Moving to NY/MA/CA etc. threads...


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Prince Yamato
January 24, 2010, 06:10 PM
Ok, here's my rant...

Everytime a thread pops up about someone moving to a "ban state", 10 people chime in with, "I wouldn't live there", "don't move", "try living in [state unrelated to question asked]".

STOP

By now, 99% of the gun owners who have internet access know that MA, NJ, NY, CA, etc. are not super-friendly to gun owners. Instead of extolling the negatives about a particular state ad nauseum, how about helping the OPs out? The amount of misinformation out there concerning states like NY and MA is rather staggering. The worst part is people keep reposting the same misinformation. Instead of looking for ways to help the OPs, the majority of the threads get eaten up with "let's dump on a particular state" posts. STOP

So starting today, I'd like to ask you all for one thing: the next time you see one of these threads, try and be constructive. Post relevant links to state laws. Post about legal loopholes in state laws. Post links to other sites featuring articles with people in the same situation.

Thank you... rant off...

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EddieNFL
January 24, 2010, 06:18 PM
Anyone seeking legal advice here is asking for trouble.

I'll leave MA, NJ and NY alone, but CA is fair game. :evil:

JoeShmoe
January 24, 2010, 07:07 PM
Ok, here's my rant...

Everytime a thread pops up about someone moving to a "ban state", 10 people chime in with, "I wouldn't live there", "don't move", "try living in [state unrelated to question asked]".

STOP

By now, 99% of the gun owners who have internet access know that MA, NJ, NY, CA, etc. are not super-friendly to gun owners. Instead of extolling the negatives about a particular state ad nauseum, how about helping the OPs out? The amount of misinformation out there concerning states like NY and MA is rather staggering. The worst part is people keep reposting the same misinformation. Instead of looking for ways to help the OPs, the majority of the threads get eaten up with "let's dump on a particular state" posts. STOP

So starting today, I'd like to ask you all for one thing: the next time you see one of these threads, try and be constructive. Post relevant links to state laws. Post about legal loopholes in state laws. Post links to other sites featuring articles with people in the same situation.

Thank you... rant off...
Thank you. Especially since you're from TX.

ronbuick
January 24, 2010, 07:18 PM
why should we leave them alone, maybe the people will elect folks that believe in the
2nd amendment, do you really beleive the bad guys or whatever you would like to call them are going to go along with these laws, does anyone know the number of crimes committed by criminals with guns in those states, and how many were committed by law abiding citizens?? someone that lives their must know, it would be nice to see those figures, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, or you can just sit back and do nothing, just my 2 cents, you come back from a combat zone that is ok, until you get home, so why leave your family and friends if you live in one of those states, they send you to a combat armed to the teeth to fight for them, and them is the politicals, then you come home to this, go figure.
Ron

Alex23
January 24, 2010, 07:35 PM
What he said ^^^

Criminals or, or even you, can lay your hands on all kinds of hardware if you make a small effort.

Outlawing so called high-cap mags, so called assault weapons, requiring licenses for law-abiding citizens only impacts one group - law-abiding citizens. I don't know about you but I am not really all that worried about being mugged by a CHL holder. I am slightly more concerned about being mugged by a criminal.

As he said, people should be lobbying their legislators and helping them to get their heads straight.

GunsAmerica Fan
January 24, 2010, 07:35 PM
I do remember finding loophole in Mass about moving there with "ban list" rifles. It said clearly that you could. Then, through the grapevine, I heard that there was a "rule" that you couldn't sell more than n a year if you moved there (idr what n was). Never found it in the statutes. I also tried to join a gun club and they wouldn't let me without an FID card. But according to the statute I did find, you didn't need one. It was a mess. In the end I high tailed it outa there for florida. I think that the legislators of feel good legislation don't really care what it says, or that it is clear. They just want the headline and they move on to their next scam on we the people.

kingpin008
January 24, 2010, 07:47 PM
why should we leave them alone?

Maybe because we're your contrymen and fellow gun owners? Or how about because telling us to "MOVE OUTTA THERE, HURR HURR!" isn't at all helping the problem.

Seriously, those of us who live in non-2A friendly states aren't ignorant of that fact, and believe it or not, we don't enjoy it. However, moving away solves nothing, even if it were an option (which for many of us, it isn't).

Also, those of us who live in these states are the ones who are fighting the HARDEST to win the fight for our side. I'm an NRA member, and let me tell you, I've gotten more done to advance our fight by working with local groups here in MD to make sure that our side is heard. It's because of me and thousands of other committed Marylanders that the proposed AWB that our local politicians have been trying to enact for the past half-decade has FAILED each and every time, and why we're starting to get a lot more public awareness regarding the lack of pro-CCW laws in this state. Little groups are getting the job done, all over this country - sometimes with the help of the big boys, but often on our own.

So rather than doing nothing to support us and encourage us to keep fighting, how about you just keep quiet?

Prince Yamato
January 24, 2010, 08:40 PM
Maybe because we're your countrymen and fellow gun owners?

Exactly Kingpin!

why should we leave them alone, maybe the people will elect folks that believe in the
2nd amendment

Because I'm pretty sure that the pro-gun people vote for pro-gun politicians. It's just that the majority vote for someone who isn't pro-gun.

That's another tired old argument- that somehow the pro-gun people in these states "elected" the anti-gun politicians. By that level of thinking, I should blame all of you guys for Obama winning. Why do we blame fellow gun owners for something they tried to prevent? I'm pretty sure there are a number of people in NYC who would like NFA weapons, who didn't vote for Charles Schumer.

SpotlightRanger
January 24, 2010, 08:41 PM
By now, 99% of the gun owners who have internet access know that MA, NJ, NY, CA, etc. are not super-friendly to gun owners.

Yeah and don't forget about MD and IL either. Now that you think about it MI isn't so hot with their mandatory registration.

Or maybe the mods could sticky these in the legal forum instead of rants?

http://www.opencarry.org/

http://www.concealcarry.org/

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/

Tamlin
January 24, 2010, 10:42 PM
I'm feeling the OP's rant. I recently moved to CA from AZ. I didn't move here for the better gun laws - I moved for my career and family. THAT'S what I was thinking, to all of those who asked me when I mentioned it in various posts. Does it suck being a gun owner in CA? Yes. Did I want to trade AZ's friendly gun laws for CA's? He!! no. But I'm here, and now I'm a registered voter. I plan to do my part.

ArmedLiberal
January 25, 2010, 10:20 AM
Welcome to California Tamlin.

If you haven't found it already, here is the greatest bunch of people fighting for the restoration of 2nd Amendment Rights in California. CalGuns.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php

They wrestled the CA DOJ through the backdoor loopholes of the draconian AW laws that now allow "Off List Lower" versions of the Evil Black Rifle.

Now CalGuns is aiming at the "Not Unsafe Handgun List" of handguns approved for sale in CA as well as the ridiculous CCW laws which presently give approval of CCW licenses solely to the discretion of County Sheriffs.

It's exciting times we live in. The fight for Gun Rights is alive and growing in California.

Whitewolf 508
January 25, 2010, 12:51 PM
I can understand why people in NYC have something to complain about.

I goy my CCW permit in 1980. The wait was only 60 days and that was because of an FBI delay in processing the prints. I got a full carry permit with very little issue . There are things I like about the system here:

1. No required course.
2. Lifetime permit
3. No restrictions on where you can caryy except schools
4. Neat plastic picture ID card
5. No annual fee
6. No requirement to advise police that you are carrying.
7. High caps are grandfathered

Please remember that NY state is not the same as New York City.

hso
January 25, 2010, 01:18 PM
why should we leave them alone

Because THR members are already 2A advocates and busting their chops is pointless.

Would it be better if we pilloried every THR member that didn't "vote their conscience with their feet" by moving to California so we could shift the voting balance towards 2A?

Perhaps we should slam every 2A advocate in NY for staying and fighting for their rights instead of moving to Alaska?

Easy to toss stones, not so easy to have a good aim.

TT
January 25, 2010, 01:34 PM
How about Blue State apologists STOP trying to tell the rest of us what we can and canít say? Jeez, THR already has a ban against saying anything uncomplimentary about Democrats, we donít need any more political correctness. :rolleyes:

Justin
January 25, 2010, 01:41 PM
Yes, because as we all know, pointless internet name calling is so productive.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29698&d=1128794076

Carne Frio
January 25, 2010, 01:59 PM
Yes, please, we have enough people here in Alaska already.
If you don't like the laws where you live, change them. I
moved here because I wanted to live here, not as a refugee
from another state. Remember it can get to minus 40F at
anytime from October through March and stuff can be more
expensive here. And even within the city limits of our largest
city a grizzly and or moose can end your life. We also have
dangerous roads and many drunk drivers. Come to visit in
the summer, bring lots of money, have a good time, but you
should remember that winter always comes back, no matter
what AL Gore says.

kingpin008
January 25, 2010, 02:07 PM
"Blue State Apologists"?

Gimme a break. I'm no more "apologizing" for my state's gun laws than I am the King of England.

In fact, not only am I (and every grassroots 2A activist in unfriendly states) unhappy with our laws, we're actively fighting against them!

So please, think a little bit before you post. Those of us who you're so quick to condemn are fighting for ALL of us, in the places where the stakes are highest.

rmfnla
January 25, 2010, 02:26 PM
What's ironic about California's aversion to the 2nd Ammendment is the number of firearms innovations that came from this state.

Pachmeyer and Weatherby are two that come to mind but I know there are more.

I guess CA's golden age of innovation was yet another casualty of the era of political correctness...

lowracer
January 25, 2010, 05:46 PM
Relocated from CA back home to TX last spring due to layoff.

Very impressed while living there to see how the Calguns folks were fighting the insane gun laws and shipping legally-configured black rifles in by the truckload. So I formed a company to manufacture and market products to help them keep their rifles legal. Because every black rifle we ship into CA makes a socialist legislator wet their pants. Every 2A minded person who can afford to move there is one more to help vote the nuts out.

TT
January 25, 2010, 06:24 PM
legally-configured black rifles

'Legally-configured' meaning 'neutered as per the California legislature's instructions'.:rolleyes:

Every 2A minded person who can afford to move there is one more to help vote the nuts out.
Every 2A-minded person who moves to California is just another guy who is going to lose his RKBA, and for no reason- youíll never get enough gunners to outnumber the gun-haters in LA and the SF Bay Area. Any positive change in California's firearms law will only come through judicial action, and the legislature will do whatever they can to nullify the impact of any pro-gun court ruling (a la DCís response to Heller). The guys who are warning potential immigrants to CA are doing the right thing; the guys blowing sunshine about how they are winning in CA are just dragging other gunners into the tar pit.

Shadow Man
January 25, 2010, 06:40 PM
Every 2A-minded person who moves to California is just another guy who is going to lose his RKBA, and for no reason- you’ll never get enough gunners to outnumber the gun-haters in LA and the SF Bay Area. Any positive change in California's firearms law will only come through judicial action, and the legislature will do whatever they can to nullify the impact of any pro-gun court ruling (a la DC’s response to Heller). The guys who are warning potential immigrants to CA are doing the right thing; the guys blowing sunshine about how they are winning in CA are just dragging other gunners into the tar pit.

So instead of fighting a (possibly) loosing fight we should simply wring our hands and bemoan the sad state of affairs in front of us? I'd rather fight to regain my full rights in a state like CA than sit back and do nothing until it comes to my state and realize that I have in fact lost ground, and now am faced with a long uphill struggle, a direct result of my complacency.

Remember, many of us in the other 49 states are one politician away from looking like CA.

THE DARK KNIGHT
January 25, 2010, 06:52 PM
why should we leave them alone, maybe the people will elect folks that believe in the
2nd amendment, do you really beleive the bad guys or whatever you would like to call them are going to go along with these laws, does anyone know the number of crimes committed by criminals with guns in those states, and how many were committed by law abiding citizens?? someone that lives their must know, it would be nice to see those figures, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, or you can just sit back and do nothing, just my 2 cents, you come back from a combat zone that is ok, until you get home, so why leave your family and friends if you live in one of those states, they send you to a combat armed to the teeth to fight for them, and them is the politicals, then you come home to this, go figure.

It is not that easy. If it was, I'd have whatever guns I wanted to own.

States like NJ have very unique problems because the demographic has the second lowest rate of gun ownership in the USA. 0.5% of people own guns. It's been twenty years since the ban here, and people have heard nothing but negative.

How do you explain things like why an AWB is bull, or CCW is good, to people who have never shot, or even held, an actual gun in their entire life?

It starts with introducing them. But that's near impossible here too. Near as I can tell, there's one place in the entire state to shoot a rifle @ 100 yards outside that isn't an expensive club or one with a 150+ person waiting list.

If you live in, say, Idaho, and have an anti gun buddy, you can tell him "yeah meet me over at Bob's Lots-O-Fun Gun Range half hour over in Guntown" or "Hey grab some sandwiches we'll go down to the pit outside town" If you live in NJ, you can't do that. What do you say, "hey drive with me two hours down to Ft.Dix?" "Hey take a ride with me out to PA" "No thanks man, too far"

The politicians here are at fault, but the clubs and shops that have chosen to instead rape us and take advantage of the situation by charging $600 a year (not exaggerated) or god forbid open up to the public one day a week.

But that's fine, they have dug our grave. Many of the people who do like guns are moving out of NJ altogether, and the people moving here, well where they come from only drug dealers and the army have guns, so they'd soon enough support anything anti gun. That is, if they're even literate enough to vote at all anyway. And some of the retards that do own guns here know nothing. I was at the Bullet Hole in Belleville and some guy turned 180 out of the port holding a loaded handgun at the hip pointed at a crowd of a dozen people...yeah that does wonders for our example of gun owners being responsible...Barring some major changes coming from outside the state, in 15-20 years hardly anyone here will even remember what a gun owner was here.

So instead of fighting a (possibly) loosing fight we should simply wring our hands and bemoan the sad state of affairs in front of us? I'd rather fight to regain my full rights in a state like CA than sit back and do nothing until it comes to my state and realize that I have in fact lost ground, and now am faced with a long uphill struggle, a direct result of my complacency.


Exactly. Some people like to just put their hands on their ears and say "hahaha lalalala I live in _____ and I put whatever I want on my AR-15!" and think they're fine cause their state legislators are good about guns. They don't realize CA, NY, and NJ alone are almost 1/3 of the electoral college. So you let the blue states fester and laugh, but it won't be funny when they decide to make a federal push.

Tinpig
January 25, 2010, 08:58 PM
Thanks for the excellent rant, Prince Yamato-

Moving is never as simplistic as some would make it.

I'm a carpenter with 40 years of word-of-mouth and repeat customers in a small Massachusetts town. I don't make a lot of money but I always have work.
My wife has worked at the same hospital for 40 years as a nursing supervisor. With her seniority, she has excellent pay, benefits and job-security.

We're too young to retire and probably too old to start over. ;)

And we have no desire to move anywhere.

We have four grown children who live in Massachusetts with their families. They are an important part of our lives. My mother is 95 and lives down the road, my uncle is 93 and blind and lives next door. I watch out for them. My wife helps take care of her elderly parents. Who else is going to look after them?

I've spent 45 years rebuilding my house, built as a barn by my great-grandfather in 1870. It's in a beautiful place where I can shoot and hunt and fish right out the door. I have family in the town cemetery who fought in the Revolutionary War and every American war since. My wife and I both have deep roots here.

My friends and I have Class A (Large Capacity) Licenses to Carry. We own, collect, and shoot guns. We're doing what we can to get Massachusetts back to its roots in the 2nd Amendment and as a cradle of liberty. We can't do it from another state.

I don't knock other people's home states and I don't appreciate having mine dragged down. I've traveled through most of the other 49 and can find good things to say about every one I've been to.
Yes, we've got problems here... some of us stay home and work on them.

Tinpig

kingpin008
January 25, 2010, 09:25 PM
Tinpig - Well said! As you put it, it's just not as simple as moving. You know, the next person that says such a thing to me, is going to get asked if they'd like to finance the affair and help me pack boxes!:D

axeman_g
January 26, 2010, 12:28 PM
+1 to Tinpig and +1 to Dark Knight. Amen to Prince the OP.

It aint easy living on the front lines, but somebody has got to do it. All you REMFs, that is what I think of people from states like Ak, Vt, Id with 100% 2a rights, can thank all of us 2A Soldiers in NJ, Ma, CA, Ill, DC, Conn etc later on for picking the fights that might, might delay a total liberal takeover.

So take it easy on us. Help the people in AWB states, dont just sit back and rejoice in your states freedoms, use those freedoms to support your brother and sisters in our collective good fight. Otherwise we will move to your states and make the roads crowded, overpopulate the schools and ask everyone where good pizza can be found.

TT
January 26, 2010, 01:49 PM
Shadow Man: So instead of fighting a (possibly) loosing fight we should simply wring our hands and bemoan the sad state of affairs in front of us?

I neither recommend nor condemn bemoaning or tilting at windmills- do what you like. What I do recommend is 1) rejecting the OPís attempt give Blue State rah-rahs a monopoly on Ďmoving to CA/MA/NY/etc.í threads, and 2) donít move to California if you value your RKBA.

Shadow Man
January 26, 2010, 02:38 PM
What I do recommend is 1) rejecting the OP’s attempt give Blue State rah-rahs a monopoly on ‘moving to CA/MA/NY/etc.’ threads, and 2) don’t move to California if you value your RKBA.

I think the OP was trying to suggest that when such a thread occurs, instead of several posts telling the person who is moving to such a state "Don't do it, they'll take your guns!" to instead offer helpful suggestions about how to halt and then reverse the infringement already occuring in that state. We all know there are certain states that are not as free as others...pretty common knowledge. Some people are forced to move to places they may not freely choose. For example: if a Marine, lets say, is posted in Camp Lejeune NC (a pretty free state) and is then transfered to Camp Pendleton CA, he may need advice on what to do with his now-illegal weapons. Telling him not to move there is not helping him in the least...

Prince Yamato
January 26, 2010, 02:40 PM
I think the OP was trying to suggest that when such a thread occurs, instead of several posts telling the person who is moving to such a state "Don't do it, they'll take your guns!" to instead offer helpful suggestions about how to halt and then reverse the infringement already occuring in that state.

Exactly.

Dan M.
January 26, 2010, 02:52 PM
Pro 2A in CA outnumbered by 2A haters

CA residents here on THR outnumbered by CA haters

Can't talk sense to haters in either place.

Jefferson Herb
January 27, 2010, 02:06 AM
All we have to do is say ,"Greetings,from the land of Pelosi"!!! and all will be understood.
Sometimes I think this state deserves what we get,a bunch of Pelosi.

Tim the student
January 27, 2010, 10:08 AM
#1 Prince Yamoto, DK, & Tinpig. Keep fighting the good fight guys - maybe I can touch a rifle in a gun store the next time I visit MA.

Penzanse
January 27, 2010, 11:33 AM
OP's rant is my rant. We have a common foe. So why do we fracture ourselves with this "neener, neener, neerer" attitude?

"why should we leave them alone, maybe the people will elect folks that believe in the 2nd amendment,"

This is the type of thought process about state bashing that really chaps my hide. Can I use this lack of logic to blame you for the current administration? We are OUTNUMBERED in each district or at the statewide level. You who sit there comfortable in your home stroking your favorite gun while there are others out there fighting for rights. Your rights too. Do you think that your state is safe? There are politicians in each and every state that would take your rights away. They test laws here before they try it in your state.

I choose to live in Ca. When you are buried in snow, I am outdoors shooting. I can snowboard in the morning and surf in the afternoon. There is no way that I could get a job doing what I do in your town. I work in the satellite launching business. We all have reasons to live where we do.

Rant off....Like Red Green sez, we're all in this together.

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