(PA) Parking Garage Shooting


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Beren
November 14, 2003, 02:14 PM
Not sure what to make of this yet, but I thought you might find it interesting. The papers carry somewhat conflicting reports.

It /looks/ like the deceased spotted his ex-girlfriend in the company of some other people outside a club, and encountered them again in the parking garage. Note that the deceased had a restraining order against him barring him from contact with the ex-girlfriend due to earlier instances of physical abuse. (Once allegedly choking the ex-girlfriend, and allegedly kicking their 2 year-old son four times in the stomach on another occasion.)

The deceased approached and began to punch the shooter. The shooter reportedly fired two shots into the deceased's chest, dropped the gun, and ran.

http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20031114arrestp5.asp
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/pittsburgh/s_165166.html

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Matthew Courtney
November 14, 2003, 03:01 PM
A restraining order can't stop people from becoming violent. If someone violates one and starts hitting people and you still can't shoot him, then the restraining order has no value at all. I don't have a clue about what Pennsylvania law says, but I don't think that I could vote to convict.

SodaPop
November 14, 2003, 03:09 PM
Wait until Christmas shopping season starts.:D

Steve in PA
November 14, 2003, 05:33 PM
This isn't gun related......but some info on protection orders.

Here's how Protection From Abuse (PFA) Orders work in PA.

Once they are issued should the suspect violate the order......the other party needs only to fill out an Indirect Criminal Complaint (ICC), which amounts to the person protected by the order stating that the suspect violated the order by doing......X,Y or Z.

The ICC is then used as a warrant to pick up the suspect anywhere in the state. He is then lodged in jail. He/she may or may not be released on bail. A hearing is held in from of a judge and if there is evidence that he/she violated the order......they can get lodged for up to 90 days.

There are several conditions that can be put into a PFA. The most common is refered to as a "full order", meaning no contact at all (no physical contact, phone calls, email, etc), or a "no hit" PFA which means the persons can live together, but if the suspect makes physical contact (hit, slap, punch, etc)......there is a whole list than can be checked.

So, no a PFA is not a bullet proof shield for the victim, but it is a tool the LEO's can use to protect the victim. Since most arrests (domestic-type) can only be made if we observe some kind of evidence, such as a red cheek from a slap, a fat lip, etc. As long as their was an existing PFA, the victim states the other person did this or that........thats all we need.

Now a rant. PFA's are highly, highly abused.......by most people. If I had a nickel for every person I've arrested for violating a PFA.....only to have the couple walk into the court room holding hands, I'd be rich. Usually there was no violation of the order, only a verbal fight with one party (usually female) knowing there is a PFA......wants the other person out of the house, so she calls and says he violated the order. Even if we see no evidence of inury, if she fills out the ICC, we must arrest.

Luckily, the judge who usually hears these cases throws a major fit when the victim refuses to testify. I've seen him throw both parties in jail for as he calls it, wasting the courts time. And I must say, the abuse has gone way down.

Frank5
November 15, 2003, 09:24 AM
Steve.......good post. The part about PFAs being abused is dead on. If you don't mind me asking, where in NE PA are you from?? I grew up in the Scranton area.

About this incident in Pittsburgh: I have a feeling that there might be more to this than is being released at this time. This is just gut instinct. This area is known for violence & lots of unsavory types.

My wife used to work in Pittsburgh when we lived in western PA.

Steve in PA
November 15, 2003, 10:56 AM
A little ole town about 20 miles south of Scranton along I-81......Wilkes-Barre, or as its coming to be known as "Dodge City".......lots of shootings in and around the area as of late!

7.62FullMetalJacket
November 15, 2003, 12:23 PM
Murder is still against the law, paper or no.

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