Petition to Kimber?


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Boberama
January 29, 2010, 10:13 AM
I'm guessing that if every THR member wrote in stating that they wanted the Series II safeties removed they would produce more Series Is.

What do you think?



By the way, can you remove the Series II safety?

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MattTheHat
January 29, 2010, 10:45 AM
Problem is, many THR members simply don't care. I own a half dozen 1911s, but they're all Colts. :)

-Matt

w_houle
January 29, 2010, 11:16 AM
I guess you could , but since it interfaces the grip safety rather than the trigger, what's the point?
http://forums.1911forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4334&d=1039045624

Old Fuff
January 29, 2010, 11:34 AM
I am at a loss to understand why people buy guns of any make when they have features they object to. You don't like Kimber's bliss-nanny safety? Buy some other make and model that doesn't have it. Smith & Wesson's internal lock makes you :cuss:? Buy an older one or a revolver made by somebody else. When manufacturers get hit with a decline in sales they'll make changes. Otherwise it's unlikely.

Robert
January 29, 2010, 11:50 AM
For the price of a Kimber I'd much rather have an STI. And I would assume that Kimber is more concerned with liability than what a few key board commandos think. If it is really that big of an issue, why not buy a different weapon. Or take it to a smith and see if he can remove the safety at issue.

zstephens13
January 29, 2010, 12:02 PM
I don't understand why that sort of safety would even be a problem...

blkbrd666
January 29, 2010, 12:06 PM
Just don't buy one...same with an S&W lock.

Walkalong
January 29, 2010, 12:07 PM
I don't understand why that sort of safety would even be a problem...

Because it's unnecassary and just another way for the gun to fail. So why have it? Lawers of course, and scared gun makers.

Rexster
January 29, 2010, 12:55 PM
My pre-Series II Kimbers were finicky. Three strikes, Kimber is out, and I won't give them another inning.

JoeSlomo
January 29, 2010, 01:02 PM
I'm guessing that if every THR member wrote in stating that they wanted the Series II safeties removed they would produce more Series Is.

What do you think?



The only thing that will effect Kimber is a reduction in sales, which they obviously have not experienced as a result of the series II models.

By the way, can you remove the Series II safety?

The safety rests under the rear sight and can be easily removed when changing out the sight. I don't like that particular style of safety simply because without access for cleaning and inspection, I feel it is a risk to function as I can't tell if it's gunked up, damaged, or worn. Hence, I took it out when I went to a different sight set up. I like to be able to inspect and maintain ALL of my parts.

EddieNFL
January 29, 2010, 03:00 PM
Problem is, many THR members simply don't care.

I don't. Already given them their last chance.

Thaddeus Jones
January 29, 2010, 03:14 PM
People keep buying Kimbers.......and S&W's, regardless of the quality......or lack of quality, and regardless of what idiotic nanny devices are installed in them. They buy these handguns regardless, and pay ALOT of money for them.

Why? Don't know any better? Hopeless newbs taken advantage of at the gunshop? Brand loyalists? Who knows.

But as long as those two manufacturers are making profits, QA/QC will continue to decline, and they can put any crap they want in those guns......because someone will fork over the cash for them.

Not me. I'll give my hard earned money to Colt, Springfield, and Ruger before I give a thin dime to Kimber or S&W. My 0.02 TJ

M2 Carbine
January 29, 2010, 05:50 PM
What do you think?
I have five Kimbers and they are my choice for carry. IMO it's a non issue.

On the other hand I buy pre lock Smiths.

ohioshooter
January 29, 2010, 07:55 PM
This is a good thread to see that people that don't like Kimbers have had countless problems with the one, two, or three of the ones they had. Ok, that's fine but you can't assume that everyone that has had a problem with a particular firearm is on THR. You ask enough people and you'll find just as many mishaps with some of the other companies as well. That's just the law of averages.

jahwarrior
January 29, 2010, 08:10 PM
instead of complaining about a Kimber, why don't you just buy another 1911 that works just as well without it, for less money? i'd never buy a Kimber, not because of the bad reputation they have, but i refuse to pay that much for one, when i could get one just as nice for much less.

blkbrd666
January 29, 2010, 08:36 PM
instead of complaining about a Kimber, why don't you just buy another 1911 that works just as well without it, for less money? i'd never buy a Kimber, not because of the bad reputation they have, but i refuse to pay that much for one, when i could get one just as nice for much less.


Bingo!!! S&W will never get any money from me on a revolver because of the safety lock...I buy used old models. Collectors stashed enough of them away to last my lifetime. I do have a SW1911 I bought used...I would stack it up against a Kimber in a heartbeat. I believe it's more the owner than it is the gun...in most cases. Problems: Maybe I am lucky, but I have never sent a gun back to the manufacturer for repair...have never taken a gun to a gunsmith. So, a warranty of any type or length doesn't really mean much to me. I just don't get it. Is there ANYONE on here that doesn't have problems with their guns??? I'm curious...starting to feel very lucky. Crap, I'm ranting and getting off topic...sorry!

orionengnr
January 29, 2010, 09:06 PM
I just bought Kimber #9 recently (actually my fiancee bought this one, a new Ultra CDP, after shooting my old pre-Series II Ultra CDP).

I have Series II and pre-Series II Kimbers, and have apparently had exceptional luck so far. :rolleyes: I take one or more to the range every week, I reload and go through a fair bit of ammo.

I have owned Colts, Paras, Springfields, and others. Even a Les Baer. The Kimbers have been the only brand that have consistently worked for me. It it what is on my hip as I type this.

Bottom line--while I prefer the pre-Series II Kimbers, I have no issue with the Series II 1911s. IMHO, the Swarts safety is a better design than the Colt Series 80 FPS...less intrusive although perhaps more difficult to remove/defeat.

Ron James
January 29, 2010, 09:21 PM
Odd world we live in, I buy guns to shoot, if for some reason I don't like them, I sell them and get another. I don't cry to the whole world about a feature that I personally don't like. As for as Kimbers, Maybe I'm lucky,because both of mine are reliable, accurate firearms. I have no reason to rag them.:banghead:

w_houle
January 30, 2010, 12:21 PM
But as long as those two manufacturers are making profits, QA/QC will continue to decline, and they can put any crap they want in those guns......because someone will fork over the cash for them.
I would think that if you really believed this: You would be awfully hard pressed to find a company up to these standards, and definitely not the ones you mentioned.

HexHead
January 30, 2010, 02:03 PM
I don't understand why that sort of safety would even be a problem...
Because if you inadvertently depress the grip safety while removing the slide or reinstalling it (more likely), you're liable to shear off the piston for the Swartz safety, rendering the pistol inoperable. While I never had that happen with the two Kimbers I owned, it made field stripping them while being sure not to touch the back of the grip a PITA compared to my other 1911s.

Mags
January 30, 2010, 02:47 PM
I have owned a 70 series Colt, a Sig GSR, Springfield Loaded, Para GI, Springfield GI, Taurus PT1911, and 3 Kimbers all within a year as I searched for the perfect Goverment and Commander 1911 for my preference. I currently own just two Kimbers and if I buy another 1911 it will say Kimber on the slide. I don't care about a schwartz safety or anything else I like my Kimber the way it is and thats that.

.45&TKD
January 30, 2010, 06:22 PM
........Les Baer. The Kimbers have been the only brand that have consistently worked for me.

You had a problem with your Les Baer?

mljdeckard
January 30, 2010, 06:29 PM
My Kimber is the best handgun I have ever owned.

No, I don't think that if we all wrote to Kimber they would change. If you don't like the series II safeties, buy something else. I've never had a problem with them.

It's a BAD idea to disable any safety on a handgun.

Geno
January 30, 2010, 06:29 PM
Kimber?! What's a Kimber? Never heard o' it. :cool: I've heard of Colts, and have a couple of those in the corral. Kimber, you say?! Hmmph. Guess ya learn sumpin' ever' day. :evil: And I learnt my lesson reeeal good. I buy myself Colts.

Geno

Zach S
January 30, 2010, 08:02 PM
To me, the Series II marks when Kimber started having problems. There were quite a few NIB guns that wouldn't fire because the some of those new parts were out of spec.

When they got that fixed, small parts started breaking like crazy. Sometimes within the first box of ammo, sometimes a few thousand rounds later.

When I started seeing fewer broken parts threads, they went to the external extractor...

The four I have run flawlessly, and weren't expensive ($500 -$650). If I buy any more kimbers, they'll be series Is as well. I couldn't care less about what they do with their new ones.

david_the_greek
January 30, 2010, 08:21 PM
My fathers series I kimber was a great firearm.... unfortunately my series II kimber is a... great firearm. I love mine and could care less about others disliking of them. Mine has proven itself to me, for what I use it for. My S&W 442 with lock has also been good, although there was a slight issue with something not being loctited that should have been, nothing has gone wrong with that damn ugly useless internal lock though.

david_the_greek
January 30, 2010, 08:24 PM
Could someone please elaborate on HexHeads comments? I'd like to know about the potential downfalls of this system. I have yet to have any problems and i do believe I've reassembled in such a fashion. Info is greatly appreciated.

.45&TKD
January 30, 2010, 08:52 PM
Read my FP Safety experience at the link below. Not totally bad, but still something to be aware of, especially is you are buying used.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=307397

StarDust1
January 30, 2010, 10:32 PM
There is only one 1911.

Confederate
January 30, 2010, 11:09 PM
Safeties don't bother me too much, but a lack of safeties does.

For those of us who don't know, what's the difference between the Series 1 and 2?

Kimber makes a gorgeous gun, but what gets me about them is that too many of them just aren't reliable out of the box. I've also seen them jam on the range. If you pay that much for a gun, it ought to be flawless out of the box. I talk to people with Berettas, Sigs and S&Ws who just clean them and go to town -- bang, bang, bang! No jams. Glocks, too. I have a S&W 645 that came out of the box flawless. Still is. And it's cheaper than a Kimber.

Another 1911 that seems to jam is the little Colt .45 (the sawed off ones). Beauties they are, but I wouldn't trust one out of the box.

BTW, ten points to the person who can identify the film where this came from! (And if you can't, shame on you!)

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/GIwithPistol.jpg

This S&W 645 is massive, but it sure does the job. I don't even care that it has a magazine safety!

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/SW645_5b.jpg

f4t9r
January 30, 2010, 11:21 PM
thank God for Kimbers. What in the world would we talk and complain about if we did not have them.

StarDust1
January 30, 2010, 11:33 PM
Safeties don't bother me too much, but a lack of safeties does.

For those of us who don't know, what's the difference between the Series 1 and 2?

Kimber makes a gorgeous gun, but what gets me about them is that too many of them just aren't reliable out of the box. I've also seen them jam on the range. If you pay that much for a gun, it ought to be flawless out of the box. I talk to people with Berettas, Sigs and S&Ws who just clean them and go to town -- bang, bang, bang! No jams. Glocks, too. I have a S&W 645 that came out of the box flawless. Still is. And it's cheaper than a Kimber.

Another 1911 that seems to jam is the little Colt .45 (the sawed off ones). Beauties they are, but I wouldn't trust one out of the box.

BTW, ten points to the person who can identify the film where this came from! (And if you can't, shame on you!)

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/GIwithPistol.jpg

This S&W 645 is massive, but it sure does the job. I don't even care that it has a magazine safety!

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/SW645_5b.jpg
Historically, 1911's are notoriously unreliable from the box, particularly the custom & semi-custom efforts.
These days there seems to be significant improvement in that you can shoot them into excellent working order on your own, even up to feeding JHP's, without the need of the attentions of a gunsmith to polish and throat them.

mljdeckard
January 31, 2010, 12:22 AM
Stardust, that assertion is outdated 20 years. There isn't a single production 1911 on the market now that won't feed JHPs.

I owned a Colt. I don't remember anything so special about it.

StarDust1
January 31, 2010, 12:31 AM
Stardust, that assertion is outdated 20 years. There isn't a single production 1911 on the market now that won't feed JHPs.

I owned a Colt. I don't remember anything so special about it.
"Historically" mean anything to you? Colt 1911's are the definitive 1911's, period! You might shoot a Kimber, but investors collect Colt's!

wilkersk
January 31, 2010, 12:46 AM
I really like my Kimber Stainless II. Picked it up for a song from someone who was a disgruntled Kimber owner. One of the better purchases I've made.

Mags
January 31, 2010, 08:20 AM
Kimber makes a gorgeous gun, but what gets me about them is that too many of them just aren't reliable out of the box. I've also seen them jam on the range. If you pay that much for a gun, it ought to be flawless out of the box.In the Kimber manual that comes with your gun it states a 4-500 round break in period, again if you don't like that fact don't buy a Kimber so you can gripe about it's design later.
"Historically" mean anything to you? Colt 1911's are the definitive 1911's, period! You might shoot a Kimber, but investors collect Colt's! If it wasn't a WWII issued firearm I could give a rats behind about the history and even then I would rather have a Remington Rand. What history does a 1973 Colt have or a 1991A1?

Ruggles
January 31, 2010, 12:44 PM
"Historically, 1911's are notoriously unreliable from the box, particularly the custom & semi-custom efforts."


No disrespect but that is the most inaccurate thing I have read in a long time. The platform is 100 years old and has been in consistent use in every major American conflict in that 100 years. It is easily one of the most prolific and popular handgun platforms in history. Hardly the facts about a platform that "are notoriously unreliable from the box"

The 1911 is one of if not the most combat proven handgun in history. Simple fact that seems to really piss some folks off none the less.

Also for the record I have no issues with the Series II Kimbers.

9teenEleven
January 31, 2010, 03:10 PM
I have a Kimber Series II. Much has been written about how users need to be careful not to depress the grip safety when putting the slide back on, but it is more complicated than that. If, like I have seen many 1911 users do, you hold the slide upside-down when reattaching the lower to stop the guide rod from falling out of place, the Schwartz piece does the same as it does if you have the grip safety depressed. Honestly, I have a ding on the back of the slide from when I first bought the gun from exactly this, and I am lucky I don't have a broken part from it. I saw nothing in the manual to address it.

FWIW, My Kimber now runs like a clock, without a single malfunction in thousands of rounds. However, out of the box, and well after the break in period it had a tendency to not feed the last round in a mag. The problem got worse and worse. It went back to Kimber, who did fix it, but yet another Kimber not working out of the box. This is my favorite gun, and most reliable now, but I wish it didn't have the Schwartz. I get a feeling one day that little flap of metal is gonna break, or the system is going to get gummed up and I won't see it because it is hidden under the rear sight.

StarDust1
January 31, 2010, 05:43 PM
"Historically, 1911's are notoriously unreliable from the box, particularly the custom & semi-custom efforts."


No disrespect but that is the most inaccurate thing I have read in a long time. The platform is 100 years old and has been in consistent use in every major American conflict in that 100 years. It is easily one of the most prolific and popular handgun platforms in history. Hardly the facts about a platform that "are notoriously unreliable from the box"

The 1911 is one of if not the most combat proven handgun in history. Simple fact that seems to really piss some folks off none the less.

Also for the record I have no issues with the Series II Kimbers.
No disrespect intended, but you're dead wrong, way dead wrong!

StarDust1
January 31, 2010, 05:45 PM
In the Kimber manual that comes with your gun it states a 4-500 round break in period, again if you don't like that fact don't buy a Kimber so you can gripe about it's design later.
If it wasn't a WWII issued firearm I could give a rats behind about the history and even then I would rather have a Remington Rand. What history does a 1973 Colt have or a 1991A1?
A rampant Colt etched into their slides....

Big Bill
January 31, 2010, 05:46 PM
Don't own a Kimber. Don't want a kimber. Ain't gonna buy one neither.

w_houle
January 31, 2010, 05:55 PM
Don't own a Kimber. Don't want a Kimber. Ain't gonna buy one neither.
Too many others out there to worry about what this company makes, but they aren't bad.

rogertc1
January 31, 2010, 06:35 PM
This is the only and true 1911A!

Vintage WW firearms

http://coltrevolver.umwblogs.org/files/2009/04/1941coltl.jpg

Guillermo
February 3, 2010, 05:11 PM
as I have no intention of buying a Kimber I shant write them.

Glock Holiday
February 3, 2010, 07:59 PM
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x42/Glockholiday/sw1-2.jpg
Just buy a nice S&W 1911 and be done with it.

smoothdraw
February 4, 2010, 02:11 PM
Kimber are beautiful guns. I have 2 and my carry is a Kimber pro carry. But after the 2 I stopped buying Kimbers. (As I understand guns better). My last 1911 is a series 70 colt repro and my next one is a Glock 17 4th generation. I don't plan to buy Kimbers or if i will do it again i will not spend money on kimbers. If they offer me a series one with non MIM items and keep the prices to what they are now then maybe. My cheaper ultra reliable, more beautiful blued 70 colt series repro shoots about the same as my ultra tight kimbers. While colts have better metals. (and better history to boot)

smoothdraw
February 4, 2010, 02:14 PM
I do not like external extractors. They are ugly. How about Just buy a nice Colt 1911 (like that of RoigerTC1) and be done with it?

I'm pretty sure S&W are good also. I have a 686. But external extractors???

smoothdraw
February 4, 2010, 02:16 PM
this is the only and true 1911a!

Vintage ww firearms

http://coltrevolver.umwblogs.org/files/2009/04/1941coltl.jpg
nice !!!

Mags
February 4, 2010, 03:03 PM
I do not like external extractors. They are ugly. How about Just buy a nice Colt 1911 (like that of RoigerTC1) and be done with it?

I'm pretty sure S&W are good also. I have a 686. But external extractors??? S&W 1911s have external extractors, current production Kimbers do not, older Kimber do. Please get your facts straight before bashing a Mimber. Thanx.

ol' scratch
February 6, 2010, 11:27 PM
There are SO many manufacturers of 1911's out there. If you don't want the safety, pick up a different 1911. Colts are around the same price as many Kimbers. S&W is also around the same price. Paras, Springfields, etc.

Have you ever used a Kimber with the new safety? I have a newer Custom II with the safety and internal extractor. It has never failed me.

ol' scratch
February 7, 2010, 09:49 AM
Kimber are beautiful guns. I have 2 and my carry is a Kimber pro carry. But after the 2 I stopped buying Kimbers. (As I understand guns better). My last 1911 is a series 70 colt repro and my next one is a Glock 17 4th generation. I don't plan to buy Kimbers or if i will do it again i will not spend money on kimbers. If they offer me a series one with non MIM items and keep the prices to what they are now then maybe. My cheaper ultra reliable, more beautiful blued 70 colt series repro shoots about the same as my ultra tight kimbers. While colts have better metals. (and better history to boot)
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't ALL 1911's in this price range made with MIM parts? Even the Colts? Here is an older 2003 thread from THR on the subject.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-3725.html

MICHAEL T
February 7, 2010, 06:42 PM
I don't understand why that sort of safety would even be a problem...

I have a friend his has broken twice . That's one reason He isn't happy with his.

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