Store in Pennsylvania Gets $27 Million in Tax Subsidies (Cabela's)


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Drizzt
January 20, 2003, 06:38 PM
Store in Pennsylvania Gets $27 Million in Tax Subsidies

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.


HAMBURG, Pa. (AP) — An outdoor superstore featuring a 30-foot indoor mountain replica, a 55,000-gallon walkthrough aquarium and a shooting gallery is getting $27 million in taxpayer funds for its building costs.

The $59 million Cabela's Inc. store, scheduled to open this fall, has the potential to anchor a tourist destination similar to the theme park built by Hershey Foods Corp., according to state officials.

The state expects the store to attract 6 million visitors a year, the same number generated by a Cabela's in Dundee, Mich., and to spur other development in a region hit by factory closings and a declining coal industry.

Area residents say they welcome the 225,000-square-foot store and the 600 jobs it will bring. As many as half of the jobs are expected to be part-time.

In a news release announcing the Cabela's project in October, Gov. Mark Schweiker called the superstore ``one of the most significant employers to move into this region in decades.''

A store dedicated to hunting and fishing, popular pastimes in the area, makes sense to help rebuild the economy, said Stephen Herzenberg, an economist with the Keystone Research Center, a think tank. He questioned, however, whether the large incentive, which amounts to about $45,000 a job, is necessary.

Cabela's began pushing for subsidies four years ago. The weak economy was ``great incentive'' for state and local officials to work with Cabela's, said Ed Eckman, the company's site locator.

The store expects to generate $58 million to $75 million in sales a year and an estimated $3.5 million to $4.5 million in sales taxes, state officials said.

Hamburg is about 60 miles northwest of Philadelphia.

http://wire.ap.org/APnews/main.html?FRONTID=NATIONAL&STORYID=APIS7OM157O0

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AK103K
January 20, 2003, 06:41 PM
There goes my "tax free" orders.:(

Greg L
January 20, 2003, 07:04 PM
If they're going to give subsidies (which I don't agree with for anyone) at least it is going to something like Cabela's rather than Nordstrom or some other retailer that caters to the suburban soccer mom crowd.

Greg

EJ
January 20, 2003, 07:52 PM
Greg L If they're going to give subsidies (which I don't agree with for anyone) at least it is going to something like Cabela's rather than Nordstrom or some other retailer that caters to the suburban soccer mom crowd.

Exactly--

I have no use for Cabela's --other than I appreciate that they sell firearms--etc--

And I have no use for subsuidies--

But if we have to have one at least it occasionally goes to the other--

Gordon
January 20, 2003, 08:04 PM
Cabela's has always given me GREAT service, better than anyone else! They should be allowed to keep THEIR MONEY (taxes) and employ more people. The steel mills around there look pretty dismal.:banghead:

Cougar
January 21, 2003, 07:47 AM
I personally don't agree with the whole idea of subsidies or tax abatements in general. In reality, it is nothing more than extortion on the part of the business. AKA 'Give us money or we'll take our tax revenue elsewhere'.

This is no different than the NFL holding cities hostage over building new palaces for the teams to play in. Our new Cleveland Brown's Stadium cost the county taxpayers over $350million for those overpaid players and greedy owners to play in. The stadium is used how many days of the year? What a waste of taxpayer resources, especially since the Cleveland city's schools are literally falling apart. Gee, do you think the city would build me a $350milliion facility for a business that I want to start that would employ 125 people? Oh, the best (saddest) part is that Cleveland only gets the income tax revenue of Home Game Days, not practices or games that are held somewhere else.

Another example of tax abatement abuse was a manufacturing company that built a huge facility in one of the Cleveland west side suburbs. They got a ten-year tax abatement as part of the relocation deal by the suburb. As soon as the abatement was due to expire and they would have to start actually paying taxes, they move shop to another city five miles away that offered them another abatement. Now the suburb has a huge vacant 'white elephant' facility that they can't find a tennant for. The sad part again is that the company still gets a tax write off for the vacant, unused facility. How is this right? :scrutiny:

Waitone
January 21, 2003, 08:46 AM
Govenor of Pa is none other than Ed Rendell.

Rendell is a drooling, knee-jerk gun grabbing socialist.

What will be the reaction when Rendell puts the arm on Caleba's and says, "The stat of PA will not subsidize the retailing of evil firearms."

Then what?

Joe Demko
January 21, 2003, 08:51 AM
Before we start blaming Ed Rendell (who will do enough evil on his own), let us stay focused on the fact that this took place during a Republican administration. So did the construction, at taxpayer expense statewide, of two sports stadia in Pittsburgh. I've said it before and I'll say it again , Democrats and Republicans = one snake with two heads.

Gordon
January 21, 2003, 10:30 AM
I don't get it why should a business subsidize almost ANY tax use I can think of. I'm for not paying any taxes if I had leverage to do so I'd use it!

Cougar
January 21, 2003, 10:35 AM
I forgot to mention that not only did the city of Cleveland build the new football-only stadium, but they also footed the bill for the new baseball stadium (Jacobs Field) and basketball/hockey arena (Gund Arena). The combined outlay from the County taxpayers was over $750 million. That's three-quarters of a billion dollars for the new professional sports facilities.

The justification? "We have to maintain our status as a 'major league' city." :rolleyes:

[/ :cuss: ]

Cougar
January 21, 2003, 10:38 AM
Gordon,

That's the whole point! These companies do not have to pay taxes, and the burden then falls to the poor working-class schmucks (like us) to take up the slack. :banghead:

UnknownSailor
January 21, 2003, 12:14 PM
My question:

What strings come attached to these tax dollars?

As we all know, if you get public money, most of the time you have to take the rules and regulations that come with it.

Blackhawk
January 21, 2003, 12:18 PM
If this is a typical tax incentive deal, PA taxpayers aren't shelling out $27 million. There ISN'T any $27 million. PA just agreed to not collect $27 million that Cabela's would otherwise have to pay in the future in exchange for them building in that location. It's a win-win deal because the economic generator the store will be provides jobs and a bunch of revenue coming into the area. What was the area before, run down housing, fields, etc.?

Bottom line is a Catch-22. Cabela's wouldn't build without the tax breaks, but if it did, it would have to pay $27 million in taxes, but it wouldn't build without the tax breaks....

Idiot analysts get caught up in pulling nonsensical numbers out of the air and writing stories about what tax subsidies "cost" the taxpayers. Fine, increase the taxes on the rundown housing areas by $27 million....

SJG26
January 21, 2003, 12:42 PM
Or at least the town - yep-Hamburg - that's me.
I posted on TFL on the same issue.........my rant has to do with the 20 yr tax forgiveness......granted its money we never "had", but we will "pay" for the additional municipal services (police, medical, fire) strip mall sprawl, traffic noise and crime that inevitably follow 6 million shoppers per year.

I like the area as is, not quite suburban, little more than rural. An before anyone else states how could it will be ask yourself - would I want a mall across the street??

Blackhawk
January 21, 2003, 12:46 PM
I like the area as is, not quite suburban, little more than rural. An before anyone else states how could it will be ask yourself - would I want a mall across the street??No problem. Just don't let them build on your land.

Oh, it's not YOUR land...? :rolleyes:

SJG26
January 21, 2003, 01:00 PM
The township supervisors even pulled a fast one on some of the landowners. The property is composed of several parcels......2-3 were willing to sell outright......2 others weren't quite sure and did not like the "deals" that were made. When they tried to reconsider selling, the township (Tilden) threatened to condem the land(leaving the owners nothing)and then subsequently "auctioning" the land to a holder for Cabelas.
I attended all the meetings and have a full idea of the "goings on".

Well, time to make the best of it and wait for the grand opening...................be a shame if the economy tanked further an no one came to buy!

Blackhawk
January 21, 2003, 01:15 PM
I attended all the meetings and have a full idea of the "goings on".Those deals never make everybody happy. In fact, no matter what kind of a deal it is, there are always some people that will be put out.

blades67
January 21, 2003, 02:49 PM
An before anyone else states how could it will be ask yourself - would I want a mall across the street??

I've lived across the street, literally, and found many benefits including not having to find a place to park (I even had a reserved spot!), never having to fight traffic and it never took more than five minutes, door to door, to get to the mall. Auto theft was actually lower at my apartment complex than it was at a friend's that was two and a half miles from the mall.

NIMBY's all do the same thing, they bitch and whine about how bad the new developement will be for them and then the minute the new store(s) open they drive right over and start shopping.:rolleyes:

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