428&d=1174792118

Hacker15E
January 15, 2010, 07:22 AM
Well, may not be what God intended, but I guess that's what cavalry officers intended, since the 1911 ended up with a big fat spur hammer that was perfect for cocking by thumb.

makarovnik
January 15, 2010, 05:07 PM
Good old rat tail for me with a semi-bobbed spur hammer. Use the add on rubber front strap grip with the finger grooves, use a rounded mainspring cover and go ahead and hold it a little lower.

csamanie
January 15, 2010, 06:32 PM
I see you have Star PD like the one I have. I love this gun, it is perfect for CCW. I have owned mine for 20 some years. Just lately I replaced the buffers on my gun.

mordechaianiliewicz
January 15, 2010, 07:50 PM
I was wondering how long it would be before someone made a sex joke.

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