Is there any cartridge that can NOT cause a Kb


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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
January 19, 2010, 12:32 PM
in a gun MADE for it, no matter how much superfast powder you stuff into it with a compressed load and heaviest-for-caliber bullets?

Maybe .22lr or .25 acp?

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rcmodel
January 19, 2010, 12:44 PM
.22LR & .25 ACP would be pretty unlikely cantidates.

The former has very weak brass, and the later has very weak brass & guns.

The weakest link in the chain in any gun is the brass case.
That's all that stands between a safe pressure and an unsafe pressure.

When you throw in the "no matter how much superfast powder you stuff into it with a compressed load and heaviest-for-caliber bullets"?
I can't think of a single one you could not expect to blow up.

It might be possible in a stong single-shot action with no extractor cut, which would not be so dependent on the brass containing the pressure, but that is not going to be a very user friendly gun.

rc

RandyP
January 19, 2010, 12:56 PM
Only one with 100% certainty that I can think of is:

""Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and a thing which tells time".

But I agree it would take some doing to manufacture a .22LR with 'kaboomability".

rcmodel
January 19, 2010, 01:04 PM
'kaboomability"?
I guess if you mean to totally destroy a gun, the .22RF is not likely to do that.

But you will get blown cases, escaping gas, and brass frags at slightly more then standard factory .22RF pressure.
They are skating on pretty thin ice already.

rc

Afy
January 19, 2010, 03:08 PM
I guess a 6mm BR, 6 PPC in a decent BR grade rifle would be difficult to KB as well, unless of course you filled the case with a fast pistol powder or something.

rcmodel
January 19, 2010, 03:15 PM
But that was one of the rules.
"no matter how much superfast powder you stuff into it with a compressed load and heaviest-for-caliber bullets"

I'm thinking a 6mm BR with a compressed charge of Bullseye and a 105 grain bullet would blow up any rifle ever made.

rc

Owen
January 19, 2010, 03:21 PM
I've had quite a few .22LR case ruptures. On a 10/22 they usually toss the extractor a little ways.

Galil5.56
January 19, 2010, 03:34 PM
To demonstrate how strong his new revolver was, Dick Casull would fill a 454 case with Bullseye (24 grains which was as much as he said he could add and still seat the bullet), seat a 255 cast bullet, and remote fire the revolver which was tied to an old tire. He estimated the pressure @ 90,000 psi, and only mentions after the test that "most of the screws had been loosened by the blast" with no mention of case rupture or any other problem.

Old Fuff
January 19, 2010, 04:29 PM
Just about any cartridge you can think of...

As long as you load it with black powder.

ants
January 19, 2010, 04:39 PM
What about blank cartridges? :neener: :p :neener:

ants
January 19, 2010, 04:41 PM
I'm calling Webster about adding Kabloomability to the next dictionary.

Is it past deadline for the 2010 printing?

rcmodel
January 19, 2010, 04:44 PM
What about blank cartridges? Nope.
I saw a guy in the Army take all the powder out of several 7.62 blanks, put it all in one, and KABoom an M-14 once.

rc

RandyP
January 19, 2010, 04:51 PM
As long as I get the royalties for my word creation! Let the big bucks roll!!!

SlamFire1
January 19, 2010, 04:58 PM
Both brass and steel have limits to their ultimate strengths.

The Arisaka held up to some horrible torture tests, the M700 has too. But anything made by man can be unmade by man.

dagger dog
January 19, 2010, 05:01 PM
Wanting to make a .22 Magnum ('cause MAGNUMS better and bigger) a dumb 14 year old kid (me) removed the bullets from 3 long rifles and proceeded to make one MAGNUM by dumping the powder from 2 into the third and replacing the bullet. That done I racked it into the chamber of my Mossberg 400 Palomino lever action carbine, and pulled the trigger. :eek:

I have to hand it to the fellow that designed that little rifle, it didn't even come out of battery the bolt remained closed, along with the lever. Once I poured the urine out of my right boot and my ears quit ringing, I opened the the action to find nothing, or so I thought until I dropped a few cartridges in the tube and found out the next round wouldn't chamber.

Well the gunsmith (my dad) took one look and could see the remaining case , it was readily removed with a cleaning rod, (which wasn't the case with his foot) and my freedom of roaming the woods with my new found 22 MAGNUM were brought to an end until the trust was re-established

Floppy_D
January 19, 2010, 05:03 PM
The idea of such a cartridge is rather self-defeating, given the variety of powder available. Let's say you wildcat a round with such little case capacity that with a heaviest for caliber round and fastest powder possible, it would still not KB. What you have created is a case that isn't very useful; you wouldn't have the needed capacity to make any velocity with slower powders. So, expect low energy. Also, dealing with really small amounts of powder raises the significance of being off by .1 or .2 grains, so the potential for spotty accuracy is there as well.

In short, there's probably a good reason it isn't done. :)

Roccobro
January 20, 2010, 10:55 AM
The .22LRAKB (Anti-Ka Boom)

Thick walled brass, with relatively little case capacity.

I don't want the royalties from this one... :neener:

Justin

Visionz45
January 20, 2010, 12:57 PM
I'm having a hard time finding a limit as to how much RL-22 my .30-06 will actually eat up. Ive almost filled my case to the brim(62.5 gr). :)

Vern Humphrey
January 20, 2010, 01:27 PM
""Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and a thing which tells time".
Red Ryders (and other air guns) are often kaboomed. People like to squirt a little oil into them, which causes dieseling, and which can damage the gun.

jcwit
January 20, 2010, 03:01 PM
What kind of pill load did the military testers use to finally blow up the Arisaka they tested after WWII. I believe they had to put a bullet obstruction in the bore to finally blow it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Roccobro
January 20, 2010, 03:35 PM
People like to squirt a little oil into them, which causes dieseling, and which can damage the gun.

So the airguns kept running after the ignition was turned off? :D


Justin

Gryffydd
January 20, 2010, 03:45 PM
I'm having a hard time finding a limit as to how much RL-22 my .30-06 will actually eat up. Ive almost filled my case to the brim(62.5 gr).
Yes, but try it with a casefull of Bullseye and you'll have a bomb on your hand, so the .30-06 certainly doesn't qualify.

ljnowell
January 20, 2010, 07:02 PM
So the airguns kept running after the ignition was turned off?


Justin

Take it for what its worth
http://airgunner.org/?p=257

fguffey
January 20, 2010, 08:04 PM
The only rifle, cartridge and chamber comes to mind is the Japanese Arisaka rifle, by definition it always start out as 'the strongest rifle in the world' I always say "to heck with the rifle I want some of those cases" after all, if the rifles does not blow up neither does the case. Even Ackley, as good as he was, could not blow one up? Given the opportunity I choose the Mauser or Enfield M1917 every time.

F. Guffey

ranger335v
January 20, 2010, 10:13 PM
"Is there any cartridge that can NOT cause a Kb"

Well, a .22 RF isn't usually considered reloadable. And a .25 ACP in a light pistol chambered for it can be blown up with the right (wrong?) propellent and bullet combo.

Roccobro
January 21, 2010, 12:15 PM
Take it for what its worth
http://airgunner.org/?p=257

Interesting theory and read. Thanks!

Justin

Ed Harris
January 21, 2010, 12:28 PM
I built a .32 ACP rifle for low noise cat sneeze.

See

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=5418&forum_id=48

Cosmoline
January 21, 2010, 12:36 PM
.22 LR can absolutely KB and cause injury if fired in a defective or rotting firearm.

But as far as handloading, I suspect you could overcharge even a .25 ACP with compressed unique.

Vern Humphrey
January 21, 2010, 12:38 PM
Take it for what its worth
Actually, what the site says is air guns can diesel, and in the past some makers recommended adding oil to enhance the effect, but with modern construction materials and lubricants they shouldn't diesel. It goes on to say that with proper lubrication, the dieseling effect is small.

But with improper (excessive) lubrication with petroleum-based lubricants, dieseling can take place, and with enough lubrication it can damage the gun -- and guns have been damaged that way in the past, which was my point.

243winxb
January 21, 2010, 03:30 PM
Is there any cartridge that can NOT cause a Kb If KABOOM means-taking the firearm out of service, the firearm has not been made yet. Ringed barrels in 22lr happens. Homemade blanks can take a gun apart.

Walkalong
January 21, 2010, 03:43 PM
Anything built by man can go wrong. Just ask Mr. Murphy.

armarsh
January 23, 2010, 12:46 PM
Ackley was able to blow up three Arisaka rifles, but he had to work at it. This is detailed in volume II of his handbook.

He used 60 grains of 3031 AND 10 grains of 2400. "Barrel blown off just ahead of receiver".

Bad as this was, one of the Arisaka rifles survived this load. Ackley then loaded 60 grains of 2400 and was able to shear the bolt lugs off this rifle too.

He did not have the means of measuring the pressure.

ljnowell
January 23, 2010, 03:39 PM
Actually, what the site says is air guns can diesel, and in the past some makers recommended adding oil to enhance the effect, but with modern construction materials and lubricants they shouldn't diesel. It goes on to say that with proper lubrication, the dieseling effect is small.

But with improper (excessive) lubrication with petroleum-based lubricants, dieseling can take place, and with enough lubrication it can damage the gun -- and guns have been damaged that way in the past, which was my point.

Thats why I said:
Take it for what its worth

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