True Blue Powder (Ramshot/Western Powders)


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chagasrod
January 20, 2010, 03:38 PM
Has anyone tried True Blue powders? I was at Cabela's looking for the W231 with no luck. The vendor offered me this powder and he said he's been using it.
I paid $21.99 for 1lb bottle.

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Walkalong
January 20, 2010, 04:28 PM
True Blue is a good powder. Much slower than W-231 though. Ramshot powders are good to go.

Competition is a lot like WST. Good stuff for target loads in .45 ACP.

Silhouette is the old Winchester W.A.P. powder, just relabled.

HP-38 is the same powder as W-231, so if you can find it, you have found W-231 with another name.

jfh
January 20, 2010, 05:07 PM
rod, I'll second Walkalong's observations--we've both used True Blue. As he says, it is a lot slower--but it seems to be a wonder powder for 38 Special.

Use google here, in this forum, to find more discussions about it.

Jim H.

atblis
January 20, 2010, 10:29 PM
You can get some good velocity out of 9mm with that powder.

Jumping Frog
January 20, 2010, 11:32 PM
See if they have Ramshot Zip instead. Ramshot Zip and W231 are very close to the same speed:
18. Winchester WST
19. Hodgdon HP38
20. Winchester 452AA
21. Scot 453
22. Winchester 231
23. Ramshot Zip
24. IMR 700X
25. Alliant Green Dot
26. Hodgdon Int. Clays

True Blue is much slower, as stated. Here is where it fits:
48. IMR 800X
49. Accurate No. 7
50. Hodgdon Longshot
51. Scot Solo 1500
52. Ramshot True Blue
53. Vihta Vuori N350
54. Vihta Vuori 3N38
55. Hodgdon HS-7
56. Alliant Blue Dot

Here is a powder burn rate chart from Ramshot:

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/burnrate.php

chagasrod
January 22, 2010, 01:35 AM
Thanks to all of you for the info.

JLCook
January 28, 2010, 11:49 PM
I am using True Blue for 45 acp and 9 mm makarov, great stuff.

paralaska
January 29, 2010, 03:09 AM
True Blue meters very well . . . so it's easy to use. I use 6.9gr to push Berry's plated 185gr HBRN bullets and 7.4gr for 230gr FMJ RN. Both loads are very accurate.

chagasrod
January 29, 2010, 03:11 AM
Thanks guys! I'm glad i found this forum.

bullseye308
January 29, 2010, 11:56 PM
HP-38 is the same powder as W-231, so if you can find it, you have found W-231 with another name.

I hear this time and again and know it to be true, but can someone explain why they are listed like this on the chart???
18. Winchester WST
19. Hodgdon HP38
20. Winchester 452AA
21. Scot 453
22. Winchester 231
23. Ramshot Zip
24. IMR 700X
25. Alliant Green Dot
26. Hodgdon Int. Clays

Just thought it looked wrong and was a little cornfusing. :confused:

jfh
January 30, 2010, 10:14 AM
bullseye308: My guess is that the list simply hasn't been updated. And, don't forget that the list is NOT a linear sequence--e.g., the hierarchy representing equal increments. IOW, powders 19-22 may well be all equally fast....

Jim H.

dwhite
January 30, 2010, 10:35 AM
or it could be lot to lot variation between the 231 and HP-38 at the time of testing.

All the Best,
D. White

jfh
January 30, 2010, 10:51 AM
dwhite: I agree--but does anyone know just how precise the testing is, and what the specifications for precision are?--in layman's language, I would like to believe that the 'results' of the tests are better than something like "plus-or-minus five percent," but I wonder....

Add to that the repeatability factors of such testing, and it behooves all of us to remember that probability analysis is really what "the pressure numbers" are in our hobby. Taken to the extreme edge, that simply means that every shot is a new crapshoot, so to speak, and new roll of the dice.

I haven't updated my charts' downloads for the past year or so--but consider the location of True Blue (and AA#5, IIRC) on the RamShot Chart vis-a-vis the Hodgdon chart. (Not to mention the older charts no longer updated, like from Winchester.) It was when I started chasing these differences down that I began to understand that powder pressure charts were merely sequential lists, and do not represent a linear (or logarithmic, or whatever) progression.

Jim H.

Walkalong
January 30, 2010, 12:00 PM
All good points, but who cares if they are a couple of spots apart on one chart. Charts vary, and it is a "closed bomb" test, not a test in any caliber.

Besides, powders in general behave differently in different applications. In .45 Colt powder ABC might be quicker than XWZ, but in .38 Spl XYZ might be quicker than ABC.

I have several Burn Rate Charts, and AA #2 varies from #6 on one to #17 on another, going lower than several powders on the first chart.

Many charts out there under different names/sources are copies and are identical.

tkcomer
January 30, 2010, 12:10 PM
I use it in 38/357, 44 mag and 9mm. I love the way it meters out of a powder measure.

jfh
January 30, 2010, 12:27 PM
I do have trouble with these fine ball powders leaking from my (various) Lee Autodisk measures.

Most of these measures have been updated / repaired, etc. to work properly--the problem is an inherent problem with powder getting into the slot for the actuating lever, and dribbling out there. The leak does NOT impact charge weight accuracy, as numerous checks against the scale demonstrate.

Who uses a different measure on the Lee PTED, and / or what do you recommend. (Note: NOT interested in off-die/press measuring and charging for these (handgun) calibres...

Jim H.

Walkalong
January 30, 2010, 12:51 PM
No problems with my Redding 10X. Meters great, doesn't leak with any powder. Pricey. I am glad I bought it a few years ago when it was much cheaper. It was still a big decision though. Well worth it though.

Don't know if it would work on your set up, cause I can't remember which one you have. :o

jfh
January 30, 2010, 12:57 PM
The press I'm using now is a Lee turret--the original one, updated to 4-die, etc. I'll probably get a Classic (Cast?) Turret in the future...but it's basically for a Lee turret setup; the issues for the two versions would be the same.

gotta go look up a Redding 10x....

Jim H.

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