[faizi]

Can Brenneke 12 gauge slugs defeat Level 3A vest?
What about Foster type hollow point ones?

[627PCFan]

Neither, however impact trauma would still be signifigant-

[faizi]

What about Level 3 vest?

[627PCFan]

Nope.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot16_4.htm

Not scientific but close enough.

[jmortimer]

The Brenneke slug may not penetrate but will at least incapcitate and possibly kill the BG/victim. The flex in the vest will extend some inches - 4" ???- what ever tissue behind that will get damaged. Read a story about a SWAT officer hit by a Brenneke Slug and died as a bone (rib or strenum or collar bone) was broken and penetrated his heart. The Box-O-Truth tested a soft Foster style slug and still left quite an impression behind the vest. The Brenneke hard cast slug would not flatten out and would "penetrate" - i.e. push into the victim much further. For sure the bg/victim would be incapacitated even if they lived which they probably would.

[The Deer Hunter]

Not scientific but close enough.

I think it's a good indicator, as real world situations are never in ideal conditions. I was surprised that the brenneke didn't go through, however I understand why it didn't.

Aim for the head.

[Dave McCracken]

Head, Schmead. I doubt anyone hit solid in the armor with any Brenekke will pose much of a threat for a good long while.

Blunt Force Trauma.....

[batmann]

Our primary purpose in HD is to incapcitate the intruder. If he is wearing a vest, it is good to know that the truma would probably stop him. The slug may not penetrate, but it will most likely stop 'em.

[Sebastian the Ibis]

There was an entry team in Florida that decided to try negotiation again after a slug went through their ballistic shield. I believe it was a brenneke hard cast.

I don't know what the shield was rated, but assume 3 or better.

[Dimis]

will a level 3A vest stop a babe ruth swing from a baseball bat?
nope
will it stop the guy in the vest?
oh yea

[Marty183]

FWIW, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any slug to a vest...Especially a Brenneke.

[DBR]

I've settled on the Federal Tactical low recoil foster slugs as primary. They penetrate less than OO buck (by Federal's tests) and I only have to worry about one projectile. I am quite sure that armor or not I will get a stop with a good hit.

I carry Brennekes on the butt cuff for the woods where bear or moose is more likely to be a problem.

[jojo200517]

I would be interested to see what the Black Magic magnums would do, they sure make the KO's look weak sauce.

[tkopp]

I imagine sabots with a smaller frontal surface area and higher velocity would puncture armor like most rifle rounds.

[jmortimer]

I have a feeling the Brenneke Black Magic would put a hurt on you no matter what kind of protection you had on. A .70 plus caliber hard cast. Wow.

[Evil One]

Getting hit by a Black Magic would be like walking out in front of a bus.
It MAY not penetrate, Im not convinced of this, but it would pulverize everything behind where it hit.


Jim

[Mp7]

... thats actually one of the best pro arguments for a semi shotgun
so far.

4.7mm will penetrate ...

a slug will do the job.

the north holly shootout
woul probably have been over
if the cops had slugs ...
....even pumpkinballs ...

[627PCFan]

" imagine sabots with a smaller frontal surface area and higher velocity would puncture armor like most rifle rounds.'

I thought so too, and popped off a Remington Copper Saboted slug into 2 back to back old telephone books (dry) from 5 feet. The hollow point shrunk down on impact and turned into a pseudo-FMJ rather than expanding pedals.

[Mp7]

at JR

... i could imagine kevlar mesh being a bit
different thant phonebooks ....

just intuition.

[RMc]

The Brenneke slug may not penetrate but will at least incapcitate and possibly kill the BG/victim. The flex in the vest will extend some inches - 4" ???- what ever tissue behind that will get damaged. Read a story about a SWAT officer hit by a Brenneke Slug and died as a bone (rib or strenum or collar bone) was broken and penetrated his heart. The Box-O-Truth tested a soft Foster style slug and still left quite an impression behind the vest. The Brenneke hard cast slug would not flatten out and would "penetrate" - i.e. push into the victim much further. For sure the bg/victim would be incapacitated even if they lived which they probably would.
Brenneke slugs are swaged lead and are softer than hard cast, let alone heat treated hard cast like Dixie Slugs.

[Wingnut13]

I like slugs......

[glazer1972]

A Brenneke 2 3/4" 1 1/4 oz. Heavy Field Slug will penetrate two 30# freon cans filled with water.

[jmortimer]

The use both swaging and casting and they use a hard alloy. So it depends on what product what process is used. Essentially they are a "solid" slug made with a hard alloy and will not flatten out or "pancake" like a foster slug. You can see their slug casting machine on page 3 of the PDF linked from their site. That is why they out penetrate most every slug except the Dixie slugs. http://www.brennekeusa.com/web/pdf/World-Famous_Brenneke_Firm.pdf

[RMc]

jmortimer "The use both swaging and casting and they use a hard alloy. So it depends on what product what process is used. Essentially they are a "solid" slug made with a hard alloy and will not flatten out or "pancake" like a foster slug. You can see their slug casting machine on page 3 of the PDF linked from their site. That is why they out penetrate most every slug except the Dixie slugs."

A couple of years ago I enquired about the BHN rating of Brenneke's top of the line slugs. BrennekeUSA declined to answer. I suspected the alloy used was harder than unalloyed lead, but did not think the Brenneke design was cast.

[jmortimer]

I think you may be right - the Black Magic "Style" may be swaged it is hard to tell. I could not find any info any BHN of the slug but I did find numerous references to Brenneke using a hard lead alloy. From what I've seen in testing and field results it must be. I did use the tern "hard cast" loosely - they may be swaged but the are "hard" as compared to pure lead. As you well know the Dixie is "hard cast" at 30 BHN or so. Unless James/Dixie brings back the "Tusker" I'll use Tri-Ball and Brenneke Slugs because I like smoothbores.