New Taurus 990, but problem (I think)


PDA






doublebarrel
January 23, 2010, 09:50 PM
Just got my first new gun for the year 2010, a Taurus 990 4-inch stainless, 24 hours ago, from PSS. $379 + tax. Haven't fired it yet, but I think I noticed a problem. It works fine (dry fire test using empty cases) in SA, the cylinder locks up whenever the hammer is cocked. But when I pull the trigger very v-e-r-y slowly in DA, like from start pulling the trigger to hammer drop taking 5 to 10 seconds, for some chambers, the cylinder latch does not lock into the designated cylinder notch (hope I got these terms right)...

When I pull the trigger in DA, the latch goes down, the pawl comes up engages the ratchet, the cylinder starts turning, then the latch comes up, rubbing the cylinder as it turns. For some chambers, the cylinder will stop turning when the latch locks into the notch with an audible click, then hammer will drop. Perfect. For a few other chambers, the cylinder stops turning, but there is no click. After the hammer dropped, I kept the trigger depressed, I found that the cylinder was locked up by the latch when I tried to turn it by hand. So apparently the hammer impact rocked the cylinder and caused the latch to fall into the notch. But for yet some other chambers, the cylinder would stop turning, no click from the latch, hammer would drop, with trigger still all the way back, I could manually turn the cylinder some more, and hear the latch click into the notch...

I believe this means the chamber didn't line up with the bore. If I'd fire a live round with those chambers in DA, the bullet wouldn't be able to enter the barrel, and I'd have KB in my hand. I've only got two revolvers so far, both Rugers (SP101 and Redhawk). Both would lock up before the hammer drop in DA. The Redhawk is more pronounced, the latch will click in long before the hammer drop. I'd like to confirm with someone who's more knowledgeable with revolvers, that this is a serious problem, before I start calling Taurus on Monday...

Thanks!


the gun
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/taurus990.jpg

the pawl
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/pawl.jpg

the cylinder ratchet
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/ratchet.jpg

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The Lone Haranguer
January 25, 2010, 07:57 PM
Perhaps the magnification has something to do with it, but the extractor star seems to be poorly fitted, and there seems to be chewing or peening on the ratchet teeth. That would cause timing and lockup problems.

9x19sig
January 25, 2010, 08:11 PM
Just looking at the last two pictures reminds me why I will not buy a Taurus. Sloppy is probably even too conservative of a word to use.

jad0110
January 25, 2010, 10:43 PM
Perhaps the magnification has something to do with it, but the extractor star seems to be poorly fitted, and there seems to be chewing or peening on the ratchet teeth. That would cause timing and lockup problems.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. That is some REALLY rough finishing on the extractor star. Yikes.

halfded
January 25, 2010, 10:54 PM
Had the same problem with my 85UL. The extractor will only get worse with use.

Looks like a little trip to Florida is in order.

dom1104
January 25, 2010, 10:57 PM
Thats Taurus quality right there.

doublebarrel
January 26, 2010, 05:28 PM
Perhaps the magnification has something to do with it,

I used the Macro mode of my camera, tried to get all the details. I know Taurus is not the highly rated for workmanship/attention to detail/precision fine art beauty stuff. But so is Ruger, and some might that for Glock and others. I'd love to have a Smith 617 or 63, but for the $300 difference in price, if the Taurus can shoot just as well, I can live with the "birth marks" and pocket that chunk of saving :) Function is mandatory, style is optional. Too bad, this Taurus ain't like the Tracker 45ACP 4" that I had before, trouble free from the start...

Their customer service is pretty good, but for some reason, they don't tell you the goodies in the user manual. Like the 1-800 number (the manual gives a regular phone number), and the fact that they'd pay for shipping it back to them (the manual says you must prepay to ship the gun back). I learned all these on the Taurus forum. The rep I talked to was polite, authorized a FedEx pickup today for me right away, and told me the turnaround would be about 4 weeks. I'll post the result when I get it back...

3446
January 26, 2010, 08:53 PM
I've got a Taurus 990. It's been a real pleasure, and a lot of inexpensive fun. Hope your's works out.

BigO01
January 30, 2010, 01:08 AM
Why don't you take it out shooting before you start trying to find flaws with the gun ? With a 22 it certainly isnt going to have a KABOOM that will amount to much so grow a set and go to the range and shoot the thing that or take up a ladys completely safe hobby like sitting on your butt watching TV LOL .

doublebarrel
February 27, 2010, 03:05 PM
Ok, here is the update. I got the gun back last Thursday, 25th. Taurus never updated the repair status on their web site. Even right now, I enter the serial number and my zip code, the repair status will still say "Firearm arrived, waiting for repair". When Fedex called me on Wednesday and asked for someone to be at home to sign for the package, it took me a few seconds to realize it was my gun...

The gun came out of the box covered and dripping will oil (a sign they did work on it). The ratchet still has lots of tool mark, as you can see in the picture. But that's not important. The important thing is if they fixed the timing problem. Well, yes and no. They fixed 8 of 9 chambers. For the eight chambers, I tried DA, pulling the trigger really slowly; and SA, cocking the hammer slowly. The cylinder stop would engage every time before the hammer dropped, or before the hammer was fully cocked. For the one chamber, it wouldn't lock up even in SA, as seen in the video...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/newratchet.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/v/TqLVQ6Yld-Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&

(In case the video doesn't work, here's the Youtube URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqLVQ6Yld-Q)

Well, look like I'll have to call Taurus again on Monday...

doublebarrel
April 13, 2010, 05:38 AM
Received the gun back from Taurus 4/12/2010 around 9am. The extractor star looks much cleaner with fewer tool marks now. Alas, it took me all about ten minutes to find out that, the gun has exactly the same problem as before. One chamber out of all 9 holes, when cocked slowly in single action, the cylinder latch will not engage the notch. With hammer fully cocked, I can still spin the cylinder back to the previous notch, or forward just a bit to make the latch click in. Almost four months now since I purchased it, and after going back to the factory twice, it'd still need to make one more trip...

hemiram
April 13, 2010, 06:31 AM
Sounds like my Taurus experiences. I won't be buying anything they make again, unless it's a used gun I have shot myself and I know works. I won't use it for anything other than a play toy, until it proves itself to be dependable. Funny thing, people say bad stuff about Astra, yet I never had, and don't know anyone who ever had any problem with one.

Lakeshore
April 13, 2010, 11:34 AM
Mine too. A Mod. 941 I acquired awhile back had cylinder binding issues right out of the box. Fortunately they were able to fix it, but I won't be buying another Taurus.

doublebarrel I believe at this point I'd ask Taurus to replace the gun since they haven't corrected the problem after two tries.

doublebarrel
April 14, 2010, 06:30 AM
Yeah, I know. If they offer me a replacement I sure will accept that. But since Taurus is my only option to get it fixed, for free, as long as they are still trying to make it right, I'll just have to wait then...

mugsie
April 14, 2010, 07:13 AM
I owned two Taurus's (Tauri?), an 85UL in 38 and a Tracker in 357. Both had to go back to the factory for the same exact problem you described here. Both came back fixed. I still own the Tracker - one of the most accurate 357's I have. I sold the 85 for a S&W 641, which is my everyday carry gun (cept when I carry the LCP). I was a little too hesitant to risk my life to the 85 since it had that problem, although after literally hundreds of rounds out the barrel it worked flawless after repair. Still, in the back of my mind I always wondered.

Tarus makes a decent gun, however the quality is hit or miss (no pun intended). We're doing their quality control for them during live fire, which isn't the way it's supposed to work. Their guns are accurate, but the frustration levels are a little too high. Customer service took several phone calls too, before I ever got anyone who wanted to help me. Even when they were returned, no one would tell me what was done other to say on the Tracker they replaced the missing part. Missing part?! I bought it new! What missing part? Sorry, it only says here replaced missing part.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.....

Good luck with yours - I hope it works out well for you.

doublebarrel
May 29, 2010, 08:12 AM
The final chapter, the conclusion of my Taurus repair experience. I received my Tracker 990 yesterday (5/26) morning by Fedex from Taurus, after I sent it back in the third time in middle of April. This time, they've fixed it right. Right after I got it, I inserted 9 empty cases, and tested it over and over. Singe action, double action... no matter how slow I pulled the trigger or cocked the hammer, the cylinder locked up good...

The gun was cover in oil again (of course). The repair slip said that they'd fixed the "forend cap". I searched everywhere but can't find the term. Also, they apparently test fired this gun. The gun looked clean enough but there were some residue in each chamber. When loading the empties, I found that the chambers were really tight. All the empty casings required some effort to push them in. Tried some live ammo and they slipped in alright. The DA trigger was very heavy. So heavy that after the testing, my trigger finger was sore...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/990%20fixed/1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/990%20fixed/2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/990%20fixed/3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/990%20fixed/4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/990%20fixed/5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/990%20fixed/5a.jpg

JR47
May 29, 2010, 08:21 AM
So, after all of this, have you actually fired the gun yet?

I'd also suggest that you take a few Macro shots of other revolvers in current production, as well. Despite the blather about "quality", most look little, if any, better.

There was a thread on a 1911 Board last year that featured a Springfield 1911. There was an apparent blemish on the frame, and, even though the poster mentioned that it was a drop of oil, the finely tuned comments bashed SA for letting the gun go with such an obvious flaw. Heard the same crap about "quality" there, too.

Most firearms, even many "custom shop" guns look pretty cheap under a 10X inspection tool, much less 100X. You'd think that you were looking at the surface of the moon.

doublebarrel
May 30, 2010, 01:53 PM
Hi, here's an update of the gun from its first range trip to Wilbur Wright yesterday. I shot about 600 rounds (one 500rd box of Winchester XpertHV, and two boxes of new Federal $1.50 per 50rd from Walmart. Unlike the 550rd Federal bulk pack, this is not copper coated) among the three rimfires that I got: 10/22, Buckmark Camper, and the Taurus. I shot more ammo with the Taurus, about 300 to 400 rounds on it. It was fun to shoot, even though I couldn't hit much of anything at that distance (25yd?), and the heavy DA trigger wasn't that noticeable when I'm pulling the trigger as fast as I could (after do a couple times in DA, it did make my finger tired)...

One little annoying thing I noticed (besides the bad sun burn I got from the coverless range at Wilbur), was that when firing, the revolver emitted something in the air, some small particles within the cloud of smoke. With the help of a little breeze, it flew back in my face and burned me. It was like the powder was still burning while it was flying back at me, though I never saw any red hot burning particles. I nver had this happened to me with semiautos...

The bigger problem I noticed, was after I cleaned it (took me forever cleaning this. It looked like the patches would never come out clean), I noticed some metal shavings on the towel (not sure at which point of the cleaning process they came out), and worse, it had flame cutting! (yeah, I looked up on the net and learned this term). I learned that flame cutting happened on those S&W Scandium revolvers, that Smith had to put in a small steel piece above the gap between the cylinder and forcing cone, but those guns are 357mag. This is a 22! See pics...

I don't think the weak little 22 ammo should be causing this kind of damage to the frame, unless the frame is made of pot metal "stainless steel". Not sure if I should call Taurus again...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/990%20fixed/5-30.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/990%20fixed/5-302.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/doublebarrel/taurus/990%20fixed/5-303.jpg

DMZ
May 30, 2010, 03:12 PM
Are those metal slivers lead? It looks like lead is being deposited on the exterior of the forcing cone.

I mention this because I have a Taurus Model 94 (9 shot .22LR) in FL, for repair, that would spit lead out the left side of the cylinder gap and it would accumulate on the left side of the forcing cone. The chambers were not lining up properly with the barrel.

I too felt powder fragments on the left side of my face when I fired. When I got back from the range, I used a pin to pick the lead slivers off the frame.

beeenbag
May 30, 2010, 03:37 PM
I believe after all of that I would clean it up take it to a gun show or flea market and trade it off without ever looking back.

doublebarrel
May 31, 2010, 07:42 AM
I'm not sure if they were lead (seemed to be pretty soft when I picked them up). I used cotton patches and nylon brush to clean the area around the forcing cone, didn't try anything metal as I didn't want scratch anything. Maybe I should try to scrape them with something more rigid and see if there really is a cut, or just some lead deposit... Thanks!

Are those metal slivers lead? It looks like lead is being deposited on the exterior of the forcing cone.

I mention this because I have a Taurus Model 94 (9 shot .22LR) in FL, for repair, that would spit lead out the left side of the cylinder gap and it would accumulate on the left side of the forcing cone. The chambers were not lining up properly with the barrel.

I too felt powder fragments on the left side of my face when I fired. When I got back from the range, I used a pin to pick the lead slivers off the frame.

EMC45
May 31, 2010, 08:28 AM
You have some lead built up there. I think the "flame cutting" you are seeing is the build up of lead being cut and not the frame. IF that makes any sense....Also I have had several 22 revolvers and have shot many of them from various manufacturers, most will turn your hand gray/black and some will even spit lead from the forcing cone area. I do realize this has been back to Taurus 3 times......

Old Shooter
May 31, 2010, 08:40 AM
A friend of mine had a Taurus, years ago, that had a cylinder that was seriously out of time and besides not being able to hit anything with it the bullets key-holed and it spit lead about the same way yours is doing now. If I remember correctly he took it back to the dealer and traded it for something else.

You might want to consider trading that Taurus for a Smith & Wesson, sell that camera and live a more relaxing life. :)

MCgunner
May 31, 2010, 11:11 AM
:rolleyes:

Send it back, they'll even pay the shipping both ways.

Jackal
May 31, 2010, 12:18 PM
Sad to hear your troubles. I have had over a dozen Taurus handguns, revolvers and auto's. I have never had a single problem with any of them. They all functioned perfectly (except for one slightly tight cylinder in a model 445, but better tight than loose). I have had Ruger's and S&W's toss junk at me, either lead or powder. I think its just the way of the revolver. Do I currently own any Taurus's? Nope. But if I find a deal on one, I wouldnt pass it up.

Erik M
May 31, 2010, 10:11 PM
I have owned a model 82 .38, and I have a model 44c right now. I figure If I buy a taurus that is going to blow up in my face its when I shoot some 260+ grain hard cast stuff out of that .44 mag. I found a NIB ultra-lite titanium 85 for 270 out the door at my local shop. i wish everyone got as much enjoyment out of Taurus guns as I do.

doublebarrel
June 2, 2010, 07:55 AM
Well, don't have time now but will try to find out if the "groove" can be removed. Then I'll try shooting some more...

gearchecker
June 2, 2010, 07:42 PM
doublebarrel,
Use a bronze or brass brush to clean the leading out of the frame where it looks like flame cutting. Use CLP to soak the leading with. Use a really wet tipped Q-tip or cotton swab to soak it. Let it soak fro 4 or 5 minutes and then brush it away. It may take a couple 2 or 3 tries to get it all off, but it will work to remove any leading.
After all the gunpowder and lead or removed you'll know if you're having any issue with flame cutting. A little flame cutting won't hurt anything and it usually stops after a few trips to the range. Flame cutting is caused from hot gunpowder burning outside of the casing, and flashing thru the cylinder gap. You might need to switch ammo if it continues to be problematic.
I tell just about everybody to try using a more expensive .22 ammo like the CCI Mini Mags. If you're only going to use it for target practice or plinking you might like using CCI CB shorts (just a thought). It'll cost more to shoot quality ammo, but many of the problems a resolved by shooting it too. Even good quality .22 ammo is cheap in the long run, so why not treat yourself to the best available. It usually helps with accuracy as well.

Drail
June 2, 2010, 07:55 PM
That is the worst looking cylinder ratchet I have ever seen. It needs to be replaced by the factory and the factory needs to replace their cutting tools before they start getting that dull. I used to work at a shop years ago and we sold a lot of Taurus products and never had one come back with a complaint. Looks like things have gone downhill for Taurus.

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