Most Dependable Pistol?


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jesse_roy12
January 29, 2010, 09:57 AM
My wife and I are talking about getting a pistol for security at our home. I was thinking the Glock 23 or maybe Glock 23C, knowing they are dependable. Her being able to handle anything would not be a problem, she was a gunner in Iraq for convoy security, :what: and was certified on 8 out of the 9 weapons. That being said, what is a good, trustworthy, dependable handgun that would be worth investing into?? Any advice or input is appreciated.......

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EddieNFL
January 29, 2010, 10:01 AM
Revolvers.

Popcorn and beer? Check.

jesse_roy12
January 29, 2010, 10:24 AM
I love revolvers too, but the only thing is that when you run out, you run out, but same goes for a semi-automatic, but you have more chances with a semi, but neither one of us is a bad shot, maybe revolver is the way to go, maybe a .38?

F1
January 29, 2010, 10:26 AM
Most dependable? A good revolver is the most dependable. Automatics sometimes jam, even the best of them.

F1
January 29, 2010, 10:31 AM
But, for an automatic, Glocks are generally very dependable. In my own experience I've found the Glock .357SIG's to be the most reliable, but my own experience with Glocks is only between the various 9mm models and the Glock 33.

SSN Vet
January 29, 2010, 10:31 AM
Is the ability of the average shooter to hit a CD size target at 7 yards 95% of the time with the pistol being considered, without the benefit of hours of instruction, part of the reliability requirement?

If so, scratch all DAO pistols off the list.

Donning flame suit ;)

19-3Ben
January 29, 2010, 10:35 AM
If it's for both of you, you may want to look into the S&W M&P. By all accounts they are just as reliable as Glocks, but they have the advantage of interchangeable backstraps so that if you have shooter of different size hands you can pick three different sizes of grips on your gun and match the gun to the shooter.

(Caution: stereotype below)

You can use the large backstrap, and if she wants to shoot you can swap in the small backstrap so it fits a smaller hand.

Mayo
January 29, 2010, 10:42 AM
SIG's---SA/DA.

roaddog28
January 29, 2010, 10:52 AM
My first choice would be a revolver. I have a Smith and Wesson model 10 4 inch police service revolver loaded with the famous "FBI" round. Most all gun fights will be won or loss in four rounds. Shot placement is key and especially the first one. Nothing wrong with a semi-auto but there is still more to think about in a semi-auto than a revolver. I own and shoot semi-autos and enjoy them. But at home if someone threatens the life of my wife or me then I will use the revolver first. Its always ready. Nothing to think about other than point and pull the trigger.

Good luck with your decision,
roaddog28

shockwave
January 29, 2010, 11:05 AM
S&W .357 mag in your frame of choice. There are 7 and 8-models if you want more firepower. Shoot .38 spl or .357 as you prefer. Nothing wrong with Glocks, or any solid auto. I keep looking at Glocks all the time, and have practiced with several. There is no ultimate answer to revolver-vs-automatics.

Personally, I don't know what kind of circumstances might lead to a HD situation. In the best of all scenarios, somebody's banging on your door, yelling. Or you're awake and you hear the sound of breaking glass. Given that much warning, I'm grabbing the shotgun. Other scenarios have you with very little time and that's where "grab-point-shoot" has me favoring revolvers.

shenandoah
January 29, 2010, 11:13 AM
For fast, you can't beat a revolver. BUT get what she likes, and you can't go wrong. As to the Glock, it's a good pistol...I like the model 30. The recoil is linear, allowing quick follow up.

SideArmed
January 29, 2010, 11:14 AM
Some guys like guaranteed 100% reliability in a defense gun so they may go revolver.

I can live with 99.99% reliability as i think the advantages of a semi auto (reload times, triggers) far exceed the reliability factor you give up with this platform of handgun vs a revolver. I would trust my life with some Semi auto's and I would feel more comfortable defending myself with a semi auto.

With that said the only reason to get a model 23 vs a 22 or 35 is if you plan to carry it.

I would have a full-size or bigger gun for my nightstand gun with Max capacity. And I do ;) a G34
The 23 is a nice weapon but will probably have some snap to it

SideArmed
January 29, 2010, 11:20 AM
My first choice would be a revolver. I have a Smith and Wesson model 10 4 inch police service revolver loaded with the famous "FBI" round. Most all gun fights will be won or loss in four rounds. Shot placement is key and especially the first one. Nothing wrong with a semi-auto but there is still more to think about in a semi-auto than a revolver. I own and shoot semi-autos and enjoy them. But at home if someone threatens the life of my wife or me then I will use the revolver first. Its always ready. Nothing to think about other than point and pull the trigger.

Good luck with your decision,
roaddog28
Road dog I don't think most gunfights are over in 4 rds, maybe 4 hits :). I can't remember where some GunsnAmmo Mag or something talking about NY police shootings but average rounds fired in a gunfight was somewhere from 12-17. I think this took into account both parties firing so I guess cut that in half for a single weapon. Now if you are facing more than 1 attacker? I would want more than 5/6 rds from a revolver. I would remember too that most thugs out there are probably running around with Glock 17's and what not, so you're already at a huge disadvantage rd count wise before the fight even starts.

Just something to think about

F1
January 29, 2010, 11:27 AM
It is my understanding that the average civilian gun play lasts two rounds.

woad_yurt
January 29, 2010, 11:30 AM
But at home if someone threatens the life of my wife or me then I will use the revolver first. Its always ready. Nothing to think about other than point and pull the trigger.


Same with my Star 30MI or Makarov. Both are DA/SA and have the hammer blocked unless the trigger is pulled. I'll vote the Makarov as the most dependable pistol. The Star does just as well but I don't know of anyone else who owns one so I can't comment upon whether or not they're all as good as mine. Lots of folks could chime in about the Mak, though.

Note: I keep a .38 SPL K-frame by my bed, though, as I can point shoot way better with one.

SideArmed
January 29, 2010, 11:35 AM
It is my understanding that the average civilian gun play lasts two rounds.
http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/Main-R.htm

Here is an article i found on round count. The 2-3 average may be skewed by suicide from what it was saying. Notice that table stating 16 rds average for year 2000. Since that time you figure more and more people are using autos vs revolvers so the rd count would inevitably increase.

Again not sure how accurate that article is but I will try and find the mag i was reading that had even high statistics.

jesse_roy12
January 29, 2010, 11:42 AM
The "point and pull" reason is why I do love my Winchester Defender 8100, but that is kept in a closet, where I will have enough time to actually retrieve it, i.e. hearing glass break or someone beating on the door. But in the event we don't hear anything or it's our or our daughter's window, I would like something quick, easy, and effective.......very accurate, I've heard of some hand guns where the round won't stay true and straight. There is a gun show here this weekend, that's why I'm asking.....

searcher451
January 29, 2010, 11:43 AM
The two most reliable pistols that I own are the Walther P5 and the Walther P99. I've put thousands of rounds down the pipe of both of them, with never so much as a hiccup. If I was forced to rely on a handgun for my safety, it would be one of these two.

F1
January 29, 2010, 11:43 AM
Sidearmed - But then you might also factor into the equation the number of times a gun is drawn in "situations" when the intimidation factor is enough to settle things down and no shots are fired, and that's the great majority of cases.

SideArmed
January 29, 2010, 11:48 AM
Sidearmed - But then you might also factor into the equation the number of times a gun is drawn in "situations" when the intimidation factor is enough to settle things down and no shots are fired, and that's the great majority of cases.
I agree with what you are saying but a mute point in choosing a weapon. Any "drawn gun" should have the same affect on intimidation, except maybe dirty Harry.

My biggest concern in a gunfight - what weapon are you competing with on the other side? Maybe an AR/rifle/shotgun. How many attackers are you facing? I would want to have the highest capacity I could with the largest caliber I feel confident in shooting rapidly. If this is a home defense gun I would want to be prepared for anything. I would opt for a fullsize, max capacity semi auto. If you went the revolver route - i would be "quick" on my reloads

F1
January 29, 2010, 12:11 PM
"Any "drawn gun" should have the same affect on intimidation"

Though I like pocket guns, a big gun with a big hole in the front has much more intimidation factor than a tiny gun that the bad guy might not even be able to see or might think is a toy. I think that any reloading scenario in likely civilian weapon confrontations on the street is highly unlikely.

"what weapon are you competing with on the other side..."

There's an infinite number of confrontations we can imagine, but you just need to reach a compromise between what is practical and what is likely to occur.

19-3Ben
January 29, 2010, 12:14 PM
There's an infinite number of confrontations we can imagine, but you just need to reach a compromise between what is practical and what is likely to occur.

Hence the M240b leaned against the bedpost.:D

texas bulldog
January 29, 2010, 12:21 PM
honestly, any of the reputable major manufacturers are going to be very, very close to one another in terms of reliability. glock, sig, S&W, CZ, beretta, ruger, HK, etc, etc, etc are all going to be pretty similar reliability-wise. if your wife served in iraq, maybe she'd be most comfortable with the beretta 92 (M9). or maybe she hated it...who knows? point being, you should get what the two of you shoot the best. unfortunately, what she shoots best might not fit you best, so you'll have to experiment to find something you both like and shoot well. i'd recommend going to a range that rents handguns and trying several until you hit on one you both enjoy shooting. that'll be your winner.

shockwave
January 29, 2010, 12:21 PM
I would like something quick, easy, and effective.......very accurate

At least take a look at the 686, and GP 100. Load those with .38 spl and the size and solidity of the frame will keep the round under control. Extremely accurate. If intimidation helps, these have it.

SideArmed
January 29, 2010, 12:28 PM
"Any "drawn gun" should have the same affect on intimidation"

Though I like pocket guns, a big gun with a big hole in the front has much more intimidation factor than a tiny gun that the bad guy might not even be able to see or might think is a toy. I think that any reloading scenario in likely civilian weapon confrontations on the street is highly unlikely.

"what weapon are you competing with on the other side..."

There's an infinite number of confrontations we can imagine, but you just need to reach a compromise between what is practical and what is likely to occur.
F1,

I don't care to carry this out, this debate is futile, your points made were just to argue. I have referenced a full size many times in this thread. The pocket pistol you referenced.

If what is "practical", and what is "highly unlikely" is what you want to bet on, be my guest. This is where we differ. Knowing that a Glock 17 is probably the most used 9mm currently and high cap firearms are flooding the market, i would venture and say it is "likely" that you would face a weapon of high capacity or more than one attacker with 6 or 7 rds in your own revolver. A gun fight may last 1 rd or 17, that's where that average comes into play. You may feel comfortable with 6 shots in a revolver where I do not. I can carry 17+ without an immediate worry of tracking my rounds or reloading. 'For the average person', should you have to reload the time difference from a revolver to automatic does not compare...

okiewita40
January 29, 2010, 12:35 PM
Here is a proven fact that they taught us in the police adacemy. In any given gun fight a shooters ability to hit a target drops by 70% just due to adrenaline. Given this tid bit I'll take an auto with an extra mag or two over a wheel gun.

jesse_roy12
January 29, 2010, 12:54 PM
I've had a 9mm Beretta which was a very good straight shooting gun and had 2 extra clips that I kept loaded at all times, so I had accessible to me, 37 rounds in an instant. That's a concern also, what if I'm against someone like me, with extra magazines fully loaded "just in case".....I guess just make mine count sooner......that's why I lean to semi-autos.......being that all rounds fire without mishap

w_houle
January 29, 2010, 01:01 PM
Hence the M240b leaned against the bedpost.
You don't bring a M240b to a Mk19 fight:neener:

F1
January 29, 2010, 01:03 PM
"I don't care to carry this out, this debate is futile, your points made were just to argue...."

Suit yourself, pal. I guess I've had more real life firearm experience than 99% of the people here, being a retired officer with many years working in some of the worst slums in the world, hundreds of arrests, shootouts, you name it.

Girodin
January 29, 2010, 05:47 PM
Some guys like guaranteed 100% reliability in a defense gun so they may go revolver.

My SP101 crapped out on me while my G26 and Sig have never had an issue. Nothing guaranteed to be 100%.

There are plenty of manufactures who make guns that are very reliable: Glock, sig, S&W, CZ, Beretta, Ruger, HK, etc.

Guns generally are more up to the task than the people carrying them.

Yarddog
January 29, 2010, 05:52 PM
I got a Ruger Security Six 151 Pre Fix 1975 my Daddy duty weapon, Will shoot 4in groups
at 15 yards DA. It will out live my grankids : )

angel1216
January 29, 2010, 10:20 PM
since your wife has no problem with recoil, i would suggest a shotgun for home defense. ka boom!!! sorry, i know you want a handgun. you can't go wrong with G23.

ol' scratch
January 29, 2010, 10:31 PM
If your wife was in the military, she trained on an M9. What about a Beretta 92. It is the civilian M9.
If not the Beretta what about a CZ? I have had great luck with my CZ75B. It points naturally and always (it has NEVER FAILED) goes bang when I pull the trigger.

I am not trying to dissuade you from purchasing a Glock, they are just (in my experence) more difficult to keep on target.

mljdeckard
January 29, 2010, 10:34 PM
Get rid of the 'c' idea. You haven't shot one indoors evidently.

While I don't agree that ten rounds of familiarization is 'training' on any gun, the OP said she was certified with a variety of guns. And I agree, why not a shotgun?

jackpinesavages
January 29, 2010, 11:41 PM
See sig..

:D

Boats
January 30, 2010, 12:22 AM
Just ask yourself why the majority of Police Agencies use Glock. Simple and Reliable. Works like a drawer for me.

A: Glock was the lowest bidder. The grips are shaped like drawers too.

S&Wfan
January 30, 2010, 12:31 AM
I doubt you'll find a thread like this in the revolver section. I can see it now . . .

"What's the most reliable revolver?":D:D:D

Six for sure baby!

When one wakes up from a dead sleep and needs a firearm NOW, you need something that goes "point and bang."

My nightstand gun is a .45ACP REVOLVER, with the barrel chopped to 3 1/4" and I shoot it instinctively better than any bottom feeder I own.

SEVEN HUGE HOLES, as would be viewed by an intruder . . . loaded with "Flying Ashtrays!"

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/277718/22176851.JPG

Leaky Waders
January 30, 2010, 12:58 AM
I like revolvers too...but, if you google hickok45 and watch some of his youtube videos you'll be hard not to be impressed by his glock (and all other brands) shooting/

LeontheProfessional
January 30, 2010, 01:00 AM
Really cant go wrong with a Glock, as for Gen 4: only time will tell.

Jeff23
January 30, 2010, 11:19 AM
I too do find it amazing, being somewhat new myself, to find a thread in the autoloader forum where people sincerely recommend a revolver for HD. In the mini-vault by my bed is an S&W Model 64 loaded with low-recoil Federal hydra-shock SD ammo. A speedloader and some loose rounds are also handy, as is a cell phone and flashlight. I practice alot--still learning and hope I always will be. At the moment the 64 is the only handgun I own, though I am going branch out this week. I have a shotgun in the gunsafe for when I have enough warning (dog barking, window breaking) to go and get it.

Best of luck and be careful. Choose the gun wisely then shoot it a lot, run through possible scenarios with the family, call the cops asap after you shoot--be ready to defend yourself in court if need be (read Mass Ayoob's stuff on that). I was at a Concealed Carry class where the instructor made the excellent point that picking a gun is only a fraction of the gunfight--a whole host of other factors figure in.

19-3Ben
January 30, 2010, 11:22 AM
S&Wfan is kinda rocking a Sean Connery look.

If I broke into someone's house and saw Sean Connery pointing a .45 at me, I'd run like hell too!!!

angel1216
January 30, 2010, 11:30 AM
hey sean,
hands off the trigger until you're ready to fire. also i hope you took that picture with the timer. LOL! just messing around. peace!

W.E.G.
January 30, 2010, 11:45 AM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Glock/kool_aidGlock.jpg

WRGADog
January 30, 2010, 10:34 PM
My experience is that Berettas are 100% reliable out of the box. I have never experienced any problems whatsoever with any of the Berettas I own.

CPshooter
January 31, 2010, 11:39 PM
H&K...hands down.

(Someone had to steer this guy in the right direction!:))

Blacklabelz
February 1, 2010, 12:59 AM
http://pictures.auctionarms.com/27150250/9493087/sccy%20black%20with%20box%202.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg

I would trust this gun with my life. If I could take one gun to the Alaskan wilderness to protect myself from Kodiak bears it would be this one.

NMGonzo
February 1, 2010, 02:08 AM
Most dependable?

All my pistols are dependable.

TexasBill
February 1, 2010, 05:04 AM
Practice with a revolver and an HKS Speedloader and you might be surprised how fast you can reload.

I have been very pleased with the FN-Herstal FNP-9 and the Beretta PX4 Storm, both in 9mm. The FNP-9 is a DA/SA automatic that uses a decocker instead of a standard safety, so it's ready to go when you need it. 16 rounds plus 1 in the chamber. Comes with three magazines. If you need more than 49 rounds, you're not in a gunfight: You're just having fun.

sixshooter357
February 1, 2010, 06:15 AM
for trained persons : HK P7M13

memphisjim
February 1, 2010, 06:18 AM
s&w fan where did you get a 7 shot 45acp revolver? id say typo but you typed the word out
or what did you mean by 7 huge holes?
also about your grip that extended finger looks mighty close to the cylinder gap

jesse_roy12
February 1, 2010, 10:02 AM
I am a HUGE fan of the shotgun for HD also....I own a Winchester Defender 8100 with the pistol grip instead of the normal stock, but for something small and quick.....I want a good pistol....I'm sure everyone's pistol is reliable, if not, what's the point in owning it, right? I guess I need to go to a range where you can rent different ones and go from there to see what fits us best....

golden
February 2, 2010, 01:01 AM
I have used the BERETTA 92/96, SIG 229 and GLOCK. All are just as reliable. If the gun is for your wife, she may be the most familiar with the BERETTA from military use.

I think the GLOCK will be the hardest kicker so I like a BERETTA 96 for a house gun.

I suggest you go to the range, rent several different guns and let her pick the one she can shoot the best.

Jim

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