in need of help


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remmag
January 23, 2010, 06:23 PM
hey everyone
take it easy , i am new and just getting started , and have a couple of questions i feel are very important
1 . i have aquired another loading manual and the 2 i have dont compare on the load i am trying to make, 45 auto 200 grain led rnfp bullets

lyman manual says starting load,
unique powder,6.0 starting grains max 7.5 grains and 1.235 oal

lee manual says
unique powder, 5.1 starting grains max 5.1 grains and 1.190 oal

i have loaded 100 rounds to the first (lyman) and have not shot any of them
here is why

after a few questions and alot of help from everyone and rfwobbly i took the barrel out of my gun and checked some rounds for fit
if i drop a factory copper plated round(round nose) in the chamber you can spin it easily, i also notice that it seats a little below (towards the barrel from the 2 ears that the rim of the case restst against
when i drop the reloaded rounds in it is difficult to spin it and it does not seat as deeply into the barrel . after marking on with magic marker and spinning it does not seem to be catching the riffling, i think but am not sure the led bullets have a much less gradual curve shape coming out of the mouth of the case, infact they show the same measurement a little way out of the case as the case. that leads me to thing (again i am not sure)that the led bullet is resting at the pooint where the chamber stops and the rifeling and barrel start
i did try to seat 1 bullet to the 1.190 that lee recommends and the same result

i know i have asked alot of questions and may be a pain in the a** but i really want to do this correct and keep all the parts of my gun and body assembled

thank you much for all of your help

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fractal7
January 23, 2010, 06:28 PM
Did you do any type of crimp with them? I think, and someone else can please correct me on this, that 45 ACP will stop based on the mouth of the case, so if its still flared out from seating the bullet that might be why its hard to spin.

remmag
January 23, 2010, 06:34 PM
yes i did do a slight crimp, i could try to re crimp alittle more

mongoose33
January 23, 2010, 07:52 PM
I'll bet you don't have enough taper crimp.

The .45 headspaces on the casemouth; if you don't remove enough of the casemouth expansion (belling) it'll interfere with the ability of the case to fully seat.

I suppose it could be the OAL, but I load LRN in my .45 (it's an XD-45) at 1.225 and I don't have any problems w/ the bullet touching the lands. (Yeah, I know, could be different and might be, but I'd bet on the crimp before the OAL being the problem).

I don't know if you make up dummy rounds or not (no primer, no powder), but that's the way to do it as you adjust things.

243winxb
January 23, 2010, 08:04 PM
What is the measured diameter of your lead bullets before loading??

remmag
January 23, 2010, 08:19 PM
at the very back .451 just in front of the case mouth once loaded .465. total cartridge length is 1.212
i did manage to load 2 dummy rounds that spun freely inside the barrel as the factory rounds did
one of the ones that sins good is .441 in front of the case mouth. the total cartridge length on that round is 1.229,

do you think i have some poor manufactured bullets

243winxb
January 23, 2010, 08:25 PM
The bearing surface of the bullet should be .452" If i understand you correctly, some of the bullets measure .465" when loaded. This is not measuring on top of the brass, but on the lead bullet. Then you have bad bullets that need to be sized. Very strange??

243winxb
January 23, 2010, 08:26 PM
Starting to think the bullets are make for a muzzle loader?

remmag
January 23, 2010, 08:29 PM
i aint got a clue, bought em at a gun show , they were labelled for 45 auto 200 grain

remmag
January 23, 2010, 09:47 PM
243
i am not sure what the bearing surface is but i got .462 right in front of the case on the lead, could i possibly be deforming the bullets some how,
i guess i can measure 1 before loading and after loading in the morning to tell

bds
January 23, 2010, 10:10 PM
Remmag,

Try sizing another case and see if that chambers well.

If it doesn't, then the problem maybe not enough sizing to fit the chamber (a quick check).

If the new sized case chambers well, then the problem might be not enough taper crimp to undo the bell flare.

Re-measure the bullet, case with a caliper to rule out any other issues.

Randy1911
January 23, 2010, 11:02 PM
RemMag

If you look at the front of the 45 ACP section of the manual, it will give you all the measurments of the cartridge. On the brass part of the case, right at the tip of the case, it should measure .469 -.471. The bearing surface pf tje bullet is the part that is on either side of the wax ring on the bullet. That should measure .452

remmag
January 23, 2010, 11:17 PM
i just measured the bearing surface on an unloaded bullet snd it is .450.5 , i may be doing something in the seating process , i will check the same bullet after loading this bullet in the morning

do you guys have any suggestions as to the difference in starting loads between the 2 manuals

Jesse Heywood
January 24, 2010, 12:23 AM
Alliantpowder.com shows 1.19 OAL with a max of 5.4 gr. Unique. I have a hard time going over the manufacturer's load, but I'm not an expert.

James2
January 24, 2010, 12:32 AM
On the loads. Notice that the Lee load is seating the bullet deeper. Seating deeper will raise the pressure. I think either load will be OK. Just use the suggested powder and seating depth given. I would not use the Lyman load and seat to the depth that Lee said.

Randy1911
January 24, 2010, 12:38 AM
The proper seating depth is based on the bullet. If you're not using the exact same bullet as they list in the manual, the seating depth is meaningless. The nose shape of the bullet will determine the proper depth. This is why you should always start at the minimum and work up watching for pressure signs.

243winxb
January 24, 2010, 10:38 AM
i just measured the bearing surface on an unloaded bullet and it is .450.5 This bullet is undersized (.4505"). You should buy some good bullets of the correct diameter .452" for lead. Alliant Unique @ 6.0 gr with a 200gr Lead bullet is OK for a starting load. Soft swaged bullets (Speer) should not be used for maximum loads. Cast or Jacketed bullets are needed for maximum loadings.

remmag
January 24, 2010, 02:53 PM
i am going to buy some bullets from missouri bullet co
thanks

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