Setup For Lazy Reloader


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Wildkow
January 24, 2010, 10:33 PM
I looked through a bunch of posts but didn't find anything addressing this question.

I have a Dillon XL-650 is it possible to do every step of reloading, except tumbling, on a XL-650 or a 1050 with either a single toolhead or multi-toolhead?

I shoot a Glocks 9mm and soon hopefully a G22/35 in .40/.357 sig and M4 in .223 Win Mod 70 .270. So I believe, since I shoot Glocks, I should consider a different sizer/deprimer die or perhaps two seperate dies?

If this is doable can you look this over and comment on this imaginary setup and if you don't mind me asking what's your setup?



First tumble brass... then place in casefeeder on 650

Toolhead #1
Station #1 RCBS Lube Die and deprimer,
Station #2 Resizer die EGW for Glock brass, a similar die GRX or an $CasePro?
Station #3 Swage tool, is there a swage tool that will go on the XL-650?
Station #4 Dillon 1200B Case Trimmer, I understand you don't need to chamfer if you use this tool?
Station #5 Almost out of Stations, anything else? Case gauge, debur primer hole tool, bristle cleaner or something else before we get to the actual reloading or should I get a 1050?

Retumble brass to clean off lube,

Toolhead #2

Station #1 Empty or a standard Dillon sizer die?
Station #2 Insert primer, bell pistol brass and drop powder
Station #3 Powder check/Bullet feeder?
Station #4 Seater die or/Bullet feeder if crimp is not necessary?
Station #5 Crimp die or Seater die.

So hows that look or am I irredeemably lazy?

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ants
January 25, 2010, 12:02 AM
Well, maybe you are absolutely right to ask questions before you get too deep.

Straight-wall pistol cartridges seldom need trimming or primer pocket swaging. You size/deprime, bell/charge, seat, remove bell (crimp). That's about it. Do it progressively on one toolhead, just like a progressive is designed.

Balrog
January 25, 2010, 12:05 AM
You are making things way more complicated than they need to be for reloading straight wall pistol cases.

For rifle, I size/deprime on a single stage, then trim, and then load on a Dillon 650.

Wildkow
January 25, 2010, 12:38 AM
Well the 9mm is a straight wall cartridge but the case is tapered, does that change anything?

What about your case prep, rifle or pistol you still have to chamfer the case mouth don't you? Thats what takes the most time and seems to be a ripe area in the reloading process for a wee bit more automation. I have a RCBS Trim Pro Center but I also have muscle loss in my hands due to neuropathy so I can prep cases for only about an hour at a time then I have to stop because my hands are to weak to continue or are quite painful.

I'd like to put the brass in a tumbler and then as I outlined above load them into the case feeder on my XL-650 and let fly. I can pull a lever for hours on end without pain. If it takes two toolheads and two steps to complete a round then so be it. Unless I can combine all I outlined above on the 1050.

Does anyone know if the RCBS Primer Pocket Swaging Die will work in the XL-650? If not I'll call RCBS in the morning, thanks for your replies.

Wildkow

PlusP
January 25, 2010, 12:49 AM
The RCBS uses a shell holder and must be used in a single stage press (call them to confirm) ...you should look at the dillon swedging tool...

mongoose33
January 25, 2010, 12:59 AM
I'm a bit surprised at this--it sounds like you've never reloaded before, and you've got a 650 and you're asking these questions?

I reload 9mm on my Hornady LnL AP progressive. I don't trim 9mm brass. I don't lube it, either, because my sizing/decapping die is carbide (well, titanium nitride, but it has the same effect, i.e., I don't have to lube).

Yes, 9mm is a tapered cartridge. So what? It is sized the same as you'd size a nontapered round like the .45.

Station one is resize/decap. In between stations one and two I reprime. I never clean the primer pockets, never uniform them.

Station two is the powder drop which has a case mouth expansion cone as part of it, so it expands the casemouth a bit while dropping powder. You don't need to chamfer the casemouth on these.

Station three is an RCBS Lockout Die that will lock up the press if I have a squib load or double charge.

Station four is the bullet seater die.

Station five is a taper crimp die to remove the casemouth expansion.

I don't know the 650 very well, but it strikes me that perhaps you should get a single-stage press and practice learning the various steps and stages of reloading before you graduate to the 650.

ants
January 25, 2010, 01:37 AM
Bottleneck cases, straight wall cases. If it ain't bottleneck, it's straight wall. Even tapered straight-wall are still straight wall.

The vast majority of loaders spend no time prepping straightwall pistol cases. After cleaning, inspect carefully for splits and other defects. Then load 'em. No trimming, no chamfering, no primer pocket swaging, no primer pocket cleaning, no dinner, no movie, no need to talk softly. No nuthin'. Clean, inspect, load.

You must lube if you don't have carbide dies.
You may lube if you wish with carbide dies but you don't have to. I don't.

I only chamfer bottleneck rifle cases.
As stated above, I don't chamfer straight wall pistol cases at all.

You lube most bottleneck rifle cases before resizing, because very few carbide rifle dies are available. You should also lube INSIDE the neck of bottleneck rifle, but don't get it sloppy wet or it will mess up the powder. Powdered graphite or powdered mica are often used inside the neck.

Got any how-to handbooks?
No? Get any two: Lyman, Hornady, Lee, Nosler, Speer, Sierra, ABC's of Reloading.
Yes? Review the chapters on equipment and procedure.

You have much to learn. Please don't try to charge a round until you have a complete grasp of everything. Keep it simple to start.

halfded
January 25, 2010, 09:28 AM
Since the word came up, let me just add this tidbit of information:

Lazy/inattentive reloader=loss/damage of body parts/guns/etc.

Walkalong
January 25, 2010, 09:39 AM
I bought a progressive many years ago because I am "lazy", but I am not inatentive. I just wanted to reload faster. I did learn on a single stage, but as soon as I had a good grasp of things, I went to a turret, and then a progressive, in short order.


Wildkow has a lot to learn, and is going to have a steep learning curve trying it this way.

As long as he keeps asking questions, and buys/reads some manuals, he should be OK if he is careful and attentive.

It is much easier for a beginner to learn on a single stage, and it will always come in handy later. It won't be money wasted.

Balrog
January 25, 2010, 01:13 PM
It is much easier for a beginner to learn on a single stage, and it will always come in handy later. It won't be money wasted.

Yep I agree. I have a Dillon 650 now, but my first was a Lee single stage, and then a Lee turret.

Sam1911
January 25, 2010, 01:56 PM
I'll throw this out:

I've found a LOT of range-pick-up brass to have swaged primers. Maybe 2-3%. It can cause a real headache trying to reprime. Sometimes it will go if you force it. Sometimes it will crush. Sometimes (especially with Federal primers) it will light off the primer.

I loaded a few 1000 9mms on my buddy's 650 before I got my 550 set up for 9mm. It was a real PITA to deal with the crimped brass because of the auto-indexing and the primer feed system. His solution was to keep a can of resized and de-crimped brass on the bench and when he felt the resistance of a crimped primer, he'd pop out that case and insert one of the "clean" ones.

On the 550 it is a lot easier because if I feel a tight primer on the deprime stroke, or even if it's not priming smoothly, I can stop, pluck out the case, ream the pocket, and pop it right back in without missing a beat.

So for me the process is:
1) Tumble
2) Inspect -- looking for defects and crappy "A-MERC" brass.
3) Station 1 -- deprime/resize, deal with crimped primer pocket if neccessary, prime
4) Station 2 -- bell case mouth and charge with powder
5) Station 3 -- seat bullet
6) Station 4 -- Crimp die to take out case mouth flare.

No trim, no chamfer, no swage tool, no special resizing dies.

And no failures in several thousand so far.

-Sam

jmorris
January 25, 2010, 02:36 PM
For pistol I do
1. Tumble
2. Case pro
3. lube
4. case feeder
5. Station 1 deprime size
6. Station 2 prime/powder
7. Station 3 powder check
8. Station 4 bullet feeder seats the bullet
9. Station 5 crimp
10. post load tumble to remove lube.

For rifle it's

1. Tumble
2. Anneal
3. lube
4. Fill Case feeder (650)
5. Station 1 (650) size deprime
6. Station 4 (650) trim
7. Fill case feeder (1050)
8. Station 2 (1050) another size die
9. Station 3 expander and primer pocket swage
10. Station 4 prime
11. Station 5 powder
12. Station 6 bullet feed
13. Station 7 bullet seat
14. Station 8 crimp
15. post load tumble to remove the lube
16. case gauge

lgbloader
January 26, 2010, 12:28 AM
WildKow,

Setup For Lazy Reloader = store bought factory ammo.

Sounds like you just want to be as effeciant as possible and this may not apply to you.

I am saying this with the greatest respect. No ways about it, you cannot half a$$ it. I have to admit that 223 REM brass prep is my least favorite thing I do as far as handloading is concerned and if I was taking the lazy route about it, I would probably just go into auto pilot and not concentrate "enough" and that would possibly create a scenario that could put me, my wife, my son and those around us at the range at risk.

Clearly, as anything in life, there are some that should handload and there are some that shouldn't. And while NO MAN can tell another what to do, it is each man's responsibility to be honest with himself when he fills in the blank applicable to him.

Cheers Mate.

LGB

Drail
January 26, 2010, 09:20 AM
"you cannot half a$$ it"" Words to live by. I have encountered so many guys who just want to do enough to make it sorta look like ammo with machines that do everything real fast. Reloading may not be rocket science but you can still get into trouble if you're in a hurry or don't understand basic laws of physics.

jmorris
January 26, 2010, 09:42 AM
"you cannot half a$$ it"" Words to live by. I have encountered so many guys who just want to do enough to make it sorta look like ammo with machines that do everything real fast.

You are correct in the fact that you can’t half ass it; however, just because an operation is performed quickly or without effort does not mean that it is done incorrectly.

My brass sorter can sort brass 10 times faster than I can by hand and it won’t miss a single .380 round in a five gallon bucket full of 9mm brass. I can’t say the same about my mark 1 eyeball though.

Sam1911
January 26, 2010, 09:54 AM
I have encountered so many guys who just want to do enough to make it sorta look like ammo with machines that do everything real fast
Really? Are these guys you know personally? Or folks out on the 'net?

I run through quite a few reloaded rounds -- something south of 10,000 a year. I shoot weekly with a crew of guys who are 95% reloaders as well, and so I see many, MANY more than that shot. I can only remember one guy who wasn't SUPER careful with his loads, and he was legendary for it because his sloppiness was so unusual.

And then I read through the reloading sections of various forums and every thread seems to have at least several mentions of best safety practices and giving the forces at work proper respect.

So, just out of curiosity, where are you meeting these guys? That just doesn't seem to match my expereince at all!

-Sam

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