38 s&w ?


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kanook
January 13, 2010, 06:06 PM
I'm looking for somebody to help me out with this. What I need are the older factory loaded 38 S&W dimensions. Not what the manual says. If you could take one out and measure it.

The newer Remington ammo is .381 at the base of the brass after the rim, .379 before the crimp and after the crimp is .356 with a COL of 1.296

It is 146 grain too

Just trying to figure out if they changed it a little or if it's the lighter grain making the difference. (which it shouldn't at the base)


Thanks for your help, Kanook

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MutinousDoug
January 13, 2010, 07:13 PM
Sorry,
I re-read your post and see you are asking for actual cartridge dimensions.

Old Fuff
January 13, 2010, 07:14 PM
The newer Remington ammo is .381 at the base of the brass after the rim, .379 before the crimp and after the crimp is .356 with a COL of 1.296

One of my older Lyman handbook (1994) picked at random has:

.386 at the base of the brass after the rim, .3855 before the crimp and after the crimp is .3610 with a COL of 1.240. Overall case length = .775

146 grain bullet weight has always been standard.

As a side note: .38 Special case diameter is shown at .379

kanook
January 13, 2010, 08:55 PM
I'm kinda thinking that they are using 38 special cut down.

Old Fuff
January 13, 2010, 09:05 PM
You need to measure one of the actual cartridges, or if you can't find a gunsmith who can. There have been reports of .38 S&W rounds fitting in .38 Special chambers, which is something they shouldn't do. :uhoh: :confused:

tef
January 14, 2010, 10:09 PM
I have four 38 S&W cartridges that came with my grandfathers Iver Johnson revolver. They must be at least 50 years old - two Peters and two Westerns. The Peters measure 1.197 over all length, .383 at the base, .381 next to the crimp, and .356 for the bullet. The Westerns measure 1.173 over all length, .384 at the base, .381 next to the crimp, and the bullet outside the case is about .35. The Western bullets, unlike the Peters bullets, appear to be plated and seem to be heeled like a 22 LR bullet in that they easily spin in the case and are sort of crimped where the ogive starts. None of them will chamber in a 38 Special, although the Westerns do go in about one quarter inch. I have no intention of firing the gun so have not pursued commercial loads or reloading.

tom

ArchAngelCD
January 15, 2010, 04:02 AM
38 S&W
Bullet diameter - .361"
Neck diameter - .3855"
Base diameter - .3865"
Rim diameter - .440"
Rim thickness - .055"
Case length - .775"
Overall length - 1.240"

I'm kinda thinking that they are using 38 special cut down.
I highly doubt a .38 Special case is being used to make .38 S&W ammo but the "Parent Case" for both the .38 S&W and .38 Special is the .38 Long Colt. That case is also the parent case for the .38 Auto (9X23mm), .380 ACP, .38/200 and .38 Super. (yes I know the 38/200 and .38 S&W are the same except for the bullet weight)

kanook
January 15, 2010, 02:26 PM
So I just pulled a bullet and measured it, .356 almost .357

So what does this mean to me, the 38S&W is a small call for Remington and they are going to use undersized bullets and I should keep my eyes open for some other brand or I need to get my handles and start pouring my own for this one also.

Thanks for the help people. I will soon find out if the case splits or not as they say it will if the special case might if it's cut down.

Dalerj
January 15, 2010, 03:00 PM
Kanook, I have a .380 webley and till I could get some 38S&W brass I used 38spl brass cut short. It worked just fine. Never had a split case. Fired the cases about 10 times each with fairly light loads and no problems other than slightly bulged cases.
38 S&W cases were available from Starline. I bought some and they are really good. Have been shooting the same 1000 for 10 years . No problems at all shooting .360 195 grain lyman cast bullets .
With the standard factory sights at 35 feet they hit about 2 inches high.
I made a small damn around the factory sight with the gun laying on it's side. Mixed up some accra glass with dark stain and added some height to the front sight. Took away the mold damn and with some file adjustment have a gun that hits to point of aim. A lot of fun to shoot wwii type guns. Good luck with your project.
Be careful, your gun may be looser than mine and could cause you problems. Start with low power loads and get correct brass as soon as you can.

Old Fuff
January 15, 2010, 07:42 PM
So what does this mean to me, the 38S&W is a small call for Remington and they are going to use undersized bullets and I should keep my eyes open for some other brand

Frankly, if this is what they are doing I'd be a bit surprised - and disapointed. I suggest that you call Remington, give them the lot number printed on the inside of one of the box end flaps, and ask them to explain.

Some custom bullet molders do offer .360 sized bullets, but they won't go into a cut-down .38 Special case. If you want to do much shooting handloading is a "must," because of the high cost of commercial ammunition. The question of getting case splits is largely determined by the brittleness of the case, and the diameter of the chamber.

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