So, how good ARE you.........really ?


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David E
January 24, 2010, 02:37 PM
Now, I realize that nearly everyone online is an expert shot and everything, but how good are YOU?

Let's do this:

(Using your regular carry gun and carry method)

First drill: A sheet of typing paper at 5 yds, either mounted on a piece of cardboard or in the center of an IPSC or IDPA target.

Starting from concealment, hands at sides, how fast can you draw and put FIVE shots on the sheet of paper?

Second drill: About 8-10 inches above the full sheet of paper, put a sheet of typing paper folded into 4th's. At signal, draw, fire five into the full sheet, reload, put TWO into the folded sheet (simulating a failure to stop/head shot)

All shots must be on the respective paper to count.


What do you think a "good" time would be for these drills?

How fast do you think you can do them?


Any other "down and dirty" defensive drill ideas requiring 10 rds or less that can be done on any range are welcome.

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Eightball
January 24, 2010, 04:02 PM
how good are YOU?

Nowhere near where I should be, but better than many shooters my age (which really isn't saying too much). Can always use improvement, though.

wow6599
January 24, 2010, 04:47 PM
I'm not as good as I would like to be with a handgun.....a rifle though :D

I have never met any of the millions of people on the internet who can make "one ragged hole at 25 yards" with their Glock 22 or their S&W 686. :rolleyes:

NMGonzo
January 24, 2010, 04:52 PM
Depends on what I am carrying and how I am dressed.

Claude Clay
January 24, 2010, 04:58 PM
wow-- you are invited to my club any Friday
there were 9 members last Fri and 3 of us as a foolie did just that; with a G, P and a kimber gold match. 50 shots each and one flyer each for the glock & H&K. if it hadn't been a race, I'm thinking there would have been no flyers. most of us do 3 plate Mozambique's in 2.2 or less.
i wonder why so many think it is so hard?

answer to the question 5 shots in under 2 seconds--1.21 and .17 splits is my average
havent tried folding paper but 3 plates, dbl tap is under 2.3; add a reload and call it 3 seconds.
i'll try us this fri and get back

Enachos
January 24, 2010, 05:08 PM
I'm definitely not the best shot lol but I'm trying and I'm comfortable with where I'm at!

David E
January 24, 2010, 05:13 PM
answer to the question 5 shots in under 2 seconds--1.21 and .17 splits is my average
havent tried folding paper but 3 plates, dbl tap is under 2.3; add a reload and call it 3 seconds.
i'll try us this fri and get back

Remember, it's from concealment, hands at sides, reacting to the beep.

I look forward to learning of yours results!

jcwit
January 24, 2010, 06:33 PM
I make a big enough fool of myself without trying this!

But is saying this, I bet anyone will run if I have to start shooting at them whether I hit them or not.

The Bushmaster
January 24, 2010, 06:49 PM
Better then most and not as good as some...;)

Fishbait
January 24, 2010, 07:01 PM
I dont work that fast and dont push that many shots. Slow and easy does it.

1 inch more or less at 7 yards and two or three inches at 15 yards.

An old Marine once told me there is always someone bigger, faster and badder than you.

With that in mind, I am content with my own reliability for drawing CCW and hitting target. I am not a fast person.

David E
January 24, 2010, 07:18 PM
Slow and easy does it.

It does ???

Defending your life is a competitive activity and there is definitely a time factor at work: You're trying to stop/kill him BEFORE HE KILLS YOU, so he's movtivated, as well.

"Slow and easy" gets you killed if you can't fire your first shot in time to do any good.

Fishbait
January 24, 2010, 07:27 PM
Here is my definition of slow and easy.

http://www.kuci.org/~dany/firearms/all_drills.html

I try to contain myself from going to fast at the range is what I meant by slow and easy.

I also work through the natural fear/flight that can freeze you up if you let it. If it is all or nothing as against a knifer in a city alley, then it's going to be fast and over one way or the other.

Cheers.

SharpsDressedMan
January 24, 2010, 07:47 PM
I'll have to give this a try. They have a cute little 5 yard range at my shooting range (next to the 25). I hardly even shoot on the side range....just picke up the leftover brass there.....

blkbrd666
January 24, 2010, 07:52 PM
Know the guy who shoots the 12 shots from a S&W revolver in 2.9 seconds, Jerry Miculek? Well, I'm nowhere near that fast. :D

Eightball
January 24, 2010, 08:32 PM
I have never met any of the millions of people on the internet who can make "one ragged hole at 25 yards" with their Glock 22 or their S&W 686. Managed to do that once with my 620, shooting handloaded .38 LWC rounds, on single-action, many years ago.

Been trying to to it again since :uhoh:

bdb benzino
January 24, 2010, 09:30 PM
I am not too bad with full size auto's( 1911's or CZ style auto's). I would say ok with my Kahr CC style pistols, but with snubnose revolvers its good they are considered 7yd's- belly gun cause they are a bit more difficult for me at longer distances (although I love them for CC).

HGUNHNTR
January 24, 2010, 09:36 PM
I'm pretty darned good with a HG, OK with a rifle, and average at best with a SG........uh probably below average :)

Muddflap
January 24, 2010, 09:45 PM
I shoot IDPA, and sometimes if there's not enough time to run another stage, but it's too early to quit, we set up an IDPA silhouette, and play a real quick game.

You get 6 rounds. The target is 3 to 4 yards out. You start with the gun in the holster, and facing away from the target. When the beeper goes off, you have to turn, draw your firearm, put 4 shots center of mass, and 2 to the head. 3.26 was the best. Most of the regulars were in the 4's.

MCgunner
January 24, 2010, 10:33 PM
I've always been able to win local competitions, but regional guys in IDPA, I shot "slow expert" times and had lots of competition. The master class guys awe me. There were several in a club I used to shoot with. I was always pretty fast from leather and very accurate, but I never got reloading speed down, my Achilles heal. I'd never probably be able to make master class. Oh, maybe, if I practiced every day and burned LOTS of ammo and dedicated myself totally to it. Never say never, but I was never wanting to put that much time into it and I'd been either reloading or shooting all the time and spending lots of money on primers and powder and, well, you know. :D I practiced as much as I could. That's when I got a Dillon progressive. I started out as a Sharpshooter, so I advanced one class in about 3 years. LOL, not too great, but when I feel down on myself, I just go to a local shoot, big fish in a little pond. :D

I never even bought a timer, so I can't quantify much of anything for this post. I ain't all THAT fast compared to a lot of good shooters, but I can defend myself, I'm confident in that. That's really all that matters to me.

David E
January 24, 2010, 10:41 PM
You get 6 rounds. The target is 3 to 4 yards out. You start with the gun in the holster, and facing away from the target. When the beeper goes off, you have to turn, draw your firearm, put 4 shots center of mass, and 2 to the head. 3.26 was the best. Most of the regulars were in the 4's.

Sounds like a good drill. To clarify: Facing "away" how? Uprange? 90 degrees to the side? Is it from concealment? Hands up or down? I may give this a try next time at the range.

S&Wfan
January 24, 2010, 10:54 PM
I'll try it soon.

I hold a record at one club for a "fast draw" competition that starts with thumbs touching both earmuffs. IPSC target is six feet. My record is .78 seconds and usually I'm in the mid to low 80s with my favorite revolver . . . a chopped, 3 1 1/4" S&W 25-2 in .45ACP. The holster is a plain old Bianchi Cyclone II nylon holster from the 1980s with a thumb strap (but strap unsnapped but in position otherwise).

In bowling pin competitions I've cleared six pin tables (@ 10 yards) in the mid 3 second range. Most splits at ten yards on pins run about a second to knock over the first pin and about 2.5 seconds to finish running the table.

Based on your hand's down draw, which is infinitely easier and faster, and at the shorter distances for the splits, probably about 2.7-3.1 seconds would seem about right.

With a rimfire handgun it would be faster of course.

In one pin match competition once for .22LR handguns, I rolled six pins (10 yards) in 2.20 seconds (six rounds). Blazing fast and I've never been able to duplicate it. Another shooter had an incredible time and I just decided to roll the dice.

Basically I was shooting as fast as I could pull the trigger and the front sight would light right on the center mass of the next pin just as the next round went off. We were all stunned. Great memories. (I won't tell you about the BAD days in competitions!!!);)

Speed requires accuracy that is improved over time via lots and lots of serious practice . . . and skills fall off if you lay off any. This time of the year, most folks are pretty rusty.

Gunfighter123
January 25, 2010, 01:19 AM
So, how good ARE you.........really ?

Better then some BUT not as good as others !!!

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Jailbird123/DSC01752.jpg

David E
January 25, 2010, 01:47 AM
So, in what discipline did you win those ?

scythefwd
January 25, 2010, 02:52 AM
Dave, I open carry, and only have 5 shots. Make that 3 and two? Well, right now I am looking for a good holster to open carry. My last open carry piece got traded for my new one and the old holster doesn't fit. I'm not worried about reloading... revolvers don't fail to feed or eject, so I only have to worry about failure to go bang.

scythefwd
January 25, 2010, 03:00 AM
double tap

Muddflap
January 25, 2010, 06:10 AM
Sounds like a good drill. To clarify: Facing "away" how? Uprange? 90 degrees to the side? Is it from concealment? Hands up or down? I may give this a try next time at the range.

You're standing with your back to the target, hands up, gun holstered, and concealed.

RebelRabbi
January 25, 2010, 06:12 AM
Let's add three armed felons trying to kill you? Changes the game don't it?

David E
January 25, 2010, 11:52 AM
Let's add three armed felons trying to kill you? Changes the game don't it?

Sure does !

Do you have a drill that addresses this?

By fortuitous happenstance, I did a 3-target drill last week.

Here was the target arrangement set at 5 yds:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/Sooper1/Shooting%20Related%20Things/3targets.jpg

Starting with hand on gun, just as I might well do if I was able and thought I had to draw in the next micro-second. The goal was, reacting to the signal, to draw and fire ONE shot on EACH of the 3 targets.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/Sooper1/Shooting%20Related%20Things/DSCF0005.jpg

The first gun used was a S&W Model 442 snubnose, loaded with 158 grain LSWCHP +P. My best run was this:

.65
.27
.25
------
1.18

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/Sooper1/Shooting%20Related%20Things/DSCF0014.jpg

Changing to a 1911 Govt chambered in .40 using factory ammo, I did the one shot on each of the 3 targets:

.59
.21
.16
------
.96


Still using the 1911 in .40, starting with GUN IN HOLSTER, HANDS AT SIDES (not touching gun) I then did one shot each, reload, one shot each:

.82
.24
.18
1.16
.22
.16
------
2.78 total time.

swiftak
January 25, 2010, 12:19 PM
As a pistol shooter, I'm a plinker. So I'm probably an average shot. Well maybe a little better than that, I've been shooting a handgun for 40 years. With a rifle I think I'm probably a little better than average.

Gelgoog
January 25, 2010, 01:48 PM
I am so good that I can't be bothered to show proof of it :D

Gunfighter123
January 25, 2010, 02:33 PM
So, in what discipline did you win those ?

I've been shooting Action/Combat type matches for over 20 years, IPSC , IDPA , 3 Gun ,
LR/Sniper , Steel Challenge , Bowling Pin , and SASS/Cowboy.

David E
January 25, 2010, 03:34 PM
I've been shooting Action/Combat type matches for over 20 years, IPSC , IDPA , 3 Gun ,
LR/Sniper , Steel Challenge , Bowling Pin , and SASS/Cowboy.

Cool !

I must ask.....are you classified? What's the highest award you've won? (State, Regional or National)

bad_aim_billy
January 25, 2010, 03:54 PM
Do I really even have to answer this?

Gunfighter123
January 25, 2010, 04:39 PM
I must ask.....are you classified? What's the highest award you've won? (State, Regional or National)

My USPSA number is = L937 ---- I won the State "B" class in around 1987 --- I was a "A" Unlimited , Stock , and Revolver class shooter before they had "Master" or "GrandMaster " ----- I stopped/slowed down competiting in IPSC around 1997 , I started to REALLY get into Steel Challenge/Bowling Pin/LR Rifle for a few years and then started competeing in SASS/Cowboy Action.

Due to "old age" and some injury , I found that I could not really compete anymore with the new crop of Young Guns in "Track & Field " action shooting ---- my draw is still fast , my split times are good , etc. --- I just can't run & gun like I did in my 20s/30s/40s

Right now , I am only classified in Revolver and all my old "A" class classified matches have expired from USPSA database---- still love shooting my S&W 610 and I may get classified in Production when the outdoor season starts up in Spring.

usmc1371
January 26, 2010, 06:06 PM
Gunfighter123

Any one who can be competitive in that many diffrent compititions is what I would call better than "avarage".

I shot a couple IPSC matches in Yuma and thought I was pretty quick, then I drove up to Lake Havasu and shot against a bunch of old retired guys, what an eye opener. Turns out it doesn't matter how fast you move if the guys you are shooting against never miss. The older fellow with the timer actuly asked me to slow down cause he was having a hard time keeping up. Then he went on to kick my ass at a nice slow ish pace.

Ankeny
January 26, 2010, 10:22 PM
Even in my IPSC/USPSA prime I wasn't as fast as a lot of the Internet crowd. Here's a short video clip of a Mozambique on a cold, windy, Wyoming day. I was so cold I just wanted to go home. I hit the target but missed the holster. Gun is a Les Baer single stack 1911. Holster is a Blade-Tech. Typical time is around 1.6 seconds from concealment and more like 1.2-1.3 open carry. Mozambique (http://www.rtconnect.net/~rankeny/****.wmv) Here's another drill from a few years back: Two each on three targets. (http://www.rtconnect.net/~rankeny/2times3.WMV)

David E
January 28, 2010, 08:32 PM
Ron,

Good shooting, of course, but then again, you're a GM as I recall.

I maintain that any "C" class or "Marksman" is "good" compared to the gunowners at large. Anything higher is, well, better.

f4t9r
January 28, 2010, 08:37 PM
not very good at all

Joshua M.
January 29, 2010, 07:46 AM
I ain't as good as I once was, but I am as good once as I ever was;)...If I tried that drill, I would prolly shoot my foot, or or worse...:(

Just One Shot
January 29, 2010, 08:14 AM
Hopefully I'm good enough to survive against an armed assailant! :o Shooting paper is one thing, it's a whole different story when you have to deal with an actual threat and the adrenaline rush that comes along with it.

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