Owning guns in DC: the current situation


PDA






MatthewVanitas
January 16, 2010, 01:04 AM
A report on the gun-buying/owning process in Washington DC as of 2010. I've been reading the actual current DC policies, available starting here: Metropolitan Police Department - Gun Registration (http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/cwp/view.asp?a=1237&q=547431&pm=1).

Some highlights, many of which I found surprising, so may surprise many members here:

Registration: Registration is mandatory for all firearms in the District. You can currently register pistols, revolvers, rifles, and shotguns. The brief and wacky period of "revolvers only" has gone away.

Mag capacity: The old "if it can conceivably accept 10+ rounds, it's a machine gun" appears to be gone, replaced by a blanket prohibition on 10+ mags themselves.

Costs and Fees: Despite rumours of "hundreds of dollars in fees and psychological screenings", the clearly-labeled fee schedule (http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/cwp/view,a,1237,q,566996.asp ) indicated $48 for long-guns and $60 for handguns, total. EDIT: There's apparently also a mandatory class, which can cost you $150+.

Prohibited firearms: They do ban "assault weapons" and "unsafe handguns". Basically the CA DOJ list, with some quirks from MD which apparently help on some things, plus they apparently don't drop guns once they're on, unlike CA's annual requirements. The assault weapon list is pure GW-41 era, keeping us safe from those dastardly AR-70s and Valmet M62s running rampant on our streets. EDIT: C&R handguns are apparently kosher, per the MPD Registration Hotline.

Importing: unlike CA you can't import "unsafe" guns, so no moving into DC with your S&W 28. That also prevents CA's "I moved here from NV with my S&W 28... and felt like selling it a year later" loophole. EDIT: I understand that you can only register 1 gun per month, so importing a larger collection may take a while...

NFA and .50: All NFA gear, and .50 BMG, are banned. Not ".50 calibres", just .50 BMG, so .50 DTC, .50 FUCA, etc. are presumably kosher. Though honestly it's a little vague about "12.7mm equivalent to .50 BMG". Though there is absolutely no location to shoot a .50 BMG in the district, so if you had one you might as well store it in VA or WV anyway. But the principle bites. Surprisingly, .500 S&W revolvers are specifically listed as permitted.

Ammo: you can't own ammo unless you have a DC-registered firearm in that calibre.

General kookiness: perusing their detailed rules, there are few oddities. You have to be 21 to register anything, unless you're 18+ and have a signed statement of liability from a guardian. There's also a blurb about how they can deny your permit if you've ever been found negligent in a shooting incident.

In any case, the general vibe is that, legally, it's better than IL and maybe a few other states, but not quite as "good" as CA except in having a looser "safe list". Clearly, this doesn't exactly make it Montana or Vermont, but considering that it was de facto impossible to have guns in DC just a couple years ago, this is a pretty significant step forward.

In any case, just wanted to summarise the basic gun situation in DC these days. If there's any sneaky end-runs they're pulling that aren't clear on the site, those would be great to hear. Also, rumours aside, if anyone has personal knowledge of the FFL situation in DC (any dealers, any with <$100 transfers), that'd be cool.

Hope this clears up a few misapprehensions (which I myself shared), and if nothing else shows that a state/district can indeed "rise" from a Brady Campaign A+ to a B+ through the concerted effort of the gun community and force of the Constitution.

Moved personal perspective info down here
I dug around a little about this subject on THR, and it appears there's a ton of misinformation and outdated information on this subject. Plus lots of good, old-fashioned kneejerking.

I'm reading up on the subject, as I currently live just into VA, literally 10min walk or less from DC, and am considering buying property in DC after I return from a civilian deployment to Afghanistan this year. Before folks weigh in with all the "why on earth...", I'll just note that DC has some affordable "developing" areas, excellent mass-transit that can make my car about needless (keeping my Triumph motorbike though), and easy access to the kind of nightlife and cultural events a 30yr old enjoys.

I have absolutely zero interest in moving halfway into the middle-of-nowhere VA with 90min commute through horrendous traffic each way, just to get more square footage, a yard for a dog I don't have, and "good schools" for kids I don't have.

I dunno, if I move up into the City, I figure I'm best to get either a Remington 7615 .223 pump-gun with 10rd AR-15 mags, or else a (shudder) Mini-14 as my main longarm. Then something concealable in a pinch (in case of utter disaster), such a basic 642, or get ritzy and get a 396 .44Spl L-frame. Can't use any of my older S&Ws since they're "unsafe". EDIT: Turns out my CZ 75D is kosher, would go with that.

If you enjoyed reading about "Owning guns in DC: the current situation" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Ohio Gun Guy
January 16, 2010, 01:48 AM
Seriously :eek:

When it's "Not as good as California"......Its Bad....Really BAD.

Dont forget the gerneral attitude. They only did that because they had to, due to the Heller decision, if they could figure something out worse....they would do it in a second!


Sounds like you are talking yourself into it!

MattTheHat
January 16, 2010, 02:51 AM
I guess there aren't many gun collectors living in DC, huh?


-Matt

ol' scratch
January 16, 2010, 07:44 AM
Why are your S & W's unsafe? Just curious.

Aran
January 16, 2010, 08:15 AM
Sounds to me like DC can still go to hell.

wishin
January 16, 2010, 10:29 AM
Why would anybody leave Austin, TX to go to D.C.?

jd70
January 16, 2010, 10:37 AM
Better than Illinois? Yeah I have a foid card, but I also have ak's, ar15's and any pistol or revolver i want without any sort of registration on them. You may be thinking of the Chicago nonsence. Most of us down staters would like to cut Chicago loose and let it float to Canada, but I don't think i could do that to Canada.

alohachris
January 16, 2010, 10:53 AM
All the regulations that were posted are just malfeasance on the part of D.C.'s government, to me. They are adhering to the letter, but not the intent of the law.

Oh so we have to allow people to own guns? Fine. Here are 28 pages of law in single spaced, 10 point font you must conform to. Any deviation is a felony. Illegal to own ammo for an 'unregistered caliber'? Lists of 'acceptable' guns? *** is that?

Besides NRA, who else is fighting this type of entrapment & incrementalism? Are there legal funds to donate directly to?

MatthewVanitas
January 16, 2010, 11:10 AM
Why are your S & W's unsafe? Just curious.

As mentioned above, DC declares "unsafe" any gun which isn't on their list, which is pretty much the California DOJ's "list of approved handguns."

CA basically does a shakedown where companies have to give them X many free guns, which CA DOJ then drops off ladders, pounds on with hammers, etc. to see if they can make them go off. And charges a hefty fee for doing so. Plus every single variant has to qualify separately, even though a .32 S&W J-frame is mechanically identical to a .38 S&W J-frame. DC uses that list, but they're slightly more easygoing about it.

Why would anybody leave Austin, TX to go to D.C.?

Jobs. There aren't any in my field in Austin, there are zillions up here which have the most opportunity for advancement and pay the best. Plus I'm looking to spend about as much time working overseas as stateside, but I still have to be based out of the DC-area.

I can still keep the rest of my guns (including NFA gear) just 20m away down in Virginia, I'd only have to go through the bureaucratic annoyance for one pistol and one rifle.

Ohio Gun Guy
January 16, 2010, 11:49 AM
It bothers me that the people that live the closest to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, dont recieve the benifit of them! :cuss:


The very City they are displayed in!

jnyork
January 16, 2010, 12:13 PM
Thank you, God, for giving me Wyoming as my home!! :rolleyes:

627PCFan
January 16, 2010, 12:21 PM
Your in VA, your close to DC. You currently have the best compromise (for your situation)

Carl Levitian
January 16, 2010, 12:24 PM
"I guess there aren't many gun collectors living in DC, huh?"


Sure they do! There's guys with whole car trunks full of Glocks. You can find them around 14th and U st after midnight. Good rates.:D

LeontheProfessional
January 16, 2010, 12:34 PM
Seriously!!!??? That would not make my top 50 rifles!

+1 just stay ten minutes out side of DC unless you really dont care about your rights.

Old Fuff
January 16, 2010, 12:56 PM
If you find conditions in the District to be acceptable, by all means move there.

As for myself, I wouldn't. I don't think you are going to find many members of this forum who would be willing to move to DC either. You didn't mention that one can't get a concealed weapons license, or legally carry in a city that has a massive street crime problem. If you get caught illegally carrying you probably won't be able to own any guns, anywhere.

If I was in your shoes I'd stay where I was. As it is, If I was in my shoes I'd move to the Southwest as fast as I could get there.

MatthewVanitas
January 16, 2010, 01:26 PM
As for myself, I wouldn't. I don't think you are going to find many members of this forum who would be willing to move to DC either. You didn't mention that one can't get a concealed weapons license, or legally carry in a city that has a massive street crime problem. If you get caught illegally carrying you probably won't be able to own any guns, anywhere.

It's pretty immaterial whether I can get a CCW in DC or not. Though I'm covered in VA, most of my time is spent either in DC, or on Federal property in VA, MD, WV, so I basically can't carry at much any point in my average week, despite currently living in VA.

Does DC's law bite in principle? Yes. However, in terms of practical effect on my life, whether I live in DC or just across the Key Bridge into VA I can't CCW to/from work, or when I go out most evenings and weekends (unless I specifically plan my weekend to avoid crossing state lines). Literally the primary difference, gun-wise, would be that in DC I'd have one rifle in a locked ready-rack and one pistol in a quick-open safebox, whereas if I lived in VA I'd have that plus a bunch of guns in a safe. If I live in DC I'll still have a safe in VA, it'll just be 30min drive away. A minor annoyance if I want to go shoot my safe guns at a range, and in an emergency I can't use anything more than the DC rifle and pistol anyway, so having a safe-full next to my bed wouldn't keep me any safer than one pistol and one rifle.

Again, I concur that DC's legal situation is terrible in principle. However, in practicality moving into DC would affect little other than "where do I store all my recreational firearms when not in use, down the hall or 30min away?" All the rest of the taxes/crime/costs/transport/etc. issues of living in DC are outside the scope of THR, but the main thing is that DC has gone from "no guns for you" to "you can have guns provided they're of a certain type and you register them", which is not awesome but certainly a marked improvement.

EddieNFL
January 16, 2010, 01:26 PM
I wish you luck.

This just one of a plethora of stories out of DC since Heller was overturned.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m3d9-Federal-law-suit-filed-after-DC-refuses-to-register-handgun-because-its-the-wrong-color

geekWithA.45
January 16, 2010, 01:39 PM
Er, Heller won his case. He wasn't overturned. Overturning Heller would be bad, and would be one of the official "lines in the sand" beyond which All Bets Are Off.

It's actually interesting to consider the question of exactly what it was the Heller did overturn.

The most specific and accurate answer is "D.C's 1976 unconstitutional, de-facto gun ban."

Beyond that, though, is the interesting territory where the rubber meets the road. DC's ban didn't stand on it's own: it was entirely dependent on two things:

First, an extreme judicial hostility to "standing". It took 30 years to find a guy who had standing to bring the case, and he had to be an honest guy who both could legally possess a gun under limited circumstances (he was a guard), who wanted to register it to bring it home with him after work, who actually *attempted* to register it, and who was *actually* rejected.

Our courts have said that anything even slightly less than that isn't enough to bring suit, people who aren't one of the few non-police armed guards in DC need not apply.


The other thing DC's ban was dependent on was 70 or 80 years of truly bizarre rulings at the appellate court level that were in turn dependent on tortured readings of Miller.

Miller, notably, remains intact.

What was overturned was the tortured interpretations of it.

an entire *series* of bizarre rulings and findings

EddieNFL
January 16, 2010, 01:45 PM
Wrong terminology; shoot me.

leadcounsel
January 16, 2010, 01:51 PM
The ONLY benefits I could see in owning property in DC-

1. Voting on local policies to try to change the system, realizing that my single vote is next to meaningless

2. The possibility of 'buy low, sell high' if there were good deals to be had.


Otherwise, I barely like to visit DC, and certainly would NOT own property there, pay taxes there, register ANYTHING there. Reasons:

1. The Capitol of the free world is about the least free place to live in the country

2. Costs of everything are astronomical

3. A true "Police State" in every sense of the world. I recently visited and there were police, cameras, and security buttoned up worse than downtown Baghdad!

4. High crime rates, no CCW, absurd gun laws etc, etc...

5. I tried to spend as little money there because I don't like supporting economics that I don't agree with their public policies. I certainly would NOT want to go there on a regular basis, pay taxes, buy gas, groceries, supplies, etc.

Invest in FREE parts of the country. What's wrong with VA where you live 'in the middle of nowhere?'

MatthewVanitas
January 16, 2010, 01:55 PM
I wish you luck.

This just one of a plethora of stories out of DC since Heller was overturned.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m3d9-Federal-law-suit-filed-after-DC-refuses-to-register-handgun-because-its-the-wrong-color


Funny you should mention, several of the issues raised in that article have already forced DC to modify its policy.

Tracey Ambeau Hanson: Her gun was rejected because it's the wrong color.
The current "approved handguns" list specifically states that approval applies to substantively similar models (no nixing because the color or grips are slightly different).

Gillian St. Lawrence: Her gun was rejected merely because the manufacturer decided not to pay a fee to California to keep the gun on the California Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.

As I understand it, DC keeps guns on its approved list even if CA DOJ drops it during their annual scrub (and re-shakedown of companies).

Old Fuff
January 16, 2010, 02:01 PM
I'm not sure what this thread is supposed to accomplish... :confused:

The first post seems to say that things aren't as bad in Washington DC as some think, and other factors such as employment opportunities, night life, etc. are good enough to make putting up with conditions relative to gun ownership acceptable. That of coure is a matter of opinion, and so far no one has said, "Great!! I'll move tomorrow." If MatthewVanitas is looking for converts or members who agree with him I think the number is going to be sparse, and so far it's zero.

Each of us has to decide what is important in life, and make decisions based on that. If he wants to move into the District by all means he should do so. If he's expecting encouragement and support from the rest of us I don't think he's going to get it. While the Heller Decision has made things better, I don't see the "better" as being good enough.

Others may disagree, but so far they haven't.

leadcounsel
January 16, 2010, 02:05 PM
forced DC to modify its policy

Exactly - do you want to own property in a police state that, despite a CLEAR SCOTUS ruling drug its feet in violation of the letter and spirit of the law, continued to harass and deprive people of a valuable right, and only complied when FORCED to comply? Not me. DC stands for Doesn't Care...

mgkdrgn
January 16, 2010, 02:08 PM
... and don't forget that =all= of your purchases must go through the ONE FFL in DC that deals with the general public. There are NO gun stores in DC, nor will there ever be any as long as the current DC city council is in power. They will also see to it that there are no more FFL's in DC via the use of zoning and business licenses.

hammerklavier
January 16, 2010, 04:10 PM
We seriously need to give DC back to Maryland. That would solve their no representation problem, without making them the 51st and most liberal state of all.

LeontheProfessional
January 16, 2010, 11:27 PM
We seriously need to give DC back to Maryland. That would solve their no representation problem, without making them the 51st and most liberal state of all.
+1 on that. Just don't give them to us, Va. We got all them moving here into NOVA and making our state more liberal already.

geekWithA.45
January 17, 2010, 12:25 PM
@EddieNFL: I'm sorry, that came out more like I was criticizing you. Your misspeaking, which is really no big deal at all, got me to thinking "Hmm...what actually *was* overturned?" Following *that* thought was the main point of the post, rather than anything you said.

Artiz
January 17, 2010, 12:44 PM
MatthewVanitas, you DO NOT want to move in a gun control zone.

Trust me, you really don't, and yes, I really know what I'm talking about.

MatthewVanitas
January 17, 2010, 01:26 PM
Just to touch back: the basic point of the thread was to update folks on the current DC laws. I myself was behind the curve on many developments, so I thought'd be of interest to some readers.

Where I move or don't is a pretty minor point, and really just on me. Though I appreciate any concrete facts I'm missing (major laws not mentioned on the MPD website, news articles like the above posted on people taking DC back to court again), the larger issues of principle are ones I have to sort out, and any lifestyle issues (crime, transport, taxes) aren't THR pertinent, but should really go over PMs.


If no gunowners move to DC or no DCers buy guns, it's as though the ban still stands. Importing and registering guns is clearly not awesome, but it's ahead of many developed countries. If, theoretically, I move to DC I'm on the bleeding edge of US gun issues, whereas if I stay in VA I don't do much of anything to push the issue forward. In whatever case, gun rights alone will not be a factor in my decision, but if I do move to DC I will make a point of taking one rifle and pistol, both for practicality and on principle, whilst leaving the rest in my safe in VA.

Now that I understand how DC laws have changed, I'm thinking to take my CZ PCR or some other small auto (can only have 10rd mags) and either an M1 Carbine or a Mini-14 (with multiple 10rd mags). Practically speaking, I wouldn't be much less-equipped for utter disaster than if I were able to have my AUG and a stack of 42rd mags, and some 15s for my CZ.

JamisJockey
January 17, 2010, 02:10 PM
Something you need to consider is what happens if you need to defend yourself in your home. How the District will handle such a situation, I'd imagine, would be alot different than how Virginia would handle it.
As a matter of principle, I will not live in an area with such draconian laws.

garymc
January 17, 2010, 03:31 PM
Aside from owning a Triumph and calling it a motorbike, I noticed you used the spelling "rumours." Have you spent a lot of time in England?

MatthewVanitas
January 17, 2010, 03:45 PM
How the District will handle such a situation, I'd imagine, would be alot different than how Virginia would handle it.

That's actually a totally legitimate (and THR-related) point which I've been thinking on. Might have to peruse some recent news articles for trends in legitimate self-defense cases.

The areas where I might conceivably afford to live are not awesome areas, but have long-term gentrification potential.

MAKster
January 17, 2010, 03:50 PM
Just want to correct a few misperceptions about the District of Columbia. While we might not like the local gun laws, the District does not have a "massive street crime problem." 2009 ended with the lowest number of homicides in the past 45 years. You have to go all the way back to 1964 to find a lower number.

LeontheProfessional
January 17, 2010, 03:56 PM
Just want to correct a few misperceptions about the District of Columbia. While we might not like the local gun laws, the District does not have a "massive street crime problem." 2009 ended with the lowest number of homicides in the past 45 years. You have to go all the way back to 1964 to find a lower number.
It was that way all over the US last year due to the increase in gun sales. Here is a link to the article.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/opinion/op_ed/article/ED-HINKLE15_20100114-180004/317636/

MatthewVanitas
January 17, 2010, 04:10 PM
It was that way all over the US last year due to the increase in gun sales. Here is a link to the article.

Whoa, that's quite a Post hoc ergo propter hoc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc) fallacy. There are probably tons of factors involved in lower crime rates, and I'd really have to see some neutral studies showing a correlation. The kind of people who tend to murder and be murdered have minimal overlap with the demographic that buys guns when a Democrat gets elected.


In any case, DC does have a rather high murder rate (31.4/100,000), up there with Baltimore and Detroit. Still half of what New Orleans has (63.6), and nobody gave me this kind of hassle when I moved there.

In any case, pure murder rates don't really answer the whole question. A lot is neighborhood, demographic, line of work, etc. If I'm in a bad neighborhood but not involved in local drug disputes, not a woman married to an abusive husband, etc. that takes a chunk of the problem away. Still the danger of "spillover" violence, but a lot of the danger is concentrated by demographic.

MAKster
January 17, 2010, 04:25 PM
I don't think Heller had anything to do with the reduction in crime in D.C. It has more to do with the Metropolitan Police finally getting their act together and also poor people leaving the city and being replaced by professional singles and couples. Most murders in D.C. are thug on thug or stray bullets hitting an innocent person. The increased ownership of handguns by law abiding citizens has no affect on those situations. Despite all the hoopla, the number of people who have actually registered handguns since the new law went into effect has been in the hundreds.

swinokur
January 17, 2010, 04:27 PM
We seriously need to give DC back to Maryland. That would solve their no representation problem, without making them the 51st and most liberal state of all.

Um, MD does not want DC. We have enough gun related BS already.

:banghead:

JamisJockey
January 17, 2010, 05:12 PM
That's actually a totally legitimate (and THR-related) point which I've been thinking on. Might have to peruse some recent news articles for trends in legitimate self-defense cases.

The areas where I might conceivably afford to live are not awesome areas, but have long-term gentrification potential.

While you're at it, check into the amount of problems with the DC police department. They're not known for keeping their noses clean.

LeontheProfessional
January 17, 2010, 05:12 PM
Whoa, that's quite a Post hoc ergo propter hoc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc) fallacy. There are probably tons of factors involved in lower crime rates, and I'd really have to see some neutral studies showing a correlation. The kind of people who tend to murder and be murdered have minimal overlap with the demographic that buys guns when a Democrat gets elected.


In any case, DC does have a rather high murder rate (31.4/100,000), up there with Baltimore and Detroit. Still half of what New Orleans has (63.6), and nobody gave me this kind of hassle when I moved there.

In any case, pure murder rates don't really answer the whole question. A lot is neighborhood, demographic, line of work, etc. If I'm in a bad neighborhood but not involved in local drug disputes, not a woman married to an abusive husband, etc. that takes a chunk of the problem away. Still the danger of "spillover" violence, but a lot of the danger is concentrated by demographic.
That study has already been done. Try reading John Lott More Guns Less Crime He goes through a very statistical study to make that point clear.

Carl Levitian
January 17, 2010, 05:38 PM
"Most murders in D.C. are thug on thug or stray bullets hitting an innocent person."


This is exactly why D.C. is actually a very safe city to walk around in. Having been born and raised in DC, I have had zero problem in my life, yet go 'downtown' very often. I love the great amount of museums, art galleries, theaters, and dining options. I tried living in a small town, and managed two years in Trinidad Colorado before I was bored out of my skull, and saw that my kids were getting an inferior education. Moved back east and never regreted it.

Yes, firearms ownership is a little bit of a PITA in the peoples republik of maryland, but compared overall to the better acsess to finer things in life, its worth it. I'm sure Mathew is going to have a great time. I love my guns, and my family enjoys going out to the range everyweek, but our life does not revolve around a single issue like our guns. There is other things in life to enjoy.

LeontheProfessional
January 17, 2010, 05:53 PM
There is other things in life to enjoy.

Like Hunting :).

Skillet
January 17, 2010, 06:06 PM
I would hardly count that as "Not that bad". that's horrible! any place that even does not allow magazines that can hold more then ten rounds will not be getting a visit by me. I will stay in Idaho, thank you.

Prince Yamato
January 18, 2010, 03:18 AM
You know Matt, I say, go for it. The more of us "behind the lines", the better. It helps put some sway into the climate.

Oro
January 18, 2010, 03:29 AM
Matthew -

As someone who has quite literally "been there, done that" - I say move there. The faster the better. Here's why:

1) I lived in DC for about four years, when I was early/mid 20's. Also when it was the no-holds-barred murder capital and I could not own handguns there. It's not like it's the wild west, for Chrissake, even then. Outside of the bad neighborhoods, it's a fine place. Just don't go there. Simple.

2) I do know how very, very crappy the commute is and the quality of culture life is in most 'burbs compared to DC. That's a huge appeal to quality-of-life. As a place to meet interesting, intelligent, educated people that engage you, I think DC is the 2nd most interesting city in North America next to NYC. I've lived in both of those as well as other major US cities, and spent a lot of time traveling to all other major NA cities. I'm not rating DC the 2nd best NA city over all as a place to live, but just on those criteria. That's worth taking advantage of while you can and are young enough to benefit from it.

3) I hope you are single, as that is one very, very compelling reason to be a guy 30 or under in DC. It's just a great place to be in that regard, wink-wink, nudge-nudge. Know what I mean?

4) You are young, you can move on. That is what I did. DC eventually stopped appealing to me as it was a 'company town' and that company was a stolid and uninteresting bureaucratic morass. But as a young person, I learned quite a lot and improved my career skills. I had fun doing it (see especially #3 above), and I have extremely fond memories of living there of friends I met and cultural opportunities and learning. It served me well.

Go for it.

harmon rabb
January 18, 2010, 07:19 AM
who in their right mind would move from austin to dc? dear god.

registering guns? :barf: what kind of nonsense is that?

swinokur
January 18, 2010, 08:06 AM
While you're at it, check into the amount of problems with the DC police department. They're not known for keeping their noses clean.

And they bring Glocks to snowball fights.

Bartholomew Roberts
January 18, 2010, 09:05 AM
-Despite rumours of "hundreds of dollars in fees and psychological screenings", the clearly-labeled fee schedule indicated $48 for long-guns and $60 for handguns, total

One thing to keep in mind is that at the moment, D. C. has no gun store and in order to bring a handgun into the District, you need to go through an FFL. The one licensed FFL in D.C. charges either $125 or $165 (I forget which) for this service. However, he does not maintain any stock so you can't buy directly through him at this time.

There is also the mandated 5 hour firearms safety course, which costs around $175; but isn't included in the fee schedule even though it is a necessary part of the application.

Golden_006
January 18, 2010, 09:28 AM
I just read on CBS news how since the Heller decision -- all they did was make owning a handgun nearly impossible by making you go through so much red tape; it makes the decision almost negligible. You're required to give employment information including employer history and not to mention restrictive fees. Why even bother moving 10 minutes closer?

SharpsDressedMan
January 18, 2010, 09:47 AM
I saw a TV show one time where terrorists managed to get a suitcase xxxx into DC, and everyone was scared. If the xxxx had gone off, that would have been terrible, I think.......................or maybe not...........

Patriotme
January 18, 2010, 09:51 AM
Northern VA sucks. I can't even imagine living in DC.

wishin
January 18, 2010, 10:45 AM
Good one.

And they bring Glocks to snowball fights.

joe_security
January 18, 2010, 02:24 PM
Regarding Illinois, you can have whatever you please, provided its not in Chicago or Cook county, which has an AWB that is seldom enforced. When an assault weapon is used in a crime in Chicago or Cook County, the offender is already charged with so many other felonys, ( aggravated discharge of a firearm, aggravated unlawful use of a weapon) etc etc, they dont bother with the AWB charge. I was told this by attorneys practicing in the area. As a side note, the crime is way out of control in Chicago, they are way short of police, and the police are retiring as soon as they reach age 55 and are able to keep the medical insurance. Any doubts ? Try driving in the south side of the city ! You will need an up -armored humvee.

MatthewVanitas
January 19, 2010, 02:05 AM
Found a really good article, wherein a Washington Post employee actually got the paper to expense him a gun and all affiliated costs:

Get a Gun in D.C. -- Do You Feel Lucky?: Not Just Strict Rules Test Your Decision (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/01/AR2009090103836_pf.html)

In order to purchase and register a .38 Taurus revolver:

It took $833.69, a total of 15 hours 50 minutes, four trips to the Metropolitan Police Department, two background checks, a set of fingerprints, a five-hour class and a 20-question multiple-choice exam.


However, since I'd be importing my own rifle and pistol, I imagine I'd end up paying closer to $150 (class), $40 (rifle), $60 (handgun) = $250ish to get set up. Not good, but doable.

Turns out that my CZ PCR is an "unsafe" handgun since it's not on DC's specific list. Also, unlike CA, DC doesn't say anything about exempting single-action revolvers (which aren't even tested by CA DOJ), so my .32 Single Six might be unimportable as well. This could get tricky.

The Ruger Mini-14 appears to be workable though, provided it doesn't have an FS and you only use 10rd mags. I could live with one of those in a quick-lock ready-rack.

EDIT: Oh good, my PCR's slide is marked "CZ 75 D Compact", and those are on the approved list. Saves me a trip back to Texas just to buy a new handgun in my state of residence before moving up into DC.

jakemccoy
January 19, 2010, 04:15 PM
One day after the Heller decision, I predicted the current state of affairs in D.C.

Most people thought I was a jerk. Well, if being correct makes me a jerk, then I can live with that.

jakemccoy
January 19, 2010, 04:23 PM
Just want to correct a few misperceptions about the District of Columbia. While we might not like the local gun laws, the District does not have a "massive street crime problem." 2009 ended with the lowest number of homicides in the past 45 years. You have to go all the way back to 1964 to find a lower number.

Or maybe it's because police forces have dwindled due to budget cuts, resulting in fewer cops with less time to patrol and even less time to fill out reports. You may laugh, but I've personally witnessed a couple incidents where police have shown up 45 minutes after a 911 call and have left without filling out a report. I imagine such a problem is good for about a 25% reduction in reported crime.

Babarsac
January 19, 2010, 04:43 PM
With all the bogus fees that DC charges I could never imagine moving there. Thats why I live just across the bridge in Arlington. All the space my roommates and I need for guns and motorcycles and we're still close to the metro.

MatthewVanitas
January 19, 2010, 04:57 PM
With all the bogus fees that DC charges I could never imagine moving there. Thats why I live just across the bridge in Arlington. All the space my roommates and I need for guns and motorcycles and we're still close to the metro.

I know what you mean, I'm 10m walk from the Rosslyn Metro stop and 15m walk from Georgetown. However, property is far more affordable in DC (who'da thunk?).

Babarsac
January 19, 2010, 05:04 PM
Well that may be the case if you're buying. The only way I can afford to live in the Arlington/Rosslyn area is by renting with two friends. Now you can always live near a VRE stop outside the beltway and save a lot on housing (I have a few co-workers that do). The one thing I like is being a straight shot down I-66 to the NRA range.

chaim
January 19, 2010, 09:32 PM
Hmm, the gun situation in DC is still pretty bad. However, it isn't like Chicago (anymore) and may be a tad better than NYC.

I normally agree that more gun people in an anti-gun area is usually better. Work from within, fight new gun restrictions, and try to roll back current restrictions. Moderating the bad states is good for all of us. However, it can be like banging your head against a wall and you will tire out. DC is worse, everything good that has happened there for guns has been by court order with the vast majority of the people of DC being dragged along kicking and screaming.

On the other hand, if it is a temporary move, I can see it. DC (like NYC) is a great city for single young professionals. A lot of culture (museums, opportunities for the opera/theater, music), entertainment, singles, jobs, and great nightlife and if you live there you can be in the thick of it. Guns are just one part of our lives and lifestyles.

For your purposes I'd stay away however. To buy affordably you'll probably be no closer to where you want to be for entertainment and nightlife than if you move to PG, Montgomery County or NOVA within or near the beltway. To buy in a desirable neighborhood it is quite expensive, the MD suburbs will probably be cheaper and much of NOVA may be. To stay long term (which if you are buying I assume is the plan), I'd much rather be in the 'burbs once marriage and kids come, even ignoring gun laws- safer, bigger yards, more accessible open space/parks, and much better schools.

You say you live a 10min walk from DC in VA, and then put out the strawman of living in the city v. living 90min out. If you live within the beltway you will be near DC and you'll have the metro near your home- you may be able to get to where you want to be quicker than many places within DC. DC itself, if in a desirable area isn't any cheaper than the 'burbs (there is reasonable housing in NOVA and definitely in MD- "reasonable" being comparative, I doubt someone living in 90% of the country would consider anything in the DC area to be priced reasonably). Heck, even a few miles out of the beltway you will be near the city and the metro, and many of these areas have grown into little cities themselves with decent nightlife and most of what you'll want most of the time anyway (Arlington, Alexandria, Bethesda, Rockville or Silver Spring for instance). The MD 'burbs aren't good on guns, but MD is much better than DC, and the prices will be much better than DC for comparable property (and we have our "up and coming" neighborhoods as well).

If you do it, keep in mind the "PC" nature of the area. I know in Baltimore you pretty much will be charged in any home defense shooting, I assume DC is no better. Keep your defensive weapons as PC as possible since your jury will come from the anti-gun local population. You don't want them to be shown your "Rambo wannabe" or "military style" weapons- nothing with the word "tactical", try to stay with wood stocked rifles/carbines (lever rifles are probably best) or wood stocked pump shotguns (stay away from "military style" "evil black rifles and shotguns" so no plastic/polymer). Any pistol will probably be a big hurdle to overcome (though they may be an indispensable home defense addition) so stay away from anything with the word "tactical" or any stick on devices (don't use the utility rail) but I don't know if a revolver over an auto will do you much good or not (I do still use more revolvers than autos for HD purposes).

jeff-10
January 20, 2010, 12:42 AM
My family has long time ties to D.C. My father and his wife grew up in the Anacostia area but left half a century ago and never looked back. He still has a lot of friends there, not to mention family members. He still doesn't believe you can own guns there legally when I tell him. I still remember going there as a kid and a friend of his had a spear gun he kept for protection. Everyone carried a knife of some sort.

Any progress is good progress. Gotta walk before you run. Most of the residents in DC outside of the high end areas had and still have guns IMHO. None will bother with the new legal requirements.

Dokkalfar
January 20, 2010, 03:32 AM
General kookiness: perusing their detailed rules, there are few oddities. You have to be 21 to register anything, unless you're 18+ and have a signed statement of liability from a guardian. There's also a blurb about how they can deny your permit if you've ever been found negligent in a shooting incident.

And here I was thinking at 18 you are generally considered your own legal guardian. (Especially if you are filing IRS as an independent.) So does that mean I could technically sign my own statement of liability on the completely impossible chance that I moved there?

sernv99
January 20, 2010, 11:35 AM
if you want to live in northern VA but still reap the benefits of the DC nightlife, live near a metro stop.

With the BRAC coming to northern VA, traffic will only get worse and you will be thankful to spend the extra $$$ on a place close to a metro stop.

Forget about MD. They have restrictions on mag capacity and you have to do the kabuki dance if you want to buy an evil black rifle. The only good thing about MD regarding guns is that the FFL calls in the NICS through the FBI vice in VA where the FFL has to go through the State Police (which takes a bit longer)

DC nightlife is great for a single guy. Good looking women, nice places to hangout and drink and eat. But for gun owners, it's a hellhole, stay put in northern VA.

as a single guy, I would never live in DC.....because the taxes are higher in DC than in VA and I love my guns. Plenty of good looking women in the northern VA 'burbs as well.:D

swinokur
January 20, 2010, 01:15 PM
MD calls NICS directly for long gun purchases only. handguns still go thru MSP.

jakemccoy
January 20, 2010, 04:02 PM
I have a "let's be real" perspective. If you are absolutely going to be doing the DC nightlife but still like your guns, you might as well just live in DC closer to all the action. You can't carry to the bars and clubs anyway, right? You also can't carry to work, right? So, where will your guns be all the time? It will be tucked away at home. If you lived in Northern VA, you might feel warm and cozy that gun laws are more lax, but it's not like you'd be enjoying the lax gun laws anyway. Remember that we're talking about a young man who's working in DC and who also wants to enjoy the DC nightlife. By the way, I lived in DC for 4 years in my 20's...good times.

MatthewVanitas
January 20, 2010, 06:49 PM
You can't carry to the bars and clubs anyway, right? You also can't carry to work, right? So, where will your guns be all the time? It will be tucked away at home. If you lived in Northern VA, you might feel warm and cozy that gun laws are more lax, but it's not like you'd be enjoying the lax gun laws anyway.

Yup, that's about exactly my stance. Living in VA would make me "free-er" in principle, but in actual practice my guns have to stay home anyway, and in an emergency one rifle and one pistol is about all I can use anyway.

Found some more slightly-less-terrible news, though I can't go back and edit the OP now: it appears that those with military training are exempt from the class. So my only expenses would be just over $100 to register a rifle and pistol.

sernv99
January 20, 2010, 08:14 PM
DC has higher income tax.....significantly higher to make me move and stay in VA. I never owned a home in DC so I don't know what the property tax is like.

DC also passes these new stupid taxes like a grocery bag tax. ***:rolleyes: If they need to pass a grocery bag tax to raise revenue, imagine what other taxes they will come up.

The only downside to northern VA, besides traffic, is the stupid property tax on cars but I'm hoping Bobby McD changes that and dumps this annual "car tax".

Grassman
January 20, 2010, 10:20 PM
I'm gonna post the biggest "WELL DUH" post ever, so get ready.....

How does this nonsense do anything, but prohibit the law abiding tax paying citizen from defending himself? That's all I got, just stunned.

If you enjoyed reading about "Owning guns in DC: the current situation" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!