[Skunkabilly]

How do the flash signatures compare on the two? How about recoil reduction?

Rifle will be used for competition hence the desire for less muzzle rise (even if it is a hopped up .22) but don't want to be an inconsiderate jerk if shooting it at the square range but I don't plan on doing it often. I suppose at a training class people won't care about the noise.

Are there any major flaws in the design other than making a whole lotta noise; are Russian veterans deaf?

Will they go on the M4-profile Dissipator barrels?

No AR yet (obviously) but planning ahead. I might have a lead as far as jobs in Arizona...hopefully :o

[LeonCarr]

If you are shooting on the line with a Bushmaster with an AK brake, the shooters on either side of you will hate you :). The Wilson brake is supposed to be a pretty good one. In my experience, I can BARELY tell the difference in muzzle rise and felt recoil between the AK braked Bushmaster and the plain barrel Bushmaster. As far as the wilson brake goes, it is a good one, but I would spend the money on ammo instead.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[MolonLabe416]

The break isn't needed on a 223 IMHO. Appy the money to a carbine class from Randy Cain, Bill Jeans, et al. You'll find with the proper technique, you really don't need it.

[Soap]

Get a Glock.

[LeonCarr]

Hey Daniel,

Why are you recommending a Glock on a muzzlebrake thread? I am a Glock guy, but what does a muzzlebrake on an AR have to do with a Glock? Maybe one day Glock will make a .223 (a glorious day to be sure) but what does a Glock pistol have to do with an AR muzzlebrake?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Med 10]

Some people just dont get the joke.

[B27]

The Wilson brake works, plus it gives you a fair imitation of a preban look...

http://www.fototime.com/1CFE8EEAB2EB5D3/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/52231FF70375CAD/standard.jpg

[444]

I have actually seen the Bushmaster AK brake fired at night next to other brakes including the Wilson. The AK brake exhibits a huge flash signature; not as much as a bare barrel, but huge. The Wilson is not as good as a true flash suppressor, but the flash is at least as good as any other brake. The flash from a bare muzzle is a fireball about three feet in diameter.
I own a Wilson muzzle brake on one of my ARs and I feel that it significantly reduces muzzle rise. One example: a friend and I were shooting El Presidente's with our ARs. I was using my Bushmaster with the Wilson brake and he was using a pre-ban Colt carbine. I was shooting well over twice as fast as he was with much better hits. He tried my gun and later removed his pre-ban flash suppressor and replaced it with a Wilson brake. I was still shooting much better than he was (:D ), but he was convinced that there was a significant difference in muzzle rise. I agree. A lot of people respond to these threads with the idea that you are using a brake to counteract bone jarring recoil. This isn't the case. You are trying to keep muzzle flip to a minimum for faster follow up shots.
I have never taken a carbine course with a bare muzzled gun, or an AK braked gun, so I can't comment on the differnence. I have taken several with the Wilson brake and am well satisfied.
I also agree that for a post-ban gun, the Wilson brake provides a look similar to a military flash suppressor, which I like. The Wilson brake is cheap, it isn't like you are spending a real significant amount of money on it. It isn't a question of saving the money and taking a carbine course. You would be lucky to cover your gas money with the cost of a Wilson brake.

[Redlg155]

If you are open to another suggestion I'd look at the KKF (http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/page/page/8932.htm) muzzle brake as well. This is a A3 Tac Brake. 1 1/2" long and mounted on a 14.5" barrel. He also has an A2 which is about the size of a standard flash supressor. His are one of the most realistic looking post ban muzzle brakes out there. This one is on a 9mm, but I've also shot a .223 equipped with one and it works super.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid89/p40e1fb2b3d2a1fe5d27c5e7df0f61be2/fa8c5e58.jpg

As for the Bushmaster AK brake...wow! Talk about a blaster! That thing will definitely redirect some pressure waves. I had one and it was pretty loud. Kinda reminds me of an Artillery muzzle brake we had on our 155 howitzers.

Good Shooting
Red

[Skunkabilly]

Just wondering, does everyone feel the same way (excessively loud) about their AK clones?

[Nero Steptoe]

If the AWB expires, then we'll be able to have threaded barrels on our AR's again. If you acquire a post-ban prior to that glorious occasion, however, I'd suggest that you look at a Smith brake, or some other kind of post-ban brake that doesn't require threading the barrel and permanently-attaching the brake.

I've never read a positive comment about the Bushy AK brakes. In addition to their loudness and Commy appearance, they're usually welded or pinned on.

Working on the barrels of AR's that have permanently-attached brakes is a nightmare.

[444]

"Working on the barrels of AR's that have permanently-attached brakes is a nightmare."

That may be, but I don't have to worry about it because, just like Redlg155 I just send it to KKF and he worries about that (Wilson, put on my Wilson brake). I have my m4orgery at KKF right now to have the A3 brake installed and the Bushmaster mini-Y-comp brake removed. He does great work, the brakes work great, and he is very reasonable in price. The catch ? It takes a long time to get the work done. The last upper I sent him took about six months to get back. That upper was a bare muzzle, 16" Bushmaster upper. I sent it to Kurt to have the A3 brake installed and the barrel tunred down to an ultra lightweight profile. This upper has been there for only about two months.


If the AWB sunsets, you won't find me replacing a single one of my muzzle brakes. The brake provides a much more useful benefit to me. I can use decreased muzzle flip on every shot I fire. I seriously doubt that muzzle flash will ever be a factor for me.

[john l]

I have an RRA with a Wilson and a Bushmaster with a 14.5 in barrel with the AK brake ( 16 inches overall )
I think the AK brake is more effective than the Wilson, but we are talking about 5.56 to begin with.
But I will say that if I could only have one AR, It would have the AK brake on it, as it really does a good job- no muzzle rise, and that means quicker competition shot to shots.
Don't worry about the whiners at a public range- how many times have you been there with a 22 lr rifle and the clown next to you has a 44 mag that keeps going off juuussst as you are gonna pull the trigger.

john l

[Soap]

Leon,

Sort of a long story. It just a generalistic statement of indifference or sarcasm. For example, say someone asks 9mm vs. .45 or Benelli vs. 870, someone may say "Get a Glock." The reason why that expression is used is because of countless times on gun boards people will ask about something specific and someone will reply on a Benelli thread with something like "Get an 870" or a 1911 thread, "Get a Glock". That is cool that people like other things but it doesn't really advance the discussion of which brake is better. I dunno...I talked to Skunk on the phone and he got the joke... For example, I love 1911s, but on a Hi-Power thread, I wouldn't start talking about 1911s. In short, when people recommend something outside the scope of the thread, I can't help but laugh, hence my sarcastic statement. I wasn't trying to single anyone out, since we all sidetrack...heck I've done it on this very thread :o

[LeonCarr]

Hey Daniel,

I wasn't trying to be a drama king or pee in anybody's cheerios, but I was just kinda wondering. I have been known to say the exact same thing :), especially when it is a 1911 thread, because I do not care much for 1911s. Actually, I just flat out don't like them. I do appreciate humor, but sometimes my sense of humor is about as dry as a James Bond martini. Thanks for your understanding.

To keep on thread, I still think a muzzlebrake on a .223 is unnecessary.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[AirPower]

Okay I've thinking about this for some time. There are quite afew imitation flashhiders for postbans, ie. KKF, CavArms, etc. But some people also claim that they work great as breaks. So what about preban A2 birdcage flashhiders? Do they work as breaks? I always thought these postban breaks were just for looks, or to pretect crown, but does it actually do more to steady muzzle than flashhiders?

[444]

Yes, muzzle brakes and flash suppressors are two different things. The good ones are designed for that purpose. There are "fake" flash suppressors out there. In fact KKF sells one, along with others. This isn't the same thing as a muzzle brake. I have never seen the point to putting on a fake flash suppressor when you can add something that actually does something instead.

[Soap]

That KKF brake looks awesome! I didn't even know that they made one that looked that good. Has anyone actually used one yet?


Leon,

That took me about an hour to try to explain! For some reason it is one of those things that I just blurt out on a thread or conversation for some reason...just had to think of the reason! :D

[Redlg155]

That KKF brake looks awesome! I didn't even know that they made one that looked that good. Has anyone actually used one yet?

Daniel,

Yep. That pic is of my personal weapon. :D


Airpower,

The preban A2 flash hiders also function as a brake, but it does a better job of eliminating a bit of the dust signature when firing prone than it does an actual muzzle brake. The brakes from KKF are a bit more efficient than the A2s. The reason being is that with a A2 flashider the exit hole is extremely large. With a KKF brake (and similar) the exit hole is a bit larger than the bullet diameter, but not by much. That allows for a chamber to direct the gas wherever the exit ports are located.

This is a frontal pic to give you an idea. The bore looks large because it is a 9mm. It's still kinda dirty cause I still have to clean it...but it's a pic. :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid89/pf58d8c52940e9c4e8dc190a5869f9055/fa867d9b.jpg

Good Shooting
Red