[josh...just josh]

I just picked up a TC Hawken that my step dad put together from a kit in the 80's. It's a great rifle but the cold blue job that he did just isn't holding up. He has blued many firearms, but he said that he just couldn't get the blue to stick to this one. I'm thinking about maybe trying to do the plumb brown coating because I figured that it might adhere better than bluing. The problem is that I have never seen a rifle that has been browned and the interweb has very few pictures of any. Does anyone have any pictures of a similar rifle that has been browned? How about some experiences browning a rifle?

[flintlock62]

I do not have pictures, but the amount of brown can be light to very dark, depending on how many times the browning solution is applied. Aquafortis is the most common. A well browned barrel will hold up because it acually is red oxide on top of the steel. When I finish browning, I heat the barrel with a heat gun and coat it with beeswax then buff it out. Do not over do it as a little beeswax goes a long way.

[ArmedBear]

I have that same rifle, same vintage, and it's browned. No pics in my hand, but I can show it to you when I get home. It looks fine that way. Looks a little less like a modern parody of an actual Hawken that way, too.:)

Look at any authentic replica of a rifle from before 1840 or so, and it will be browned.

This isn't my rifle, but this is what browning looks like:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Hawken_Rifle.jpg

[josh...just josh]

how does it adhere over a barrel that has been blued??

[flintlock62]

You need to remove the blue first by sanding with emery cloth and then brown.

[ArmedBear]

Just wipe the barrel with B/C Blue and Rust Remover first. Cold blue will wipe right off.

[mykeal]

Here's a T/C Hawken kit with a deeply browned barrel:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/TC%20Hawken%20Rifle/Kit%2050/0014.jpg
I've browned a number of barrels, and can confirm that you can pretty much dictate the final color with full control.

You must remove the blue finish before browning, and the Birchwood Casey Blue and Rust Remover will certainly do the job. You can also use Naval Jelly or just plain white vinegar.

There are two different browning processes (I've never used aquafortis, so I don't include that): hot and cold. Birchwood Casey Plum Brown is a hot process; you degrease and clean the barrel, heat it with a torch to about 260 degrees, then apply the browning solution with a cotton swab directly from the bottle, then clean off the scale that forms. You can see the results pretty much immediately, and apply additional coats as you wish. It's pretty easy to complete the job in one afternoon.

A good example of the cold process is Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Brown and Degreaser. After cleaning the barrel you apply the solution and leave the barrel in a high humidity environment for 3 hours (some people build a sweat box, others just do it in a bathroom and turn on the hot water in the shower). After the solution cures you 'card' it to remove the scale and reapply it, giving it another 3 hours to dry again. The first couple of coats will look terrible and you'll be sure you've ruined the barrel, but trust me, it'll get much, much better as you add more coats. This process can take a few days to complete.

Regardless of the process used, once you've gotten the color you want make sure you thoroughly clean the solutions off with hot water and a neutralizing solution of baking soda in water, then thoroughly dry it and apply a light wax or oil coat to polish it.

[TomADC]

You can use Naval Jelly rust remover and some green scothbrite to reove bluing, wear rubber gloves the bluing comes right off.
I used a Wonderblue kit to do my Zouave Kit. I was very happy with the results, but have never tried to brown a barrel, do like the looks though.

[BlackNet]

This is birchwood casey's plum brown.

http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/d/30924-1/IMG_8516.JPG

http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/d/30920-1/IMG_8514.JPG

Used a map torch and a paper towel.

Ed

[Loyalist Dave]

Actually one local gunsmith plugs the openings in a barrel, then uses extra strength Drano liquid to strip off the blue. Have a proper basin to catch the liquid, were proper gear when doing so, and rinse the barrel with some vinegar and water, then with water.

LD

[Macgille]

Both bluing and browning are rusting processes, but they are not compatible. You must remove bluing before browning. I always use plum brown and polish the steel before browning. the higher the polish the more beautiful the browning. I always polish the steel with #0000 steel wool after browning.

[scrat]

Both bluing and browning are rusting processes, but they are not compatible


Disagree. you can brown and blue a gun.

[scrat]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/scratm3/Picture042.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/scratm3/Picture037.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/scratm3/Picture044.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/scratm3/Picture049.jpg

[scrat]

it is a very long process. but the end results are incredible. a mixture of browning and bluing a gun. it can be done. IF you know how to do it

[1KPerDay]

I've done the heat browning process on about 4 guns. Looks great. Not that hard to do and is quicker than the other method.

Don't have a good pic but you get the idea

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/1KPerDay/Guns/deb21806.jpg

[flintlock62]

I totally agree with the Plumb Brown. It does a beter job than the cold stuff.

[Zeke/PA]

Since your rifle is kit built, you may want to draw file and polish the flats on the barrel anyway depending on what the origional builder did.
I really like the Plumb Brown and the instructions are not hard to follow.
When you have polished the barrel to your liking,insert a long dowel in the muzzle, and wipe the barrel with Acetone to remove any grease, oil, finger oils etc. using rubber gloves , mainly to keep finger/ hand oils off the surface.
The barrel must be heated slightly to enhance the browning process and a small hand held propane torch is sufficient.
I would advise removing the under-rib and browning this seperately.
With some care, a really nice result is possible.
Have fun.

[110Redmen]

I have had fabulous results with Laurel Mountain Brown (Track of the wolf). Cheap, goes on easy, and its not hard to get really good results with it. I am by no means an experienced gunsmith, and I have done 2 muskets, a Mississippi and an 1816...nice, smooth finish, and you can vary the depth with the number of applications. Just gotta do it when its humid.

[josh...just josh]

well I guess since it's the middle of the winter I'll wait until it warms up a bit (Iowa has no shortage of humidity). I really like the way that it looks. Is the wooden dowel to keep the solution out of the barrel? do you guys sand between coats?

[zimmerstutzen]

I like the look and durability of the Birchwood casey hot browning solution.

For a 28 or 30 inch barrel. I prop it across two gas burners on an old gas stove with very low flame. When water just bubbles off, the barrel is hot enough.

Buddy of mine has put his barrel in the wife's oven to heat it., or prop it across a coleman camp stove.

A blow torch works as well, just not on much more then the area you are working on and you need one hand to hold the torch. The other heating methods permit you to have both hands free.

You can cold brown nearly any steel or iron, using a corrosive solution, it just takes longer and alot more work. A little salt water with a few drops of soap wiped on the barrel to let it rust over night. clean it off the next day and scrub with fine 4 ought steel wool, (not 3 ought) and then repeat. The slow method gives more of a parkerized looking brown.

[scrat]

Do not sand between coats. You need to use steel wool. a very very very fine grade. keeping clean is what is important. also having something hold the barrel or piece is important too.

[Zeke/PA]

The wooden dowel is to help you hold the barrel when you are applying the browning solution.
Remember, you mustn't touch the barrel with your bare hands as a finger print will show up as just THAT on the finished job.

[flintlock62]

well I guess since it's the middle of the winter I'll wait until it warms up a bit (Iowa has no shortage of humidity). I really like the way that it looks. Is the wooden dowel to keep the solution out of the barrel? do you guys sand between coats?
The dowel is for both holding onto and keeping brown out of the end of the barrel. It should fit very snug. Carefully taper the end down a bit and drive it in so that it bites into the rifling but not so hard that you have a difficult time getting it back out.

[mykeal]

I liberally oil the bore and use a wood plug. Actually, I built a fixture that bolts on top of a sawhorse to hold the barrel; one end holds a wood rod turned down on the end to fit in the bore and the other end supports the breech by the hook or the tang depending on how the barrel is configured.

[josh...just josh]

so I should go over it fine steel wool between coats? or nothing at all?

[scrat]

yes. steel wool and use a tac cloth to remove anything

[mykeal]

Actually the look you want and the process you're using determines what to do between coats.

With LMF cold browning you don't necessarily want to sand or polish with steel wool. Certainly not for the first couple of coats. Simply remove the scale by rubbing vigorously with a heavy cotton cloth, like denim. Using steel wool or sandpaper will polish the surface but it also removes much of what the previous coat applied, so you end up needing more coats. Once you get a good base of oxidation you can start using the steel wool.

With Plum Brown the coat is heavier and polishing between coats has less effect on what's removed. On the other hand, if there are any imperfections in the coat, polishing will emphasize them and make them much harder to cover with additional coats. This emphasizes the requirement to be sure the surface is clean and free of oils and grease before you start if you're going to use Plum Brown; LMF is not so sensitive - in fact, they claim the browning solution itself is all the degreaser you need.

The effects of polishing can be both good and bad depending on the look you want. As you can see with Scrat's revolver, you can get a really nice, deep dark color and smooth, shiny surface by polishing with steel wool; it's a very attractive look. However, if you want an antique finish it's best to just remove the scale between coats and not polish. The surface is rougher but gives an old, weathered appearance that many find just as attractive.

[scrat]

:) i like mine. wow that took a long time to get that finish. just the way i wanted though

[110Redmen]

Use 0000 steel wool, just to remove the scale that builds up. You will notice once you get a few coats on, if you were to remove the scale, and come back a few hours later, the scale continues to form. Added coats will vary the color to the shade you want. Once you get the shade you want, and have removed the scale, use baking soda and water to neutralize the rusting process....then coat with oil. Be prepared to keep the barrel or other hardware oiled well until the process subsides.