[Youngster]

As the title says, what is the slickest, most positive, least mental bandwidth demanding pump action out there right now? I'm thinking its either the Ithaca or the Winchester 1300/SXP but i haven't tried them all.

[JimKirk]

Have not shot or handled a new Ithaca, but the Browning BPS is smooothe!

Jimmy K

[gfpd707]

Benelli supernova.

[John Peddie]

Ithaca 37, if you can live with a cross-bolt safety; BPS if you like top-tang.

M 37 is a bit more pointable, to me; BPS is comparatively heavy. Both are butter-smooth.

The 37 is a lineal descendant of the Remington 17, which was designed as a light pump for upland use, and (I've read) made only in 20 gauge.

No wonder the 37 is so sprightly.

[sheepdog]

...did not realize Winchester shotguns were back in production?...I love the old 1200...would like to try the newest 1300..some I've tried and one I had were not as smooth as the 1200...and the BPS is a dream!!! Fine and reasonably affordable...but not to cut down and carry in a truck!!!

[xm21]

I just read a report on the new Turkish made Winchester SPX in The Gun Nut blog and Field and Streams shotgun writer says it is very slick reincarnation of the 1200/1300 speed pump.MSRP of 400 dollars.

[reckless carolinian]

Ithaca 37 only available in 20? I don't think that's accurate, John. Its available in a 12, check out the Ithaca site.

Here's one for the truckhttp://www.ithacagun.com/defense37s.html

And for huntinghttp://www.ithacagun.com/featherlight.html

[oletymer]

The new Ithacas are available in 12 , 20, and 28 gauge. A 16 gauge is being released this year.

[sheepdog]

...bad links...I'd like to see the truck gun...had an 8-shot satin nickel in the 70s that was gorgeous...

[Hunterdad]

I havent handled a new Wingmaster, but have heard they are smooth as butter.

[ImARugerFan]

My wingmaster is a dream. To be honest, after a shot any pump I've handled seems to magically pump itself. This year after the dust settled after shooting at a deer I had to check my mossberg to see if I had cycled the action or not because I had no recollection of doing it. I had.

The problem with both the m37 and the benelli nova is that god forsaken rattle. It drives me nuts how much they rattle with the slightest shake of the gun. Don't get me wrong, I love my Ithaca, it's just a peeve.

[Hunterdad]

I have a '72 Wingmaster and always have to check if I cycled it. It is got to be one if not the best pump gun ever made.

[ArmedBear]

I have an Express, and I don't think it takes any more "mental bandwidth" than the smoothest Wingmaster ever made. It just doesn't feel as good to pump it.

I don't have a Mossberg, but I've come around to thinking that the controls are better than Remington's, across the board. That means less "mental bandwidth". It's not a fancy shotgun, though.

Sadly, the Model 12 is not being produced right now. Maybe Winchester will resurrect it, if Ithaca does well enough with the 37. Browning builds the BPS well, but it's a heavy sucker.

There's only one safety design that has ever come off for a quick shot without my consciously knowing how I did it, and that's a tang safety. To me, the greatest "mental bandwidth" requirement is operating the safety, not the slickness of the slide.

Seriously, though, if you don't want to have to worry about operating the slide, they make these shotguns now that don't require pumping. Lots of them. Even Beretta, arguably the gold standard gas action (not the only one that works, but the one to which others are compared), has gotten into the HD shotgun game. Of course, another gold standard auto maker, Benelli, been in it for a while. They just aren't as cheap as a Mossberg 500.:D

[Dirtpile]

ImARugerFan:

The problem with both the m37 and the benelli nova is that god forsaken rattle. It drives me nuts how much they rattle with the slightest shake of the gun. Don't get me wrong, I love my Ithaca, it's just a peeve.

If it's a forend rattle you could try some cloth tape (cloth electrical tape would be best, try a BMW or Mercedes dealer if you can't find it) on the inside of the slide. I put some over the dimples in the slide on my Mossberg and it's as quiet as can be now.

[ArmedBear]

try a BMW or Mercedes dealer if you can't find it

Why stop there? Just go to a Lambo or Ferrari dealer for the tape.:D

[ImARugerFan]

If it's a forend rattle you could try some cloth tape (cloth electrical tape would be best, try a BMW or Mercedes dealer if you can't find it) on the inside of the slide. I put some over the dimples in the slide on my Mossberg and it's as quiet as can be now.


Interesting idea, I'll have to check it out.

[Buzzard]

Or you can flip the thing over and use a 3mm Allen wrench on the two screws under the forearm of that Benelli. Just don't snug 'em up too much or you'll tighten the action down.

[MCgunner]

AB, the Mossberg isn't the smoothest out of the box, but after a few hunting seasons, it "fluffs and buffs" itself pretty well. :D

I love the Winchester 1300 and the Ithaca/BPS actions for smooth and can't argue THAT one. Never tried any of the spaghetti guns.

[gfpd707]

just get a supernova. no rattle

[MCgunner]

I don't care about rattle. I don't hunt deer with shotguns. If I did, I'd use a H&R single shot. But, that's why God gave man rifles. :D

[CrashInBlack]

I have an old Ithaca 37 and I can honestly say it's the best feeling action of any shotgun I've ever tried.

[RippinSVT]

I am by no means a shotgunner, but my minty 1960's Winchester 1200 is extremely smooth. Smoother than my 870 SuperMag was, but that's not saying much as neither are what you would call "high-grade".

[Fred Fuller]

I want to get hands on one of the Armscor/RIA Mark 5s. If history is any indication, and if I can see well enough to read the photographs, that one ought to be hands down the slickest 'new' pumpgun going. Note I said ought to be and not "is." I won't know for sure till I can handle one and use it for a while.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/rockislandm5tactical12gashotgunpartac-sgn-m5.aspx

The reason I say that is because it looks an awful lot like the old High Standard Flite King, slightly redesigned to include two action bars. And I have a real soft spot for those...

lpl

[Youngster]

I have an Express, and I don't think it takes any more "mental bandwidth" than the smoothest Wingmaster ever made. It just doesn't feel as good to pump it.

I don't have a Mossberg, but I've come around to thinking that the controls are better than Remington's, across the board. That means less "mental bandwidth". It's not a fancy shotgun, though.

Sadly, the Model 12 is not being produced right now. Maybe Winchester will resurrect it, if Ithaca does well enough with the 37. Browning builds the BPS well, but it's a heavy sucker.

There's only one safety design that has ever come off for a quick shot without my consciously knowing how I did it, and that's a tang safety. To me, the greatest "mental bandwidth" requirement is operating the safety, not the slickness of the slide.

Seriously, though, if you don't want to have to worry about operating the slide, they make these shotguns now that don't require pumping. Lots of them. Even Beretta, arguably the gold standard gas action (not the only one that works, but the one to which others are compared), has gotten into the HD shotgun game. Of course, another gold standard auto maker, Benelli, been in it for a while. They just aren't as cheap as a Mossberg 500.

I've got an 870P, hand honed action with thousands of rounds through it and I still find I can't shoot it as quickly as easily as some of the other pumps I've tried. It's smooth but not particularily positive, there's just a bit of extra effort required there that's not needed with some of the others.

I have no problem with trigger guard safeties, a tang safety would probably just confuse me at this point. I would like a semiauto but I'm trying to figure if another pump might prove satisfactory before I go and spend at least twice the money on a good semi.

[ArmedBear]

If other pumps work better for YOU, then figure out what they were, and buy one of those.

It matters none what works for me, or anyone else.

Remember: the 870 was designed to be CHEAP, not great. It happens to be reliable, and it can be made relatively smooth. However, previous Remingtons like the 31, and guns like the Winchester Model 12 and the Ithaca 37 were all a lot nicer internally and feel better to operate. Postwar Americans wanted their stuff cheap, though, and Remington was smart enough to oblige with the 870, in 1950. So it should shock nobody that the 870 isn't the best pump shotgun around. It never was. What it was, was almost as good for half the price.

By the time people started appreciating guns like the Model 12 again, it was too late -- pump guns had become the cheap end of the market, and shotgun aficionados were buying other types when they had money to spend. The new Ithaca may be shifting that a bit now, after many decades, but I have no clue what volume they sell.

[MCgunner]

Well, why buy a high end pump when it costs as much as an 1100 or SX3? That's MY thinkin' on pumps, anyway. To me, pumps are replaceable tools for rough conditions, I'll get an auto if I wanna spend more bux, then I don't have to worry about how smooth it is to pump. Even my cheap Winchester 1400 pumps smoother than any Ithaca. :D

There are good autos under a grand and they're making inroads even in waterfowl hunting. They have advantages in recoil control with high brass "magnum" loads, 3.5" stuff. If I get another waterfowler in the future, it'll be an auto, likely a camo 935 Mossberg as I like the controls. I used to think pump when I thought hunting shotgun, but not so much anymore. They are and probably forever will be popular as the low end price point hunting shotguns that they are.

None of this applies to tacticool ninja guns. I am a hunter and tend to be biased that direction.

[ArmedBear]

Well, why buy a high end pump when it costs as much as an 1100 or SX3? That's MY thinkin' on pumps, anyway. To me, pumps are replaceable tools for rough conditions, I'll get an auto if I wanna spend more bux, then I don't have to worry about how smooth it is to pump.

That's most people's thinking. It's certainly mine (except for the 1100 -- fill in a good semiauto and I'm right there with you).

As much as I appreciate one of the fancy engraved Ithacas or a classic Model 12 in good condition, I have never bought one. I have no plans to buy one, either. I can think, "Oh, that's really NEAT!" without being tempted to reach for my billfold.:)

Also, the Mossberg semiautos have moved towards replaceable tool prices, with the 935 priced about 200 bucks over the 835, MSRP, and the 930 only about 120 bucks over the 500. Probably less of a difference, retail.

[Dave McCracken]

Slickest?

A couple candidates.

Most model 12s.

Any 37.

And Frankenstein....

[jlv08]

As Dave wisely stated, the Model 12 is my vote. I have to also state that a well "seasoned" model 870 can be pretty slick.

I had the opportunity to handle a model 31 Remington and that bad boy was slicker than owl hooky. It had little to no bluing left and looked like it had seen a good deal of use.

That gun was all machined parts and hearkens back to an era of gun making we may never see again.:(

[ArmedBear]

He said "currently produced." The Model 12, and the Model 31 are obvious choices, but they aren't being made.

Handle a Model 31, and you'll be pissed off at Remington for the rest of the week, for ever conceiving the 870.:)

That said, does anyone know what kind of volume Ithaca is doing? I have a number of shotguns that cost a bit more than my 870 Express did, but they have one thing in common: none of them are pump guns. I wonder what the market really is for a truly GREAT pump shotgun, any more.

[SwampWolf]

Handle a Model 31, and you'll be pissed off at Remington for the rest of the week, for ever conceiving the 870.

So very true.

[John Peddie]

AB

If the new "Phoenix" O / U is a success, maybe that will stabilize and help the company. A chance for people to put their money where there mouths are, and buy a great 100% American made gun.

Will they do it?

Meanwhile, even with success in sub-gauges (16 & 28) it's a tough row for them to hoe with just the 37-even with all the Deerslayers I hope they sell.

[rick2gun]

Try finding a place that will let handle a Remington 887. Bought one in August last year and find it quite smooth and positive. Out of the door at under 400.00 (mine was 360.00), I think it is a great gun.

[reckless carolinian]

I'd like to echo the sentiments of Dave and John. Ithaca 37. None smoother, slicker or faster. Don't know about the new ones, but the oldies are just wicked.

[chevyforlife21]

"It just doesn't feel as good to pump it.":neener: thanks for that one armed bear haha. my favorite oldie is a ithaca 37. i dont know about current maybe a new 37

[reckless carolinian]

Not to stray too awful far off topic, but does anyone have any experience with new 37s? Curiosity forces the question.

[tactikel]

I have a Rem mod. 17 (basically an Ithaca 37) that is so smooth, that if it is cocked and pointed straight up-if you press the release button the slide will fall all the way back. Try that with any other pump and see if it will do that. John Browning really hit a home run with the 17/37 design.

[chevyforlife21]

the benelli nova comes half way back when you do that, the 37 goes at least half

[ArmedBear]

A chance for people to put their money where there mouths are, and buy a great 100% American made gun.

Will they do it?


I haven't handled one, so I can't say. Most O/U buyers aren't rich, so we're picky about what we do spend money on. To issue a challenge to Americans to pay a good deal of money for something yet unreleased, is downright silly, though.

It takes a lot to make a "great" O/U that's worth the price. Ithaca's trap singles (not made since 1948) are really the only American Trap guns I've ever tried that I really, really liked. There's definitely potential there.

How you can call any gun "great" before it comes out is beyond me, however. The "great" over/unders out there have been proving themselves for decades. It takes more than a product announcement to achieve greatness. Honestly, I think Ithaca knows this.

Here's my advice to Ithaca, though: hit the market hard, and NOT just with a 12 Gauge at first. Even Beretta is doing that with the SV-10. The world needs more 12 Gauge field guns like it needs the swine flu.

[batmann]

With all do respect to the 870's, 1200's, Ithaca et all, it still comes down to a Browning BPS for me. Smooth, strong and durable in the extreme. Down side, it's heavier than most, but that happens when you use forged steel and not plastic. This is not meant to flame other brands and this is only my opinion.

[ArmedBear]

that happens when you use forged steel and not plastic

Uh, that's what happens when you let Browning build a shotgun:D

Where'd you get the idea that Ithacas have plastic in them?

[reckless carolinian]

Hold the phone there,batmann. The Ithaca m37 is what the BPS wants to be when it grows up. No offence to Browning. I don't know that one mortal could straight up wear out a 37 in one lifetime. New production, I can't speak of. AB is right. Where did you get the idea that Ithacas contain plastic?

[batmann]

Sorry, I wasn't thinking of Ithaca in that statement. It seems most are using more and more plastic parts.
Are they making a new Ithaca pump? If so, it truly is a fine pump shotgun.

[ArmedBear]

They are making a new Ithaca pump.

What it's not, is cheap.:)

But it's easily the nicest pump currently being produced.

[Mr. T]

Winchester 1300 is the smoothest action out of all my pump shotguns and that includes: Remington Wingmaster and Express, and Mossberg 835 and 500. My cousin has a BPS and it's smooth, but the ergonomics of the gun just don't fit me as well to pump it like some of the other pumps...and it's considerably heavier.

[EGGMAN240]

+1 Benelli Supernova...