If the SHTF, what do you need- more guns or more ammo?


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2dogs
January 20, 2003, 08:43 PM
Am I inadequately prepared, with half a dozen or so handguns and Remington 870- no rifle. But if I knew it was coming I think at this point I'd go for more ammo for the guns I have.:uhoh:

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AR-10
January 20, 2003, 09:02 PM
Depends on how much ammo you got.

Remington 870 capable of shooting slugs acurately to 100yds. would be pretty effective in a lot of scenarios. If you got the slugs and the experience, you're set.

I got plenty of guns-n-ammo. Need more food and a 1,000 gallon gasolene tank. If I knew a SHTF scenario was iminent I would go buy a five year supply of toilet paper.

It's the little things.:D

meathammer
January 20, 2003, 09:04 PM
Ammo. I feel adequate in the guns department.

Skunkabilly
January 20, 2003, 09:17 PM
More friends with one or more of the following criteria, in that order:
1. Common sense
2. Common sense
3. Medical & other survival skills
4. Reliable
5. Decent shot

We can divvy up the few guns, but having lookouts and people I trust is more important, IMO.

firestar
January 20, 2003, 09:24 PM
It depends on what gun I decide to grab. I have more ammo for my AK than I can carry right now but I only have 40 rounds of .223 for my Ar-15:uhoh: .

I guess that if TSHTF, I would have to grab my AK just because my ammo situation.

rage
January 20, 2003, 09:27 PM
Definetly more ammo...head for the hills...food-water-survival****...communications.

Get a rifle dude!:rolleyes:

NewShooter78
January 20, 2003, 09:28 PM
More ammo here. Considering I've got access to my grandfather's old guns, I'd have it all really: semi-auto, shotgun, rifle, revolver. Now all I need is a lot more .40 s&w, .270 win, 12g 00buck and slugs, and .38sp rounds. Oh, and I second the toilet paper comment.

DeltaElite
January 20, 2003, 09:31 PM
More targets, definitely more targets. :evil:

2dogs
January 20, 2003, 09:36 PM
More friends with one or more of the following criteria

Skunkabilly

6. Banjo:D

Oleg Volk
January 20, 2003, 09:39 PM
More training, medicine and medical skills.
Ammo more than guns...ahlf-dozen guns would be plenty but ammo might be tight.

spacemanspiff
January 20, 2003, 09:47 PM
i need more of everything. especially ammo.

gypsy3
January 20, 2003, 09:49 PM
I got lotsa guns and lotsa ammo. If the police ever search my home for any reason...........You'll see me on TV giving the one fingered salute to the news media.

Skunkabilly
January 20, 2003, 09:50 PM
IN CASE OF TEOWAWKI EVERYONE MEET AT OLEG AND RUNT'S PAD!!!

cheygriz
January 20, 2003, 09:58 PM
First, you need a cool headed, unexcitable leader with a clear plan, understood by all. Without this person and plan, the rest is wasted effort.

Then:

1. personnel--calm, thoughtful, resourceful people

2. water- and a means of obtaining more- i.e., filters, purifaction chemicals, etc.

3. food- lots of it. Freeze dried, dehydrated, etc. Rice, beans, flour, oats, jerky, canned meat. And a means of preparing said food.

4. shelter/clothing-adequate to climatic conditions. Ordinary, everyday clothing that will not attract attention to your group.

5. first aid/medical supplies and more than one person trained in their use.

6. hunting type guns and moderate supply of ammo if appropriate.

7. defensive/paramilitary guns and moderate supply of ammo. Kept hidden from veiw unless needed.

8. means of communications with outside world, such as ham radio-CB, short wave receiver etc. Means of cummunicating within your group, FRS radio, flashlights and people trained in morse code. etc.


What you DON'T NEED:

1. Walter Mitty type loonies running around in cammies and face paint with FALs. HKs, ARs etc.

2. A bunch of wasted weight/space used up by handguns/ammo. Take an extra canteen or a couple of extra cans of spam instead of your 1911

3. Wasted space/weight on large quantites of buckshot/slugs. Unless that's your hunting, as well as defensive ammo

4. People who can't/won't take orders for the good of the group. In a SHTF situation, when you've planned your responses in advance, you dont' need an idiot(s) that won't follow the plan or the leader.

BenW
January 20, 2003, 10:12 PM
If the SHTF, what do you need- more guns or more ammo?
Neither. You'd be better served with a flak jacket to give you a chance against the stray bullets from the bajillion other people that are, "heading for the hills."

goon
January 20, 2003, 10:30 PM
I am still sort of preparing, but not with the customary "the sky is falling" philosophy. I need another bolt action, another 22lr, and a couple of more miscellaneous guns.
I also need knowledge that I currently don't have. I can read, so the only thing stopping me from getting that is that I have not bought the books to learn from yet.
There are also other items that would be of great use.
In short, we would all need more of everything.

Ron L
January 20, 2003, 10:33 PM
Probably more ammo. I've got handguns in 357, 9mm, and 22, and long guns in 22, 357, and 12 gauge. I bought these keeping very common ammo in mind (read cheap and plentiful). If anything, I'd like a nice 308 rifle and perhaps a 1911, but these aren't absolutely necessary.

Atticus
January 20, 2003, 10:50 PM
Lots of ammo. How many guns can you shoot/carry at once? I'd think that one good long gun, a pistol, and a Leatherman type tool should be sufficient in the armory dept.

Make sure those medical supplies include antibiotics, painkillers, and bleach. Extra toilet paper is an ecxcellent idea as well.

Now...tell us wha tyou know about this SHTF situation!:what:

TheLastBoyScout
January 20, 2003, 11:05 PM
If you have 1 or 2 combat weapons, and a few hundred rounds, or maybe even less for each, you should be set WEAPONS WISE for SHTF (remember SHTF is temporary, and you should only be shooting at people you want dead)
That said, an AR15 covers it for me for temporary SHTF, with several full mags and a couple hundred rounds in boxes. I'd rather have food, fuel, and meds.
If we're talking long term, I could use extra mags and maybe a wonder nine in addition to the above, but I still think that if my AR spoke in anger enough times to run down my ammo, I would have amassed quite a collection in 'Normandy reloads' or weapons/ammo/supplies taken from whoever attacked me, so I'd stilll rather have food fuel or meds before weapons.

Politically Incorrect
January 20, 2003, 11:23 PM
I had a dream today about a SHTF scenario that isn't likely to happen.

The streets were filled with Taliban fighters here in the US. How did they get here? I don't know..it was a dream. :p

Anyway, I was using my M1A to blast my way through and remembered that I only had two twenty round magazines for it. At $50 a piece, I haven't bought many. Somehow, I got my hands on my Garand.

Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, Ping.

I've got an entire .30 cal can loaded with en bloc clips plus some.

I guess the moral of the dream was to have the ammo available to use. I have plenty of .308 rounds, just not in magazines.

You should have seen those terrorist go down though. I had a sense of urgency, but I remained calm.

The end of the dream gave me a chance to "off" the Taliban leader (not bin Laden, someone else), but my AR-15 was out of ammo.

So my subconscious says that one needs more ammo than guns, but you're more likely to dream about SHTF scenario than to actually be in one. :D

blades67
January 20, 2003, 11:26 PM
If the SHTF, what do you need- more guns or more ammo?

Yes.

10-Ring
January 20, 2003, 11:48 PM
In this case, I say ammo.

PigPen
January 21, 2003, 12:17 AM
2-dogs,

I am a strong believer that everybody needs a reliable handgun of a sensible HD caliber (9mm, 45acp, 357, maybe even a 38spl would do), a shotgun for close in shooting (inside the house for sure), and an AR-15 in 5.56mm (M193/M855) for shooting out of the windows if necessary. I also like a .308 such as an AR10 or FN-FAL, etc......probably don't need it but i like one around any way.

For ammo, 100 rounds of handgun ammo, a box of 25 shotgun shells, 200 - 300rnds of 5.56mm and 200 - 300 rounds of .308.

If you had that, I feel you would be prepared for about any circumstance you might reasonably encounter. I maen if you are in a situation where you have to hold out alone against very large numbers for a long period of time, then a whole new scenario developes. You would have to consider communication, food and water, medicine, energy, bottled water and on and on........let's just hope THAT doesn't happen.

PigPen

echo3mike
January 21, 2003, 12:26 AM
More ammo...good to go in the gun department...actually, could use a shotgun and a AR carbine....


O.K., I need beaucoup ammo for those, too:cuss: ...geez I'm slackin'

S.

vulcan
January 21, 2003, 12:42 AM
More ammo, If your shtf scenario runs long, ammo is a good barter item & likely banned for sale in stores by the gubmit.:p

AZTOY
January 21, 2003, 12:42 AM
If the SHTF gun and ammo will be available, but you will need to clean the red stuff off them.:D

bbrins
January 21, 2003, 01:23 AM
Ammo and spare magazines stored in more than one place, just in case someone finds one of your stashes. If you have more ammo than you need, you could most likely use it like money.

Seeker
January 21, 2003, 02:23 AM
and a 1,000 gallon gasolene tank. Doesn't gasoline go 'flat' after a relativly short period of time?

SteelyDan
January 21, 2003, 02:42 AM
The guns and ammo are probably a lot more fun to acquire (at least for me), but, realistically, once you've performed some minimum "due diligence" in those areas the other stuff becomes a whole lot more important if you're really worried about a survival situation.

You need shelter. Hopefully you can stay at home. If you're in an inner-city high-rise, that may not be a good option. Where are you going to go? Do you at least have a good tent? Or do you just plan to shoot some remote farmer and take over his house; if that's your plan I hope he gets you first. I'm serious about this. If you have to leave home, there will probably be, depending where you live, tens or hundreds of thousands of people doing the same thing, all of whom will run out of gas within a 200 mile radius, depending how full their gas tank is. How full is your tank? Got any extra gas tanks in the garage? Where are you going to go, and how are you going to get there? And if you live in Bigtown USA, where there's a smallpox breakout, you'd better not expect those friendly folks in Smallville USA to welcome you with open arms. You'll probably be on your own, at least for a while.

Real soon, you'll need water. Hopefully, you've got at least a few days worth in the basement. Once that's gone, your PUR Hiker is only going to cut if for about 100 gallons, and your little bottle of iodine treatment might add about 4 gallons. My suggestion is the Katadyn Gravityn [sp?], which is good for 30,000 gallons, plus a replacement filter or two. Costs around $250, without the extra filter, but that's going to be more important than having your third AR.

If it gets cold where you live (e.g., it's about -2 degrees outside here now), you need heat. Do you have a wood burning stove? How much wood? Chainsaw? Fuel? Extra chains? And do you have good sleeping bags, and I'm not talking about the Coleman 40-degree bags at Wal-Mart.

Gees, we haven't even talked about food yet. MREs are fine for a few days, but otherwise they're way too expensive for most of us. You need bulk quantities of staples: flour, salt, sugar, baking powder and soda, rice, oils and fats, wheat, beans, etc. Stock up on some multi-vitamins. And if you make it through the first year, what will you do in Year 2? You need seeds for vegetables; start a garden, there are freeze-dried vegetable seeds all over the Web. Also, you'll want some fishing gear to help supplement the diet, and maybe some traps or snares, and the knowledge to use them.

Sooner or later, someone you care about will get sick. It would sure be nice to have some broad-spectrum antibiotics. Actually, you can pick them up at farming/animal supply houses (I'm not a doctor, I'm not representing anything, but I understand that some of them, like Tetracycline, are chemically identical to the human versions), but they're no good if you don't know how to use them. Do some research, find out what works, buy some stuff, and print the dosages on the container (so if you're dead someone else can figure out what to do). Plus, you may require special medications. If that's the case, explain your concerns to your doctor and try to get a three-month stash. Hopefully, things will blow over by then. In addition, you'll want to have a first-class first aid kit, which is a subject in-and-of itself.

You will want light. The MagLite will not cut it, at least after a couple of hours. I suggest LED lights because they last so much longer; the LEDs last virtually forever, and battery lives are extended by a factor of 10 or 20. Some rechargeable batteries and a small solar battery charger would probably do the trick.

Sanitation will be critical. How are you set for soap? Do you know how to make soap from ashes and animal fat? How much bleach do you have (you can more-or-less purify water with 8 drops of bleach per gallon; double the dosage if the water is cloudy)? Toilet paper, toothbrushes, toothpaste, etc.?

You'll want a radio (the more bands the better) to find out what's going on, and batteries to keep it going. Baygen Freeplay (the name may have changed) makes a very good one that can be powered by a hand crank or solar energy.

Since you want to maintain a will to survive, some "fun stuff' is essential. Simple games (checkers, chess, cards, a frisbee, whatever) and some treats like hard candies.

Sewing stuff.

A couple of survival books. Books that will tell you what plants you can eat, how long to boil water to sterilize it (5 minutes should probably do), how to preserve preserve (salt or smoke or dry) the food you obtain, medications used by native americans, etc.

Set aside some cash, nothing bigger than $20's. As much as you can comfortably afford. Some gold or silver coins would also be a good idea. Many people recommend taking copies of your important documents, too.

Miscellaneous stuff like a compass, tools, knives, multitools, fire starting gear, rain gear, maps, shovels, etc., etc.

When all is said and done, the most important thing is your brain. What do you know how to do, and what has your family learned how to do.

Gees, I just went back and read this, and I can't imagine why I was inspired to write such a long and marginally off-topic response. I guess it's just the fact that instead of spending $600 on yet-one-more gun (or ammo), there are a whole lot more practical and helpful things we can do to protect our families in case of a SHTF scenario. Sorry for the diversion.

sixgun_symphony
January 21, 2003, 02:48 AM
2dogs,

Get yourself an M1 Rifle and a case of milsurp .30 caliber ammunition.

http://www.odcmp.com/images/m1_small.jpg

Civilian Marksmanship Program (http://www.odcmp.com/)


I also recommend that you get into reloading for cost savings on ammunition. LEE (http://leeprecision.com/) is about the most affordable equipment for handloading.

http://leeprecision.com/graphics/cover1.jpg
LEE ANNIVERSARY KIT (http://leeprecision.com/catalog/browse.cgi?1043131244.2231=anivers.html)

larry_minn
January 21, 2003, 03:14 AM
Some good stuff here. If it looks like SHTF I plan to preposition some stuff at a second location. I am at my planned location right now. :)
If SHTF is say Smallpox scare and power grid falls tonight I would be fine but would have to abandon my home to get family. IF phones are still working and travel allowed would attempt to call family to my location. "city folk"
As just checked and it is 9 BELOW plus wind chill I can have heat for 3 days without any extra work. My tractor froze a fuel line the other day and is sitting outside so no 15kw generator. BUT I do have a 5000 watt coleman and over 100 gal of gas. So that is plan B.
As to question ammo will do you more good then guns until/unless you have more able bodied shooters then guns. Heck I bought a Mark IV Enfield that would be great for non shooter. Was less then $85 and 16guage shotgun was given to me. (break open) Very simple and straitforward.
IF SHTF I feel the current ATF rules are suspended. So barrels of that cheap shotgun would be trimmed. "It is rather LONG"
Edit to add
I live where (type of area) most folks will be going to. BUT if left alone and have family here I could be self sufficiant till late fall without too much bother. I.E. nothing in but natural air/water.
I have two water sources and two power sources plus inverter. While I am low on wood I do have access to trees and equipement to move with man power. I only have TP enough to last 2 months. (waiting for a good sale again) That is normal supplies where I live. (Plus when wife got transfered to FL all her household stuff got left with me)
Only other item I think I am short of is Bleach, meds (two month only) battereis (short of 9V for smoke/carbon dioxide/FRS)
Anyone want to offer me half a million dollars (US) that myself and wife couldn't live on my property for 10 months without bringing in one thing as far as food/clothing/shelter/water/fuel but of course not counting medical aid for injuries. Let me know. :)

dave
January 21, 2003, 03:22 AM
"For ammo, 100 rounds of handgun ammo, a box of 25 shotgun shells, 200 - 300rnds of 5.56mm and 200 - 300 rounds of .308." by PigPen




Man! I lose more ammo than that every month. If it's not followed by three zeros, you don't have enough.

twoblink
January 21, 2003, 05:44 AM
You need to call friends over and tell them to bring over more guns AND ammo!!

Or go to Tamara's house..

Kahr carrier
January 21, 2003, 07:44 AM
AMMO-FOOD-MONEY.:neener:

Bob Locke
January 21, 2003, 08:07 AM
more ammo = more practice = better accuracy =

you can get WHATEVER ELSE YOU NEED in a time of upheaval

MP-44
January 21, 2003, 08:59 AM
More ammo. If there is ever a major SHTF situation ammo will be able to used as currency.

Joe Demko
January 21, 2003, 09:37 AM
An excellent question. In order to best answer it, you have to assess the threat in your area.
1. Are you in spikey-haired mutant country or plague zombie country?
2. Are your neighbors tools of the conspiracy who have already had the cellular architecture of their brains altered by cell phone powered nanobots?
3. Is the NEA monitoring your phone?
4. Do you have adequate stores of cider vinegar?
5. Do you have a dune buggy with a harpoon launcher on the back?
6. Are you aware of the sinister significance of pancakes?
7. Do you envision your defense as a "last 15 minutes of The Road Warrior" battle or more of a "last 15 minutes of Zulu" battle?
8. Do you have enough scarves, headbands, and OD football pads for everyone in your party?

See, there is more to this than just the guns or ammo question.

Jack19
January 21, 2003, 09:41 AM
Along with everyone else, 1. common sense, 2. a good rifle, 3. survival skills and equipment. (see above posts for suggestions)

Your shotgun may take care of your 50 to 100 yard targets, providing you do your part, but it just doesn't reach far enough. Someone with an AR or a heavier caliber semi, or bolt gun, is going to far outrange you. Doom on you.

Get a rifle.

foghornl
January 21, 2003, 09:58 AM
Move to the house in between Tamara & "Runt" :neener:

Actually, as I see it, you are better off with a few guns and a whole lot of ammo for each, than 20 or 30 guns and 10 rounds for each.

I have many gallons of "bottled water" on hand, along with some food staples...peanut butter, crackers, canned soup & ham, etc. Plus at least 300 rounds for each caliber, except my shotgun...gotta get more buckshot, and some slugs.

Also have a full-size LP Gas grill, with 2 20-lb bottles, and one of those "grill-2-go" units, with about 20 of those 1-lb fuel cannisters.

Chris Rhines
January 21, 2003, 10:07 AM
If the SHTF, you need more mobility, communications equipment, food, water, and medical supplies, and the knowledge and skill to use all of the above. Guns and ammo are way down on the list.

- Chris

scotjute
January 21, 2003, 10:28 AM
I've yet to hear anyone mention "whiskey" as a stock up item.
It can disinfect wounds, sterilize utensils, disinfect water, serve as a pain killer, will be a big in-demand item that can be bartered for other things, and a little bit goes a long way (well sometimes). :)

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