[Monkeyleg]

Two weeks ago I agreed to participate in a discussion of the concealed carry bill before a meeting of the Sherman Park community association activist groups this afternoon. For those of you not from Milwaukee, the Sherman Park area used to be a great place to live (my wife and I lived there for ten years), but has turned into just another haven for gangstah's and drug dealers.

Jim Fendry from the Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement offered to attend as well, and also brought his associate Don Kingsbury. Thank God. Without them, I would have felt safer in the Sunni Triangle.

For a few minutes, we were able to talk about the proposed concealed carry bill. After those very few minutes, it turned into a chorus of screeching about "guns on the street." No common sense arguments about those guns being illegal could stop the screeching.

The shriekers offered their solutions: ban all guns, except for the police and the military. Grant you, these shriekers are the same ones who go ballistic every time a cop shoots a bad guy.

The audience was about 60% black, and we had to take some very derogatory comments about "old white men coming into the neighborhood to increase the traffic in illegal guns." Never mind that I lived there for ten years, lived on the integrated East side for ten years prior, or that I live in an integrated neighborhood now. Nevermind, too, that none of the three of us sell guns.

Jim Fendry did what I thought was a superb job of laying out the racist roots of gun control laws going back to the period following the Civil War. One would think that such a discussion might provoke some thought. It might have, if Jim Fendry were black and a Democrat. He was met with a chorus of boo's and obscene gestures.

These people--white and black--are the most at risk for being victims of violent crime. Yet they cling to a preposterus notion that, if all guns disappear from the face of the earth, the criminals will become law-abiding.

Never in my 53 years on this earth have I ever encountered a group so hostile to differing views. Never have I seen a group so closed-minded about any issue.

The process of polarization continues, and at a rate more rapid than I ever thought possible.

[Lone_Gunman]

Logical discussion is difficult if your brain doesnt work right.

You gave it a shot, your audience was too stupid to hear the truth.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Do they think the local ex-convict will get CCW? Our the gangbanger? DO THEY UNDERSTAND that all CCW will be vetted and on record? Where does the "streets filled with guns" come from? Like some business guy is going to open fire...on who? It is a load of excrement fed to them by libs and the media.

[AZRickD]

Belly of the beast, eh?

Wasn't that fun, though?

Thanks for tellin' your story. But if you want to have a wider audience, I suggest you ask your paper for some op-ed space to talk about this incident. Or you could call up a reporter. You might get the cold shoulder, but sometimes they are receptive.

A great way to embarrass that group.

Rick

[Standing Wolf]

Never in my 53 years on this earth have I ever encountered a group so hostile to differing views. Never have I seen a group so closed-minded about any issue.

I'm glad you tried. I'd guess there's a good chance you planted a seed or two that will take root in due time. We often don't see the results of our actions.

[Monkeyleg]

AZRickD: "Wasn't that fun, though?"

No, Rick, it wasn't, and not because I don't enjoy trying to present arguments. The die-hard, rock-solid, Democrat core base activists wouldn't even allow us to present an argument. Anytime we tried to present a rebuttal to the lies presented by the assistant district attorney or the representative from WAVE (Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort), we were pretty much shouted down, or just drowned out in a chorus of "my cousin got shot when he was selling some good rocks to my other cousin, and it's all you white guy's fault for bringin' that gun here."

My best opportunity was when a woman asked me about the sheriff's claims that the bill was an unfunded mandate that would take deputies off the streets to fill out paperwork. At last, I thought to myself, an opportunity to educate someone. I explained that the paperwork could be done by a $15 an hour clerk, would take between fifteen minutes and half an hour, and would give the department $90 net per applicant in "profit" after all expenses.

That statement was met with a twenty-minute diatribe from a guy who said he worked for the city, that no city agency can make a profit, that he was in the Army, did this, that and anything else, had a degree in history, and knows that guns were brought to the US to kill black people hundreds of years ago.

Sigh.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

I can not say I know how you feel, I guess you took the bullet for the rest of us. Sorry that you were abused.

[Norton]

Thanks for taking one for the team. I haven't been involved in a face to face debate....but given the lack of logic and civility from antis in my online debates, I can only imagine what it was like.

Have a cold one on me!:D

[TarpleyG]

Well, you certainly have more patience than I do. I'd have gotten up and left after the first round of "my cousin got shot blah, blah, blah..."

GT

[AJ Dual]

Was there any thought at all of getting Kenn Blanchard there, or at least any of his materials?

I suppose it may not have helped. It's unfortunate that the civil rights movement devolved from "We simply want our rights, and a fair shake", to ad-nauseum mantra of "White America is out to get you", much of it outright tinfoil hattery. CCW prohibitions in most states really were Jim Crow laws that initially had the quid-pro-quo that they'd never be enforced against whites. And that message will never get through if it comes from the “wrong” source, and unfortunately, white or black, there currently is no “right” source..

We don't really share a common framework of reality and rational debate isn't possible, and that's even more true here in a city like Milwaukee. What's worse, those in the black community who might share some of the pro-gun community's views, or even just be open to giving them a fair hearing are suppressed even more mercilessly as "Uncle Toms" or traitors to the cause.

It's a vicious anti-logic catch-22 circle. If you're white, you have no right to comment or rebut their platform, and if you're black, you have no right to hold, much less, defend what's perceived to be a "white ideology".

I've come to the conclusion that a renaissance of Conservative, Libertarian, or pro-gun/RKBA thought in the black community will have to come completely from within, if it ever does. :(

[mpthole]

Dick,

Thanks for trying. I went to a similar "round-table" about 2 years ago for one of those "First Monday" things (something about the first Monday that the USSC meets...?) sponsored by the MMM'ers. It was in St. Paul and I had the pleasure of sitting next to Prof. Joe Olson.

The anti's never once could actually provide a sound, logical argument and at the same time shouted down, boo'ed or hissed whenever someone from our side tried to point out the facts. Extremely frustrating. For those liberals who claim to be so open-minded and accepting of all views - because afterall, who are they to decide between right and wrong - they sure have their minds all made up. :barf:

Again, thanks for fighting the good fight.

[longeyes]

I sympathize. As you say, The Polarization continues. This is an issue
where democracy is action is bound to disappoint, but it is one of a
complex of issues where Reason has been effectively banned. What can
you expect from a society where Irrationality has been encouraged, even
divinized, for forty years?

[Pilgrim]

That statement was met with a twenty-minute diatribe from a guy who said he worked for the city, that no city agency can make a profit, that he was in the Army, did this, that and anything else, had a degree in history, and knows that guns were brought to the US to kill black people hundreds of years ago.

And AIDS was invented by the white man to kill off the black man, blah, blah, blah!

Pilgrim

[Travis McGee]

Yeah, those folks really have grasped it.

Only the police and the military need guns.

http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/photos/holocaust.jpg

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

OK. That is very visual:scrutiny:

[Black Snowman]

The racist comments are very telling. Bigots come in all colors. If you were to get press time it might be easier to get it from that angle. Any recordings of the incedent?

[Monkeyleg]

Black Snowman, there was one local station there with a camera. They broadcast just a snippet of Jim Fendry's talk (with Don Kingsbury's name under the images). I'm just glad they didn't broadcast any images of me.

In the end, it just isn't that big a deal. It just reaffirmed what's been said here so often, and what I've seen at events such as the MMM march back in 2000: many anti's cannot control their tempers, and they can't present their arguments in a logical fashion. For them, it's all emotions. If they'e not screaming at gun owners, they're lighting candles and weeping.

[HankB]

. . . a chorus of "my cousin got shot when he was selling some good rocks to my other cousin, and it's all you white guy's fault for bringin' that gun here." He was met with a chorus of boo's and obscene gestures. . . . a twenty-minute diatribe from a guy who said . . . that guns were brought to the US to kill black people hundreds of years ago. Just as well that I wasn't there. At some point, I probably would've said something decidedly un-PC.

[BowStreetRunner]

sad, just sad
sorry it was so bad for you
but thanks for standing up for the good guys
maybe someone saw through the bovine droppings in the anti arguement and you made an impact on at least one person
God willing, Wisconsin can pass CCW and in 5 years these people wont have a darn thing to point to in support of their arguement......(then again, logic doesnt seem to be their strong suit)
BSR

[CommonSense]

Monkey: I admire your attempt to convince the Sherman Park Association that the bill would make their neighborhood safer.

However it appears to me you didn’t research your audience. A troop of middle-aged white males in that neighborhood will not stand a chance in hell of having their voice heard. You should have gone in with 2 black males, 1 black female, 1 hispanic male and 1 white female to make the presentation. You and your colleges should have been in the audience to ask tough questions to the above panel that they could positively responded to.

Marketing is everything – even when it comes to opinions. I stand by my offer to help with strategy planning.

[grampster]

7.62fmj,

Very visual, but oh, so very true. The blissninnies will never come to understand that there have been more millions of people murdered by their own "governments" than by "enemies foreign". Can it ever happen here? No, not as long as we continue to stand up for our God given rights. Apparently though, half of us, (at least half of who have been polled) think we should give up our rights for a "little safety".

As for me, give me freedom and I'll embrace the danger that comes with it.

grampster