Driving through NJ, Pa, WV, and Ohio


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jn1965
January 22, 2010, 07:01 AM
I will be going through NJ,Pa,WV and staying in Ohio in a few weeks. I would like to know what the laws are regarding traveling with a SD shotgun and a 10/22 would be. I know not to take my pistol out of Va and Pa already :fire:
Are non-residents allowed to have long guns in NJ and Ohio? NJ is the one that bothers me the most...


Thanks!


Joe

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qwert65
January 22, 2010, 07:06 AM
keep it locked unloaded in your trunk in NJ

Mousegun
January 22, 2010, 09:02 AM
Take the shortest route through N.J. and try to avoid any stops if possible. Obey the traffic laws and say "Good-By" as you cross the border out of there.

Deanimator
January 22, 2010, 09:41 AM
Are non-residents allowed to have long guns in NJ and Ohio?
Do you have a VA CCW credential of some kind? I don't recall if they're valid in Ohio.

If you don't have a recognized CCW credential:

1. There's no licensing or registration here. You can possess whatever legal firearm suits you.

2. Without an Ohio CHL, you cannot CARRY a concealed firearm or be in a vehicle with your loaded firearm OR loaded magazines/speed loaders. If going to a range for example, you would be safe having your firearm(s) and ammunition separate from each other (and magazines unloaded) in the trunk of your car. You can go anywhere you want that way, or just drive in circles til you run out of gas. This isn't NJ, or even PA for that matter.

3. You can open carry a handgun if you like.

jn1965
January 22, 2010, 09:47 AM
Thanks guys!

Yeah I figured in NJ if they were locked in the trunk (long guns only) and unloaded I might get away with it.

I am leaving the pistol in Va...

Ohio is sounding more and more like a place to move to :D

Sam1911
January 22, 2010, 09:59 AM
Ohio? Naaah. PA makes Ohio's laws look like NJ!

Car carry in PA is legal with ANY CCW credential from any state. Open carry is legal. No magazine capacity restrictions. Concealed carry is legal in a LOT more places in PA.

The only kind of draconian gun law I can think of here in PA is that face-to-face transfers of handguns aren't legal -- gotta be through an FFL. I can live with that one, I guess, until we can get it changed. :D

-Sam

HGUNHNTR
January 22, 2010, 10:23 AM
NJ could be very dicey, I would never go through the state with firearms, even locked in the trunk. If you are a resident with a hunting license you may go to and from where you are hunting with guns locked up in separate containers than ammo in the trunk. You can not stop for a gallon of milk, or stray from the shortest route home.

YOU ARE TAKING A HUGE RISK BY GOING THROUGH NJ! Please take this seriously

Make sure you don't have any hollowpoint ammo on you, including dimpled .22lr, or shotgun slugs. Even an inert hollow point round as a keychain will get you a felony charge in NJ. You will go to jail, trust me.

If you absolutely MUST go through NJ, say a prayer, obey every law, and get out as fast as you can.

I would avoid NJ as a nonresident with firearms at all costs. Here is a copy of the Transportation laws, just don't expect it to protect you.



All firearms transported through the State of New Jersey:
The following guidelines are provided in order to assist law enforcement officers in applying New Jersey's firearms laws to persons who are transporting firearms through the State of New Jersey.

New Jersey laws governing firearms permits, purchaser identification cards, registration and licenses do not apply to a person who is transporting the firearm through this State if that person is transporting the firearm in a manner permitted by federal law, 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.

This federal law permitting interstate transportation of a firearm applies only if all of the following requirements are met:

A.
The person's possession of the firearm was lawful in the state in which the journey began;

B.
The person's possession of the firearm will be lawful in the state in which the journey will end;

C.
The person is transporting the firearm for lawful purpose

D.
The firearm is unloaded

E.
The firearm is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle

F.
The ammunition is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle

G.
If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console;

H.
The person is not


1.
a convicted felon

2.
a fugitive from justice an addict or unlawful user of drugs, or

3.
an illegal alien


I
The person has not


1.
been adjudicated to be a mental defective

2.
been committed to a mental institution

3.
been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces, or

4.

renounced his United States Citizenship




A person who is transporting a firearm though the State of New Jersey in the manner permitted by person's possession 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, see Section II above, need not give notice.

Procedures for Investigation of Conduct Involving the Possession or Transportation of Firearms

A.
An officer who reasonably suspects that a person is transporting a firearm in violation of New Jersey law should make reasonable inquiries in order to confirm or dispel that suspicion.

B.
In a case where circumstances reasonably indicate that the person's possession and transportation of the firearms my be permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, the officer should make reasonable inquiries in order to determine whether the person's possession is permitted by that federal law.

C.
If reasonable inquiries lead an officer to conclude that the person's possession is lawful under either New Jersey law or 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, as described above in Section II, the officer should promptly allow the person to proceed.

D.
Whenever an officer has probable cause to believe that a person's possession of a firearm is in violation of New Jersey law and not permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, as described above in Section II, then the officer should make an arrest.




I lived in NJ for about 5 years and have first hand experience with the bassackwards laws in NJ. Even if you are 100% legal there is still a better than 50% chance you will be arrested and charged with a crime that could ruin your life.

Nicky Santoro
January 22, 2010, 11:19 AM
OP,
Qwert and mousegun gave you accurate information. Keep them in the trunk, unloaded with any mags unloaded. Ammo in a separate container or box.
While NJ may be the poster child for ridiculous legislation, it just isn't that bad. Throw a blanket over the guns and don't make any unnecessary stops. As long as you don't drive through at 100 mph with an open beer in your lap the cops aren't even going to notice that you're alive. Contrary to what some posters seem to believe, Jersey cops are not psychic, don't have "gundar", and there is no satellite overhead that can see into the trunk.

HGUNHNTR
January 22, 2010, 11:56 AM
^ I wonder how much you beleive NJ is not THAT BAD given your stated location :) Throwing a blanket over the guns is NOT LEGAL, they must be LOCKED in a SECURE container. I copy and pasted this from the NJ state police website.

No Jersey cops are not psychic, but the risk you are taking is real and the consequnces are lifelong.

Not taking this risk seriously is ignorant. And it is THAT BAD. I have been falsely arrested in NJ and it nearly cost me my right to own firearms, vote, travel outside of the US, and find gainful enployment. Those are real and serious consequences, and just being lawful does not guarantee you will not be charged with a crime and convicted. The NJ firearms law is incredibly complicated and convoluted. Officers are just as likely to charge you with a crime and let the courts sort it out. I am speaking from first hand experience, not a friend of a friend had this happen.

A DWI checkpoint, fender bender, burglary, etc. could cause you to come under the scrutiny of an officer that would just as soon write out a ticket as decipher the law.

I am taking the time to post this because of the 3 months of Hell I went through at the hands of the NJ justice system (that did not have gundar). Don't let it happen to you.

I'm3rd
January 22, 2010, 01:23 PM
The Federal law that allows transporting an unloaded gun in a car trunk (or a locked container if you don't have a trunk) through ANY state as long as the gun is legal in the owner's state and the state of his/her destination should protect you while driving THROUGH NJ, but NOT if NJ is your destination. But even if you are arrested while legally driving THROUGH NJ in accordance with the Federal law and eventually win in court, you would still lose by way of major-league legal expenses and time spent in jail. Personally, I wouldn't bring a gun into NJ or MA under any circumstances, the only solution for states like those is to saw them off the US and let them float out to sea.

stickhauler
January 22, 2010, 07:05 PM
Ohio? Naaah. PA makes Ohio's laws look like NJ!

Car carry in PA is legal with ANY CCW credential from any state. Open carry is legal. No magazine capacity restrictions. Concealed carry is legal in a LOT more places in PA.

The only kind of draconian gun law I can think of here in PA is that face-to-face transfers of handguns aren't legal -- gotta be through an FFL. I can live with that one, I guess, until we can get it changed.


Pennsylvania is better than Ohio in your opinion? We have open carry, no magazine restrictions unless you live in Columbus or Cleveland. You may be able to carry in more places than we do, but there is no restriction on face-to-face transfers in Ohio. Your carry license allows you to carry in 25 states, mine allows carry in 25.

The last I heard, every little one horse town and city in your state was trying to pass firearm restrictions, in spite of state preemption laws in your constitution, the only places in Ohio willing to do such a stupid thing is the above mentioned gun hating cities in Ohio.

Lots of luck getting that law changed considering the influence larger cities like Philly & Pittsburgh have on your legislature. Seems to me that one law makes your state a helluva lot closer to Jersey's laws than mine is. But then again, I didn't decide to point out your state's problems until you slammed mine.

Sam1911
January 22, 2010, 07:30 PM
Awww, stick, I wasn't "slamming" your state! I just don't care for the laws:

Places off-limits for carry in OH:
• Police stations
• Sheriffs’ offices
• Highway Patrol posts. Premises controlled by the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation.
• Correctional institutions or other detention facilities
• Airport terminals or commercial airplanes.
• Institutions for the care of mentally ill persons.
• Courthouses or buildings in which a courtroom is located.
• Universities, unless locked in a motor vehicle or in the process of being locked in a motor vehicle.
• Places of worship, unless the place of worship permits otherwise.
• Child day-care centers.
• Licensed D-Liquor Permit premises in which any person is consuming liquor. Concealed firearms are banned in premises for which a D permit has been issued or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.
• Government facilities that are not used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or a building or structure in which a courtroom is located.
• School safety zones. A “school safety zone” includes a school, school building, school premises, school activity, and school bus. For purposes of this statute, a school includes everything up to the property boundary. The law generally forbids the carrying of a handgun in a school safety zone unless all of the following apply:
· You do not enter a school building, premises or activity; and
· You have a concealed carry license or temporary emergency license; and· You are not otherwise in one of the forbidden places listed above and detailed in R.C. 2923.126 (B); or
· You are a driver or passenger in a motor vehicle immediately in the process of picking up or dropping off a child, and you are not otherwise in violation of the laws governing the transportation of firearms in motor vehicles.

Places off-limits for carry in PA:
· Court Houses
· Elementary and Secondary Education Schools

Nice, short list. Even those are pointless, but at least you can go to church, a bar, a police station, the airport, and government buildings without committing any felonies. Ironically, when I was getting fingerprinted for my Utah permit (mostly so I could carry in your state, and DE), I wore my 1911 right into the police station. Why? I feel that unloading/clearing and reloading guns multiple times throughout the day presents a higher than necessary safety risk, compared to holstering the weapon and leaving it there. Besides, who wants to leave a gun in the car in some parking lot? Steal my stereo? That sucks. Steal my stereo and gun? That REALLY sucks.

every little one horse town and city in your state was trying to pass firearm restrictions That's news to me, and I live here! Preemption is the same for both states. Oh sure, every once in a while Philly gets a burr up its bum about something, but the state supreme court always eats them for lunch. It doesn't much matter what some town of city says about it, the state laws prevail.

By magazine restrictions, I was referring to that section of OH law that says, “Automatic firearm” also means any semi-automatic firearm designed or specially adapted to fire more than thirty-one cartridges without reloading -- meaning that if you have a belt-fed semi-auto or a 40-rd mag for an AR or AK, or a Beta-C mag, or the AK Drums, etc. you're in a tight spot. I don't find those things terribly useful, but they can be fun some times. Hate to be violating the state's machine gun laws just because of magazine capacity.

Like I said, I'm not picking on your state, the laws just aren't as favorable. That was really the point I was making -- in response to jn1965's comments, not to anything you had said -- that if he's moving for gun reasons, OH maybe isn't the best choice.

Peace, dude!

-Sam

wishin
January 22, 2010, 08:32 PM
Make sure you don't have any hollowpoint ammo on you, including dimpled .22lr, or shotgun slugs. Even an inert hollow point round as a keychain will get you a felony charge in NJ. You will go to jail, trust me.

Can someone please enlighten me on HP ammo law in NJ. It seems like everytime the subject comes up, there's differing opinion and advice.

Sam1911
January 22, 2010, 08:54 PM
From NRA-ILA:

It is unlawful to knowingly possess “any hollow nose, dum-dum, or body armor penetrating bullet.” A person may keep such ammunition at his dwelling, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him, or carry such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land. Military and law enforcement personnel and retail dealers may possess restricted ammunition, provided records are kept of purchasers. A federally licensed collector may possess no more than three examples of each distinctive variation of restricted ammunition.

-Sam

wishin
January 22, 2010, 10:15 PM
Thanks sam1911. It's no wonder there's conflicting opinion; "It's unlawful to knowingly possess..... A person may keep..............??????? Talk about contradiction!

HGUNHNTR
January 22, 2010, 10:23 PM
Thats right, you can have HP in your house, just do leave with it.

Like I said earlier, it is the bullet that is illegal, not the cartridge. I knew of a gentleman that got into deep doo doo when it was discovered that he had an inert pistol round with a "real" HP bullet in it. Crazy, a dimpled peice of lead can get you 10yrs in NJ.

Sunray
January 22, 2010, 10:34 PM
"...NoVa..." Northern Virginia, correct? Seems to me going anywhere near NJ or PA is going in the wrong direction if you're heading for Ohio.

Deanimator
January 22, 2010, 10:43 PM
We have open carry, no magazine restrictions unless you live in Columbus or Cleveland.
Incorrect on two counts:

1. There is a STATEWIDE 30 round limit, although it's almost never enforced.
2. There is statewide preemption. Any gun law below the state level is null and void. Cleveland is going to get slapped down on preemption, just as they've been slapped down on everything else. Even the Cleveland FOP knows they're blowing smoke and advised its members not to enforce any imaginary Cleveland gun laws, lest they be sued and lose their behinds.

semperfi63
January 23, 2010, 01:00 AM
...or body armor penetrating bullet.

So Rifle ammunition is illegal in NJ?

Straight Shooter
January 23, 2010, 01:31 AM
Car carry in PA is legal with ANY CCW credential from any state. Open carry is legal. No magazine capacity restrictions. Concealed carry is legal in a LOT more places in PA.

Yea, PA is pretty good.

For clarification, OC in Philly requires a LTCF. No license required anywhere else in PA.

HGUNHNTR
January 23, 2010, 01:36 AM
Only body armor penetrating handgun rounds are illegal in NJ. Don't even open the T/C contender can of worms.

wishin
January 23, 2010, 07:17 AM
Thats right, you can have HP in your house, just do (don't)leave with it.



Stupid of me. I thought "keep" and "possess" implied the same thing! Obviously, not in NJ law. You can't possess it legally, but you can keep it at home! How about instead, "It is unlawful to knowingly possess.......... on one's person. or outside of one's home.

ultradoc
January 23, 2010, 07:41 AM
My mom's sister [my aunt] lives in N.J. My mom is in Ohio. My aunt asked my mom to bring her a B.B. gun [for squirel controll] next time she comes to visit which is about once a year. I guess my aunt doesn't know where to buy a B.B. gun. When I visited my aunt last year I asked about gun stores in the area. She said that N.J. doesn't have any. Not sure if that's true or not. If it is true it's a sad thing. But if I were you coming to Ohio I would keep everything in the trunk,unloaded [of course] and maybe even disasembled. Good luck.

xXxplosive
January 23, 2010, 09:45 AM
Geeezzz..............I'm born, raised and live in this mixed up, confused place called New Jersey and I been reading some real confusing threads here.

For one, yes you can own hollow points in NJ. You can use them while hunting certain game for instance, Woodchuck / varmint Hunting.....Slugs for Deer (Remington 1oz.), you can even take hollow point ammo to the range and shoot it if you are a registered Shooting Range Member of a Registered Shooting range....

True, your fire arms must be unloaded and secured in a closed / Fastened container, Box, Shooting bag, Rifle Case and either in the trunk of the car or in a vehicle that has no separate compartment other than the Glove Compartment.
Ammo must also be kept separate in a fastened container seperate from all firearms.........

Only vehicle stops permitted are for emergency, Gas or restroom use. Otherwise it's to the range, gunsmith, gunshop or hunting field and home........

I've been shooting in NJ for over 40 yrs....and have never had a problem.

jn1965
January 23, 2010, 10:11 AM
Unfortunately I have to pick up a friend in NJ, another one in Pa and THEN head to Ohio. I am now thinking of just leaving everything in Va. I did want to take the shottie as last year when going through WV my buddy was almost made into today's lunch by a bunch of deer jacking hillbillies. They chased him for miles after he spoiled their taking a deer by hitting it on the highway. He was driving and swerved to miss a deer and almost had a head on with a pickup running without lights that was going to hit the deer. They did a "Dukes of Hazzard" turn on the highway and lit out after him. Chased him at speeds approaching 110 for miles as I said. If that happens again and they catch us I want to have something to spoil their day!

ClayInTX
January 23, 2010, 05:48 PM
ultradoc,

Buying a gun for another person, except as a gift and even that gets hazy, is considered a “straw purchase” and is illegal. If BB guns are illegal in New Jersey then I can see a real problem there.

Are straw purchases legal in Ohio and New Jersey?

NavyLCDR
January 23, 2010, 05:56 PM
ClayInTx,

Buying a BB gun on behalf of another person is not a straw purchase. A straw purchase occurs when one person buys a FIREARM from a LICENSED DEALER on behalf of another person. 1. BB guns are not considered firearms in federal law (there is no "fire" associated with a BB gun) and 2. you don't buy BB guns from FFL's. Well, I suppose you could buy a BB gun from an FFL, but there would be no 4473 form on it to make a false statement on.

In addition, there is no grey area regarding purchasing a firearms as a gift. It is perfectly, absolutely legal and not grey at all. The instructions on the form 4473 even state that it is legal to purchase a firearm for the purpose of giving it as a gift.

HGUNHNTR
January 23, 2010, 10:00 PM
^ BB guns ARE considered firearms in NJ, and require a NJFID Card, but not a background check.

NavyLCDR
January 23, 2010, 11:06 PM
OK. So in New Jersey:

(a) No person, other than a licensed or registered retail or wholesale dealer, shall receive, purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle, shotgun or antique cannon, other than an antique rifle or shotgun, unless that person possesses and exhibits a valid firearms purchaser identification card. No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of a rifle, shotgun or antique cannon to a person other than a licensed or registered retail or wholesale dealer unless the buyer or receiver possesses and exhibits a valid firearms purchaser identification card. No person shall sell or acquire a sawed-off shotgun.

The NJFID is only required to purchase or acquire a rifle.... it is not required to possess that rifle. If I moved to New Jersey, with my rifle/BB Gun, I would not be required to get the NJFID. SO... what is to keep a New Jersey resident from buying a BB gun at Toys R Us in another state and then bringing it back to New Jersey? The NJFID card requirement would not apply to them when not in the state of New Jersey. Federal law regarding the interstate purchase of rifles (18 USC 922 b 3) would not apply because the Federal government does not consider a BB gun to be a firearm.

What about the Nerf series of guns? Do those require the NFJID card to acquire in New Jersey as well?

garand_man
January 24, 2010, 12:06 AM
Your right about Ohio. I live in Ohio too. The state mag capacity is not enforced. Some cities do have capacity laws. If the capacity laws are enforced, I sure have seen a lot of Calicos (which hold either 50 or 100 rounds), 75 round AK mags, and 40 round SKS mags for sale in Ohio, like at every gun show I go to in Ohio. I'm glad I don't have to register my guns or required to have a firearms ID living in Ohio.

HGUNHNTR
January 24, 2010, 09:10 PM
NavyLT, people did that all of the time around Christmas when they came into the store to buy a Red Ryder for their child. Most just drove across the river and got one at Walmart.

Beleive it or not it is also neccesary to obtain a permit to purchase a handgun to purchase an air pistol in NJ. For most folks thats a 3 month wait per permit. Crazy.

NavyLCDR
January 24, 2010, 09:38 PM
That's good, HGUNHNTR. It certainly didn't appear to be illegal.

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