repeated 1911 colt failure


PDA






BruM
January 15, 2010, 02:32 PM
For the third time the slide spring on my Colt Series 80 1911 has either kinked or broken and in the process ruined the plug. Replacing them isnít a big deal but I wonder if other folks have similar problems every few hundred rounds.

If you enjoyed reading about "repeated 1911 colt failure" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
farscott
January 15, 2010, 02:36 PM
That is an unusual failure.

I would like to ask a question. On which part is the open end of the recoil spring, the guide rod or the plug? The open end should be on the plug end, and the closed end should fit over the guide rod.

MachIVshooter
January 15, 2010, 02:57 PM
I would like to ask a question. On which part is the open end of the recoil spring, the guide rod or the plug? The open end should be on the plug end, and the closed end should fit over the guide rod.

That'd be the first thing I checked.

If the problem continues after correct spring installation is verified, just install a FLGR.

Fremmer
January 15, 2010, 04:07 PM
I'm not sure about the correct term, so forgive me, but I'll try anyway.

Is there any reason that the spring might not be centered perfectly straight? Is the plug hole perfectly centered? There's gotta be something causing that spring to bend/kink.

Clarence
January 15, 2010, 06:00 PM
A recoil spring should never break. There is obviously something terribly out of spec. What recoil springs are you using?

AK103K
January 15, 2010, 06:33 PM
Are "all" the parts present? There is a recoil spring guide in the gun, right?

MICHAEL T
January 15, 2010, 08:25 PM
Is it the correct guide for that model Commander different than a Government This isn't a normal problem

BruM
January 15, 2010, 10:46 PM
Yes there is a 1 Ĺ” ,measured from the face of the spring support, guide rod. At least in the current case the closed end of the spring was at the guide rod end. The kink that tore the open end of the plug was located a bit forward of the guide rod when looking at the expanded disassembled parts. The guide rod is original the spring is normal length and strength AFAIK

Oro
January 15, 2010, 10:53 PM
This is extremely unsual, as already mentioned. Lots of ideas can be thrown out but if you have a camera to take some pics of the muzzle (assembled), then the slide inverted, plug, and broken spring, some people here can probably give you a much better idea than just guessing.

If you bought the gun used the first step is to replace the spring with a known good new one, 16lbs, from Colt or another major maker. The previous owner could have installed a far-out-spec spring or the wrong type. If you bought the gun new, there's no reason for it and Colt will sort it out.

A FLGR should definitely fix it, but it should not be happening in the first place and it's worth figuring out why.

wally
January 16, 2010, 10:12 AM
No snarky remarks about getting what you pay for? Repost and change Colt to Taurus an see what you get :)

Very unusual failure. Some photos would help a lot. You aren't putting a full sized spring into a Commander are you?

--wally.

BruM
January 16, 2010, 11:10 AM
As above it is a full sized colt series 80.
I bought it new in 1985 so no warranty.
I replaced the last spring failure with one from a local gun store that stocked a lot of colt spares but donít know the brand, springs arenít marked.

The latest spring, when removed, is bent in a 15 degree or so angle when laying on the bench. The plug is torn at the open end. I'll try some pix but there is not much to see beyond what I described.

How long is the proper spring guide??? Mine is 1 1/2"

AK103K
January 16, 2010, 11:16 AM
1 1/2" is right for a GM. The plug should also be 1 1/2", and when straight, the spring should be right around 6 1/4" long.

It almost sounds like the spring is to heavy and hanging up on the open end of the plug, instead of seating inside of it.

Whitman31
January 16, 2010, 11:17 AM
I had this happen once, found that the radius on the end of the guide rod was not big enough to ensure that the spring wouldn't catch on it. Destroyed the spring. Vendor admitted fault and I fixed the GR. No problems since. Mine wasn't the same gun as the OP, but still a 1911.

Beelzy
January 16, 2010, 11:27 AM
You are just having bad luck with springs. Get an OEM spring (make sure it's in the bag still), and see what happens.

BruM
January 16, 2010, 11:52 AM
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/tacdp/coltspring2010-01-15_0001.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/tacdp/coltspring2010-01-15_0005.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/tacdp/coltspring2010-01-15_0004.jpg

JTQ
January 16, 2010, 01:58 PM
Is that a Series 70 style "collet" bushing in the lower left of the first picture? Above the slide and below the barrel.

Could that be part of your problem?

MachIVshooter
January 16, 2010, 02:35 PM
Is that a Series 70 style "collet" bushing in the lower left of the first picture? Above the slide and below the barrel.

Could that be part of your problem?

You may be onto something there. could that bushing be allowing the plug to cant upward at the rear, thus the guide rod is no longer aligned? Of course, that would require that the plug be undersized or deformed to begin with.....

I dunno. I've been sitting here playing with my Mk IV series 80 trying to firgure out how that would happen, and something has got to be off with the plug or guide if it is doing this with more than one spring. Unless the ID of the springs is too large in each case. That'd certainly cause the misalignment.

Get a new spring, new plug, new GR and a normal solid barrel bushing.

Oro
January 16, 2010, 03:15 PM
Could that be part of your problem?

I don't think so. The length of the plug is longer than the bushing and at no point should the spring be able to contact it during cycling.

I think the problem was simply there was a burr or defect on the spring cap that caught the spring and kinked it. I'd replace the cap and spring and I doubt you could have any more problems.

A picture of the forward portion of the slide and spring cap could help see if there were machining errors in alignment. This sometimes happens but is usually only cosmetic. However, two compounding errors in both pieces could possibly cause this. I wonder if this is not the problem as it looks like the spring cap was impacting the guide rod? The tip of the guide rod looks damaged. For example, a photo like this would help ID these areas or issues. Notice how the gun on the right has the spring tunnel slightly off-center to the right (slightly to the left in the picture since the view is head-on). I have also seen similar problems with spring caps. Combine the two, and you could have the tip of the cap impacting the guide rod end, which looks like your problem.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd275/kamerer/1911s/Commander%2080/IMGP5406PEF.jpg

BruM
January 16, 2010, 06:10 PM
the bushing is original

AK103K
January 16, 2010, 06:19 PM
Not for Series 80 guns, or at least none Ive seen or owned.

BruM
January 16, 2010, 06:33 PM
AK what do you think should be correct??? I dont think the bushing was ever replaced. Is there an online colt approved parts drawing?/

JTQ
January 16, 2010, 06:40 PM
Here is what a Series 80 (actually anything that is not specifically a true Series 70) bushing looks like.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=8849/Product/1911_AUTO_BUSHING

Notice it is solid, it doesn't have "fingers" as what looks like the bushing in your picture.

Though I'll admit, I'm not completely sure I've identified the bushing in your picture.

AK103K
January 16, 2010, 06:51 PM
The link JTQ posted is what they should look like. I've only seen the collet type on the Series 70's I've owned.

BruM
January 16, 2010, 07:11 PM
yup ive seen those solid bushings on most 1911 however the spring bushing on mine is original to the best I can remember. Anyway as above the bushing is too short, much shorter than the plug, to interfere with the spring and it does provide a repeatable barrel position.
curiously I cant find any colt drawings of parts of the various models and none of the bushings I find anywhere resemble mine.

mesinge2
January 16, 2010, 07:13 PM
The one on the left is a series 80 and the one on the right is a series 70 bushing.

113468

Chindo18Z
January 16, 2010, 07:25 PM
It's been a while since I've compared them, but I believe that the Series 70 collet bushings were mated to a barrel which had a slightly increased flared diameter at the last inch or so towards the muzzle.

The collet bushing on a Series 70 barrel should readily and loosely slide up and down the barrel (chamber end to about 3/4 of the way towards the muzzle) until it encounters the muzzle end. There, it should be friction engaged by the slighty thickened barrel and require moderate finger pressure to slide off the end of the muzzle.

You appear to have a Series 70 bushing slid onto a Series 80 barrel. Check the barrel marking on the polished exterior of the barrel's chamber just behind the barrel lugs. Does it say: MKIV Series 70?

Does the prongs of your bushing "grasp" the muzzle end of the barrel (with tension from the three prongs) when the end of the muzzle is pulled through the the prongs of the collet bushing? They should.

When holding the loose barrel, does the bushing slide loosely around the muzzle area and can the bushing simply slide off the end when you tilt it towards the floor? It shouldn't.

With the weapon assembled and looking at the business end, is there significant gap, play, or jiggle room between the collet bushing and the surface of the barrel. There shouldn't be. The collet bushing was Colt's transitory attempt to transfer Gold Cup target gun features onto the Government Model (tightening up barrel play at the muzzle). It was not especially successful and there were occasional reports of one of the three "fingers" breaking off during firing, causing jams.

This may be the problem. In over 35 years of owning 1911s, I've never seen that uniquely depicted type of damage in a weapon equipped with OEM parts.

As Oro mentioned, replace the bushing with a standard (solid) one and get a new Recoil Spring Plug as well as a new standard 16 pound recoil spring. You can on-line order either Colt factory or reputable aftermarket parts from Brownells or Wolff Gun Springs.

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%

http://www.coltsmfg.com/shop-c25-p0-g8-b0-.aspx

ambidextrous1
January 16, 2010, 07:32 PM
Let's try this hypothetical situation: The recoil Spring plug has been contacting the recoil spring guide, due to hot loads or (more probably) a weak recoil spring. The thin wall of the recoil spring plug was partially collapsed and consequently didn't allow the spring to compress into the plug upon recoil. That resulted inexcesive unsupported spring length, which developed a kink, or bend, with repeated firing.

How long has the recoil spring plug been damaged as shown in your photos?

I think a new recoil spring guide and recoil spring (hopefully both made by Colt) will solve the problem.

I can't encourage anyone to install a FLGR for this or any other reason. Several (million) 1911s are out there as we speak, demonstrating that the as-designed recoil spring guide provides long & trouble-free functioning of the firearm.

BruM
January 16, 2010, 07:42 PM
The bushing does slide easily except at the muzzle end where it becomes a friction fit. Using simple calipers I measure less than a 1/64” larger diameter on the barrel at the muzzle end. The barrel is Marked colt .45 AUTO.
The slide is marked Series 80 Mark IV.

With the bushing on the barrel and slid into the muzzle position there is no visible gap between the bushing and the barrel, no "jiggle room" no movment I can see.

BruM
January 16, 2010, 07:46 PM
I dont know how long the plug has been damaged. I do know i wouldn’t have reassembled it if it was damaged as shown.
FLGR????

BruM
January 16, 2010, 07:53 PM
Begins to look like I have a series 70 barrel and bushing in a series 80 gun. This is a factory set up, not my doing, as I am absolutely certain that I have never replaced the barrel since buying the gun new, in box, from a colt dealer.


The bushing fit’s the barrel very closely similar to the pix by ORO above on left except that there is no gap between the bushing and barrel. Barrel and bushing are closely concentric as opposed to the visible offset on ORO’s left pix.


Given the above I dont see how the bushing barrel combo is the cause of the problem.

Chindo18Z
January 16, 2010, 09:02 PM
I don't think there is a problem with your barrel to bushing fit. As you noted, looks like you've got a Series 70 barrel & bushing.

I also believe that the Series 70 bushing/barrel setup should be able to work fine in a Series 80 slide.

However, the fact that you have Series 70 parts in a Series 80 gun means that someone (possibly the factory, possibly not) has done some modifications, gunsmithing, or simple parts swapping. It happens, even NIB from factory distributors.

The more I think about, the more convinced I am that the recoil spring is not providing enough resistance at full recoil (at full spring compression). In other words, the spring is "bottoming out" and the nose of the recoil spring guide is impacting the rear of the recoil spring plug. The spring itself is not doing the main damage to the recoil spring plug, but has no where else to go and kinks. I think the gun is under sprung for the ammo you are using.

From the photos, your recoil spring appears to have 32 coils, which would be normal for a full-sized .45 ACP Government Model. It is apparently the proper length as well.

What I don't know, is whether it's actually a standard 16# spring for a 5" slide length 1911.

Might it be possible that the spring is for .38 Super, 9mm, or .40?

Or...is it in fact a reduced poundage .45 ACP spring for lightweight (and low recoil) .45 target loads?

What ammo are you using? 230 Gr Hardball? 200 Gr Premium Self Defense +P? Soft recoiling 185 Gr SWC Target Loads?

I'm not sure of the coil count on .38 Super or 9mm Recoil Springs. I think they run 27 or 28 coils? Perhaps someone else can chime in...

If you have too light of a spring (say...11 lbs or so...it might lead to this problem with full power ammo).

I'm still thinking new Standard 16# Recoil Spring, new Recoil Spring Plug, and a new Recoil Spring Guide. About $35 worth of parts from Colt.

Forget installing a FLRG. Adding that "improvement" should have nothing whatsoever to do with the current problem and is simply an unnecessary device that brings a new set of potential problems to the gun.

Hope this ultimately helps. Good luck.

Oro
January 16, 2010, 09:22 PM
However, the fact that you have Series 70 parts in a Series 80 gun means that someone (possibly the factory, possibly not) has done some modifications, gunsmithing, or simple parts swapping. It happens, even NIB from factory distributors.

Er, no, it means he has a Mk IV Series 80 gun. The collet/barrel bushing arrange post-dated the introduction of the '80 series firing pin safety c.1983 and was used up to 1989. If the gun was purchased new in that time frame - as the poster has said - it looks entirely stock.

Since Bru88 says the spring tunnel itself looks good, I'd say get a fresh 16lb. spring and spring cap. I would think a burr or defect in the interior edge of the spring cap was the culprit and it slowly was dinged and bent until it hammered itself even further out of shape on the guide rod and kinked the spring. Make sure the guide rod is straight, no bent, and also square against it's base (e.g., if you stand it on it's base it stands vertical on a flat surface and not like the Leaning Tower of Pisa ;)).

BruM
January 16, 2010, 09:29 PM
Chindo:
since the spring is a replacement it is possible that it is not proper strength. Of course I replaced it due to a previous problem. Now that I think about it if I remember correctly the original spring
It is strange that the barrel is marked 45 auto not MK IV Series 70as you indicate series 70 barrels would be. That leads me to suspect that the factory delivered this combination, how else would the barrel be marked 45 Auto? If it was changed by a dealer then I think the barrel would be marked series 70. If I remember correctly the first spring broke and the second bent as shown in the pix. The second and third springs may have both been too soft since they both bent as shown above. I‘ll need to be certain of the new springs strength. I am shooting 230G FMJ. and 185 JHP I will replace all three parts as you suggest and see what happens.

JTQ
January 16, 2010, 09:33 PM
Get a Wolff recoil spring 16 pound

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1#3

BruM
January 16, 2010, 10:05 PM
strangly Colt doesent seem to have a parts list or ordering web site. I would buy the Wolf spring but want to order all the parts from one source.

Chindo18Z
January 17, 2010, 12:02 AM
Bru88: As Oro noted (I was wrong...old age), your gun came from the factory with the collet bushing. I've obviously forgotten some things about the older 70's I formerly owned. My current Colts are 80's.

I'm able to view and order all parts directly from the Colt website:

http://www.coltsmfg.com/shop-c25-p0-g8-b0-.aspx

ambidextrous1
January 17, 2010, 02:26 AM
Bru: FLGR = Full Length Guide Rod: A solution for a non-existant problem.

Your problems will be solved with a new 16 pound recoil spring and a new recoil spring plug.;)

Clarence
January 17, 2010, 02:33 AM
Some of the earlier Series 80 guns had collet bushings. I'm not sure when the transition back to solid bushings occurred, but I own a Series 80 that came from the factory with a collet bushing.

rskent
January 17, 2010, 08:33 AM
Before you go running out and buying your new spring you might want to check your Colt for spring stacking. Stacking your recoil spring is not supposed to happen.
I did have one gun that needed to have a coil or two (donít remember) cut off. Just put your gun together without the spring in it. Slide the slide all the back. Take
a pencil and draw witness marks on the slide and frame so you can tell how far back the slide will travel. Now put your gun back together with the spring in place.
Slide the slide back all the way. Do the marks still line up? If they do, go buy your spring. If not, cut your spring down until it does. If you have to cut your spring,
you may want to go up to an 18# spring.
Just a thought
Steve

rskent
January 17, 2010, 08:39 AM
Also, I forgot to mention, there are some very knowledgeable and helpful people in the gunsmithing forum.
Steve

BruM
January 17, 2010, 12:13 PM
rs; Thanks I'll check for stacking

BruM
January 17, 2010, 12:29 PM
Chin: thanks but i found that link and noticed that it doesent show any parts specifically listed for my type bushing and barrel. No mention of series 80 or MK IV at all really strange.

JTQ
January 17, 2010, 02:11 PM
Bru88 wrote,
I would buy the Wolf spring but want to order all the parts from one source.
Try Brownells
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=736/k=/t=P/mfg=/Products/1911-Springs
They should have just about every part your 1911 needs.

Maj Dad
January 17, 2010, 03:43 PM
The dismissive sentiments of ambidextrous1 & others notwithstanding, I had a nice Colt 1911 made in May 1918 that ate recoil springs. I spoke with a nationally known smith (Alex Hamilton) & he said the simplest approach would be a FLGR. I installed it and never had another problem. He did not have strong sentiments about them and said if you like it, fine, and if not, fine. In my case, the problem existed, and the FLGR solved it without any alterations to a pristine, if imperfect 1911. If you continue to have problems, it's a relatively inexpensive thing to try. I have one in my Combat Commander because I like it and it adds a little weight on the front end (it would be more of a difference on a Commander). If it doesn't solve your problem or you decide you don't like it, post it in the "For Sale" area & move on.
Just my 2 cents & experience,
Maj Dad

1911Tuner
January 17, 2010, 04:07 PM
Assemble the gun and pull up/push down on the front of the slide to see how much vertical slop is present. I've seen a couple with a lot of slack eat springs and guide rods like that. If that's the problem, a FLGR will stop it as a quick fix. The real cure is to tighten the vertical slop. Peening and other stuff required.

Chindo18Z
January 17, 2010, 06:09 PM
Bru88: Standard recoil plugs & recoil spring guide rods are universal for all Colt full-sized Government Models (they fit both the Series 70 & 80 models).

Nothing special to look for other than desired finish (blued, stainless, or nickel).

The ones listed on the Colt website will fit your weapon.

Springs are procured based upon poundage you desire. Again, the standard factory spring is the 16 lb. one listed for the .45 ACP Government Model.

BruM
January 17, 2010, 06:48 PM
Thanks

BruM
January 17, 2010, 07:40 PM
Tuner

I don’t have any wire gauges at the moment so I used newspaper as a gauge.

With the slide in normal firing position I was able to fit one strip cut from newspaper between the front most end of the frame and the slide. Two pieces of paper were too much to move in the slot even when holding the slide away from the frame. When squeezing the frame and slide together they held the one sheet of paper tightly. So my estimate is that the play at the front end is a little more than one sheet of newspaper.

Seems tight enough to me. What do you say???

torrejon224
January 17, 2010, 07:53 PM
Is it me or is something odd about the barrel link? It appears cracked and could be the cause of the whole problem.

1911Tuner
January 17, 2010, 07:56 PM
Plenty tight, Bru...so that's not your problem, even though the damage to the spring and the end of the guide rod is identical to those that are loose enough to throw the slide up at the front. The damage to the plug is being caused by the spring becoming pinched between the end of the guide rod and the lip of the plug.

That only leaves the issue of a misalignment between the spring tunnels in the frame and slide. There's also a possibility that the impact abutment in the frame wasn't machined square, and is causing the guide rod to angle upward as the spring compresses.

If you can borrow a FLGR and install it in the gun, you'll probably find that the slide gets into a bind at roughly half travel. If it does...it's either misaligned, or the impact abutment is cattywampus...with my best WAG pointing toward the former.

I saw a 1918 Colt...loose as a goose...that would eat the spring and the end of the guide rod with one magazine. Peening the rails to reduce the vertical slop cured it.

BruM
January 17, 2010, 09:33 PM
Tuner: I think you are on to something. The pix below show wear on the frame in two places. The face and the inside or throat of the tunnel. It looks as if the spring guide is riding on the inside of the frame tunnel aswell as the face. If I place the guide in the frame it sort of rocks in place while I expect it should be flat on the face of the frame. However if it rocked up then top of the spring guide should be what hits the spring or plug however the original picture shows damage on the bottom of the guide. Is it possible that the guide is too fat to fit into the tunnel properly?
What now?

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/tacdp/springgide2010-01-17_0004.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/tacdp/springgide2010-01-17_0005.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/tacdp/springgide2010-01-17_0009.jpg

1911Tuner
January 17, 2010, 09:44 PM
From what I can see, it appears that you've found it The impact abutment is standing proud of the frame rails. As the slide moves, the guide angles upward on the front...getting in the way of the spring. The spring grabs the front of the guide rod, holding it fast in its misaligned state. Then, as the slide impact abutment strikes the guide rod flange, it jams it hard into the portion of the tunnel that the butt-end of the guide rod fits into while it's cocked upward.

I'm surprised that the gun will run at all.

It looks for the world like the frame impact abutment wasn't completely machined. How do these things get past QC? That should have jumped out at somebody like a startled rattlesnake.

BruM
January 17, 2010, 09:53 PM
If I understand correctly the abutment should be on plane with the ends of the frame rails?? It is definitly not and stands proud by what looks like .020" or so.

What I don’t understand is why the damage to the guide is on the bottom not the top as I would expect if it is tipping up.

What Do you recommend??

1911Tuner
January 17, 2010, 10:05 PM
If I understand correctly the abutment should be on plane with the ends of the frame rails??

Correct.

It is definitly not and stands proud by what looks like .020" or so.


Could be the lighting, but it looks like more than that to me.

What I don’t understand is why the damage to the guide is on the bottom not the top as I would expect if it is tipping up.

Odd, I know...but that's the area that takes the hit whether it's a misalignment, sloppy vertical fit, or cattywampus impact abutment.

What Do you recommend??

A gunsmith with a mill and the skill to set up the frame so that he can cut the abutment square and true. Chuck Rogers/Rogers Precision or George Smith/Evolution Gun Works can make it right. Might be a fairly lengthy wait, though. Since it's a defective frame, Colt will probably warranty it...even on an older gun. If it's wrong, it's wrong. IMO, it belongs to Colt. They may have other ideas, though. Worth a call.

Note: This ain't a job for a drill press.

BruM
January 18, 2010, 12:48 AM
Thank you to all who helped solve this puzzle, especially tuner.

PS: I have never been able to shoot this pistol accurately do you think this problem would affect accuracy or just slide function??

1911Tuner
January 18, 2010, 01:27 AM
Shouldn't have any effect on accuracy. The bullet exits when the slide has moved about a 10th of an inch. Sandbag it to see if the gun itself is at fault...after you get the problem corrected, of course.

BruM
January 18, 2010, 01:38 AM
[:(] always figured it was an operator malfunction.

1911Tuner
January 18, 2010, 10:34 AM
It happens, Bru. Many people have a little trouble managing 1911s...which is where a lot of the myths and legends got started about them being innacurate clunks. Work with it, and focus on sights and trigger. It'll come together for ya.

I ran into an old soldier at the range one find spring day. WW2 vet. He had a '43 Ithaca that he banged a few times and put it up. Said that he just wanted to limber it up a little after being in the mothballs for 20 years...just to make sure it still worked. He remarked: "Those things are junk. Can't hit the side of a barn with one." I asked him if I could try it...and proceeded to mow down two racks of falling plates at 25 yards in fairly quick time. He was a little miffed, to say the least.

FWIW...I've seen a few early Series 80 pistols NIB with the Series 70 collet bushings.
Colt has a penchant for using whatever they have on hand whenever parts run short,
so it's not unheard of.

Also FWIW...The enlarged portion of the barrel near the muzzle is standard. It started with Colt's Series 70 "Accurizer" barrel that was used in conjunction with the collet-type bushing. The enlarged portion is shorter than the original Series 70 design...but it's been a standard modification for years.

And...while we're on Series 70 Colts...a little trivia strictly FYI. There is no such thing as a Series 70 Commander or Combat Commander. Colt never produced one. All Series 70 pistols were 5-inch guns...either Government Model or Gold Cup.

BruM
January 18, 2010, 03:08 PM
So the slides are the same just either an enlarged barrel with a collet or a standard barrel with a standard bushing will fit??

1911Tuner
January 18, 2010, 04:44 PM
Yup. That's it.

BruM
January 18, 2010, 06:07 PM
I plan to ship it to colt tomorrow. We'll see if they do the right thing.

1911Tuner
January 18, 2010, 06:17 PM
Call'em first. Ask for Cindy. She's the easiest to deal with.

BruM
January 18, 2010, 06:41 PM
thanks, [:)]

mesinge2
January 18, 2010, 10:14 PM
Tuner is the best, he gave me advise to get my 3" 1911 running.

After I got it back from the smith I brought it to the range. Then and now, it runs like a top with everything I feed it.

BruM
January 19, 2010, 10:23 AM
Cindy is at the shot show.
I sent pix via email to customer service. They will have somebody look at them and reply.
B

BruM
January 30, 2010, 12:52 PM
Update:
In today’s mail I got a no charge invoice from Colt. Not much detail except:

repair receiver
replace necessary parts
adjust to factory specs
test for function and accuracy

So it seems Colt have repaired my 20 something year old 1911 at no charge. Only took a week to get the invoice from the day they received the gun. A stand up American company, Old Sam'l would be proud.

I'll let folks know what they did when it arrives.

Jolly Rogers
January 30, 2010, 01:56 PM
Good job. I for one would love to see before and after pics of the repair areas.
Joe

mesinge2
January 30, 2010, 04:42 PM
I for one would love to see before and after pics of the repair areas.

+1

I would also

BruM
January 30, 2010, 09:03 PM
pix no problem, dont know how long it will take.

BruM
April 2, 2010, 10:39 AM
As promised here are the results:
Got the gun back from Colt. They milled the frame now the impact abutment area is one plane, they replaced the entire slide, the complete barrel assembly with the standard non tapered type, also replaced sear spring and re-blued everything. It is essentially a new gun, I am impressed. The gun was 20 years old and made prior to their lifetime warranty. Thanks to everybody who contributed to solving this problem, especially to 1911 Tuner who correctly identified the problem before even seeing the gun pictures.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/tacdp/springgide2010-04-01_0002.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/tacdp/springgide2010-04-01_0013.jpg

BruM
April 2, 2010, 05:32 PM
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/tacdp/springgide2010-04-01_0011-1.jpg

1KPerDay
April 2, 2010, 07:41 PM
Wow. That is something. They really took care of you. Good on you, Colt's! :cool:


Now for the 64 dollar question: Does it work? Does it still munch recoil springs?

BruM
April 3, 2010, 06:10 PM
havent shot it yet, maybe this week. I wont know on the springs for sure until hundreds of rounds..

mesinge2
April 5, 2010, 09:57 PM
That's some customer service right there, now we need a range report

DevilDog0402
April 6, 2010, 09:41 AM
That's some customer service right there, now we need a range report
Yes, I must say I would be very happy with that level of customer service!

BruM
April 22, 2010, 04:31 PM
Went to the range today and was very happy. 100 rounds of mixed 230 factory ball, 230 reload ball and 185 JHP reloads with no failures of any kind. Three different magazines including one elcheapo and everything worked perfectly. It even seemed more accurate than before.

1KPerDay
April 22, 2010, 04:48 PM
Good to hear!

wriggly
April 23, 2010, 02:48 AM
And...while we're on Series 70 Colts...a little trivia strictly FYI. There is no such thing as a Series 70 Commander or Combat Commander. Colt never produced one. All Series 70 pistols were 5-inch guns...either Government Model or Gold Cup.

Technically you are correct. The slides were not stamped with the "Series 70" like the 5 inchers. But the Combat Commanders and Commanders that were produced in the series had the numeric prefix "70" as part of the serial number.

1911Tuner
April 23, 2010, 07:40 AM
But the Combat Commanders and Commanders that were produced in the series had the numeric prefix "70" as part of the serial

That means that the gun was produced in the 70s. It's a serial prefix, and nothing more.
Pre-Series 80 Commanders produced in the 80s have an 80 prefix...and they aren't Series 80 pistols.

The letter following the 70 or 80 prefix denotes the original finish. Thus, 70B means that the gun was originally blued steel. 70S means that it was originally Satin Nickel...not 70 Series.

All Series 70 guns were 5-inch guns...either Government Models or Gold Cups, and all were originally equipped with the "Accurizer" barrel and the collet bushing. As a matter of interest, Colt's Accurizer barrel design lead to the enlarged muzzle portion of the modern barrels that all 1911 pistols today wear, with the exception of the Norincos. That allows a tighter bushing fit when in battery, and still provides enough clearance for the barrel to drop completely to the frame bed.

And now ya know... ;)

BruM
April 23, 2010, 09:35 AM
My new slide is stamped series 80 and now has the taperd barrel assembly instead of the previous barrel with spring bushing. Does that mean it is no longer "correct" for that model?

Another public thank you to Tuner. He did an amazing job figuring out what was wrong without seeing the gun.

1911Tuner
April 23, 2010, 10:40 AM
Good question Bru, and it brings up another interesting point in Colt's history.

Colt...never being a company to toss out anything useful...did produce a few guns that could be categorized as Series 70/80 hybrids. I've seen a few NIB Gold Cups that were Series 80 guns...but had the old design Accurizer barrels and collet bushings. Haven't seen any Government Models like that, but I've heard of them. As far as the originality question goes...I don't know if they did that through a certain, traceable serial range, or if it was just at random until the parts were used up. A call to Colt might reveal the answer. If not...then your gun would be classed as original, or at least correct.

As another FYI...Not all Colts built in the 70s were Series 70 pistols. The Series 70s appeared in late '72 or early '73...and they were being produced at the same time as pre-Series 70 guns...coincidentally at roughly the same time as the Combat Commander, which made its debut in mid to late 1970. And...Series 80s were introduced in mid 1983...so not all pistols built in the 80s were Series 80 guns. Like the Series 70s, there was also a short overlap period in which both pre-Series 80s and Series 80s were released until existing inventory was exhausted.

Series 70 identified the Accurizer barrel and collet bushing. Guns built prior to the introduction of Series 70 were just Colt Government Model...Colt Gold Cup...Colt Commander...and Colt Combat Commander. Pistols built in the 60s were never refered to as "Series 60" any more than the ones built in 1918 would be called "Series Teen."

Before the steel-framed Combat Commander was introduced, all Commanders were aluminum alloy framed...and they were simply..."Colt's Commander Model."

wriggly
April 23, 2010, 12:55 PM
That means that the gun was produced in the 70s. It's a serial prefix, and nothing more.
Pre-Series 80 Commanders produced in the 80s have an 80 prefix...and they aren't Series 80 pistols.

The letter following the 70 or 80 prefix denotes the original finish. Thus, 70B means that the gun was originally blued steel. 70S means that it was originally Satin Nickel...not 70 Series.

All Series 70 guns were 5-inch guns...either Government Models or Gold Cups, and all were originally equipped with the "Accurizer" barrel and the collet bushing. As a matter of interest, Colt's Accurizer barrel design lead to the enlarged muzzle portion of the modern barrels that all 1911 pistols today wear, with the exception of the Norincos. That allows a tighter bushing fit when in battery, and still provides enough clearance for the barrel to drop completely to the frame bed.

And now ya know... ;)

Thanks for the education.....Never too late to learn. :D

If you enjoyed reading about "repeated 1911 colt failure" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!