[Arcli9ht]

This may sound awfully mall-ninja-tacti-skunki-whatever, but has anyone tried throwing some sort of gyro stabilization on a long range rifle?

I was playing around with one of the image stabilized binoculars at the boat show a while back, and if you could steady a rifle like that, it would give a definite boost in accuracy.

Although the recoil might kick in some oddball direction.

/Arcli9ht

[MrAcheson]

Yup I think recoil would make the gun twist in all sorts of funny ways because you are changing the gyroscope's axis/es of rotation.

[zahc]

That would be rad. you could shoot offhand steadily. i don't think it is practical but it is cool to think about.

[Jaegermeister]

OK, mount two out-riggers on the stock of the gun from the front bipod mount that extend about a foot to each side at a 90-degree angle from the barrel. Then mount one gyro on each end of the stabilizer bars. The gyros should counter-rotate to balance each other out.


I claim the patent if this works.


It probably won't, however.

Any other great ideas?

[Joe Demko]

Back during the Vietnam era when various 40mm grenade launchers capable of attachment to the M-16 were being tested, some company I can't remember submitted one with a gyroscope for consideration. I believe it was described as "the poorest thing imaginable."

[Snowdog]

rad... :D

Haven't heard that in a while.

[gun-fucious]

Any other great ideas?

i have afixed a house cat and a slice of buttered toast to my rifles RAS

now my rifle levitates ~ 4 feet off of the ground

when i fire rapidly, the butter melts and drips on the cat
causing the whole rig to become rather "unstable"

i am hoping fluting the barrel will fix this issue

[son of a gun]

If it works for the Segway it can work for a gun you just may need more than one gyro.

[ShaiVong]

You know those rigs that they use for cameras, the ones where the poor camera man has this vest snapped on and the camera attaches to that so he can make steady shots while moving? (holy run on sentance!) :o

Think about that part in "The Shining" when the little kid is riding his trike through the hotel and the camera is following him, thats what they used.

it would be cool to have a rig like that where you could snap your rifle on. If I rest the butt of my AR15 on my BH non-slip shoulder, and then put my elbow on top of a full mag pouch it's really stable. I guess you could get the same thing with a camera rig, but better.

[geekWithA.45]

It's called a stedicam mount, and the deal is that all the joints are oil buffered, to produce smooth motion.

[KC]

If you look in the back of photography mags (the ones that have a noticible absence of young women in an under dressed state) there are ads from a couple companies that make/sell gryostabalizers for still cameras. They are heavy, expensive and kind of noisy. The intent is to reduce image shake while using a ong range lens or a bouncy platform (helicopters, etc.)

Given that some of these gryostabalizers will hold a Mamiya with a 1200mm lens still enough to use the set-up off hand, it would likely have some positive effect on your long gun. Probably not enough to justify the difference between a bipod and the gyro, but definatly something different.

Something that would give the antis hives, which is a worthy objective itself. :evil:

[Harry Tuttle]

These are quite cool:

http://www.ken-lab.com/stabilizers.html

Knowing that camera movement destroys image sharpness but that profitable pictures are often made on the run, smart pros seek a compromise between tripod and handheld exposures. Countless portable supports exist, but even if a stationary object can be found on location, critical shots can be lost in the time needed to set up. Minimum clarity sometimes depends on use - a soft image being acceptable, say, for news but not evidence work - but when the maximum percentage of tack sharp handheld shots are needed the gyro stabilizer is in order

Enter the Kenyon Gyro Stabilizer, a small, battery-powered, pod-like case that screws into a tripod socket and "floats" the camera in free space with only its weight supported by your hands. The device is maintenance free, works with any camera, spotting scope or binocular and, best of all, retains the freedom and speed of handheld shooting. The Kenyon system is neither a musing of some future technology nor a magic trick, but an intelligent applicaiton of basic physics.

http://www.ken-lab.com/assets/images/kenlab_019.jpg
Admiral KS-8
[Admiral KS-8 gyro stabilizer] The Admiral has been developed to provide Ken-Lab's simplified stabilization for camera equipment in the 8 to 12 pound range. Through the use of heavy metal tungsten wheels the effect of two KS-6 units is achieved in a standard KS-6 housing, with no increase in running power required. This is our most powerful unit to date.

Specifications:
Size: 3.4" diameter x 5.8" long
Weight: 5.13 lbs (82 oz.)
Power: 115 volts, 400 Hz, 26 watts starting with 11 watts running after 4 minutes. 3 hours running on a fully charged KP-6 Power pack.
Panning Rate: 30 degrees per second

The Kenyon Gyro Stabilizers are a small pod-like unit that runs off our 12 volt powerpack, which has a shoulder strap. Thus with the unit attached to the camera and the battery on one's shoulder (or in a carpenter's belt) one has complete freedom to move about. The units are 400 cycle AC. We have a small inverter on top of the battery to access its DC power, and the portable power pack comes with an overnight charger.

The unit operates two gyroscopic wheels which are in opposing axis to each other, and when they are up to their normal 22000 RPM operating speed, resist both pitch and yaw, when in line with the lens, the motors are brushless and the unit is helium filled, hermetically sealed and is maintence free. One can expect several thousand hours of worry free use.

One can bypass the battery and use external 12 volt power, such as in a plane or car, or boat. A 24 -28 volt inverter is available for helicopter use. If one has access to 400 cycle power (military and some helicopters) one need not use the inverter at all.

The units take 5 to 7 minutes to get to full operating RPM and the typical running time off the batteries

[ShaiVong]

I'll take two! :D :rolleyes:

[KC]

22K RPM? Yes, it might make shooting your .577 Tyrannosaur easier, but heaven help you if that tank gets punctured cause not much else will.

Still pretty neat, tho.

[Phil in Seattle]

Enter the Kenyon Gyro Stabilizer,

I've used these before and while they work just fine you will NOT be moving your camera around quickly. When they say stabilize they mean it, both against unwanted and wanted camera movement.

[ShaiVong]

Gyros are about this || close to magic. Awesome. :D

[Arcli9ht]

That gyro a few posts up might work really well. Especially for your long range shots... from a boat... on open water...

If I had a nickle for all the times I've needed that, I'd be... er... well, I cant think of a way to finish that sentence.

But it would be pretty nifty regardless.

/Arcli9ht

[curt]

so lets see you'd need two of them things so add 10 lbs to the weight of your rifle, then there is the power supply. And then you have the problem of fighting your weapon as you try to track a moving target. So when all is said and done a steady braced firing position would do the job much better, for targets that can be seen at that range.

[uglygun]

The posts about steady cams, check out the movie Aliens again if it's been awhile. That's what they had fixed the big heavy guns to and then strapped to the torso of the grunts.


Would be fairly interesting to have an M60 or M249 mounted to a steadicam type mount and then test a person's ability to engage targets while moving, compared to without.


As for gyro stabilizers, I could see maybe making a very specialized stock for long range precision shooting where once the gyros were fired up it would literally "lock" the rifle on it's hold and make it very resistant to forces applied to it.

Just give it two gyros to remove unwanted movement about two of it's rotational axis, say being able to lock it's rotation about it's barrel centerline so that the shooter can eliminate canting and then another gyro to eliminate a pivot point about the vertical axis so that side/side windage would get locked. That could leave the shooter to simply adjust for elevation.


Going further, minute adjustments could be made by giving trim settings to the gyros. By momentarily "braking" the gyros a slight kick/enertia could be delivered to make minute adjustments in windage or whatever is needed.


I don't know though, seems that's taking it off into the "toy" world even beyond that of the rail guns that the really cookey benchresters have made where the firearm becomes the ultimate steady rest.


I couldn't imagine the gryo stocked rifle being able to do anything better than that which a www.precisionremotes.com mounted rifle can manage.... A remote controlled M82, SR25, or M16 in a hair spliltting precision rest is pretty hard to beat I bet, unless you want it to be portable.

[pignock]

but cameras don't recoil

From what I vaguely remember from HS Physics, gyros resist force applied perpendicular to their axis of rotation. Someone MUCH smarter than me (which shouldn't to hard to find:D ) should be able to calculate the force vectors of a particular rifle/load combination and figure out where to mount a single gyro to provide the best recoil negation. It would make aiming the rifle kinda hard though. I guess you'd have to aim, spin up the gyro, shoot, stop the gyro, reaquire the target and repeat.

[Dave R]

Wow, this is sounding kinda interesting.

You don't need two gyros, one will do fine. Just like with the cameras.

And if you mount the gyro properly, you could re-driect the recoil of the rifle predictably. Make the recoil go DOWN and you have offset muzze rise, and reduced the thump on your shoulder. Two good things.

[Phil in Seattle]

The units take 5 to 7 minutes to get to full operating RPM

That's about right IIRC they took a bit to get going.

It's not impossible to move the camera around when using these units the problem is that you really have to muscle it around, you aren't able to make small fine adjustments in the cameras position.

[benEzra]

It's been done. I saw an article in which a rifle had one attached below the buttstock (easier to bear the weight that way, and since a rifle is rigid it doesn't matter where it's mounted). You need only one. Offhand groups were about the same as shooting off a bench. Power wasn't a problem (battery in fanny pack or something).

[gun-fucious]

heres a tactical black camera harness with a carbon fiber arm

sell the car...

http://www.danielsauvedesigns.com/