[Ukraine Train]

Cliffs notes: I need info on convincing my mom that owning a handgun is not a threat and no worse than a shotgun or rifle.

Unabriged version:
It's an endless battle with her lol. I got my rifle when I was 18, she reluctantly agreed. I recently got a shotgun for HD, I'm 20 now. When I was getting that she said, "I don't like it but do what you want, but you're definitely not getting a pistol" so I took that as an ok for the shotty of course hehe. Well I'm turning 21 in about a month and hope to get a handgun before spring hits, as long as my budget allows it. I was talking to my dad, over the phone, about the guns I'm looking at and my mom overheard him. Well, she wigged out hard core on him for two days straight lol. So now they're both against it but want to discuss it when I'm home for Thanksgiving. My dad has always been ok with me getting a handgun but only if I kept it at home, but there's no point to that as I'm only home about a month total out of the year. I briefly talked about it with my dad yesterday and he thought I was going to turn psycho just because I have a pistol and I would start shooting random people or if someone broke into my house (which happens A LOT around here) they would shoot me because they see a gun in my hand or I'd shoot an intruder and then their friends would come back and kill me or the perp's family would sue me, etc. So, what can I say to my mom to convince her? Statistics would be good also.

I plan to keep the gun at my at-the-time residence (school or co-op) until Ohio passes CCW and I will then start carrying. Luckily I live off campus so I don't have to worry about keeping guns here. I could always just get one and not tell them about it but I don't want to go that route for the moment.

[ENC]

If you can get ahold of "More Guns Less Crime" By John Lott you might let her read it but I doubt it would convince her.

Try to take her shooting.

[TheeBadOne]

1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

3. Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.

4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

7. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

8. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

10. The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not
understand.

12. The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the
others.

13. 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

14. Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.

15. Know guns, Know peace and safety. No guns, no peace nor
safety.

16. You don't shoot to kill; You shoot to stay alive.

17. 911 - government sponsored Dial a Prayer.

18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

19. Criminals love gun control - it makes their jobs safer.

20. If Guns cause Crime, then Matches cause Arson.

[Mike Irwin]

OK, you pretty much don't live at home, and you're going to be 21.

DO WHAT THE HELL YOU WANT. IT'S YOUR LIFE.

[azthistletoe]

(echo) ^^^

[Ukraine Train]

If push comes to shove I will just do what I want but I have a good relationship with my parents and I don't want to step on their toes.

[spacemanspiff]

it sounds like you really love your parents and want to please them. but you also want to make decisions in your life because you are (hopefully) a responsible adult.

on one hand, i envy the close relationship you have with your family. but on the other hand, i admire your realization of the need for the best self defense tools.

would buying a handgun drive a wedge between you and your mother?

[winstonsmith]

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

Just tell them, This is what I'm doing. I'm not a little boy anymore, and this isn't yesterdays world. I'm not going to force my beleifs on you, and I won't bring it into your house if you don't want me too. But I dunno, I might not feel safe coming to your house unarmed....

Ask them why a handgun is more dangerous than a rifle, or a shotgun. I dunno, couldnt you do alot more damage with a shotgun? Then why is the handgun the issue?

Oh, I forgot, the evil death rays of tacticality that convince you to shoot little babies and cute puppies
:rolleyes:

I'm in a similar situation, except farther back on the course of convincing my parents. And I actually have to convince them, I'm 15. If you have any questions, or need support, PM me.

[8Balls]

Doesnt she trust you enough to have pistol. My mom and dad helped me to get my first permit when i was fifteen. It was for .22 CZ kadet. Few months later I got my first Glock. They trust me and think im careful enough to own guns...

[Daniel T]

If you're not at home, and you're over 21, get a handgun. If your mom has a problem with it, don't tell her. She doesn't need to know if that knowledge is going to cause a problem.

[Mike Irwin]

I, too, value my relationship with my parents.

It's only right that you would want to maintain that relationship with them.

However, that's a two way street. It's only right that your parents should abide by your decisions, whether or not they consider them right or wrong, because you are an adult, and NOT issue you what are essentially ultimatums on how you choose to partake of legal activities.

If you allow them to control you on this, what's the next hot button?

"You are not going to buy at car?"

You are not going to move out of state?

You're not going to take that job?


Ultimately, what's better?

Your having a temporary bump in the road over an issue like this, or your growing resentment because your parents won't treat you as an adult and accept the choices that you make in your life?

[George Hill]

I never told my Dad when I got my first motorcycle...
... or when I first had sex...
... or smoked pot...
...or skipped church...
...or a lot of of other things that they don't need to know.
If this is going to be a CCW gun, the point of the CCW is the CC part. Meaning CONCEALED... HIDDEN... PEOPLE DON'T KNOW.

Don't tell ANYONE you have a gun. No One.
Why?
They don't need to know.

[Bill Hook]

Don't ask, don't tell. ;)

[Hazwaste]

I think it's admirable and right that you care about their feelings concerning the subject.

I had a similar problem at your age. I wanted a motorcycle and M&D didn't want me to have one. I was living off-campus and paying for my own schooling, but M&D were still paying for my apartment and food, so technically I was still under their parental authority. I obeyed their wishes. The relationship was more important than a motorcycle. Not only that, they would have chopped off the $ if I had defied them, and despite thinking that I was "living my own life", I was really still a dependant.

On the other hand, what if your parents told you that they did not want you wearing seat belts as long as they were supporting you? Or owning a fire extinguisher? Would the fact that you're under their financial care, and therefore their authority give them the right to forbid you from owning legal life-saving equipment?

Final wishywashy answer: I can't tell you what to do. If you believe you're mature enough to own a sidearm, then you're mature enough to figure out the answer to your problem. :)

[4v50 Gary]

Do what a man does (and run like heck when the wimmen git angry).

[BHPshooter]

Ah, the whole "pistols are more dangerous and evil than long guns" mindset.

First off, ANY rifle is more dangerous and lethal than a pistol. And don't let them give you the "if you have a handgun in the home, you're eight times more likely to have something bad happen," or "They'll just take it from you and use it on you!" :rolleyes:

I'm 19 (will be 20 in another month), but my parents let me get 2 pistols. The first one I'd been nagging them about for years, so that one was easy. The second one made major waves, especially since my Dad didn't want me to get it, but my Mom bought it anyway. :D

Some of these little "negotiations" take a lot of time -- probably longer than it would take to wait until you're 21 and just buy whatever the hell you want. It really is none of their business, IMO, especially if you are responsible and don't live at home.

Just let us know which one you get! :D :rolleyes: :uhoh:

Good luck.
Wes

[Baba Louie]

On your 21st, treat yourself to the handgun of your choice, take a class, excell within the class, do some form of competition, maybe bring home a plaque or trophy, heck get your CCW (out of state I guess, till Ohio comes to their senses) or become an NRA Instructor.

Then, invite your parents to join you on a shooting holiday... some clay pigeons, some rifle/target and then ask them if they'd like to try their hand at something with less power, but still fun and challenging.

My mom isn't big on shooting, but would join us once in awhile and shoot a .22. She even got pretty good at it when she saw my wife shoot her own Ruger MkII very well.

Nothing you can say will change her mind. Showing her responsible behavior and actions (class training, competition, maybe a "license", even if its out-of-state, training others in safe use, etc) will go far to let her know that her little boy has grown up and is now his own man. Whether she likes it or not. Letting go of parental control is difficult for some Mothers.

You'll always be her baby, but you'll still be the young man she can be proud of and have confidence in. Even if she's P.O.'d about you owning an eeeevil handgun.

Unless of course you plan on moving back in with her/them after your schooling is over. Her house, her rules then apply.

Adios

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

You say you don't live at home except for 1 month out of the year. So, where do you live?

College?
Pretty tough to keep a handgun in a college dorm room (legally). Our school gun club will store a private firearm, and other club members living off campus are willing to store guns for friends. You might look into something along those lines.

Your own home/apartment?
No problem. Buy your handgun, keep it at home, and don't tell your mother. She doesn't need an inventory of every item you purchase (that is, so long as she isn't footing the bill)

Some sorta joint custody arrangement between divorced parents?
Sorry, can't help ya there. But remember, handguns are (usually) designed to be concealable.


One thing that may help is to take up some sort of competitive shooting. Give yourself a day-to-day, ordinary, nonthreatening reason to own a handgun. My mother was stubornly against me purchasing a handgun at first(I already owned one when I brought up the subject, I just wanted to know if I should tell her) But once she found out that I was running our school's pistol team, she seemed quite happy with the idea, and asked me when I was gonna buy my own handgun. :D

It will work out somehow in the end, so don't sweat it either way.

[OEF_VET]

This may sound harsh, but please don't take offense to it.

Maybe it's time to cut the apron strings, or at least loosen the knot on them. Ok, you've got a close relationship with your folks, that's great. I'm assuming they're paying for your schooling, if not in full, at least partially. That's wonderful. But, heck, do you tell mom about every coed who visits your bedroom? I doubt it. Do you tell mom about every beer you drink with your friends (especially since you're not 21 yet)? I seriously doubt it. Now, keeping secrets from spouses isn't good, but moms are a totally different story altogether. There are some things that moms don't need to know about their kids.

Buy what you want, with your own money, and don't tell them about it until after graduating. When you do visit, leave it at home. You wouldn't want mom to be putting away your laundry and find a gun, which she forbade from being in her house, sitting in your underwear drawer.

Just my $.02

Frank

[280PLUS]

my wife still hides things from her mom and dad,,,and she's 47

i laugh because i'm just the opposite and make sure my mom hears about all the "bad" stuff i'm doing cause it riles her up

like when i bought my (12 at the time) kid the 870 express for xmas,,,

we weren't allowed to get TOY guns for xmas

let alone a red ryder

i can still hear her now,,,

"a SHOTGUN for CHRISTMAS??!!

:evil:

[AJ Dual]

Assuming your birthday wasn't yesterday, you've got less than a year to wait.

I'd go with the flow. And work twoards economic independance.

[jade]

i've sort of been where you are, except, that i never lived with my parents after i got into shooting. my parents were both anti, although my mother has come around a bit. my father is very against me owning or shooting guns. my father (according to my mother anyway) refused to pay for a semester of college because if he did, he was afraid i would have enough money to buy a gun. it turned out, i bought the gun and paid my tuition. he seems to have the impression that i buy guns every month. he still isn't to happy that i go shooting so much, but he has learned to live with it.

buy the gun. you don't have to tell them about it right away. if you do tell your parents, they will learn to live with it. it is your life and your choice, not theirs.

jade

[Ukraine Train]

When I'm not at home I'm either at school or co-oping. I'm home two weeks in the winter and two or three in the summer and the occasional weekend. My co-op pay covers all of my personal expenses and part of tuition. The rest is covered by loans (in my name) and scholarships. The only thing they really pay for any more is my car insurance so they really can't do much to stop me at this point, I would just rather do it with their blessing, so to speak.

Getting back to my original intent for this thread, though, where can I find some info on the uses of guns in self defense and the like?

Thanks for everyone's input.

[Holly76201]

I agree with Frank. Loosen those apron strings. It will be good for you AND your Mother.
I AM a Mother of a 23 y.o. daughter and a 21 y.o. son. She is in CA and owns a .410, but has never really been that interested in handguns, although I made sure she knows the safety rules and basics of operation.
My son, and maybe this is a gender difference, IS interested in handguns and wants to go shooting with my husband and me next time he's home. He is fully financially independent, pays all his own expenses, although he's not in school [wish he was]. Anyway, if he pays as much attention and is good at being safe like he was as a teenager, I will probably give him a .22 for Christmas or next B'day [April].
21 is traditionally an age when parents have to relinquish control, if they still have any. It is appropriate and beneficial for both parents and "child".
And as so many others have previously stated, there are some aspects of your life that parents don't NEED to know. Like drinking, sex, buying/using guns. Just make sure you're being safe with all behaviors and don't drink, have sex and use guns at the same time.:eek: :evil:
Holly

[Old Fuff]

Ukraine Train:

The trouble with your parents is that they love you so much they don’t want to let go. Their very worst nightmare is that something -- anything -- might happen to you. Maybe from you’re point of view they’re fears are foolish and irrational, and they may be. But accept the idea that in opposing guns they see it as an issue of protecting you from something they are afraid of.

Consider yourself lucky. There are parents (so called) that don’t really care, and you see it in the way their kids behave.

I suggest you consider going in another direction. Rather then emphasize the “people shooting” aspect of handguns forget about self-defense for the time being and instead point out the “sporting” side of handguns. Get some information from the NRA about bulleye target shooting. Don’t hesitate to find some material about the U.S. International Shooting Team, that competes in all kinds of tournaments including the Olympics.

Consider making that first handgun a .22, perhaps a Ruger Mk. II or a good but used revolver. Spend some time learning basic marksmanship. I have personally known an number of modern gunfighters, men like Bill Jordan, Skeeter Skelton and Jeff Cooper, who survived a number of shootings, and all of them admitted that they had learned basic marksmanship long before they got into defensive issues. They also strongly recommended that anyone master the basics before they moved into anything else.

Your mother will feel much better when she realizes that you are more interested in shooting out the center of a paper target then shooting out the center of another person.

When you can consistently hit a target the size of a fifty-cent coin at 25 feet then you can consider going on to better things.

[Trempel]

Weird. My mom was okay with me owning a handgun - my first firearm was a revolver. She really started worring when I bought my first C&R Mauser. Then again she understood that a long gun is a more powerful weapon.

[Jason Demond]

When I was 18, I wanted to get a handgun. I always wanted one, I grew up with them. I have been a shooter, since I was big enough to even hold a firearm. My mother was dead set against it, but my Dad supported me, because I was an adult. He sold me my first gun (Series 70 Colt Gold Cup) for $1.00. I was upfront with my Mother, and there wasn't a whole lot she could do to stop me. She learned to live with it over time, and now excepts it. Matter of fact, she even excepted a .38 Special, that I gave her for Christmas one year.
Thanks to my Dad, I had five handguns before I even turned 20.

Be upfront with you Mother, but make sure that she knows, that she has no say in your decision.

[spacemanspiff]

jason, if you still have that gold cup, i'll buy it for $10. thats 1000% ROI. whaddaya say?

[Barbara]

Eh, tell them you're gay, you dropped out of college, you've dyed your hair purple, and you've become a Democrat. Then tell them you're kidding and only bought a handgun. :)

If I were you, I'd sign your mom up for novice-level training class and go with her. If she gets the opportunity to get some experience, she probably won't be nearly as opposed to them.

[Majic]

Time to grow up and be a man. Make your own desisions. Mom needs to realize this too.

[Baba Louie]

Getting back to my original intent for this thread, though, where can I find some info on the uses of guns in self defense and the like?

http://www.gutterfighting.org/gun.html

http://www.donrearic.com/trigger.html

http://www.shootersbookshelf.com/index.shtml/5

A few places which might have ..."some info on the uses of guns in self defense and the like"...

Adios

[HABU]

Get a new mom.:D

[Jason Demond]

From my cold dead hands, Spaceman!:D

[nick89302]

Sounds like a little bit of a power struggle. You are growing up and your mom doesn't want to let you go. Like others have already said, do what you want. They don't have to know.

[10-Ring]

If you've got a good relationship w/ your parents & want to keep it that way, MOVE OUT! You'll be 21 & can make your decisions one your own ;)

[Ukraine Train]

Update... Had a talk with my parents and explained to them how it's important that I have the ability to defend myself and how even in our quiet neighborhood there was a woman who was kidnapped in her own car by two perps a couple years ago. So in the end my mom went from "no way in heck" to "I'm not sure I like it but go ahead":D So, hopefully before January is out I'll be the proud owner of a handgun.

[Sunray]

"...I don't want to step on their toes..." You know, no matter what you do in your life, you'll always be her baby and she'll always think you can't do anything without her. It got nothing to do with you, how you deal with the world or anything else. Parents, especially moms, are just like that. Mom, will always want to tell you what you should do.
Ukraine Train, you're not stepping on anybody's toes. You're making your own decisions. Unless mom and pop are paying for what you do, just do what you think is right.
You know it really doesn't matter what she says. You're still her baby. Sounds like Mom doesn't trust your judgement. Get used to it because it never stops.
Oh, and take them out to dinner on you as often as you can. Mom doesn't care but your da does. And spend as much time as you can with your da. Doing anything. Trust me. It'll be something you remember.

[achadwick]

I'm with Thefumegator on the relative danger of owning a rifle versus a handgun. However, shotgun at close range is FAR more deadly than either a handgun or a rifle.

Your mother's objections to you owning a handgun are obviously driven by emotions not logic so appealing to her sense of reason might be ineffective. Perhaps addressing the emotional issues would be more effective. The NRA publishes a series of stories called "The Armed Citizen" that describe situations where real people defend themselves using firearms of all types. Many of the stories involve handguns. "The Armed Citizen appears monthly in The American Rifleman and in The American Hunter magazines. Current stories are available on their website. You are a member of the NRA, right?

Another approach would be to take as much training in the safe and effective use of firearms then explain to your mother how you have had enough training to safely use your handgun. Maybe all she needs in some reassurance that you will be safe with your new handgun.

[Min]

Be sure to show your Mom that .50 Desert Eagle you bought, in gleaming nickel. Show her how big the rounds are too.

Actually, I could go for one of them Bushmaster carbon fiber AR pistols. :D

[Dionysusigma]

I was gonna suggest that you start with a Ruger Mk.2.

Get your shotgun, the Ruger, and a watermelon. Show your mother what the Ruger does to the watermelon. Then blast the melon with the shottie. Maybe then, she'll see how irrational her fear of handguns is as opposed to her fear of shotguns. ;)

[twoblink]

Mom..

I can buy one of two things:

#1) A handgun
#2) A cell phone

When a stranger points a knife at me.. which do you think will save my life?
When a stranger points a gun at me... which do you think will save my life?

When a stranger points a gun at YOU... which will save YOUR life?

[greg700]

When I hit 21, I was already living on my own. My father is a NRA Training Officer, and I was always on at least one shooting team growing up. Usually two, an air rifle team, and a smallbore team. My mother, however, is violently anti-gun. It was always amusing to watch my mom get nervous when we brought the team precision smallbore rifles home to clean them. She couldn't get past "There are X number of guns in my house now."

When I turned 18, I made the mistake of telling her that I purchased a Mini-14. She is still angry at me, but in a passive agressive way ("I'm just upset that you wasted all that money on something you will never use"). Since I was still living at home, I had to respect her wishes and have a friend keep it for me until I moved away.

I have since told her that my opinions on gun ownership are fundamentally different from hers, and that I will continue to own the firearms of my choosing, and that she will have to reconcile herself with that.

That being said, I just don't bring it up. She has no idea what firearms I own, or what I do with them. I don't lie to her, and if she asked me a direct question about my gun ownership, I would either decline to answer, or tell her the truth. My father has warned me that I had better never let her know that I have a CCH, or she will never stop worrying about me. I guess my operating philosphy is "What she don't know won't hurt her."


Oh, I had a friend who was in a similar situation with his wife. She wouldn't let him purchase any weapons, but he had managed to get her grudging acceptance that he was not going to get rid of the firearms that he already owned. When he wanted to purchase a new firearm, he would get ready to 'go to the range,' except he would put a broomstick in his gun-case. On his way home, his new firearm occupied said gun case, and the broomstick was left in the trunk of his car. As far as I know, she still hasn't picked up on this trick.

[Barbara]

The parental issue, I can understand, and I agree don't ask/don't tell is probably the best policy. But I cannot, from either side, understand having to lie/not tell a spouse something. If one spouse is not interested, that's cool, but I cannot imagine spending the rest of my life with someone so fundamentally opposed to something I care about or spending my life with someone who would lie to me about their beliefs or actions.

Might explain why I'm not married, but still. It just seems wrong.

[sw442642]

1. It's a power struggle. Moms are like that. No info will influence her
2. Do it and don't tell or wait to you are totally independent and do what you want.

I went through the same thing when I grew a beard in 1964. I shaved it off to make Mom happy. In retrospect, I should have told her to shove it. Good relationnships with Mom as an adult mean that they don't tell you what to do. Wait till you make more serious life choices and you see what I mean if you are not strong now.

[Werewolf]

If push comes to shove I will just do what I want but I have a good relationship with my parents and I don't want to step on their toes.

Really?
You stated that they think you'll go psycho if you own a handgun and that's a trusting, loving relationship? I don't think so...

Based on your original post you're not gonna convince your Mom - ever. And since she's turned your Dad against the idea too that's just icing on the evidence cake that says your Mom isn't ever gonna like it that you own a handgun.

But you know what - that's her problem not yours. She's gotta cut the strings and deal with the fact that you make your own decisions now. You're a grown man - at least the law says so anyway - so start acting like one and make a decision. You either want a handgun or you don't. That desire is either stronger than the desire to please your parents or it isn't. The reasons you want a handgun are either good enough for you to get one or they aren't. So decide and then accept and deal with the consequences - that's what men do.

[zahc]

I've been ok'd with handguns since I passed parental training aroung 13 yrs old. I'm 18, live at home, and keep a handgun in my top dresser drawer.

Sorry:D

sucks being dependant on parents anyway.

[mountainclmbr]

The most dangerous thing most people do on a daily basis is drive a car. I am a bit hardheaded and I would have told my folks that I will give up my desire for a handgun when they totally give up driving or taking any sort of transportation. They would have said "how will we make a living or get food?". And I would say "If I need to protect myself, what will I do? Dead is dead no matter how you get there."

[Ukraine Train]

Y'all should read the entire thread before replying.... in my last post I said that I convinced my mom of my view point and she's ok with me getting a pistol now.:)

[mod12]

ukraine, i admire your concern for your parents wishes. your attitude is a testimonial to their love and hopes for you and evidence of their stewardship. a sad fact of our society is that all offspring don't share your values. there are parents that don't deserve the respect and admiration that yours do.

i feel confidant that you and your folks will work this out. buying a gun and hiding it would only make matters worse, and i believe, would not make you very proud of yourself. i gather that in a short time you will be self sufficient and "on your own". don't ever believe that! i found myself seeking my parents advice and assistance up to their deaths. my dad at 89 and my mom at 92. don't harm your parents respect and confidence in you by being a sneak. they love you and sincerely believe they are protecting you. they've already demonstrated their respect for you as an individual by recognizing your responsibility in owning other guns.

you'll know when the proper time arrives to bring up the topic of a hand gun. your parents will recognize the futility of their opposition. although they may not like it they will they will respect your position.

i have full confidence in your ability to handle this situation. always remember that they love you above life itself.