Carrying +1


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Jaxinc
January 25, 2010, 04:38 AM
Tried searching around and didnt find much of anything.

I'm curious how many people carry their pistol with a round already chambered, I saw a few pictures already with a gun in the holster and hammer back, but how many actually do this?
Although it might be faster to pull and fire, I'd still have to bump the slide back to engage the hammer, cant really get at it on my 69 else, so I'm not seeing the need to carry an extra round.

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WC145
January 25, 2010, 06:56 AM
Search harder, there's a ridiculous number of posts/threads on this subject on every gun forum on the interweb. The knowledgeable consensus is that you carried chambered, assuming you have a modern weapon in which it is safe to do so.

Also search "cocked and locked" or "condition one" for your second question.

Bliggida
January 25, 2010, 07:30 AM
With the average gun fight lasting 3 seconds start to finish...
Takes you a 1/2 second just to recognize a threat and decide to do something about it.
Another full second to draw from a concealed position.
That's 50% of your time wasted on physical necessities of human interaction not counting stress.
So, justifying the gross motor skills of withdrawing your aim-on-target, to rack a round, get back on target and fire successfully. I just don't realistically see anyone being able to do so when your life is on the line.
Just not worth the unsafe caution of NOT having a round chambered.

If you're worried about an AD/ND I would first look at your system of carry for flaws.
Loaded guns carried - do not a BANG make!

Magic_Man
January 25, 2010, 08:29 AM
May as well have a paperweight if there isn't one in the chamber.

Sam1911
January 25, 2010, 08:33 AM
In almost any situation where you're carrying your sidearm in a quality holster in any of the traditional locations, the proper loading sequence is, insert mag, rack slide, engage safety (if any), drop mag, top off mag, re-seat magazine, holster.

The gun should be loaded to capacity. (You might only need one shot. You might need that 20th shot. Leaving it downloaded is strictly laziness.)

The gun should be ready to fire -- with only one hand free, if neccessary. Any time you have to cock hammers, rack slides, or otherwise manipulate the gun beyond that which you can do one-handed in a fraction of a second, you're introducing "failure points."

Further, a gun that is carried with one in the chamber will (almost universally) fire that one shot, at least. Having to rack the slide in a hurry is a perfect opportunity to jam your gun at the worst possible moment.

To reiterate: Carry in a good holster -- it will protect the controls from being accidentally manipulated, i.e.: the gun isn't going to go off on its own.

Carry chambered, cocked, locked (if applicable) and ready to go -- chances are you won't have time and your second hand free to work the action in the instant of need.

-Sam

Ben86
January 25, 2010, 08:41 AM
The only reason I would carry it unchambered would be if I don't have a holster with me.

I don't load the magazine to capacity unless it's single stack. I just don't feel my double stacks seat correctly and I like to insure proper function so I download by one to reduce mag tension on the slide.

content
January 25, 2010, 08:51 AM
Hello friends and neighbors // The type of autoloader you use determines safest ready carry.

My CZ 2075RAMI is DA/SA. I carry with a round chambered, hammer down, safety off.
All I need to do is draw, identify target, aim and squeeze. 8 or 12 +1

The DA first shot has a heavier trigger pull but is the all around best way to carry an autoloader IMHO.
You can also thumb back the hammer if you desire, but I prefer silence until action.

At least this is my mind set for the RAMI( I haven't had it long), 95% of the time I carry the 442.

The Bushmaster
January 25, 2010, 11:23 AM
Not sure which is worse...No round in the chamber or rocks in my pocket.

Madcap_Magician
January 25, 2010, 12:03 PM
Virtually everyone carries with a round in the chamber.

The tiny minority of those who do not generally carry single-action semiautos and for some reason are either non sufficiently competent or comfortable with them, which should be a sign that one needs more training or to carry a different gun, not a sign to carry a gun with which you are not competent without a round in the chamber.

NinjaFeint
January 25, 2010, 12:06 PM
The only people I know who don't carry a round in the chamber, don't carry very often. It seems to be people who aren't fully comfortable with having a firearm on their person and having nothing in the chamber makes them more comfortable. Of course, this does not apply to everyone.

Ben86
January 25, 2010, 12:14 PM
What if you don't have a holster on you. Say you just stuff the gun in your pocket or waistline, do you still keep it chambered?

Sam1911
January 25, 2010, 12:14 PM
Some folks have made a decent enough argument for Condition 3 (empty chamber) carry when the gun is carried in a less than secure manner, like off-body carry (purse, day-planner, etc.) where someone could grab (or just find) the gun and it might be advantageous not to have the gun instantly ready to fire.

(I have grave reservations against any form of carry where the gun could be that easily snatched or left behind, but it works for some folks.)

Same argument could apply to car/truck guns that do get left (against better judgement) in the vehicle and perhaps rattling around under a seat or in a glove box.

In both cases, the gun cannot be considered to be "instantly ready" in any case, so the act of drawing (more properly "retrieving") the gun is much more involved and charging the gun would, in theory, not add a significant amount of delay to the already protracted "drawing" process.

One could say this is going "semi-armed."

-Sam

Jonah71
January 25, 2010, 12:17 PM
When I do carry my Bersa Thunder .380 Del. S/D I keep one chambered with the safety off. Not much of a safety issue with this particular model. But I wouldn't do the same with the Taurus PT Pro 9mm, even as a bug. But by carrying a S&W .38 spec. rev. I don't worry too much about it.

Sam1911
January 25, 2010, 12:20 PM
What if you don't have a holster on you. Say you just stuff the gun in your pocket or waistline, do you still keep it chambered?

Guns that are safe to pocket-carry have some form of enhanced safety mechanism, generally. Either a long double-action pull, or some form of manual safety. (IMHO...I wouldn't pocket carry a Glock, personally.)

Sticking a gun into your waistband is not ... optimal. If it HAS to be done in some emergency situation, I'd trust the manual safety or passive safeties that exist, but I'd be mighty careful about it. If I find myself in that kind of emergency situation, chances are I may need that gun to work RIGHT AWAY, so I wouln't disable/down-load it. "Plaxico" or "Mexican" carry is not the sort of thing you choose to do deliberately.

-Sam

maroast
January 25, 2010, 12:39 PM
I carry my CBOB 1911 cocked and locked in a holster. I also carry it cocked and locked stuffed in my waistband.

S&W 60 357mag chiefs special (exposed hammer) fully loaded.... In a holster and waistband.

Also carry my Keltec P32 full mag + 1 in my waistband with the belt clip.

gwnorth
January 25, 2010, 12:44 PM
Carry a good double action revolver - always ready to go!

I have a pair of 3" (S&W M65-3 and a Ruger Service Six) which make great carry guns, and, of course, there is a round in all 6 chambers. My alternate is a SIG P232 and being DA/SA with a decocking lever, why of earth would you not carry it with a round chambered and the hammer de-cocked, ready to go in DA mode!

If you have a SAO auto-loading pistol, it only makes sense to carry with a round chambered as the combination of manual safety(s) and a good retention holster make this perfectly safe. Personally, I don't feel comfortable with SA pistols for carry - just grew up with DA wheel guns so DA/SA is what "feels" right to me, and feels perfectly natural to carry them with a round chambered.

NG VI
January 25, 2010, 01:03 PM
Although it might be faster to pull and fire, I'd still have to bump the slide back to engage the hammer, cant really get at it on my 69 else, so I'm not seeing the need to carry an extra round.


Sounds like you have the wrong gun for you.

possum
January 25, 2010, 01:48 PM
in my opinion there is no other way to carry, mag full and round in the chamber, unless you are in israel of course.

ever heard of the Tuller drill?

REAPER4206969
January 25, 2010, 03:14 PM
Although it might be faster to pull and fire, I'd still have to bump the slide back to engage the hammer, cant really get at it on my 69 else, so I'm not seeing the need to carry an extra round.What?

NavyLCDR
January 25, 2010, 03:34 PM
What?

I didn't understand that statement from the OP either.

NavyLCDR
January 25, 2010, 03:39 PM
I figured it out! He has a S&W 6904 and does not know that the first shot can be fired double action.

JAXINC,

I would suggest that you find and read an owner's manual for your gun.

It works just like a Ruger P345 except that the hammer is bobbed and cannot be cocked with the thumb.

If the safety is on when chambering a round, or placed on after chambering a round, the hammer decocks. HOWEVER, there is no need to rack the slide to cock the hammer - the first shot will fire double action, and subsequent shots will be single action until the safety is again placed on safe, which puts it back into double action mode.

If your gun won't fire the first round double action, it's broke.

REAPER4206969
January 25, 2010, 03:40 PM
I figured it out! He has a S&W 6904 and does not know that the first shot can be fired double action.
Interesting...

zombieoutfitters
January 25, 2010, 03:41 PM
Some folks have made a decent enough argument for Condition 3 (empty chamber) carry when the gun is carried in a less than secure manner, like off-body carry (purse, day-planner, etc.) where someone could grab (or just find) the gun and it might be advantageous not to have the gun instantly ready to fire.

(I have grave reservations against any form of carry where the gun could be that easily snatched or left behind, but it works for some folks.)

Same argument could apply to car/truck guns that do get left (against better judgement) in the vehicle and perhaps rattling around under a seat or in a glove box.

In both cases, the gun cannot be considered to be "instantly ready" in any case, so the act of drawing (more properly "retrieving") the gun is much more involved and charging the gun would, in theory, not add a significant amount of delay to the already protracted "drawing" process.

One could say this is going "semi-armed."

-Sam
I carry 90% of the time WITHOUT one in the chamber. It suits my situation and I feel that as stated by Sam1911 the additional time it would take me to rack my firearm when combined with the unholstering process is negligible for my particular carrying needs. I usually have to carry deep cover.

If however I enter a situation (and I have) or place where I feel that no amount of keen observation or preparedness will allow me to predict the unpredictable...I chamber a round.

This is not to say that the "unpredictable" couldn't happen during the situations in which I choose to carry unchambered. I accept that. A firearm is a tool, having that tool accessible is better than not having it at all. The situations for which I would be willing to use that firearm do not preclude carrying un-chambered...for me.

I don't object to folks who carry chambered - there are times I do. I just don't have a need to do so for where I am going and what I'm doing 90% of the time. So why risk a mishap.

There is tons of debates on this topic too...hunt around...check other forums too. PM me with any questions.

REAPER4206969
January 25, 2010, 03:43 PM
I carry 90% of the time WITHOUT one in the chamber.
If however I enter a situation (and I have) or place where I feel that no amount of keen observation or preparedness will allow me to predict the unpredictable...I chamber a round.
You're doing it wrong.

NavyLCDR
January 25, 2010, 03:46 PM
You're doing it wrong.

Oh boy. Here we go....

Is that popcorn I hear in the background?

Maybe I should also start the argument about dropping the first round in the chamber by hand, vice loading from the magazine?

Sam1911
January 25, 2010, 04:09 PM
"When carrying in a thunderwear rig, stored inside your purse, under the seat of your truck, do you thumb-cock the hammer to make it faster/easier to rack the slide and chamber a round?

Once you've got it cocked and chambered, do you feel that it is safe to carry cocked and unlocked "Plaxico-style" in your waistband?

:D

-Sam

zombieoutfitters
January 25, 2010, 04:22 PM
You're doing it wrong.
There is no "wrong" in personal choice. The "wrong" part comes from your disagreement which is a direct result of your personal choice conflicting with mine. Tactically, it works for me and that is pretty much all I care about. That and imparting my point of view for those who ask.

REAPER4206969
January 25, 2010, 04:27 PM
Why even carry if you're not going to take it seriously?

REAPER4206969
January 25, 2010, 04:29 PM
Maybe I should also start the argument about dropping the first round in the chamber by hand, vice loading from the magazine?
No Bubba loading!

NavyLCDR
January 25, 2010, 04:40 PM
No Bubba loading!


There is no "Bubba" in personal choice. The "Bubba" part comes from your disagreement which is a direct result of your personal choice conflicting with mine. Physically, it works for me and that is pretty much all I care about. That and imparting my point of view for those who ask (and even some that don't!) :D :neener:

REAPER4206969
January 25, 2010, 04:46 PM
lol



..

Ed Ames
January 25, 2010, 04:52 PM
I don't know about "bubba loading", but dropping a round directly in the chamber can be unsafe with some weapons.

NavyLCDR
January 25, 2010, 06:27 PM
I don't know about "bubba loading", but dropping a round directly in the chamber can be unsafe with some weapons.

And in some weapons it can be done perfectly safely.

Ed Ames
January 25, 2010, 06:32 PM
Yes, that's what "some" means. :rolleyes:

orionengnr
January 25, 2010, 09:50 PM
I'm curious how many people carry their pistol with a round already chambered
Yes and Hell yes, I only carry single stacks. Why would I sacrifice one round, or 11-20% of my magazine capacity?
I saw a few pictures already with a gun in the holster and hammer back, but how many actually do this?
Yes and Hell yes. If it isn't in Condition One, it requires two hands to turn it from a club to a pistol. If I wanted a club, I'd carry a club.

Clubs are for Cave Men.

The Lone Haranguer
January 25, 2010, 09:55 PM
A handgun carried on my person for self defense will have a loaded chamber.

EddieNFL
January 25, 2010, 09:58 PM
If however I enter a situation (and I have) or place where I feel that no amount of keen observation or preparedness will allow me to predict the unpredictable...I chamber a round.

This is not to say that the "unpredictable" couldn't happen during the situations in which I choose to carry unchambered.

But, wouldn't you have predicted that the unpredictable was going to happen and chamber a round?

MedWheeler
January 25, 2010, 09:59 PM
If the previous posters were right in deducing that you have a double-action-to-single-action pistol, and that you didn't know that, then some training is in order. Until you get it, which should be soon, then carry the way you have been. Don't chamber a round by racking the slide until you know how to lower the hammer..

Full Metal Jacket
January 25, 2010, 10:14 PM
well some folks are more comfy carrying chamber empty.

i'm not one of them.

if you have to use your gun to defend your life, chances are you'll have about a half a second to draw and fire.

carrying chamber empty opens you up to fumbling with the slide, if you don't rack it hard enough the round might get caught up on the feed ramp and not fully chamber, and so forth...

Jaxinc
January 25, 2010, 11:26 PM
I figured it out! He has a S&W 6904 and does not know that the first shot can be fired double action.

JAXINC,

I would suggest that you find and read an owner's manual for your gun.

It works just like a Ruger P345 except that the hammer is bobbed and cannot be cocked with the thumb.

If the safety is on when chambering a round, or placed on after chambering a round, the hammer decocks. HOWEVER, there is no need to rack the slide to cock the hammer - the first shot will fire double action, and subsequent shots will be single action until the safety is again placed on safe, which puts it back into double action mode.

If your gun won't fire the first round double action, it's broke.
Correct, this is my first firearm and the manual of course did not come with it. I have already contacted S&W to obtain one.
I did not know that, thanks for that info.

Forgive the newb status guys, I'll get into this stuff soon enough. Going to the range this weekend to get some practice in, havnt fired a pistol in ages.

Leanwolf
January 25, 2010, 11:40 PM
Colt's Lightweight Commander .45 ACP, 8 round magazine plus one in the chamber, cocked and locked, for me.

How others choose to carry is their business. Different strokes for different folks, as they say. :)

L.W.

boatme99
January 26, 2010, 12:43 AM
Empty chamber=unloaded.
SA revolvers excepted.

REAPER4206969
January 26, 2010, 01:15 AM
Empty chamber=unloaded.
/thread

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