1st time shooting my reloads...


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Iansstud
January 28, 2010, 09:08 PM
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I have been reading and looking into reloading for the 40-super for the last year and a half...

I loaded up 25 rounds and took them out to the range... I was Very Very unhappy with what happened...

out of 25rds:
20 seemed soo weak they had no kick, a few dident even open the action, the rest would not cycle correctly ending up in a FTE or stovepipe
5 worked as i would have hoped...
All of the brass looked great, no buldges, cracks, or anything... just a little dirty

All 25 were Very inconsistent from one to the next.

The only thing I can think of is the Recipe called for Small RIFLE primers and I used Small Pistol primers. I was told this would not hurt anything. Do you think this would cause the inconsistencies?

Also there seemed alot of room left in the shell for more powder would this change anything


here is what I did: took 25 new brass in 40 super out of new box from triton, sized them (just to be sure) added my primers, loaded the powder charge 2 scoops of .5cc (11.2gr) Blue Dot, seated 135gr JHP bullets to 1.250"

am I missing anything?

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Saint Dennis
January 28, 2010, 09:13 PM
A powder scale and a reloading manual would be of great assistance. Follow a published recipee from a known source and better luck next time. You'll get it to work and It will be fun.

Iansstud
January 28, 2010, 09:20 PM
Have a reloading manual

40 super reloads were published by Tony R. of tromix for triton, I have 14 pages of reloads by the MFG for this ammo.

I Used Lee's webpage for powder mesurement table found here (http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/Dippers.pdf).
I cant afford a scale right now...

I was VERY precise about this or at least as precise as one can be with the above table

Im thinking it is the Primers...

FROGO207
January 28, 2010, 09:51 PM
You have to be real careful when using dippers. The recommended procedure is to have propellant in a open mouth container. Then push the dipper down into the propellant bottom first and let it flow into the dipper. Lift out and use a plastic straightedge (narrow end of a credit card) to scrape the top level. Do not scoup down forward and out as the loading of dipper will be inconsistent. That said the dipper will only give you a set amount of propellant and the load you seek may fall between two available dipper amounts. Using one dipper larger could exceed the max amount. This is why the comment about getting the measure. The lee measure is real inexpensive and works well. Or get the lee scale and use a larger measure to gently fill the cup just to the proper weight. When the correct propellant amount and bullet tension or crimp are used the rounds should be accurate and repeatable to build. The primers are different mostly in that pistol primers are made with softer cups and will not hold up to rifle pressures, also the rifle ones take a stronger strike to get reliable ignition as they are thicker.
good luck Rick

If you know another reloader you may be able to use his scales to weigh out a charge that will work. When you get it where you want it take a larger dipper and file the top down to get just what you need for volume. Do get someone with scales to help you with this as guessing could prove disastrous.

rfwobbly
January 28, 2010, 09:55 PM
Have a reloading manual. 40 super reloads were published by Tony R. of tromix for triton, I have 14 pages of reloads by the MFG for this ammo.
Never heard of "Tony R". May I suggest following reloads from a powder manufacturer, even if it's off their web site. Purchasing a real honest-to-goodness reloading manual will solve a host of issues.


I Used Lee's webpage for powder measurement table found here.
I cant afford a scale right now...
Wow! You must be pretty poor because here's the exact scale I use everyday going for $10 on Ebay. HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/RCBS-Reloading-Scale_W0QQitemZ220547432806QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3359a6c166)


For the record I was VERY precise about this or at least as precise as one can be with the above table.
Your technique is NOT in question. The sources and tools are.


You are correct in that precision is called for. You obviously have the will and the skill. I know that your first "go" has been disheartening, we all went though this at one time or the other. This is a very important lesson, though. Will and skill cannot make up for lack of proper equipment and verified reloading data.

Get a scale and your second attempt will be far, far better.

FROGO207
January 28, 2010, 10:03 PM
re-post removal

mcdonl
January 28, 2010, 10:06 PM
Sounds like my first trip after loading. All I have ever loaded is for my mosin, and it is with a Lee Handloader. Using the yellow scoops... many, I was having bullets fall out when closing the bolt, bullets falling INTO the case... all sorts of things.

But, once I got it, I got it.

And you have to allow the powder to flow into the scoops for sure or you will not get consistant loads.

Stick with it... I am looking for my OWN horror stories with 9mm soon enough!

mgkdrgn
January 28, 2010, 10:09 PM
You are not going to get accurate powder loads using just dippers. You need to get a scale to see what you are actually throwing. EVERY powder measures differently, volume -vs- grain weight.

Your first KBOOM caused by a bad reload will pay for a case of scales.

Jeff H
January 28, 2010, 10:28 PM
Going against the grain of most people in this thread, I will say that volumetric loading is very viable and something that most reloading companies have been doing forever. (you don't actually think you Dillon measures by weight do you?)

You should be checking with a scale though because I have noticed that most of the Lee data I have seen measures light vs. what Lee says it should weigh.

A real quick google search pulled up this site and while it doesn't list Blue Dot, it does give other options. Oh, and don't use any of this data if it can't be verified with a published source.

http://www.jrwhipple.com/guns/40super_loads.html

rfwobbly
January 29, 2010, 09:43 AM
Going against the grain of most people in this thread, I will say that volumetric loading is very viable and something that most reloading companies have been doing forever. (you don't actually think you Dillon measures by weight do you?)

In fact, brother, you are saying exactly what we are saying.

Almost all rapid powder measurement is volumetric. The real questions is this: Is the volume being dispensed based on a weight or dipper size? Weighing loads takes into account density, whereas scooping powder up in a dipper does not. You will get 2 vastly different dipper amounts when you scoop, versus pouring powder into the dipper.

Hope this helps!

HarleyFixer
January 29, 2010, 10:28 AM
Sounds like your rounds are not making enough pressure to seal the case to the chamber and actuate the slide. I agree to buy a $10 Lee scale or digital scale that will measure in grains to check your load. Also make sure your dies and crimping enough to put tension on the bullet.

BTW I can find NO load data using Blue Dot.

RandyP
January 29, 2010, 11:43 AM
When I first read this post I thought it involved .40 S&W, my error.

I'd reckon that Triton, who invented the .40 Super wildcat cartridge, 'should' be a good source of reloading data? So perhaps you are having a crimping issue?

What reloading gear are you using? What load data range did Triton provide for your powder choice?

Sam1911
January 29, 2010, 12:04 PM
You know that Tony Rumore is a member here, right? You could send him a Private Message and he might just talk you through what you're doing to see if he notices any trouble spots.

http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=8243

In fact, the site tells me he's logged in at the moment.

-Sam

Iansstud
January 29, 2010, 03:10 PM
I did not know tony was a member here, I emailed him the other day. Good to know, Thanks!!

I have come to a few conclusions:

Small pistol and Small rifle are the same as far as pressure goes (not Large pistol or Large rifle) They differ in thickness and small rifle is more suited for High Pressure loads. I have 375 more small pistol primers I will keep using until I run out, or I see an Issue with them.

I need to get a powder scale and weigh out my loads to make sure I am accurate with my charge.

I need to set a tighter crimp. (I read that necked cartriges dont need a heavy crimp or a crimp at all.) but I will tighten the crimp a little. **I RE-read a few pages on the 40 super and they recomend a Heavy Taper Crimp... so that is what I will try next time**

I will do 5 rounds at a time, with each powder charge and work up (I was avoiding this because I just wanted a plinking round not a Hunting/ target load) But I guess I will give it a go...

I now wish I had got a different powder... I wanted something I could use in 40 super and 45acp loads. It was blue dot or red dot... I wanted Unique or power pistol but they were out...

Thanks to everyone!!! This is my 1st batch after having the stuff for over a year. I just got the itch to do it the other day, and I guess I had built my hopes up to hight...

** update, I just emailed Tony with some questions, I will post what I come up with.**

rcmodel
January 29, 2010, 03:32 PM
My feeling is, if you can afford to shoot some off-the-wall bottleneck caliber like .40 Super, for which there is little to no published tested data in any reloading manual.

Then Dangit!
You can also dang well afford a dang cheap set of dang reloading scales!

Getsum!

rc

floydster
January 29, 2010, 03:42 PM
rc, Amen !!:)

Wow 700th post, Hee, Haw.

Nate1778
January 29, 2010, 03:54 PM
Lee has always been conservative in there charge scales for their dippers and Auto-Disk. When using Unique which is a flake powder like Blue Dot I sometimes have to jump up 2-3 disk sizes to get the proper weight compared to their chart. The ONLY way to know is weigh what they throw. Once you know you can find the right dipper for your load.

Iansstud
January 29, 2010, 04:27 PM
My feeling is, if you can afford to shoot some off-the-wall bottleneck caliber like .40 Super, for which there is little to no published tested data in any reloading manual.

Then Dangit!
You can also dang well afford a dang cheap set of dang reloading scales!

Getsum!

rc

Ill tell you how a guy like me got Into 40 super...

One day about a year and a half ago, I was looking on GunBroker for a USP Compact 45 mags, when an add cought my eye. It was for a Barsto barrel for the USP compact 45, 500 triton brass, RBCS Dies, 200 Bullets, Pages of load info and 100 Loaded bullets All for the price of $125 shipped on a buy it now. So I emailed him and we ended up doing it for $100 shipped out the door...

Now I have a USP Compact Tactical in 45 and a barrel for 40 super 2 in 1.

anyways Thats how I could afford to buy that stuff!!!

Iansstud
January 29, 2010, 04:31 PM
Ohh and my reloading stuff I got for $35 for a Almost new Lee hand loader, 45 die set, Hand primer tool (all the reloading stuff to load 45) It just did not come with a scale.

It was from this site I belive in the classifieds...

I just bought Primers, Powder and a reloading manual (not to mension my AK47 pistol project Im working on) If the wife finds out I just bought a Scale, I have a feeling I will no longer be a "gun guy" you know how it is...

Anyone want to trade 7000gr of AA#7 for 6720gr of Blue Dot???????

bullseye308
January 29, 2010, 04:50 PM
Not to add more to your expenditures, but a set of check weights is a "should have", especially if you get a used scale or just want the piece of mind that your scale is dead on. You don't even need a good set, one of the cheaper ones will do.

If that isn't doable, take a of paperclip, wire cutters, 2x2 ziplocks, & a sharpie to a jewler and ask him to borrow his scales for a min. Cut and weigh pieces till you get a nice even weight then bag it, mark it, and thank the man then head on home and check your scale.

Remember, you need grains. 7000 grains = 1LB.

mgkdrgn
January 30, 2010, 11:00 AM
Here is a Lee safety scale on Ebay for less than $20. These are very accurate and durable little scales.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lee-Safety-Scale-NIP_W0QQitemZ220512418134QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3357907956

jfh
January 30, 2010, 11:10 AM
your wife may disown you if she finds out, Iansstud, but the advice from bullseye308 and mgkdrgn is spot on. Don't be penny-wise and pound foolish. Buy a cheap / Lee scale and set of checkweights now. And don't buy a cheap digital scale because it looks to be a better deal or have more features; get a balance beam and learn how to use it.

If you get the Lee balance beam--and I recommend you do--there's a simple tip or two that make it easy to use and will solve the frustration many Lee scale buyers experience.

Let us know what you are going to do--

Jim H.

ojibweindian
January 30, 2010, 11:34 AM
Get this scale: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=712103

While not the best, it certainly isn't absolutely horrible, and you can be a bit more precise in measuring your powder charges.

Iansstud
January 30, 2010, 05:25 PM
I will have to wait a few weeks, But Ive decided to get a scale. Thanks Guys!!!

Tony said the load I was doing was kindof weak, and bluedot is unstable for such a small amount of powder. I will also change my powder.

1 LT MPC
January 31, 2010, 10:46 AM
jfh,
What's the tips for the Lee scale? I need them.

jfh
January 31, 2010, 12:25 PM
1 LT MPC: users of the Lee scale typically get frustrated in using it because a) it is hard to adjust without incessant 'jiggling', and b) it takes a long time to settle in.

My experience shows that one can easily overcome the problems with changing the vernier setting--which is the jiggly part by doing the following.

1. take the beam off the scale (I have to do this anyway to cope with my aging eyes).
2. Leave the vernier 'set' button pushed in--i.e., with the drag on.
3. Hold the beam in both hands and place your thumbnails on either side of the vernier slide.
With a bit of practice, you should be able to push with the appropriate thumbnail to slide the verneir up or down steadily. IOW one can easily make the 0.1 gr. incremental changes without the vernier going back and forth, or jiggling when it's on the balance point, etc.
4. Replace the beam back on the balance point. Make sure it is settled into the point / razor blacde ; it is easy to get it off sllightly. Look at the left end to see that it is centered and that it will swing freely.
5. Double-check that the ball bearing in the proper trough for your charge weight. Reattach the powder tray--and go to work.

As for the settling-in time--if the charge weight is reasonably close to the set weight--say plus-or-minus two-tenths grain--the settle time is short. If you have trouble with a long settle-in time, try pouring your charge slowly into the tray.

Personally, I use the scale mostly for handgun charges, and most often for load-development--i.e., changing charge weights by perhaps two-tenths grain after ten loads, that sort of weighing. I have other beam scales (505, 1010), but I need the Lee because of its small size for a smaller bench now., combined with an adjustable charge bar in the (Autodisk) measure and familiarity with the powders I use lessens the amount of time to derive an accurate charge weight and then test it by five to ten repetitions.

But, the real trick for me was when I understood the technique for adjusting the vernier.

Obviously, this list does not discuss all the tasks in keeping a balance beam scale operating accurately. I assume you know those--but the only real negative I've found was that, on a twenty-year old scale, the razor balance point was 'rusty'--not just grunged up with airborne detrius. I replaced that scale with a new one, as I didn't trust accuracy any longer.

Jim H.

ArchAngelCD
February 1, 2010, 03:08 AM
here is what I did: took 25 new brass in 40 super out of new box from triton, sized them (just to be sure) added my primers, loaded the powder charge 2 scoops of .5cc (11.2gr) Blue Dot, seated 135gr JHP bullets to 1.250"

am I missing anything?
I was VERY precise about this or at least as precise as one can be with the above table

Im thinking it is the Primers...
Well Sir, if you want to be precise you might want to realize that according to the chart you linked to 2X .5cc dipper does not equal 11.2gr, it equals 11.6gr. It can be dangerous if you are loading a heavier powder change than you think you are loading! Check your Math...

Also, if you didn't have any small rifle primers you should have substituted small pistol Magnum primers, not standard small pistol primers. The Magnum primers are much closer to the small rifle primers than the standard pistol primers are.

Good luck working out your problems with the 40 Super...

1 LT MPC
February 3, 2010, 09:26 PM
jfh,
Thanks for the tip, I see what you mean.

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