Conceal from... your kids?


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FranklyTodd
January 22, 2010, 08:48 PM
Background: I carry every day and have for a few years - either S&W snub in my pocket or P2000SK IWB. I am confident the weapons are well concealed. I have 3 kids, 12, 10 and 5.

Question: How does anyone out there similarly situated handle the kids? My kids have been taught gun safety, and shoot a bit (none of them seem overly enthusiastic), but they do not know I carry. I would like to keep it that way, but they constantly hug me or push me around in fun, and I just know I'm going to get busted.

In fact a while ago the 12 year old playfully punched me in the thigh in the car because I teased him about something - right into my M&P340 in my pocket! :eek: He asked what the heck that was (rubbing his hand :neener:), and I think I just mumbled phone and changed the subject...

When they are old enough to decide for themselves I will support their decision whether or not to carry, but I do not intend to push them towards it.

Anyway, at what age have you guys/gals let your kids in on your decision to carry? How did you explain it? How did you get them to keep the secret?

Thanks!

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wrs840
January 22, 2010, 09:02 PM
My kids are in the age-range of your older two, they know daddy carries, they think it's normal for daddy to carry, and it actually seems to make them more comfortable, if anything. They never "out" me, seemingly knowing instinctively that being discrete is an important part of it. I doubt this uncommon at all, and while I admire your concern for their feelings, I think you may be fretting over their perceptions about concealed-carry unnecessarily.

Les

Jim K
January 22, 2010, 09:28 PM
I wasn't there, but I heard of a pretty little 5 year-old girl who stood in a shopping cart at a nearby super market and screamed at the top of her sweet little lungs, "My daddy's carrying a gun!"

And I have told the story about a detective who was "made" by a small boy who nearly started a riot and could have gotten the officer or someone else killed.

Lesson: If you carry concealed, carry CONCEALED.

jim

GRIZ22
January 22, 2010, 09:59 PM
My kids grew up with me carrying a gun daily. No mysteries to them. Taught them gun safety and never had a problem with either of them announcing "Daddy has a gun".

Sam1911
January 22, 2010, 10:05 PM
My 6 year old daughter "made" me one day in front of family and a bunch of other Cabela's shoppers. She's hyperactive, fast, and a bit clumsy. She came flying down a row between some clothes racks and smashed fore-head first into the butt of my 1911! Made a canteloupe "THUNK" that I swear everyone in the store turned around to figure out "what was THAT?" She burst into tears and fell on the floor holding her head! Left a big white DENT right in the middle of her forehead.

Assuming your kids are taller and less spastic, what do you have to worry about? LOL!

Yeah, right, so anyway...

My kids see me holster up quite often, but we've never sat down and discussed why I might choose to have it at the grocery store or wherever. I use some of the same habitual deflections and distractions to keep their hands (and heads!) off my sidearm that I do with other family and "huggers."

But, like I said, I make no pretense about it around the house. They know it's usually there, and don't even seem to give it a thought. I think that hiding it from them until they're older and then announcing (or being discovered in) your mysterious secret might make for a more complicated and potentially awkward disclosure. I'd rather they were just raised that such things, "just are."

IMHO.

-Sam

geronimo509
January 22, 2010, 11:24 PM
I have a three year old and I carry everyday. I'm a stay at home dad so I play with my son a lot and he knows not to touch my gun. He has never screamed anything in public. I feel safer that it is not a mystery to him that I have a gun and he probably thinks that it is just a normal part of everyday life.

wrs840
January 22, 2010, 11:51 PM
^^^^
I think this is the right track.

I have a three year old... I'm a stay at home dad so I play with my son a lot...

I'm jealous. That's gonna sow and reap many benefits for you and your son. Enjoy!

Les

MrCleanOK
January 23, 2010, 01:03 AM
If you treat it as a normal, everyday thing you won't have problems with the kids. What causes problems is when guns, knives, the bench grinder, etc. has been mystified beyond the status of any other every-day item. Kids don't get excited about the lawnmower, but they also know it's dangerous and shouldn't be played with or used for chopping lettuce.

David E
January 23, 2010, 02:08 AM
Your kids are at the age to keep their mouth shut.

If they learn unexpectedly while waiting in the checkout line at Wal-Mart, it may not go well for you.

If, on the other hand, they were already aware, they wouldn't be surprised and would even avoid "accidentally" discovering it at an inopportune time.

TimboKhan
January 23, 2010, 02:58 AM
I have no children, but my buddy does, and his daughters (6 and 3) are fully aware that he carries. In fact, on several occasions they have seen him pull his pistol out to show me something on it, and for them that is a completely normal thing. His youngest doesn't necessarily get what a gun is I don't think, but the oldest does, and she knows A: Not to touch any of her dads guns and B: That it isn't anything to be worried about. I think she also knows what that gun is for, which I think is good.

My dad didn't carry, but I grew up around his rather extensive collection, and I learned at a very young age what they were, what they did, why I shouldn't screw around with them and so on. I guess I don't know for certain at what age I was introduced to them, but I can say that I literally do not remember a day of my life that guns were not somehow involved, be it looking at them, shooting them, talking about them, reading about them or whatever.

Also, I have to point out that I am perfectly well adjusted and not some violent/crazy/bloodthirsty mall ninja from the experience. Occasionally I mention that I grew up with guns and people look at me like they expect me to start spouting conspiracy theories and offer them positions in my militia. Such is not the case.

9mmepiphany
January 23, 2010, 03:26 AM
i raised 2 step-sons, my own son and now a daughter (8)

i'm also of the opinion that it only becomes a problem when you keep it a secret...deceit works like that. let's be honest about it, once they are old enough to have some understanding of the difference between right and wrong, omission really is deceit.

all my kids have known i've carried since they were about 6. it was just something daddy does and it isn't to be shared outside the family. never had a problem being "outed" by one of the kids and actually had one whisper to me once that my coat was riding up and i should "cover up" my take on it is, if they are old enough to understand what a gun is, they are old enough to understand that you carry a gun

i thought it was pretty funny when my son made an observation in a store once. he pointed out a man wearing a photographers vest and asked "Why's he wearing a shoot me first vest?"

jahwarrior
January 23, 2010, 03:52 AM
why would you conceal from your kids? i don't understand. you sound like a reasonably responsible parent; you've taught them gun safety, and take the appropriate measures to secure your gun when not carrying, correct? why the need to conceal around them?

my daughter knows full well that daddy carries a gun everyday, all day. she knows where it is on my body, and she knows not to touch it.

when i split with her mother, the ex tried to work in a stipulation that i not carry around my babygirl. she's a rabid anti, and doesn't want her kids to even look at guns. for a few weeks, i carried concealed around my daughter, for fear she'd run back and tell mommy. but then i thought, what the hell is wrong with me? she already knows daddy carries, and she knows i carry to protect her? i didn't like feeling like i was hiding it from her, so i stopped trying to hide it.

i've carried openly for awhile now; my daughter isn't fazed by seeing guns. to her, it's normal. kids will only freak out and announce to the world that you carry if it's not a normal part of their life. when i do conceal, my daughter knows it's still there, and it's no big deal. she just turned 7, by the way.

smince
January 23, 2010, 09:28 AM
My kids grew up with me carrying a gun daily. No mysteries to them. Taught them gun safety and never had a problem with either of them announcing "Daddy has a gun".I feel safer that it is not a mystery to him that I have a gun and he probably thinks that it is just a normal part of everyday life.What they said^

My son knows he can see any gun in the house if he wants to, he just has to ask me or my wife.

I agree-taking the mystery out solves most problems.

MrCleanOK
January 23, 2010, 10:59 AM
he pointed out a man wearing a photographers vest and asked "Why's he wearing a shoot me first vest?"

Classic. You're training him well :D

Guillermo
January 23, 2010, 11:37 AM
my daughter is now sixteen but I have carried all of her life. Until she was about 4 she had no clue. I had arranged my life so as to take care of a lot of the parenting duties and we spent a lot of time together.

Eddie Eagle coloring books and constant asking her about the "rules" (don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult) were the norm. Occasionally I would leave an unloaded gun where she could find it and she always came right out and asked me if I could move it so that she could do what she needed to do.

By age 6 she was shooting and knew that I carried.

A few weeks ago a neighbor called and asked if I could let someone into their back yard as they were not at home. I wasn't home but knew my daughter was. When I called to tell her that some strangers would be next door she answered, quite calm and sounding British with the pacing of her words.

"interesting the timing of your call father. Some strangers are milling about next door. I made sure that the 12 gauge is loaded and wrote down their descriptions and license plate number. They are being open so I don't think they are doing anything wrong, but it is wierd"

After explaining the situation I asked her what she would do if they broke in. Again in a calm voice, "shoot them, reload and then call 911 and you"

Love that girl!

harmon rabb
January 23, 2010, 12:09 PM
my step-son is 14, goes to the range with me, and knows i carry everywhere.

Webbj0219
January 23, 2010, 12:32 PM
I dont have kids of my own yet, so a grain of salt may be needed. I think that you should always be honest with your kids. And the older they get the more youll probable have to tell them. Like with the 5 year old will probable be satisfied with you telling him that you carry a gun for self defense and to protect your family, and thats the right thing to do. Whereas the 12 year old will probable want more of an explanation about philosophy of carry and all that jazz.

FranklyTodd
January 23, 2010, 12:38 PM
Original Poster here - I really appreciate the thoughtful comments.

Some may have concluded that guns are kept mysterious or hidden in my house. Quite the opposite - my kids see me go to and from the range and clean all my guns. The older two know how to load/unload and field strip the handguns, and both of the older two have gone with me to both the handgun range and shooting clay pigeons. I totally agree that making guns off limits and/or mysterious is asking for trouble!

What they don't know is that I carry a loaded gun with me every day to protect myself from some really bad people that exist in the world -- people who under certain circumstances I could be forced to shoot. That's a whole other level of discussion, imho.

Someone else said deceit is all bad - come on, as adults I think we all keep some aspects of our adult lives from our children, yes? At least so far, I have treated my CARRYING as a part of my life I don't bring up to them. Those that have kept it out in the open since their kids were little might have the right idea, but that's not where I currently am, and I don't have a time machine.

Further background - I live in a nice, quiet, left-leaning suburb of a pretty big city. Best schools in the state, very, very low crime, etc. Open carry would frankly be absurd around here - though technically legal. Counting my wife THREE people know I carry. I don't know anyone else - friends or family - that carries. The only person I even know that has a carry permit is a federal judge, but even he chooses not to carry.

I'm not an agenda guy - I have no interest in convincing anyone that they should carry or arguing gun rights, etc. In fact, I've sat at dinner parties and heard tipsy liberal women rage about how great gun control is and how all guns should be outlawed. I disagree with them (obviously) but they are friends and I prefer to fly completely under the radar - not like I could convince them of anything anyway! I know others put the NRA sticker on their car, wear Glock hats, etc., and that's totally cool, but just not me. I work as a corporate lawyer (don't hate me - I don't sue people!) in a huge law firm, and I am not going to risk alienating clients or potential clients, who I occasionally drive to dinner, etc.

Anyway, please keep up the discussion and maintain an open mind, I've really enjoyed most of the posts. Some think the issue is cut and dried that there is one answer, and I don't think that's the case - there is a little more nuance to it...

Guillermo
January 23, 2010, 12:41 PM
there is a little more nuance to it...

know the kid and you will make the right call

generally speaking those things spoken of do not have the mystical quality of the unknown

UpTheIrons
January 23, 2010, 12:55 PM
I have two kids, 9 and 7. They both know that I carry, and they both like to "go shoot with Daddy". My 9 yo daughter is the hugger in the family, so she is the one more likely to 'bump' into the lump on my hip. She knows its there, and it is not an issue anymore - the first couple of times, she was a little weirded out by it, but now it is a normal thing.

They have both also been told that a gun is like your underwear - you don't talk about what's "covered up" in public. ;)

FranklyTodd
January 23, 2010, 12:57 PM
Thanks Guillermo,

know the kid and you will make the right call

Actually that's super perceptive - my 12 year old I'd tell in a second, my 10 year old not so much, and not just because he's younger.

generally speaking those things spoken of do not have the mystical quality of the unknown

True general statement, but guns aren't treated as mystical in my house, and 100% total ignorance of my carrying can't be said to create a mystical quality about carrying - trust me carrying a gun is not anything that's on their radar or that they are curious about, etc.

They are old enough I don't think they would out me in an uncomfortable way ala the WalMart story above. My thought is, if/when they discover it, I'll explain it and say it's no big deal, I've been doing it for years. At this point, it seems to me sitting them down to have a discussion would be making a bigger deal of it than just continued silence!

TonyDedo
January 23, 2010, 01:26 PM
I'm of the mindset that nothing can truly be concealed from your kids - they're going to find out eventually (or at least realize that you're hiding something from them). Kids, on the other hand, tend to be very good at concealing things from their parents.

It's bad enough to try to hide it from your kids, which is just going to draw their attention and curiosity. It's even worse that they're going to try to satisfy that curiosity and hide it from you at the same time. The last thing you want is for them to be snooping around your guns stuff without you knowing. And then they think they know a secret, and when kids think they know a secret, they want to share it with the world. The kid tells another kid at school "my dad carries a gun," he tells another kid, the teacher overhears, and the next thing you know you're getting harassed by school security when you go to pick your kid up from school, because it's a 'gun free zone.'

Best to approach it as MrCleanOK suggested - treat it as a normal, every day thing. Because it is. Take the mystery and intrigue out of it, and your kid won't think twice about it. Just like the lawnmower.

Sam1911
January 23, 2010, 01:38 PM
I'll reiterate what I was suggesting before. The earlier you reach that point of "full disclosure" with your kids, and the more of a "matter-of-course" you make it seem, the less confrontation/surprise/questioning you'll have to deal with when they do discover.

And as you get up into their teenage years, there is always a straining or redefining of trust between parent and maturing child. If they see this as something you've been deliberately hiding from them that trust can be more strained than it should be.

If they're old enough to have realized that most people in society don't carry a weapon, and when they're 18 or 20 you "come out of the closet" in a big revelation, that's setting yourself up to seem "unusual." Considering that kids often are pushing back against the bounds and ideals of their parents, at least a little bit, at that age, I'd worry about building up to such a disclosure by continuing to deceive.

If I was in your position, I'd begin (NOW, if not sooner!) to allow them to see the gun on my belt as I was putting on my jacket to go out -- just casually, just occasionally. If/when they question why you have it, a simple and fairly light comment like, "Well, you never know just what might happen out in the world these days," will probably appease their mild curiosity. It's pretty unlikely you really have to dig into the deep, dark, dangers that lurk in society. At least not yet.

But I wouldn't hide it any more. Make it seem normal now and it won't be a big divisive issue later.

-Sam

TonyDedo
January 23, 2010, 01:38 PM
They have both also been told that a gun is like your underwear - you don't talk about what's "covered up" in public.

That's great!

FranklyTodd
January 23, 2010, 02:28 PM
Sam and Tony,

Great posts - thank you, sincerely. I'm considering telling them (or letting them notice on my terms), that's why I posted. You (and others) have given me other perspectives and/or things to think about. I think there's a huge chance that when they find out it will be most anti-climactic moment in history - "oh, ok, didn't know." I would be surprised if they are totally surprised. I've done martial arts since before they were born, so they know I have a self-defense mindset, and they know I shoot a lot. Not a huge leap to put the two together...

I think I'm going to let my wife read this whole thread and we'll have a discussion about it. She's very tolerant of my carrying, but far from a fan.

buck460XVR
January 23, 2010, 03:37 PM
Kids are smarter and more observant than most of us give them credit for. If you are as open about guns with your family as you say and carry daily, I have my doubts that you oldest does not know already. Intentionally hiding it from him and lying about it when he asks is teaching him it is okay to lie and will make him wonder if you are hiding things from him cause they are wrong. If they know you are carrying and that there's a good reason not to "out" you, that possibility, even as slight as it is, is gone. Even a subtle "mommy, why does daddy have his gun with him?" in a crowded store is not a good thing.

Magic_Man
January 23, 2010, 04:05 PM
Not the same, but after 2 of my friends decided to talk about me carrying concealed, WHILE WE'RE OUT IN PUBLIC, I am not going to tell anyone that doesn't already know I carry. Too risky.

brassdog
January 23, 2010, 06:07 PM
If you treat it as a normal, everyday thing you won't have problems with the kids. What causes problems is when guns, knives, the bench grinder, etc. has been mystified beyond the status of any other every-day item. Kids don't get excited about the lawnmower, but they also know it's dangerous and shouldn't be played with or used for chopping lettuce.
My wife had a co-worker who was a single mom raising a 10 year son. They were invited over to our girls' birthday party and that boy was absolutely fascinated with my lawnmower. I was afraid he was going to try and start the thing in the middle of the party. Turns out he never had any exposure to the typical things we take for granted.

Same goes for taking the mystery out of things. Whether its firearms or lawnmowers. My children know I have them and that they can see them if they ask. They also know not to talk about them outside of the house since the schools are zero tolerance and everybody else is an unknown.

smince
January 23, 2010, 07:20 PM
The only person I even know that has a carry permit is a federal judge,A lot can be read into this statement...perhaps things that shouldn't be read into it...

FranklyTodd
January 23, 2010, 08:16 PM
A lot can be read into this statement...perhaps things that shouldn't be read into it...

Really? I can't think of a thing that could be read into it, but if your imagination is running with it, go for it!

Seriously though, I didn't mean anything interesting, probably no reason for me to have called him out by profession. Just a guy I know, happens to be a judge, took the CCW class and has his permit, elects not to carry. He's one of the three people that knows I carry. We swapped CCW class stories.

If you are as open about guns with your family as you say and carry daily, I have my doubts that you oldest does not know already. Intentionally hiding it from him and lying about it when he asks is teaching him it is okay to lie and will make him wonder if you are hiding things from him cause they are wrong.

buck, I think you might be getting carried away. The kids don't know I carry an amex, either, or what color socks I put on. The kids don't watch me get dressed in the morning (when I strap on) and they don't watch me change out of my clothes when I get home (when I put it away). I carry concealed, so by your logic I'm "intentionally lying" to everyone that sees me? If he asked I would not lie about it - no way! The time he hit it and said "what the heck!?" it was not a serious question to which he expected an answer, he just hurt his hand a little.

If any of the kids had a clue about it they would ask me about it in a second. We have very open communications about everything. This topic just hasn't ever come up because it's concealed carry. My wife rarely sees me arm either, it's just part of my morning routine - she doesn't watch me floss my teeth either... The fact that it hasn't come up is why I started this thread, now that we are this far along and they are getting older I am debating how/when/if to bring it up.

My children know I have [guns] and that they can see them if they ask.Me too.

RETG
January 23, 2010, 09:43 PM
My kids basically grew up knowing dad carried a gun. I never concealed it in the house. When I returned from work, the coat came off, and the gun was there. To them, it was part of my life, and part of their life.

Heck, my gun was with me in the delivery room when my last child was born. Don't believe he noticed it that day.:D (Rushed from work to home, from there to the hospital, no time to stop, and no place to safely lock up a gun. So, it went into the delivery room with me.)

They were taught gun safety as early as possible. Shooting a .22 at around five years old, and progressed to larger calibers.

Like someone said, kids are more observant then we give them credit for.

9mmepiphany
January 23, 2010, 10:35 PM
Someone else said deceit is all bad - come on, as adults I think we all keep some aspects of our adult lives from our children, yes?

i'm really making an effort to live honestly since having kids and find that it is returned with honesty...there is very little that we can't talk about...it's just a matter of trust. i've always answered any question they've asked as honestly as they can understand...i just ask for some discretion about "where" they ask their questions. but that's just a personal choice, i don't ask others to live their life that way.

Classic. You're training him well

i'm a product of my childhood. they also have an automatic response should i say "Cover", know the difference between cover and concealment, know which parts of cars will stop bullets and know that the first priority if something "happens" at school is to "get out"

smallbore
January 23, 2010, 11:31 PM
My wife, children, their spouses and my oldest grandchild all know that I carry.

twofifty
January 24, 2010, 01:17 AM
Kids vary in their personalities and maturity.

Good parenting is knowing when a child is ready to take on or accept the next level of responsibility, for example, that daddy CCs and don't go blabbing this all over town. Each family moves along this continuum at its own rate. Some do this well, others not.

It's kind of like in the Army: your briefing will only contain exactly what you or your unit needs to carry out your part of the mission. What concerns the brass is seldom shared with the ranks (even though the latter live or die by it). Family life is kind of like that. ;)

TexasBill
January 24, 2010, 02:47 AM
My kids are all older (youngest is 12) and they all know I carry because I open carry at home. The 12-year-old shares my interest in guns and enjoys shooting and also knows we don't discuss what's under Dad's jacket or shirt when we're out. He also knows that all the guns, except for the one I am carrying, are locked up or secured and that all the ammunition is also locked up.

I count myself as lucky as most of my son's friends come from homes with guns so it's no big deal.

My younger daughter, who is 20, is a bit more liberal than I am (don't read anything into that: she is a good shot and enjoys shooting) and she prefers that her friends not know that I carry, so I just cover up when her friends come over.

smince
January 24, 2010, 08:40 AM
Really? I can't think of a thing that could be read into it, but if your imagination is running with it, go for it! Well it could have been phrased:The only person I even know that has a carry permit (besides myself) is a federal judge,The way you put it sounded to me like you might be having to do what you have to do.

FranklyTodd
January 24, 2010, 09:29 AM
Smince: I see how you could read it that way, but I carry legally. :)

rhartwell
January 24, 2010, 11:03 AM
Your kids are smarter than you give them credit for. I introduced my kids to my guns at a very early age. My daughter was 3 when she shot her first gun. they learned early that guns were not toys. before 10 they knew how to check rifles and handguns for being loaded or not. They knew how to clean them. I never had a problem because I started them out early. I could have left my gun on the counter and the kids would not touch them. But they knew what to do with them if someone broke in. Give them credit.

Guillermo
January 24, 2010, 12:11 PM
She's very tolerant of my carrying, but far from a fan.

One would think that she would support you being prepared to protect the family.

Thomas Jefferson said something to the effect of "it is not only every man's right but responsibility to go about armed"

rha600
January 24, 2010, 12:26 PM
I have no kids and actuall I don't carr either but I can tell you my experience as a child.

i've been hunting since before I was old enough to have a license to do so. I'd sit in the tree stand with my dad or along the hedge row helping him to look for deer so I've been around guns (and bows) all my life. The guns (shotguns and rifles) were kept in a gun cabinet with sliding glass doors (this was the 1970s, no gun safe) in my parents bedroom. I never felt the need to play with the guns and I knew where they were and how to use them since I was 6. I think the reason I didn't have the curiousity was because I was regularly taken out to shoot them as opposed to being hidden from them.

If you think about it, kids are cursious. If you hid the stove from them and then one day showed it to them they'd probably be just as curious. I'm not saying you should expose them to the guns but I know if I had kids I would expose them to the guns regularly and as much as they wanted to be so as to cure that curiousity.

harmon rabb
January 24, 2010, 03:48 PM
I think I'm going to let my wife read this whole thread and we'll have a discussion about it. She's very tolerant of my carrying, but far from a fan.

that's unfortunate. my wife to be appreciates the fact I'm carrying and always have a weapon ready to protect us.

why is your wife against carrying?

FranklyTodd
January 24, 2010, 07:22 PM
OP here again. Here are some of my thoughts on some previous posts...

why is your wife against carrying? You'd have to ask her, but she's not on these boards much... She has accepted my decision to carry, but it's not for her. We don't sit around and discuss guns and gun-related topics.

If you think about it, kids are cursious. If you hid the stove from them and then one day showed it to them they'd probably be just as curious. I'm not saying you should expose them to the guns but I know if I had kids I would expose them to the guns regularly and as much as they wanted to be so as to cure that curiousity. I agree - my kids are regularly exposed to guns; they do not know I CCW.

One would think that she would support you being prepared to protect the family.

Thomas Jefferson said something to the effect of "it is not only every man's right but responsibility to go about armed" This post is not really on topic and kind of obnoxious. Here's part of Jefferson's wikipedia:

Jefferson was not an advocate of women's suffrage; author Richard Morris wrote, "Abigail Adams excepted, Jefferson detested intellectual women. Annoyed by the political chatter of women in Parisian salons, he wrote home expressing the hope that 'our good ladies ... are contented to soothe and calm the minds of their husbands returning ruffled from political debate.'" While President, Jefferson wrote that "The appointment of a woman to office is an innovation for which the public is not prepared, nor am I." Might be time to evolve a little there, G.

I introduced my kids to my guns at a very early age. Me too.

huntme
January 25, 2010, 09:45 AM
i would tell them at about 10 years old that i carry c.w.i would teach them not to touch my carry gun.not to play with my carry gun,not to think about playing with my carry gun.then i would let them shoot my carry gun.then i would show them how good i am with my carry gun.then i would answer any questions they had about my carry gun,then i would tell them that me carring a gun is no ones bussiness but mine.

Guillermo
January 25, 2010, 10:43 AM
This post is not really on topic and kind of obnoxious

Not near as obnoxious as a the one that was obviously posted by one that is arrogant and fatuous as well as displays autocratic tendancies.

Read back, you might be able to figure out which one I reference.

FranklyTodd
January 25, 2010, 03:09 PM
G. - not really interested in your evaluation of what or how my wife should think. Perhaps I attributed a tone to your post that wasn't there, but I read your post as obnoxious and judgmental, stepping over the line for my taste.

Looking at your post count, you post on average roughly twice per day 365 days per year. Maybe you should read more and try to learn from others' experiences and, when relevant, offer your experiences, rather than offer your unconstructive criticism and/or agenda every chance your get, even where it is neither invited nor appreciated.

Let's agree to disagree.

lowracer
January 25, 2010, 05:25 PM
Normal part of everyday life for my boy of 3.5 years. Before we go out he knows to remind Mama to bring: "Keys, Phone, Wallet."

He doesn't need to remind Papa but does: "Keys, Phone, Wallet, Gun."

He hasn't said anything out loud in public. He knows why Papa carries, to protect the family and keep us safe. This is a great comfort to him.

Guillermo
January 25, 2010, 09:07 PM
not really interested in your evaluation of what or how my wife should think. Perhaps I attributed a tone to your post that wasn't there, but I read your post as obnoxious and judgmental, stepping over the line for my taste.

Looking at your post count, you post on average roughly twice per day 365 days per year. Maybe you should read more and try to learn from others' experiences and, when relevant, offer your experiences, rather than offer your unconstructive criticism and/or agenda every chance your get, even where it is neither invited nor appreciated.


one that is arrogant and fatuous as well as displays autocratic tendancies.

Gotta love it when you hit a bullseye

moooose102
January 28, 2010, 08:13 AM
My kids are 8 &6. They both know i carry all of the time. It is just not even an issue. They just know that it is something daddy does to keep them safe. That is how i explained it to them 2 years ago, and after about the first month, they just think it is normal. The problem you have right now is the kids going to school and blabbing it all over. If i were in your position, i would tell them about the thrid day of summer vacation. That way, the amount of other kids they tell will be quite limited, and by the time school comes around, it will not be an issue. I even take it with me when i take them to, or pick them up from school. If i have to go in, i simply lock it in the car. Again, it is just a non issue.

deadeyedog270
January 28, 2010, 08:52 AM
I have a three year old and I carry everyday. I'm a stay at home dad so I play with my son a lot and he knows not to touch my gun. He has never screamed anything in public. I feel safer that it is not a mystery to him that I have a gun and he probably thinks that it is just a normal part of everyday life.

I'm with you I have been a stay at home dad for 7 years now and both my kids know I carry and have never said a thing, guns are a part of there lives and know some basic gun safty

shenandoah
January 28, 2010, 09:05 AM
Let us know how it works out.

texas bulldog
January 28, 2010, 03:08 PM
Kids are smarter and more observant than most of us give them credit for. If you are as open about guns with your family as you say and carry daily, I have my doubts that you oldest does not know already.

i was starting to think this about halfway down the first page. at 12 years old, it's certainly possible that your son has already figured it out. kids do that; their brains are like sponges. if not, he will probably discover it soon. the incident in the car was a close call, and you can safely assume that there will be more in the future. if i were you, i would let them in on this fact now.

my kids are quite young...14 months and 1 month. they've already seen me arm-up before going out, not that they'll remember it or would have any idea what it is at this point (though the oldest is quite sharp and notices everything). however, i have no intention of hiding it from them ever. so they'll know as soon as they understand what it is, i suppose. as other posters have said, my plan is to make it as normal as carrying a phone or wallet but to make it clear that it is something not to be discussed outside the family. if they ever want to see a gun, they'll need only ask. heck, there's already a single-shot .22 in the safe waiting for the right christmas to be given. we bought it before the first one was even born.

mcdonl
January 28, 2010, 04:03 PM
My kids grew up with me carrying a gun daily. No mysteries to them. Taught them gun safety and never had a problem with either of them announcing "Daddy has a gun".

+100

rcmodel
January 28, 2010, 04:10 PM
Same here.

Started answering their gun questions when they were in diapers.
They wanted to see & hold one? I let them.
Took them shooting before they could hold one up.
They were helping me reload by the time they are big enough to see over the bench top.
Shooting up all my ammo by the time they were teenagers.

It was their little friends from anti-gun homes I worried about all the time.
They had a morbid curiosity about guns, and I never could trust them even as teen-agers.

All they knew about guns was what they learned on TV!
Even if you shot somebody in the chest, they were back in action & unruffled by the next scene or two.

rc

cleardiddion
January 28, 2010, 04:26 PM
This is probably one of the more informative threads I've read as of late.
Thanks for posting guys (well, mostly)!
I think you guys helped me solve a potential problem in the future!

Guillermo
January 28, 2010, 04:29 PM
rcmodel,

Your situation is sadly unique these days. With the emasculation of the modern American male a father actually fathering is not the norm. More and more “men” are asking “permission” to buy guns, to carry and/or to teach their children.

My daughter is now 16 and like your kids, she is and has been 100% trustworthy concerning firearms. I gave her a Smith 19 for her 15th birthday. That is sadly not the norm.

I have the privilege to be around a lot of young people. My business allows me to do some volunteering so on any given day I might be coaching high school basketball or teaching women self defense (RADS). I would bet that perhaps 10 or 15% of the kids have ANY experience with firearms despite the fact than 30% of the fathers hunt.

It is my theory, admittedly not scientific, that most of them do not vet the wife process well enough and once married lack the huevos to stand by their convictions.

Because of these and other reasons we have people wondering whether to allow their children to know that they carry a sidearm.

harmon rabb
January 28, 2010, 04:46 PM
Guillermo,

A-freakin-men.

ozarkgunner
January 28, 2010, 06:00 PM
I've had my CCW permit for 3 1/2 years, and have been CCing since. I have 3 kids, 5,7, and 10. All three know I carry. They know why, "there are bad guys out there" and daddy will shot them if he needs to. They have no issue with it. It's normal to them. They never bring it up. They never ask why I carry, or make an issue of it with me. They are learning gun safety, and are doing well. They know not to touch guns laying around our house, or someone elses.
I feel like many others. Mystery makes things more interesting. More exciting to discove and play with. I made my guns known to the kids when they were old enough to understand what they were and what they can do.

rdrancher
January 31, 2010, 10:44 AM
It is my theory, admittedly not scientific, that most of them do not vet the wife process well enough and once married lack the huevos to stand by their convictions.
Because of these and other reasons we have people wondering whether to allow their children to know that they carry a sidearm.

:D

rd

Evil One
January 31, 2010, 12:36 PM
I have 2 boys of my own and a step son... 15, 13, and 12.
My boys have grown up around my weapons, the oldest was stripping and cleaning my star super @ 10-11.
They shoot with me, clean them with me.
My step son was introduced to firearms when my wife moved in with me.
They know they can handle them at any time as long as they ask.
They hold no more mystery than an egg beater or spoon for them.
My 1st wife, my childrens mother is fairly anti gun... and wouldnt let her current husband have a pistol in the house till someone took a shot at them in their car.
She still isnt thrilled... but he told her that he WAS going to have a pistol and he WAS going to carry it.
My step sons father is an avid hunter but not a pistol guy.
His father told my wife he was getting him a BB gun, she told him that it was a good idea... since he was shooting our .22 rifle, .44 and .45 handguns. :D
My current wife has her own firearms and carries them.
I am ALL about teaching children about firearms, their usage, and safety from the time they are small.
If firearms are demystified, then... as a rule... children are MUCH safer around them.
For me this was a personal and obvious choice.


Jim

Guillermo
February 1, 2010, 11:47 AM
Evil One


My current wife has her own firearms and carries them.

It sounds like you go better at the wife-vetting process. Practice makes perfect! :D

All three of your sons obviously benefit from your tutelage.

My hat is tipping

Good job

Evil One
February 1, 2010, 12:06 PM
Thank you Sir...
She is my 3rdwife... "#3 in your programs, #1 in my heart" :D
I try to do the "traditional guy things" with them... and they are lucky enough to have male role models 24/7.
My boys step father and I get along great... I wrench on cars with him when I can... go to cook outs, etc. And he is all about camping, 4 wheeling, dirtbike riding... and includes the kids.
My step sons father is an avid hunter and fisher... and takes his son outdoors quite a bit.
I think these 3 are a lot more fortunate than most kids out there today.
Divorces can be hard on children... but in these 2 cases, they actually ended up with 2 families that love them like nothing else.

Oh yea, I work on the road a bit doing telecom... while I am out next time my wife will be picking up 2 .44 magnum snubbies for me :D
Yes she has a sister... but the sister is NOTHING like her ;)


Jim

Guillermo
February 1, 2010, 04:25 PM
Once again, my hat is off to you.

Three young people are learning how to take responsibility for themselves. If you accomplish nothing else in life, you did good.

I have tried to do the same thing with my offspring, a female. From an early age she had chores and things she had to get done. From the beginning I told her that I wanted her to be as autonomous as possible. By age 12 she could rebuild a toilet from the wax ring up. Build a cedar fence. Sharpen a knife. Change the oil. Cut up a chicken. Make a roux. Break down every gun I own and clean and lube it.

She is now a 16 year old with a 4.29GPA at a very good private school.

And no, I never had to conceal from her. She always took comfort from the fact that I carry.

Evil One
February 1, 2010, 05:09 PM
This comes from my personal belief that as a parent... you are not there to take care of the child.
You are there to raise them into functional adults.
Our kids sit down with us to make meal plans, pay the bills, make a household budget...
They cook, shop, work around the house.
I honestly think they will be OK when they get out on their own.
I dont know how many people I have seen that move out... and are totally lost.
They cant handle banking, paying their bills, cooking their food, or anything other than playing video games and driving thru McDonalds.
I honestly feel that if more parents raised their children like you and I are... this country wouldnt be quite as bad off as it is at the moment.
Congrats on your wonderful daughter.


Jim

Guillermo
February 1, 2010, 07:15 PM
Glad you mentioned video games. I never let my daughter have a game box but was generous with book buying. Her reading comprehension was college level in 7th grade.

Also the "shooting people is fun" that they learn from video games never happened with her. Heck, we never turned on the TV until she went to bed until she was in 7th grade.

Because of this you can see why I never had to hide my carrying a firearm from her.

Once again, congratulations. Sounds like you are seeding our country with some responsible young men.

Thank you

FranklyTodd
February 2, 2010, 09:48 AM
Sorry I've been away, I've had laundry and vacuuming to do. :p

I believe there's many ways to raise good kids - and many on here seem to be trying their best to do just that. I say bravo. :D I've enjoyed reading the thoughtful posts of folks' opinions.

However, anyone else get ****** (rhymes with sploosh) chills listening to some posters bragging about their big "huevos" or how they "vetted their women" so they know their place I guess? :barf:

No wonder some of you spend all day on these boards blabbing away on every thread - you are so coooool here... :rolleyes: Pathetic.

Evil One
February 2, 2010, 10:02 AM
I dont know about a "vetting process"... but I think that having a mate that meshes well with you... and you with them is important.
It only took me 2 marriages to figure that out. :D
As for the "big huevos..." Why do you think I wear a kilt? ;)
I keed!!!


Jim

Guillermo
February 2, 2010, 02:55 PM
Jim, do yourself a favor and ignore Frankly Todd. He is either delusional or has no reading comprehension as nobody bragged about the size of their heuvos or suggested that they should only choose a woman who "knows her place".

Some people just want to pick a fight and are not afraid to "misunderstand" or lie to do it. Not very HighRoad so I suggest that you just use the ignore button.

As to the OP, were I you I would not hide the fact that I carry a firearm but I WOULD hide the fact that you wear a skirt! :what:

Evil One
February 2, 2010, 02:59 PM
Its not a skirt... you wear underwear under a skirt... :D


Jim

FranklyTodd
February 2, 2010, 03:14 PM
G the misogynist says:It is my theory, admittedly not scientific, that most of them do not vet the wife process well enough and once married lack the huevos to stand by their convictions.

G - let me detour from the high road and call you out for the tool you are. You were the first to post offensively and off topic. A wife is not something you "vet" and a marriage and the raising of children is supposed to be an equal partnership. My wife and I are raising three terrific sons together and I haven't compromised my "convictions" in any way. That may not be the cooooool thing to say when you are an internet warrior like you, but that's the way I run my life.

I'll give you the last word on this because, frankly, you bore me.

Safe shooting and carrying to all, and again thanks to all the non-tools who posted - I liked hearing the different stories and perspectives.

FT

Guillermo
February 2, 2010, 03:29 PM
vetting is another term for select.
I agree about the partnership of marriage.
I never mentioned your convictions, the size of my heuvos or that a woman should "know her place".

That you think I am a "tool" is a good thing. One is identified by their friends as much as their enemies and as you are not a slave to the truth I am happy that you are not the former.

This is a DISCUSSION board. If you don't like people talking about your wife and her beliefs perhaps you should not post them on a DISCUSSION board.

As to the post that I made that torqued your panties the quote I offered is my belief. As Thomas Jefferson said it is everyone's RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY to go about armed. And swerving back to the OP, I believe that we should teach our children that as well.

As you freely admit that your personal attack is not HR perhaps you will do the honorable thing and no longer post on this fine DISCUSSION forum.

Art Eatman
February 2, 2010, 03:49 PM
Too far gone...

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