FFL


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Sharkee
January 30, 2010, 02:31 AM
How do you go about getting a FFL?

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kingpin008
January 30, 2010, 02:54 AM
First, make sure you have your ducks in a row locally. Make sure that you either have a storefront lined up, or are allowed to run a business from your home in your locale. Then get the requisite tax forms and business licenses.

Then, when all that's done, go to www.atf.gov and download the forms for an 01 FFL. Fill them out, send them in along with the required fees, and await a visit from an agent. Once your interview is over, if you pass and your locality allows you to go into business, you get your FFL and start doing business.

Sharkee
January 30, 2010, 03:33 AM
Thanks for the information.

mgkdrgn
January 30, 2010, 09:14 AM
Your biggest hurdle is going to be state/local requirements, not federal.

Seeing as how you are in California, I'd double down on that observation.

dogtown tom
January 30, 2010, 09:32 AM
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/become-an-ffl.html

kingpin008: ...Then, when all that's done, go to www.atf.gov and download the forms for an 01 FFL...
Form 7 iis not downloadable. You have to order it http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/


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SaxonPig
January 30, 2010, 10:00 AM
#68, one of the longer ones.

In addition to what is posted below, add the fact that you live in CA where many cities and counties are decidedly anti-gun and may prohibit dealing in firearms within their boundaries or at least may require a business address other than your home address.

Check with city and county officials before calling the ATF as the federal requirements are likely far less onerous than are the state and local hurdles to getting an FFL in CA. If you are not serious about being a serious gun dealer forget it.

-----------------------------------------

Get an FFL?

68. People ask about getting an FFL at home. Most if not all of the following will apply when obtaining an FFL.

1. Business license from city. May require zoning (and parking) meeting. May require public meeting to let neighbors know what you plan to do at home. There may be lawsuits by unhappy neighbors.

2. Business license from county.

3. State tax certificate from state.

4. Deposit paid to state Tax Board against future tax collections.

5. File quarterly tax report. (Don't like doing your taxes every year? Now you do them every three months.)

5. Homeowner's insurance will refuse payment if you file a claim and didn't tell them you had a business in your home. If you tell them then your insurance cost will go up if they don't cancel you outright.

7. File papers with Worker's Comp Office that you have no paid employees.

8. Now apply to ATF for FFL. Pay $200 for the first 3 years. Keep meticulous records of all acquisitions and dispositions. Do not make any mistakes. Expect to be inspected by an ATF agent at least every 24 months and maybe more often or at any time they feel like it. You surrender much of your privacy when you have an FFL.

9. Now you have strangers knowing you have guns and where you live. In fact, it likely becomes a matter of public record.

Some people get the idea having an FFL will save them money when they buy guns for themselves. An FFL is not for personal use. It's a license to do business so if you are not seriously interested in being in the gun selling business then forget it. Find an FFL who charges a reasonable fee to transfer your guns and let him deal with the headaches that come with the FFL.

dogtown tom
January 30, 2010, 02:20 PM
SaxonPig #68...
8. Now apply to ATF for FFL. Pay $200 per year. Keep meticulous records of all acquisitions and dispositions. Do not make any mistakes. Expect to be inspected by an ATF agent at least every 24 months and maybe more often or at any time they feel like it. You surrender much of your privacy when you have an FFL.



You keep posting this and it's still incorrect.:banghead:

1. It's not $200 per year. The fee is $200 for THREE YEARS, each three year renewal is $90 after the initial period.
2. ATF cannot inspect "anytime they feel like it". ATF is allowed ONE compliance inspection per YEAR. The last time an ATF Industry Operations Investigator visited me was over eighteen months ago.
3. You don't surrender anything by having an FFL. There is no requirement to let anyone in your home (if that is your licensed premises). And since almost ALL of those who ask about a HOME FFL business expect to do business in the HOME, this "surrender of privacy" seems to be a non issue.

SaxonPig
January 30, 2010, 02:57 PM
Tom, take a pill, dude. If you get this worked up over a tiny bit of incorrect info on FFL fees how do you deal with real issues?

I fixed the fee thing that seems to be causing you intestinal cramps but how can you say that you don't give up privacy with an FFL when the feds can come into your home ANYTIME they want? Not so if you don't have an FFL. Also, the FFL and other required licenses makes you and your business a matter of public record.

Oh, that's right. According to your friend the ATF can only visit you once a year. You tell them that when they come around 3 times in one year like they did to me. Maybe regular inspections can only be scheduled once per year but they come anytime they have a specific reason (which they can make up at will). In my case every time I purchased guns at police auctions they came around 30 days later asking to see my records and the guns I bought. They said some dealers were not logging auction purchases. They said... May also have been that this was about the time the ATF started hounding casual FFLs out of business.

I stand by this one with 100% conviction. You most certainly DO give up some personal privacy by having an FFL.

dogtown tom
January 30, 2010, 05:27 PM
...worked up over a tiny bit of incorrect info...
"Worked up.."? Hardly. It's more like tired of the internet FFL myths that never go away. It's been pointed out before that you were wrong about fees, etc., yet you continue to post it as fact.

...how can you say that you don't give up privacy with an FFL when the feds can come into your home ANYTIME they want?
With reasonable cause and a search warrant they can come into ANY home, not just an FFL's. An FFL has the EXACT same civil rights as anyone else regarding unreasonable search and seizure.

According to your friend the ATF can only visit you once a year.
I didn't get that information from a friend, it's straight from ATF:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/factsheets/factsheet-ffl-compliance.html
I've shown where ATF is limited to one warrantless compliance inspection per year. Could you be so kind as to show me where it says ATF can come into my home at any time for any reason, without a search warrant?



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SaxonPig
January 30, 2010, 07:46 PM
C'mon. Quit making MOUNTAINS out of molehills.

My mistake on the FFL fee is hardly an "Internet Myth." George Carlin and Andy Rooney writing conservative essays would be Internet Myths. All I did was err in the dollar amount of the FFL fee.

You really think the ATF needs a warrant to check out an FFL any time they want? I was never shown a warrant. My favorite gun shop nearly went out of business last year when inspectors showed up 5 or 6 times in six months looking for nit-picky recording errors. Once they have you in their sights, they keep coming until they nail you for something.

Read the regs. You are describing the basic "Compliance Inspection" which is limited to once per year. But check out the little thing called the "Recall Inspection." This enables them to conduct as many inspections as they want following the initial Compliance Inspection anytime they feel the need and THEY decide what justifies that need. Says the same thing about the C&R, too, although many folks don't realize it. So far the ATF doesn't seem interested in snooping the C&R books and premises like they do the 001 FFLs, but they have the legal authority to do it.

dogtown tom
January 30, 2010, 08:25 PM
I take it you no longer hold an FFL?

:rolleyes:

SaxonPig
January 31, 2010, 10:18 AM
I do not. I relocated in another state in 1992 and discovered that the city where I lived prohibited any business from being operated out of the home. So after 9 years of having it I let the FFL expire. It was not revoked because despite the numerous visits by the ATF that one year I was a meticulous record keeper and always had my ducks in a row. Must have frustrated the hell out of them.

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