9mm - 125gr LRN in the CZ


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Quoheleth
January 22, 2010, 07:50 PM
I had reloaded 100 rounds of 9mm Missouri Bullet Smallball! with 3.8 gr Universal for use in my Smith M&P. OAL was 1.20, just below the manual recommended OAL. I had used this before and it was a good load.

I sold the M&P and bought a CZ85. This 1.20" round will not chamber - it's too long. I've corresponded with Brad and he's said some customers have had to go down to 1.065" to get the round to seat properly. Using my barrel as my case gauge, I'm down to 1.07.

My question is re. powder charge. I wanted to use Universal; per Hodgdon's website (which actually lists OAL of 1.125) the charge would be 3.8gr, but since I'm seating almost .02" am I asking for trouble?

My Alliant Pistol & Revolver manual shows charge weights for a 120gr bullet seated deep to 1.065. Universal is not a recommended powder. Titegroup, AA#5, Titegroup, Bullseye and Unique are all listed and these are also in my cabinet. Would I be better off using one of these powders, per the recommended charge, than using Universal?

Thanks,
Q

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Quoheleth
January 22, 2010, 10:04 PM
Well, I went with AA#5. We'll see what it does...

Q

rfwobbly
January 22, 2010, 10:17 PM
I had reloaded 100 rounds of 9mm Missouri Bullet Smallball! with 3.8 gr Universal for use in my Smith M&P. OAL was 1.20, just below the manual recommended OAL. I had used this before and it was a good load.

1) You must have a typo or mis-read.... the SAAMI max is 1.169" which is way under 1.200". Did you mean 1.020" ??

2) Yes, the CZ's have very short leades and bullets that have a shoulder at .356 dia which protrudes far in front of the case usually have issues at OALs that fit fine in other guns. You'll want to build a test round (no powder, no primer) and seat it progressively deeper in .005 to .010" increments until the round will spin freely in the naked barrel. Then maybe subtract another .005 to .010" from that to get YOUR OAL for that bullet in that barrel. You want to make sure the bullet is never resting on the rifling.

If that is significantly shorter than your published load, then start with a reduced load, say 0.2gr below the minimum, and work up from there. Keep full notes on your work and progress.

putteral
January 23, 2010, 11:06 AM
5.5 grs of AA#5 is my favorite for my 124 Lead TC. I seat mine also at 1.07.

RidgwayCO
January 23, 2010, 12:59 PM
Quoheleth, if you're wondering if you can just seat those bullets deeper in the case with a load of 3.8gr of Universal, QuickLOAD says you're OK. I'm assuming you meant you wanted to reduce your 1.120" COL to 1.070" COL.

Walkalong
January 23, 2010, 01:22 PM
I used to shoot a Valiant 125 Gr lead RN at 1.082 O.A.L. with 4.5 Grs of W-231. Shot just fine. Lots of loads out there using 1.050 to 1.080ish O.A.L.s. Just stop short of max charges when you believe your load is significantly shorter than what the data used.

3.8 Grs of Universal is definitely short of max. It also IMHO isn't a good choice for such a light load with lead in 9MM.

Faster powders would be better suited. 700X, Red Dot, N310, Bullseye, WST, W-231, AA#2.

Since you have Bullseye, I would try it. AA #5 for stouter stuff, but then you get into the range where Universal becomes useful in 9MM as well.

Quoheleth
January 25, 2010, 10:33 AM
RidgewayCO, thanks for the double-check on Quickload.

I went with 5.5 gr AA#5, per the manual. The Lyman manual has a 120gr LRN seated to 1.07", so I used the data for loading my 125gr LRN. I had hoped to get to the range today, but my son is sick so it probably isn't going to happen.

And, yes, there was a typo in my OP. Sorry about that...

Q

Marlin 45 carbine
January 25, 2010, 11:15 AM
betch'a a faster powder will group tighter. re R Dot or B Eye which you already have available. cheaper too.

GimpyLeg
January 25, 2010, 01:29 PM
I've loaded ~500 of the 125gr Smallball from Missouri Bullets using 6.0gr of AA#5 with 1.110 COAL. Runs through my SR9 just fine.

Got a new shipment of 115gr from Missouri. Loaded up some test rounds with 4.2gr Unique (since it is ALL I can find local!) with a COAL of 1.110. Rain delayed my test firing, but maybe after work today.

Bronco4me
January 26, 2010, 03:34 AM
Yes, 4.8 of Unique works real nice with the 125 LRN out of my SP-01.

Deus Machina
January 26, 2010, 06:09 AM
I use 125gr RN's cast from a Lee mold, and I have to load down to 1.05" in my CZ. I suspect the 124TL's (with the shoulder) would take more easily to the proper 1.12" OAL.

Tumbled-lubed 125's cast from wheel-weights over 3.9 to 4.1 grains of Red Dot is at least as accurate as Blazer out of my PCR. 4.3 grains starts leading, but I think using a TL-style bullet will cut down on that.

Quoheleth
February 8, 2010, 10:28 PM
I finally got to the range this morning with my 1.07" OAL loads. I had great success with these today; there were no problems at all. In fact, these loads were spooky accurate for me, producing 3"-15 shot groups at 12 yards. The CZ is an excellent gun and it makes an average shooter (me) into a pretty doggone good shooter.

Q

Rule3
February 9, 2010, 05:03 PM
I found the sweet spot for my CZ75B and 75D PCR.

Loaded 125 gr LRN with 3.8gr HP-38/W-231 at 1.080 OAL Works like a charm. Easy to shoot and very accurate.

This load also works well in my Browning High Power Practical. The empty brass pretty much drops at your feet.

schmeky
February 9, 2010, 05:14 PM
Quoheleth,

Thanks for the load data using the MB small ball. I've used this bullet in the past with the same charge OCD1 uses and the exact same OAL.

I have gotten some bench rested, 2.0", 25 yard groups using this load through my SP-01. If you have any 231, 3.8 gns is an excellent load.

squarles67
February 9, 2010, 05:40 PM
I had to shorten OAL to 1.06 to get the MB small ball to feed reliably in my CZ75B

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