resizing problem


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howelljeffrey
January 28, 2010, 10:22 PM
I am new to reloading. I ordered the Lee Classic Turret press and a set of Hornady New Dimension dies (3 die). I got it all set up with the resizing/decapping die installed per instructions. I am reloading .40 s&w once fired brass. When I run the case into the die, it decaps properly but the resizing is turning out weird and lopsided, creating a slight lip around one side of the base about 1/16" up from the base. The die is also leaving ugly vertical striation marks on the case. I have tried loosening the lock ring and running it up to make sure everything is centered. I also changed out the shell holder but I'm still getting unsatisfactory results. The case is running all the way up into the die as far as it can possibly go. I would really appreciate any advice!

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jcwit
January 28, 2010, 10:50 PM
I'll bet you're resizing brass that was fired in a Glock. Brass has a bulge down side from firing in an unsuported chamber. Cure for it as far as I know is to get a Redding Rx push thru die.

Hope this helps

JimKirk
January 28, 2010, 10:57 PM
Does it look like this?

Jimmy K

howelljeffrey
January 28, 2010, 11:07 PM
Does it look like this?

Jimmy K
Yes...is it still ok to reload like this?

jcwit
January 28, 2010, 11:17 PM
There was a thread about this last week or earlier this week. I do not remember what the consensus was. Try the search function. Maybe walkalong or rc or bushmaster will hop on here.

jcwit
January 28, 2010, 11:25 PM
jeff what are you shooting it in? May not get much of an answer till tomorrow.

bds
January 28, 2010, 11:35 PM
Hi all,

jcwit, he said they were once fired brass so even though he doesn't shoot a Glock, it will still be a problem.

howelljeffrey, you may need the Redding G-RX die to size all the way down to the base of the case ($37 from MidwayUSA) or I found the shell holder top is thinner than the progressive/turret shell plate, thus allowing you to size further down the case. If you have access to a single stage press, you can try your die/case to see if that will fix your problem. If using your die in a single stage press works, you may be able to find a new/used single stage press for a decent price (I find them for $25-$35 at gun shows/classified ads).


Here's one thread that talked about Glocked cases (less supported Glock barrel chambers bulging the base of cases).

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6212826#post6212826



Here's a repost from another thread that may be pertinent to your problem:

"For Lee reloaders,

I found sizing some 9mm brass on Lee Pro 1000 using shell plate #19 quite do not size all the way down to the bottom of the case and would fail the case gauge. But when I size the same case using the standard shell holder #19 in a single stage press, case is sized all the way down and pass the case gauge.

Upon closer examination of the shell plate and shell holder, I found shell plate top thicker than the shell holder, which explained the above.

If you have this problem using progressive press/shell plate and already have a single stage press, you can mount the sizing die on the single stage press and see if this improves sizing (most reloaders I shoot with have found this addresses the sizing issue). The Redding G-RX die is $37 from MidwayUSA and AFAIK, it is only available in 40S&W.

I switched to single stage and progressive press setup and size/deprime on the single stage press. Since the switchover, I have found only a handful of cases that failed the gauge test."

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6223734#post6223734

JimKirk
January 28, 2010, 11:51 PM
Cure: Redding 40 S&W G-Rx push through die. Some feel that bulged brass is not safe, others that it is. If it looks bad I'm tossing it, I like my fingers. I use the 40 S&W G-Rx with my 357 SIG. The once fired brass that I have got had nowhere as pronounced line as the photo I enclosed, but they still would not chamber in my 31 model Glock with out a push. I would get some hangups while firing. Not anymore after I got the G-Rx.

Jimmy K

howelljeffrey
January 29, 2010, 12:40 AM
Thank you all for the suggestions! Much appreciated.

rfwobbly
January 29, 2010, 08:30 AM
Your eyes will lie to you faster than you would ever think. You really should buy a "case gauge" or a "cartridge gauge" and let that be the deciding factor as to whether the brass is good for reloading. You can get these for about $12 at Midway and that's the cheapest peace-of-mind you can buy.

After my 9mm gauge helped me discover 3 un-chamberable rounds within a 250 competition round lot, I went and bought one for the rest of my calibers. What a time saver !!!

jcwit
January 29, 2010, 09:11 AM
There's your answer in posts 7, 8, and 10. Only thing to add is some advise to use the barrel chamber as the case gauge. This is with the barrel out of the gun of course.

steve4102
January 29, 2010, 06:30 PM
Cure: Redding 40 S&W G-Rx push through die.

I have a Redding G-Rx die for my Glock. It is not carbide and requires lube, PITA for me. I shelved the Redding die and replaced it with a Lee Factory crimp die, it's carbide(no lube). Remove the guts from the LFCD and push the brass all the way through just like the Redding die, Cheaper, no lube and a multi tasker.

jcwit
January 29, 2010, 07:21 PM
Well now, how about that! Brilliant idea, seriously. Another one of those so simple things we mostly don't see.

JimKirk
January 29, 2010, 07:47 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=500129&highlight=Redding+Carbide+G-Rx

JK


Steve would you like to sell yours(G-Rx), I know someone who is wanting one?


I have to lube for the 357 SIG anyway, so it's no big deal for me.

bds
January 30, 2010, 09:36 AM
I have a Redding G-Rx die for my Glock. It is not carbide and requires lube, PITA for me. I shelved the Redding die and replaced it with a Lee Factory crimp die, it's carbide(no lube). Remove the guts from the LFCD and push the brass all the way through just like the Redding die, Cheaper, no lube and a multi tasker.

Lee should sell a shell plate/holder adapter to use with FCD as cheaper carbide competition to Redding G-RX and no lube (BTW, G-RX only comes in 40 S&W)! :D :D

Should send Lee an email ... :rolleyes:

steve4102
January 30, 2010, 09:52 AM
Lee should use your comment to sell FCD as cheaper carbide competition to Redding G-RX and no lube (BTW, G-RX only comes in 40 S&W)!

Should send Lee an email ...


Lee is coming out with a kit they call the "Bulge Buster". It consists of the shell holder, push stem and bottle. Carbide LFCD sold separately.

Walkalong
January 30, 2010, 11:04 AM
Your eyes will lie to you faster than you would ever think. You really should buy a "case gauge" or a "cartridge gauge" and let that be the deciding factor as to whether the brass is good for reloading. You can get these for about $12 at Midway and that's the cheapest peace-of-mind you can buy.
Absolutely.

I am sure the Redding G-RX die works like a champ, but if my regular sizer won't size it to fit my case gauge, it has been stressed more than normal. There is too much free 9MM & .40 range brass for me to worry with cases that my sizer can't size.

Lee should use your comment to sell FCD as cheaper carbide competition to Redding G-RX and no lube
The FCD might not do it because the carbide ring is smaller than the sizer ring, but then again, maybe that would be perfect. Anyway, if Redding doesn't have a patent, I am sure others, including Lee, will come out with them as well, if they think there is money to be made. (A market for them)

JimKirk
January 30, 2010, 11:16 AM
It's not that the sizer won't size to the proper size, but it is the problem of getting that last .003-.005 of the brass up into the die. The way normal shell holders and dies are made does not allow this to happen. The shell holder could be too thick, but if you got it thin enough to fix the problem, it probably would break. The solution is to pass it(the brass) all the way through the die.

I do think Redding has over priced this G-Rx die, but folks are buying them like hotcakes, I hope Lee does get it's version out, maybe it will put some pressure on Redding. Probably not.

Jimmy K

bds
January 30, 2010, 07:25 PM
I do think Redding has over priced this G-Rx die, but folks are buying them like hotcakes

If people are buying over-priced single purpose die like hot cakes, there certainly is a market. I just wish it was carbide and came in 9mm and 45 ACP also.

I found that using a single stage press with the thinner shell holder (shell plate top is thicker) and Lee carbide sizer will size the case all the way down to the base of the case. You can often pick up a single stage press (new/used) for less than what the Redding G-RX die costs - and you can reload all the rifle cases now.

I have extra shell plates and even thought about grinding the top of the shell plate to get the extra sizing to the base of the case - maybe I might do a test.

JimKirk
January 30, 2010, 08:27 PM
Check the link in post #14... Carbide on the way, at what price?? You may see one in 45 ACP, but I doubt you'll ever see it in 9mm because it is tapered. The 9mm carbide dies I have, still need to be lubed.

Jimmy K

bds
January 30, 2010, 09:06 PM
I still think using the thinner top regular shell holder on a single stage press is cheaper and more "productive" solution. I have very few cases failing the case gauge out of thousands of fired brass. Loaded 1000 rounds for our morning trip to one of shooting spots before morning coffee with pre-sized/primed cases.

The carbide version of G-RX may cost more then steel die and if they only come in 40/45 caliber, no help for 9mm bulged cases.

JimKirk
January 31, 2010, 12:26 AM
So your regular 9mm dies don't remove the bulge, even with the thin shell holders?

I don't think you will ever see any kind of push thru die from any company for the 9mm, because the 9mm brass is tapered, I just don't see a way for it to work. The 45 ACP should be no problem, buy a 45 die, cut the top off and push it thru.

If you will look, that is what Redding has done with the G-Rx, only they made the bottle adapter to fit the top end( I don't have the adapter). Really, that is what mine looks like, the bottom half of a 40 S&W die!

Jimmy K

Superblackrifle
January 31, 2010, 02:18 AM
use a little bit of sizing lube

bds
January 31, 2010, 10:44 AM
JimKirk,

True on the 9mm being tapered (case base wider then neck).

So, if you just need a little bit to fully size down to the base of the case, won't grinding the top of the shell plate/holder be an option?

The cost of shell plate/holder should be cheaper than the G-RX die for most (Lee shell holder $3.50/Lee Pro 1000 shell plate $14.50).

JimKirk
January 31, 2010, 01:06 PM
I may have misunderstood what you were saying.

I still think using the thinner top regular shell holder on a single stage press is cheaper and more "productive" solution

What I thought you were saying... that you wished they made the G-Rx in 9mm & 45, but then you say... that by using a thin shell holder would fix the problem, Is that correct?

I just wish it was carbide and came in 9mm and 45 ACP also.


If that is correct then you would not need a G-Rx ....Right?

Being I have a 357 SIG, I can't run it up(in the die) any farther, because it would set the shoulder back too much, then I could have headspace problems. The SIG is a bottle neck cartridge. If it was straight like the 40 S&W or the 45 ACP then it would not matter if it went farther in.

Jimmy K

bds
January 31, 2010, 01:33 PM
We had similar discussions to "fix" Glocked cases in our shooting group and decided it was better to eliminate the cause of the bulges instead of fixing the bulges.

That's why I recommend the better chamber supported newer factory barrels or match grade aftermarket barrels with even better support/tighter chamber.

Fixing the bulged cases by using Redding G-RX pass through dies or using thinner top shell holder on single stage press will not address the cause of bulged cases, you can only do that with barrel change.

Since I have switched to Lone Wolf barrels (I load to 5% less max), I no longer get bulged cases. For range pickup brass, I inspect them closely and sort out any bulged cases and they all get sized on the single stage press (any case that fails the case gauge gets tossed for scrap).

Walkalong
January 31, 2010, 01:35 PM
All this fuss about nothing. Nothing to do with the OP's question either, if I read it right

Assuming the sizer is in spec, if your regular carbide or steel 9MM sizer will not size it enough to pass the gauge, scrap it. 9MM & .40 brass is free or cheap at the worst. The last .003 of sizing doesn't matter, it won't get those few overstressed cases that your sizer won't do. Scrap em and quit worrying about it. Heck, 99% of my 9MM guns will chamber and shoot the ones that fail the gauge, but I don't use those cases because I have one tight chambered (within spec, just tight) 9MM pistol.



Anyway

Some cases will look bad, much like the OP has described (just like JimKirk posted a pic of), but they load and shoot fine if they pass the gauge. If his press/die set up does it to all of the cases, something is out of line. When I load a batch of 9MM 0r .40 range brass, a few cases will do exactly what the OP describes, but most size fairly evenly around the circumference.

Another possibility is a sharp edge on the bottom of the carbide ring. That will do it every time. I had a .38 Super undersized die like that. It sure is hard to fix a carbide insert. They are tough as heck.

If all the OP's brass is looking like JimKirk's pic, he needs to get it replaced by the maker.

We had similar discussions to "fix" Glocked cases in our shooting group and decided it was better to eliminate the cause of the bulges instead of fixing the bulges.I agree wholeheartedly.

JimKirk
January 31, 2010, 02:05 PM
There is no fuss!
I was only trying to understand what was being said, a clarification at best!

And yes it does have something to do with the post because we were discussing the same problem, albeit in a deeper understanding.

And yes those last few thousands do matter if they keep the cartridge from fully entering the chamber, which they do with my 357 SIG. I bought quite a few cases, once fired from a police dept range. You can not see the bulge with your eye( I can measure it), but when I run them through a regular sizing die, I get a line simliar to the one in the photo. It is closer to the base and much smaller, but it does cause hangups. The SIG chamber in my Glock is much tigher than what ever these hulls were shot in.

Jimmy K

The Bushmaster
January 31, 2010, 03:18 PM
Well now...That made it easy for me. The Police dept. were probably using Glocks and JimKirk is using a Glock. I don't want anything to do with this. Good reading. I'm out of here.

JimKirk
January 31, 2010, 04:42 PM
Well maybe that how it got it's name.... Glocked brass.

Thanks
Jimmy K

Walkalong
January 31, 2010, 05:38 PM
The OP was talking about .40 brass, and for it that last .003 means diddly squat. If sizing .003 farther down on .40 makes it chamber, which I doubt, there are other issues. And if it doesn't pass the gauge after regular sizing, I'd scrap it, just like I posted earlier.


Now.....357 Sig, sure nuff, that last .003 means something (in either direction), but I guess I missed where it changed to .357 Sig.

I use the 40 S&W G-Rx with my 357 SIG.

Aghh....I see, you changed lanes and I missed it.

If I just had to load for a gun that bulged the brass so badly a regular sizer would not size it, I think my first try would be an aftermarket barrel that supported the case better. If that was not possible, I would be very careful how many times I loaded those cases to full power. I bet the new G-RX die is the schnitz for getting those cases back to spec, but again, I would be cautious about how many times I loaded them.

albeit in a deeper understanding.I think my feelings are hurt. I might have to get a government grant to pay for therapy. :D

Where did I put big O's number?

JimKirk
January 31, 2010, 07:50 PM
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who over looks vital details in a post.

You must have read into the post something I didn't include...
bulged the brass so badly
This is what I said..
You can not see the bulge with your eye( I can measure it), but when I run them through a regular sizing die, I get a line similar to the one in the photo. It is closer to the base and much smaller, but it does cause hangups. The SIG chamber in my Glock is much tighter than what ever these hulls were shot in.


I should have added that my own brass does not do this!

I think my feelings are hurt. I think my feelings are hurt.

The government ain't got that much spare money:D


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
:evil:Jimmy

Walkalong
January 31, 2010, 07:58 PM
Yea, probably broke after buying and destroying all those clunkers. :D

snuffy
January 31, 2010, 09:14 PM
howelljeffrey, you may need the Redding G-RX die to size all the way down to the base of the case ($37 from MidwayUSA) or I found the shell holder top is thinner than the progressive/turret shell plate, thus allowing you to size further down the case. If you have access to a single stage press, you can try your die/case to see if that will fix your problem.

BDS, you're confused about the press howelljeffery has. The lee turret is basically a single stage loader with a multi hole turret above it's single ram. It uses standard shell holders.


Quote:
Cure: Redding 40 S&W G-Rx push through die.
I have a Redding G-Rx die for my Glock. It is not carbide and requires lube, PITA for me. I shelved the Redding die and replaced it with a Lee Factory crimp die, it's carbide(no lube). Remove the guts from the LFCD and push the brass all the way through just like the Redding die, Cheaper, no lube and a multi tasker.

The lee FCD is bigger than even a standard sizing die. I'd be surprised if one would even touch/ begin to size a fired case. They're made to iron out of speck, bulged, cases so they will chamber.

Howelljeffery, are the cases you are trying to size fired in a glock? Look at the firing pin mark on the primer, does it have a rectangular mark surrounding the FP dent? If it does, then it was fired in a glock. My glock does show a bit of a belly, however it has never interfered with function of my reloads.

bds
January 31, 2010, 09:20 PM
BDS, you're confused about the press howelljeffery has. The lee turret is basically a single stage loader with a multi hole turret above it's single ram. It uses standard shell holders.

Darn, don't get old ... your mind is first to go :D

I covered the shell holder issue and added the shell plate because the thicker top of the shell plate makes this problem worse.

I think the ultimate solution is to have all the Glock shooters replace their old less supported barrels with newer ones so us reloaders won't have this resizing issue. :rolleyes: I say we have Glock recall these old barrels .... for inconveniencing reloaders.

double d
February 1, 2010, 05:41 PM
+1 on the Redding G-Rx if you shoot .40 S&W in a Glock. Couple of
issues to consider--Don't clean your brass shiny before using the G-Rx.
The cleaner the brass is, the harder it is to push the brass through. Also,
the Imperial wax works much better than case lube. Wax alternating
cartridges and they run through easier. Run the brass through your
normal cleaning process after they are sized in the G-Rx.

As for the striations on your brass, I would bet your die has acumulated
brass build-up on the walls. Best way to remove is to put the die in a
vise and run a bronze cleaning brush (attached to your drill) with some
bore cleaner in the die. It only takes a couple minutes to remove the
build-up.

bds
February 3, 2010, 02:01 AM
This should fix those cases now. :D

Lee is releasing a new kit to "push through" size bulged cases like Redding G-RX using Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Comes in 380ACP, 40S&W, 10mm, 41AE, 45ACP, 45GAP, 45WinMag and $19.98.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=502850

bds
February 3, 2010, 02:16 AM
steve4102:
I have a Redding G-Rx die for my Glock. It is not carbide and requires lube, PITA for me. I shelved the Redding die and replaced it with a Lee Factory crimp die, it's carbide(no lube). Remove the guts from the LFCD and push the brass all the way through just like the Redding die, Cheaper, no lube and a multi tasker.

Lee should sell a shell plate/holder adapter to use with FCD as cheaper carbide competition to Redding G-RX and no lube (BTW, G-RX only comes in 40 S&W)!

Should send Lee an email ...

Steve, I guess you were on the same page. :D:D

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