lokking at a makarov


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uspJ
January 25, 2010, 02:49 PM
are there any types of makarovs to avoid? i've seen russian, polish, hungarian, czech types. are any of these better quality more accurate than any others?

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Gord
January 25, 2010, 03:06 PM
The only "real" Makarovs are the Russian and Bulgarian. The Polish and Hungarian P-guns are simply chambered in 9mm Mak - vendors tend to label them as Makarovs to try and cash in on the Mak's reputation. Ditto for the CZ-82/83 (though those have a great rep all of their own). So, it all depends on what you want. If you're looking for an actual Makarov, you're likely to end up with a Bulgie.

bdb benzino
January 25, 2010, 03:18 PM
Don't forget about the E. German Mak's. They are rergarded as one of the better ones!!

TehK1w1
January 25, 2010, 03:53 PM
Actual Makarov pistols were produced by East Germany, Bulgaria, China, Russia, and germany(post-war).
All of them are good quality, although some are better than others. You can't go wrong with an East German or Bulgarian Mak.

The Czech CZ-82/83, the Polish P-64, and Hungarian FEG PA-63, while chambered in 9mm MAK, are NOT "Makarovs"

FWIW, the Mak has a reputation for being extremely reliable.

Check out makarov.com. They are no longer active, but the site is still up and has lots of great info(The price guide is way out of date).

Babarsac
January 25, 2010, 04:46 PM
After you pick up a Makarov I would suggest getting a CZ-82 (as I did) to have something in the same caliber with double-stack magazines.

uspJ
January 26, 2010, 02:02 AM
thanks for the info, i think i may just go with the cz-82. when i was checking gunbroker those were the ones that were catching my eye the most.

GunsBeerFreedom
January 26, 2010, 02:03 AM
I too would recommend a CZ-82.

Gord
January 26, 2010, 02:07 AM
Whoops - how could I forget the Chinese and German Maks?! :o

weregunner
January 26, 2010, 06:16 AM
I have two stock Bulgarian Makarovs. Never had to do a thing to them except change out the recoil springs. Old for new. That's all.

There add ons or things you can do to tweak the gun if you want to.

I nerver have. Didn't see a reason to. There are those who have and the result was a better gun now then when they first had it.
http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?46-The-Makarov-Forum

Use the above link and then scroll down through the sticky threads. Much useful info. That includes the case for the Makarov as a CCW or defense gun.

A majority of the available Mak ammo has been tested and the results are in the sticky threads,also.

Considering a PA-63 or P64. There's this.
http://p64.proboards.com/index.cgi

Either of these places has info on these as well.

lev83
January 26, 2010, 07:47 AM
CZ 82 is a great gun you would not be disappointed.

OldMac
January 26, 2010, 07:57 AM
Both the Mak and CZ82 are great functioning guns. The CZ82 has much better sights and slightly larger grip to handle recoil. CZ is about half the price for same condition (Start around $159).

Zip06
January 29, 2010, 09:15 PM
If your intent is concealed carry then you should just purchase any Makarov and put East German grips on it. That will give you the most slab sided profile and most comfortable configuration possible

Al LaVodka
January 31, 2010, 01:00 AM
The CZ 82, and particulalrly the P-64 for carry, are the "Makarovs" to get. Don't bother w/a real one anymore -- they're just not worth it and were obsolete when they were first issued, especially compared to those others.

weregunner
January 31, 2010, 01:28 AM
The Makarov forum at Gunboards has a sticky thread for the case of the Makarov as a carry piece.

Ammo info on just about all the brands are there as well in a sticky.

bdb benzino
January 31, 2010, 01:34 AM
If you like to conceal carry, the real Makarov's with a stock set of the thin plastic grips (with the star on the bottom), are absolutely great. They are one of the original single stack CC pistols, and are a perfect size to comfortably carry.
I use to be big on capacity, but now would rather have some comfort and an extra mag! Super reliable, and easy to shoot as well.

Mojo-jo-jo
January 31, 2010, 02:00 AM
The real-deal Makarov pistols (Russian, Bulgarian, East German & Chinese) are some of the most reliable pistols ever made. The others are good as well. Consider that these are all military arms and had to pass field trials be selected for service.

CajunBass
January 31, 2010, 07:31 AM
I had a Bulgarian Mak for a while. Darn good little gun. The recoil is a bit snappy, it's sort of heavy and has a limited magazine capacity. I traded it off for something I wanted more at the time.

But I had a few hundred rounds of 9x18 laying around so I got a CZ-82. I like it enough that it's my day to day carry gun now.

Mark F
January 31, 2010, 07:47 AM
I carried a MAK for 30 years, it never mis-fired, never jammed, and it was never a problem. Mine was a .380 though.

Pilot
January 31, 2010, 07:47 AM
Don't bother w/a real one anymore -- they're just not worth it and were obsolete when they were first issued, especially compared to those others.

Seriously? Did you ever own one?

While the CZ-82 is a fine pistol in 9MM Mak it is heavier and more complex. The reliability, accuracy and simplicity of the "real" Makarov has been well proven. It is no more obsolete than any other single stack, relatively compact pistol. So I guess, single stack .380's like the Beretta M85, Walther PP/PPK and Sig P230/P232 are obsolete too?

bdb benzino
January 31, 2010, 01:01 PM
I noticed early that talking bad about a real Makarov will get you in trouble here just like talking bad about 1911's.
I absoltely love my E. German Mak, and although I also love Kahr's, I can not see the benefit of an all steel Kahr over a real Mak. I do however like the ease of carry with the polymer Kahr's.

Al LaVodka
January 31, 2010, 02:10 PM
Yeah, I've noticed people can get psycho-defensive about inexpensive Com-Block stuff too.

I have shot, carried, owned, and do own Maks and others and love 'em all. I also think that if the poster wants a real Walther he would've mentioned that. But, IMO, if he wants a fine 9x18 gun at a low price he should buy the CZ 82 for hi-cap, the P-64 for carry (as I have), and the Makarov for a Soviet Cold-War era relic and anchor. Its time as a cheap but useful milsurp has come and gone in comparison.

Pilot
January 31, 2010, 02:20 PM
Ha. Ok, don't respond to the facts, just state hyperbole and conjecture. Very High Road.

I really don't care if its Combloc or not. The FACT is that the PM continues to be accurate, reliable, slim, and concealable. Therefore, it is no more obsolete than any other .380 or 9x18 in its class including the CZ-82, which again is another fine choice. The FACT that they are now commanding much higher prices than the other 9x18 offerings is clear evidence they are sought after for a reason.

Al LaVodka
January 31, 2010, 04:17 PM
Another example of folk defending inexpensive Com-Block stuff they happen to own... I guess the next generation will be defending the P-64 as the best thing ever made that's also basically a copy of a fine German 1930's pistol.

Maks are NOT slim (just LOOK at a P-64 by comparison -- no, just compare the SLIDES!) nor especially concealable as they weigh a ton for what they are, and are only more expensive than the better overall MilSurp guns that are currently flooding the market. If for carry, the P-64 is obviously a superior choice. For home or range, or serious carry, the CZ. The Mak was a questionable main military pistol that was small and cheap enough when THEY flooded the market, to be of interest. And, as you may know, they are not imported anymore and haven't been for a while. Heck, they're not even made. Maybe that, a cult following by nerds (others collect thimbles and they cost more originally), and the Obama gun firesale is why their price has gone up? Nah. Even the company that specialized in parts and accesories for them couldn't keep a WEB-based part-time business open. Its over Johnny -- its OVER! And they'll fade into obscurity, a footnote to the fall of the Soviet Empire, literally.

Again, I'd simply like the buyer to handle these and let us know HIS decision. Why get defensive? I've given my opinion and now I'd like to hear another objective one. Or at least not from the schoolyard geeks who got picked on all their lives and now that they are "grown up" have to stamp their feet behind a screen about their once $89 handguns. Heaven forbid we ever find out what you'd act like if you'd ever paid several HUNDREDS for a pistol...

Deltaboy
January 31, 2010, 05:06 PM
Had one and trade it on another gun. It was a good Pistol. But I got rid of it after I got some 9 mm Mak mixed up with my 40 cal ammo one day. So I clean up my collection for safety.

Al LaVodka
January 31, 2010, 05:36 PM
No doubt -- Maks are good. But ya gotta tell us, whadid ya get son, whadid ya get!?

Marlin 45 carbine
January 31, 2010, 05:46 PM
yes Maks are good I own a Russki 'commercial' import I payed 120$ like new.
I've also owned a CZ83 .380acp I sort of wish I'd kept - another good pistol.
now I own a BDA .380 - maybe the best ever made, and a fine peice.
but the Mak is my carry.

RonAMOK
February 1, 2010, 12:06 AM
+1 for the Mak/CZ82, enjoy mine, But if you have a feed problem the relatively small ejection ports on these guns may make clearing the problem harder then pistols with more open ports. I have not had a problem with a Mak/CZ82/CZ83 that was not ammo or magazine caused. The guns have been 100%. So if you do the mag and ammo checks you should be OK.

The mag problems I had was trying to use CZ82 mags in a CZ83 380 ACP, lots of double feeds. After adjusting the lips, the mags are 100% reliable.

Cactus Jack Arizona
February 1, 2010, 08:45 PM
I started with the FEG PA-63. Although I loved the design, it would beat the hell out of your hand at the range, and that was after the spring changes. :mad: Finally got rid of it and got the two Maks. I have a Bulgarian 8 round Mak and a Russian 12 round double stack Mak. Soon, I'll be starting my search for an East German Mak.

Where the PA-63 was not pleasant to shoot, :mad: the two Maks are absolutely wonderful. ;) I carry one or the other everyday. Personally, I don't feel as though I'm at any kind of disadvantage by carrying 9X18 exclusively.

As the old saying goes, the Maks are KGB tested and approved. :neener:

paper757
February 1, 2010, 08:53 PM
Have both a Russian and Bulgarian Makarov. Nice shooters, long/heavy trigger pull for the first round. Not a big fan of the PA-63.

Stick with Russian, Bulgarian or East German and you will be good. Plus some of them hold nice value.

SOUTHPAW
February 1, 2010, 08:54 PM
Last month I bought an IJ-30 (Russian) from a friend who owned that and a Bulgarian Mak. He decided to sell one for a quick buck to pay off some CC debt and I happily obliged. :) I originally intended to carry it but it's pretty heavy and is currently used as my 1st-line home defense gun...

He put about 1,000 rounds or so through her, and I blew through a box of 100. Zero issues. :cool:

Maj Dad
February 1, 2010, 10:46 PM
I had an E. German Mak that slipped through my grasp (Rule #1: buy, never sell :banghead: ), but I picked up a Polish P-64 a few years back that I have decided to carry after some "torture" testing this past weekend. Last fall I shot it for only the second time since getting it and it jammed a couple of times (not FTF/E: jammed). I brought it home, cleaned the snot out of it, lubed it very well with Tetra Lube & Grease, and this weekend it ate all 100 rounds of 2 different brands of Russian fodder without a hiccup, slow & rapid fire (six round mag). Recoil is smart, of course, less so with the new Brown Bear 94 gr versus the white box Russian 109 gr I bought from J&G ~ ten years ago. Accuracy was remarkably good for such a little gun, and the Brown Bear printed about 2-3" higher, but accuracy for both was about 3-4" at 15 yds with aimed fire. Center mass was no problem with either. I put a Hogue Handall Jr. on it & it really helps: if you've a notion to use the pistol, I highly recommend it or one of its cousins. All in all, it is a very well finished and made pistol, and it is pure Mak in its innards, down to the 347.6 lb double-action trigger pull but 3 lb single action pull. Talk about contrasts... I thought about selling it & getting something more exotic, but, Rule #1 asserted itself and I came back to earth. Good pistol, very well put together and the only drawback I can see is weight, being all-steel (and not cheesy steel, either). I recommend it. :scrutiny:

SOUTHPAW
February 2, 2010, 09:44 AM
I had an E. German Mak that slipped through my grasp (Rule #1: buy, never sell ), but I picked up a Polish P-64 a few years back that I have decided to carry after some "torture" testing this past weekend. Last fall I shot it for only the second time since getting it and it jammed a couple of times (not FTF/E: jammed). I brought it home, cleaned the snot out of it, lubed it very well with Tetra Lube & Grease, and this weekend it ate all 100 rounds of 2 different brands of Russian fodder without a hiccup, slow & rapid fire (six round mag). Recoil is smart, of course, less so with the new Brown Bear 94 gr versus the white box Russian 109 gr I bought from J&G ~ ten years ago. Accuracy was remarkably good for such a little gun, and the Brown Bear printed about 2-3" higher, but accuracy for both was about 3-4" at 15 yds with aimed fire. Center mass was no problem with either. I put a Hogue Handall Jr. on it & it really helps: if you've a notion to use the pistol, I highly recommend it or one of its cousins. All in all, it is a very well finished and made pistol, and it is pure Mak in its innards, down to the 347.6 lb double-action trigger pull but 3 lb single action pull. Talk about contrasts... I thought about selling it & getting something more exotic, but, Rule #1 asserted itself and I came back to earth. Good pistol, very well put together and the only drawback I can see is weight, being all-steel (and not cheesy steel, either). I recommend it.

I like your "buy, never sell" rule. I was actually thinking of selling my Mak to finance a 1911 build but it makes perfect sense most of the time I guess. If I ever want it back it'll probably cost me more in the long run...

funkychinaman
February 2, 2010, 10:30 AM
I was looking at a P-64, but was a tad frightened by the crazy DA trigger pull that comes up in every review. Is there a way to fix it? And how does the P-64 compare to the P-83s that are coming onto the market?

Al LaVodka
February 2, 2010, 10:05 PM
I was looking at a P-64, but was a tad frightened by the crazy DA trigger pull that comes up in every review. Is there a way to fix it? And how does the P-64 compare to the P-83s that are coming onto the market?
Yes it can be fixed. There is an inexpensive Wolff Springs kit for it -- particularly the lower-weight hammer springs should be used for the trigger pull, probably as heavy as you are comfortable with. Same for recoil spring.

What an improvement.

Al

PS: Don't sell the Mak -- you'll miss it, it didn't hardly cost ya anything, ya won't want to abuse the 1911 right after ya buy it but who really cares about a Mak, and how much are ya gonna get fer it anyway -- just save up an extra week or two!

makarovnik
February 3, 2010, 04:53 AM
All the real makarovs are very good especially if you can pick one up for under $200.

woad_yurt
February 3, 2010, 10:52 AM
The CZ 82, and particulalrly the P-64 for carry, are the "Makarovs" to get. Don't bother w/a real one anymore -- they're just not worth it and were obsolete when they were first issued, especially compared to those others.

I've owned a P-64. I did the spring swap, both hammer and recoil, and still had my hands bitten by the sharp edges on the trigger and trigger guard. It was downright uncomfortable. My Makarov is way nicer to shoot; the P-64 doesn't come close. The P-64 does work well, though; mine was jamless. It's just too sharp-edged for me.

Nowadays Maks are selling for $300-$350 and I think if Ruger or any other big name maker introduced that same pistol today at that price, it'd sell quite well.

Question: Makarovs were obsolete in 1951? I don't think so.

android
February 3, 2010, 11:30 AM
I've got a Russian Mak with Marschal grips on it. It's a nice reliable pistol that was cheap by today's standards.

For me, it doesn't make much sense as a carry gun. It's exactly the same size as my P2000SK's and I can carry 11 rounds of 9mm or 10 rounds of .40 with those. So for the same footprint, I can't think why I would want to carry only 9 rounds of 9x18.

It's sometimes a glove box gun, but mostly to have something that's all steel with a pretty wood grip.

bdb benzino
February 3, 2010, 01:24 PM
I am sorry, but isnt the Makarov is way smaller than a HK P2000sk, particularly in the width area? Not to mention you are comparing a top of the line $800 pistol to a $200-$300 military surplus pistol.
I find my E. German Mak to be as thin and real similar in size to my Kahr CW 9. Now I am not saying there is any thing wrong with the HK, its a great pistol, but compared to the Makarov, the HK is more girthy.;)

android
February 3, 2010, 09:35 PM
I am sorry, but isnt the Makarov is way smaller than a HK P2000sk, particularly in the width area?

You would think so until you have them on top of each other, the Mak seems smaller and sleeker than it really is. Cool design I guess...

And it depends what aspect your measuring. The Mak is a tiny bit shorter in length and height. The frame and barrel of the Mak are about 1/4" narrower, but the grips are about the same size.

The HK is 1.17" wide in the grip and the Mak is actually 1.25" with the Marschal wood grips. The plastic stock grips is almost exactly the same as the HK.

Al LaVodka
February 3, 2010, 09:56 PM
Swine r fine but the Mak is a 50+ year old Russian pig with blued lipstick. A cheapified-knockoff of a superior German arm 20 years its senior, this was a heavy, low capacity, blowback gun of a middlling caliber. They were a good value for a nightstand gun once, but, if they weren't obsolete in the 50's then they certainly were when even the hard-strapped Russians started swapping them nearly a decade ago.

Pilot
February 3, 2010, 11:07 PM
^^^^^^


ok. :d

joneb
February 3, 2010, 11:44 PM
I bought a 1961 East German Makarov about 5yrs ago for $200, after replacing some springs this gun has been flawless, depending on the ammunition the gun is very accurate but the sight picture is a bit strenuous. I reload for it now and it is a pleasure to shoot. I often conceal carry this gun it is quite comfortable in my waistband.

weregunner
February 4, 2010, 12:48 AM
If the Makarov was a poor pistol overall the many users would not be out there with them. Junk does not sell nor would anyone bet their lives or those of others on a third rate or less gun and cartridge. There are several or more ammo makers who actually make defensive rounds that are excellent for self protection yet get the caliber up off it's knees. Hornady is just one such company. These various ammo JHP loads surpass even the .380ACP overall. No it is not in the 9x19 ballpark, but it better than the other low powered rounds.

The Mak is also a reliable and dureable design. Many knowledgable gun writers who've been there and done that say so as well as the users. It's documented as to why. Here's an example.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1215A-Case-FOR-the-Defensive-Maka

This was written by Stephen E. Camp. A well respected and knowledgable shooter as has ever come down the pike.

Yes, there are limitations to the gun and cartridge.

Here's the scoop on the 9x18 cartridge and just about all the 9x19 rounds out there available.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?299-9x18-Ammunition-Data-Post

There are those who also like the PA-63,P-64, and other similar 9x18 pistols.

I find that the original Makarov is easier, handier, and more fun to shoot than the others.

It's hard not like a pistol like that.

tiger rag
February 4, 2010, 01:39 AM
I have 3 Mak's one in 380 (my fav.) very reliable only draw back for me is weight and mag release location.

Snowdog
February 4, 2010, 09:22 AM
I've long been interested in the Makarov for its historical significance more so than its function. I wasn't too upset when my Makarov left me, especially since I couldn't find a darn thing to use it for that couldn't also be done by a better candidate that I already had.

That said, I do respect the Makarov. I simply haven't a use for one. The CZ-82 I purchased (that I believe is a far better pistol, IMO) to feed off the gobs of Norinco 9x18 I still had on hand has proven a joy to shoot. For target time, the CZ82 is hard to beat.

amazon shooter
February 4, 2010, 02:17 PM
Hi guys,

The following opinion about the Makarov seems to have an emotional spin to it:

"The Mak was a questionable main military pistol."

"A cheapified-knockoff of a superior German arm 20 years its senior, this was a heavy, low capacity, blowback gun of a middlling caliber."

"The Mak is a 50+ year old Russian pig with blued lipstick."

Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_PM for a balanced opinion.

Heck, they're not even made."

Here in the Amazon, I can buy a new Makarov (stamped "Made in Russia") today. I suspect they are still being made.

I think Mr. Makarov would be spinning in his grave if he heard some of the opinions of firearm experts on this forum.

North Bender
February 7, 2010, 03:17 AM
Maybe that, a cult following by nerds (others collect thimbles and they cost more originally), and the Obama gun firesale is why their price has gone up? Nah. Even the company that specialized in parts and accesories for them couldn't keep a WEB-based part-time business open. Its over Johnny -- its OVER! And they'll fade into obscurity, a footnote to the fall of the Soviet Empire, literally.

Can anyone else make sense of these statements? We seem to be viewing some sort of a one-man war against the makarov.

Shields up.

woad_yurt
February 7, 2010, 10:34 AM
Maybe that, a cult following by nerds (others collect thimbles and they cost more originally), and the Obama gun firesale is why their price has gone up? Nah. Even the company that specialized in parts and accesories for them couldn't keep a WEB-based part-time business open. Its over Johnny -- its OVER! And they'll fade into obscurity, a footnote to the fall of the Soviet Empire, literally.

A thought: Maybe the price has gone up because of demand, because some of us nerds value a reliable, accurate, simple gun?

Also, why do folks say it's a Walther copy all the time? If one looks at exploded drawings of the two, one can see the major differences.

weregunner
February 7, 2010, 10:47 AM
It would be nice if one comments on a Makarov and has the overall verifiable proof of what they say are all the negatives to back up the claim.

Never will see that anywhere. I've had some experience in dealing with people like that.

Since the overwhelming evidence is for the Makarov with facts and the truth, no problem.

wnycollector
February 7, 2010, 10:54 AM
A few years back I carried a Russian commercial mak as my CCW. I sold it a few years ago to finance the purchase of a SIG P220. Seeing a few of these threads recently I have been thinking of picking up another mak. I just found out that AIM has Bulgarian maks in stock for $269. Here is the link http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1MakBulg

bosh71
February 8, 2010, 06:13 PM
Hi everybody!I am Bulgarian police officer and Macarov is still my service issued weapon.If you want a Mac the best are the East German and the Bulgarian Macs but the Bulgarian must be one of the older ones,made before 2000 with the round trigger guard.The new ones made by Arsenal are not bad too but the old ones are better and the East German Macs were the best of all former communist countries.

M2 Carbine
February 9, 2010, 12:29 PM
Hi everybody!I am Bulgarian police officer and Macarov is still my service issued weapon.If you want a Mac the best are the East German and the Bulgarian Macs but the Bulgarian must be one of the older ones,made before 2000 with the round trigger guard.The new ones made by Arsenal are not bad too but the old ones are better and the East German Macs were the best of all former communist countries.
Interesting and welcome to THR.

I have one of the new Arsenal Makarovs (center right). They were sold for only a short time. I've never seen another one since.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Maksall15.jpg

Great pistols. Of the many dozen pistols I own the Makarov is a favorite.
I have one Bulgarian Mak that saw a LOT of use (bottom right). It's not beat up but has been shot a LOT. The sear and hammer were worn out. I think it was probably used as a range gun. But even now, that gun is more reliable and more accurate than most off the shelf guns.

The old gun at 52 yards. Standing. right hand, left hand and both hands. The thing just doesn't miss.:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Makarovsteel50yards2.jpg



.

Al LaVodka
February 10, 2010, 09:29 AM
I like Maks fine for what they are and better when they were at a decent price. That's what I keep in my nightstand. But I bought my first one a long time ago. I also just bought a museum quality Mle 1892 French revolver -- so what? Despite the Comblock-fringe defense of inexpensive stuff and a lot of self-proclaimed experts, Maks were clearly outdated Russian copies from the day they were issued. Nothing really wrong with them, just nothing overwhelmingly right where a cheap price makes them worthwhile anymore. Especially compared to the later 9x18's IMO. The Mak's time has more than come and gone unless ya just gotta have one, and we all have those. If ya really want something practical like it, buy a new, modern, smaller, thinner, lighter gun with as many rounds of actual 9mm for about the same price and duct-tape a handfull of small fishing weights to it, that's all I'm saying.

It is NOT a bargain anymore, and especially not a bargain CARRY gun if it ever was.

emilianoksa
February 10, 2010, 11:04 AM
The CZ83 has better sights and a much better trigger, but is let down by cheap, fragile plastic grips, and the slide looks somewhat out of proportion with the frame.

For me the Mak has a more elegant appearance, is easier to strip, more reliable and easier to conceal. The trigger improves with use. It looks and feels better than a Walther PPK.

And the Mak has something the CZ lacks. A history.

woad_yurt
February 10, 2010, 11:30 AM
bosh71:
What ammo do you use?

Jim PHL
February 10, 2010, 11:40 AM
They're kinda cool. I wish I had bought a few and kept them when they were 80 bucks.

bosh71
February 10, 2010, 03:54 PM
We use mostly Bulgarian and sometimes Russian ammo.The Bulgarian ammo is marked on the bottom of the case with 10,this is the factory in the town of Kazanlak,Bulgaria and another digit for the year it was produced.There are FMJ in red and lead bullet in green Bulgarian made.The Russian ammo is marked with TCW.It means Tula Armory.They are also in red for the FMJ and in green for the lead bullet.The Russian ammo is with higher velocity.The new Bulgarian Maks have square trigger guard and some phosphate finish which wears out pretty quick.Al LaVodka Maks are really already out of time but they are worth their money.I have my personal Glock 19 and Glock 26 but I still shoot the Mak with pleasure every time.

jon_in_wv
February 10, 2010, 05:57 PM
Don't bother w/a real one anymore -- they're just not worth it and were obsolete when they were first issued, especially compared to those others.

Wow, its funny those silly Russians still use the Makarov after more than 50 years in service. They must be really slow on the uptake. Either that or the Makarov is a proven weapon that is rugged, reliable, and accurate so they haven't seen the need to replace it for the last 50 years. They are using other handguns now but you will still find the Maks in service. I would like to know what advantage the P64 has over the Makarov? I certainly don't see any. The CZS have better sights and a double stack mag but other than that they have no real advantage either. In fact I prefer the single stack mag and the slimmer profile of the Mak over the CZ.

Glock Holiday
February 10, 2010, 06:55 PM
*Hijack Alert* Need quick info tonight sorry OP...
So this guy I know wants to sell me a Bulgy Mak with 700 rounds of Russian FMJ ammo for $350 FTF in my home state.
Is this a good deal or just so-so? Not really looking for another pistol or caliber but 700 rounds of ammo thrown in kind of makes me consider it.

Al LaVodka
February 10, 2010, 07:30 PM
It looks and feels better than a Walther PPK.

How about the PP it is modeled after? The P-64 is the knock-off of the PPK.
Al

Al LaVodka
February 10, 2010, 07:49 PM
Wow, its funny those silly Russians still use the Makarov after more than 50 years in service. They must be really slow on the uptake. Either that or the Makarov is a proven weapon that is rugged, reliable, and accurate so they haven't seen the need to replace it for the last 50 years. They are using other handguns now but you will still find the Maks in service. I would like to know what advantage the P64 has over the Makarov? I certainly don't see any. The CZS have better sights and a double stack mag but other than that they have no real advantage either. In fact I prefer the single stack mag and the slimmer profile of the Mak over the CZ.
The Russians as a state are slow on the uptake, absolutely. Look how long they had absolute Czar's and were (and leaning back towards) a Communist dictatorship. More than 50 years each, eh, so they must have been good. And they've been dirt poor as a nation. Their guns were little different than every other anachronistic item there. From buildings held together with straps to bread lines. Steal what you can get away with, stay in power, and make due with it for as long as you can. They're still making 1950's BMW Motorcycles -- doesn't make 'em bad but neither is a decent buggy whip. But who needs 'em? Even the best-made East German buggy whip, like it makes any real difference where it came from except to a bunch of kids off the short yellow bus jumping up and down all over the schoolyard, is still a friggin' buggy whip.

BTW, if you can't "see" the differences between a P-64 and a Makarov it is because that's all you've done, look at pictures, not even compare them side by side in real life no less wear or shoot them.

Al

jcwit
February 10, 2010, 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_in_wv
Wow, its funny those silly Russians still use the Makarov after more than 50 years in service. They must be really slow on the uptake. Either that or the Makarov is a proven weapon that is rugged, reliable, and accurate so they haven't seen the need to replace it for the last 50 years. They are using other handguns now but you will still find the Maks in service. I would like to know what advantage the P64 has over the Makarov? I certainly don't see any. The CZS have better sights and a double stack mag but other than that they have no real advantage either. In fact I prefer the single stack mag and the slimmer profile of the Mak over the CZ.

The Russians as a state are slow on the uptake, absolutely. Look how long they had absolute Czar's and were (and leaning back towards) a Communist dictatorship. More than 50 years each, eh, so they must have been good. And they've been dirt poor as a nation. Their guns were little different than every other anachronistic item there. From buildings held together with straps to bread lines. Steal what you can get away with, stay in power, and make due with it for as long as you can. They're still making 1950's BMW Motorcycles -- doesn't make 'em bad but neither is a decent buggy whip. But who needs 'em? Even the best-made East German buggy whip, like it makes any real difference where it came from except to a bunch of kids off the short yellow bus jumping up and down all over the schoolyard, is still a friggin' buggy whip.

BTW, if you can't "see" the differences between a P-64 and a Makarov it is because that's all you've done, look at pictures, not even compare them side by side in real life no less wear or shoot them.

Al


Yup, and next year we'll be using a 100 year old design in the 1911 Colt 45 ACP.

Sometimes things are just made right!

TehK1w1
February 10, 2010, 08:27 PM
*sigh* What's with the gratituous Mak-bashing? No, it isn't as powerful or concealable as some of the new wonderguns. It's not as concealable as some of it's contemporaries, either. Nobody's arguing that. However, it IS very well made (better than many new firearms), very reliable, very accurate), more powerful than the 380s that are so popular right now, and oh, yeah, it's cheap, too. $300 is a bargain for a pistol of that quality.

I'm still trying to figure out how it was "obsolete when first issued", especially considering that you're plugging the P64 so hard, which has a much worse trigger, is harder to control, holds less ammunition, and was made a decade later.



Originally Posted by emilianoksa View Post
It looks and feels better than a Walther PPK.
How about the PP it is modeled after? The P-64 is the knock-off of the PPK.
Al
Have you actually compared the Mak internals to PP internals?? They are completely different designs.
For that matter, the P64 is a different animal from the PPK, as well.

Oh, and Glock Holiday, that's a good deal if the gun's in good shape. I'd buy it if I were you.

Glock Holiday
February 10, 2010, 08:33 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/preokc/Picture012-1.jpg
Here is what the pistol looks like.
Thanks for the reply TehK1w1.
I'm going to sleep on it and let him know Friday.
Perhaps he'll come down closer to $300 even which with 705 rounds of brown bear I think would be a good deal.

Al LaVodka
February 10, 2010, 11:29 PM
Yup, and next year we'll be using a 100 year old design in the 1911 Colt 45 ACP.

Sometimes things are just made right!
So now a Makarov is being compared to the classic and venerable 1911!? I would like to say that's a bit of a stretch but I'm thinking someone's been inhaling too much lead or not putting enough down range. The 1911 was a great military gun. Arguably the greatest. John Browning considered his P-35 an improvement. The Mak? I hope no-one here would dare argue it was an adequate military gun by even 1950's standards! If you do you should turn in your THR decoder ring or at least stop prostelitizing Maks you Rasputin you.

In fact, ask yourself this question -- if someone were to give you one for free, which of the above named guns would you take? If you answer Makarov, seek professional help ASAP. And please don't be a wiseacre and answer a question with a question like "for what purpose" -- its cliche.

bdb benzino
February 11, 2010, 12:52 AM
How about this to settle this arguement.

If you had to pick one for concealed carry, the P64, or a real Makarov (e. German, Russian, Bulgarian, etc...) which would it be?

I'm pick'n the Mak.

joneb
February 11, 2010, 02:52 AM
In fact, ask yourself this question -- if someone were to give you one for free, which of the above named guns would you take?
It would depend on my need, I have a Colt Gov. 70's ser. that I like a lot, it is my bedside gun and it wears CT PJs. This gun is a bit large for a every day CCW for me, for this I prefer my S&W mod 36 or the Makarov, I hope that's ok :confused:

woad_yurt
February 11, 2010, 11:12 AM
I pocket carry, so I prefer a PA 63, then the Mak, then the P64. The Feg is a light gun. In the winter, coats permit me to carry bigger stuff. In warmer temps, I have a P3AT.

If I use the holster, though, it's the Makarov all the way.

M2 Carbine
February 11, 2010, 03:58 PM
I have 16 Makarovs, 3 P64s, 1 PA63, and four CZ83/82, so I know the guns pretty well.

There is a long time member of Glock Talk that was in the Polish Army. The Polish Army was armed with the P64. He said the gun was generally disliked because it was too small, difficult for the average soldier to shoot, kicks bad, has a more than a terrible DA trigger pull, small sights and the thumb safety gave problems. I think he said they dumped the P64 in favor of the CZ 82.

The P64 and PA-63 are decent guns but does not compare to the Makarov.

And while the Makarov and P64 are almost the same size the Makrov holds 8+1 rounds and the P64 only 6+1 rounds.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/P64andMak.jpg

jon_in_wv
February 11, 2010, 08:31 PM
BTW, if you can't "see" the differences between a P-64 and a Makarov it is because that's all you've done, look at pictures, not even compare them side by side in real life no less wear or shoot them.

Al, I would LOVE you to show me were I said I don't "see" any differences between the P-64 and the Mak because to put it simply I DIDN'T. I said, I don't see any ADVANTAGES to the P-64 over the Mak. If you would like to answer that rather than smugly mis-quote me I'd be all ears.

BTW> I do know they are different and I have experience with both. I personally see no advantages the P-64 would have over the MAK. The Mak is a much better weapon in my opinion.

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