5.56 picture thread?


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Ragnar Danneskjold
January 30, 2010, 05:27 PM
I posted in the thread someone made with pictures of the damage the 5.56mm round can do to people. Since I'm at work, I was away from my computer for the last 15 minutes or so. Now the thread is gone. Is there a reason for this? Is this not an adult forum where we discuss the real life consequences of firearms and shooting? There are hundreds of threads dealing with the "fun" of firearms. We've all seen holes in paper. Target shooting is fun. Trap and skeet are fun. Hunting is fun. Collecting guns and keeping up with the latest models is fun. Reading gun magazines and going to SHOT show and learning about the latest gadgets is fun. And even going to classes and ranges to learn "combat shooting" is fun. But how many people here have not been fully exposed to the very real aspect of firearms that is shooting another person? That's not a fun topic. But it is real. And it's something that every one of us needs to know about and think about if we have even considered using a firearm for defense. I think deleting that thread was a disservice to the forum. We can talk all day about calibers and ballistic gel, new sights, spin rates, bullet weights, new gun designs, tactics, and a hundred other things. But if we don't know what happens after you pull that trigger against another person, we don't really have a firm grasp of what it means to defend yourself with a firearm. Those pictures were terrible to be sure. But I think carrying a gun yet not really knowing that is what happens when a bullet hits a person is even worse. I'm sorry if I seem macabre, but that's just my opinion about it.

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Boba Fett
January 30, 2010, 06:16 PM
I think this is the thread you were looking for:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=501980

Stopping power ? weak 5.56 ? (explicit pictures) - THR
A friend of mine (Darius), on Feu-Libre, recently posted a serie of pictures that he got from a friend in Mexico, about a Police operation that didn't go ...


But it looks like it was closed.


I suggest you try google. That's how I found the THR page you were looking for and I'm sure you will find 5.56 kill shots if you do some searches.


Personally, I don't care to see such stuff. I have seen what rounds can do, doesn't bother me too much, but it bothers me enough to know I'm not completely desensitized to it (which I figure is a good thing).


As for 5.56 effectiveness, if it can take down wild hogs, I think it can take down people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiHmYsyVniE

Ragnar Danneskjold
January 30, 2010, 06:26 PM
I don't need to Google search for it. I've seen it with my own two eyes. I was directing this at the forum in general. I think we focus too much on firearms as fun objects of recreation, but when speaking about them as weapons, we talk about everything before you pull the trigger, and nothing about what happens after, except legally. I think that is not the right mindset to have.

Shung
January 30, 2010, 06:29 PM
It was my thread but got erased. I can fully understand the mods not wanting too explicit and crude pictures here, but i'd have apreciated a PM telling me that the thread had to be removed..

I fully understand that people having known/seen war do know what these things really do, and I don't want to bother them with those images, but for civilians or military personnel that never saw combat, it's , in my opinion, a good thing to have an insight of reality.. It can get you more carefull and serious about what you do, and how you treat your guns. It can also proove you that you are not going to fight with a toy gun, even if it's 5.56..

PublicRelations
January 30, 2010, 06:32 PM
Sounds like you have a legitimate argument. I tried clicking the link to the thread that Boba Fett posted but I was denied access.

Maybe you can point us to a link outside of this forum with the pictures? Those that are interested will likely click through.

Ragnar Danneskjold
January 30, 2010, 06:35 PM
I fully understand that people having known/seen war do know what these things really do, and I don't want to bother them with those images, but for civilians or military personnel that never saw combat, it's , in my opinion, a good thing to have an insight of reality.. It can get you more carefull and serious about what you do, and how you treat your guns. It can also show you that you are not going to fight with a toy gun, even if it's 5.56..

I agree. That's why I think it was wrong for the mods to delete the thread. I fully believe there are throngs of people on this forum who own and shoot guns, and even carry, but who have never seen a bullet pierce anything but paper. That is a shame. And trying to shield people from seeing what bullets can really do, is in my opinion, actually harmful.

Shung
January 30, 2010, 06:38 PM
the exact copy of this thread can be read on arfcom:

I won't be posting any direct link to respect the mods decision, but you can find it at :

http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=1

then go to the World Events room .... and look for : Stopping power ? weak 5.56mm ? thread

Larry Ashcraft
January 30, 2010, 06:49 PM
I took it offline until I can get more input from staff on it. I'm not too squeamish, but a couple of those images were very disturbing.

I agree that educating people on what firearms can actually do has great value, I just question how far you need to go to do so, especially on a family board. I got the message across to my kids when they were young by using watermelons and a 12 ga.

Shung
January 30, 2010, 06:56 PM
but a couple of those images were very disturbing.

I agree and understand your move.

That is also why I did put a triple warning before anyone could actually see them.

thank your for your explanation here !

Rubber_Duck
January 30, 2010, 06:56 PM
There is this thread over at m4carbine.net showing the full fragmentation effects of a 55-grain FMJ on a human leg, though not as horrific and violent as those that were gunned down in Mexico in the previous link.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31666

I also agree that while not pretty to look at, everybody who owns firearms should see these pics of what they are capable of doing to the human body so we don't get too complacent and comfortable with firearms, and remind ourselves that while fun and entertaining, firearms is a dangerous hobby. Doesn't have to be a drug-related gun battle, it can be as little as a negligent discharge in your own garage.

BULLSI
January 30, 2010, 07:27 PM
Im sure that here are some people here that arent interested in what a gunshot can do to a person and they only own guns to shot at paper. Im sure that anyone that is interested in what happens to a person when they get shot that they would be able to find out about it in four clicks of their mouse if they wanted to on the internet.

This is a THR we cant have threads about guns in movies let alone pictures of something like the guy in the SUV. I thought that it was pretty gruesome to post here should have had a link maybe, looking at that didnt bother me but it was pretty bad and probably not for this forum.

With that said there isnt much to talk about what happens when a person is shot. It will proably hurt alot, leave you disfigured and maybe you will end up like the guy in that car that was posted.

I guess you could talk about how to treat a gunshot wound if someone were shot till they got proper medical treatment that may fly here but the original post proabably not and obviously not.

PublicRelations
January 30, 2010, 07:42 PM
This thread reminds me of those drunk driving and vehicle accident videos that are shown to make people think twice about driving recklessly.

I also believe everyone should see those pictures, because otherwise, you may be disillusioned about the reality that exists. Anyone that shoots a gun should know the reality of potential carnage that a gun can cause. Those images do a good job of communicating that carnage. It's true that gelatin imitations are no match for the reality of destroyed flesh.

Both the leg pics and the Mexico pics are humbling. The leg pic shows more detail on what bullet can do to human flesh. It was interesting to see because I had no idea what a bullet could actually do to the human body. Those x-rays were very interesting as well.

I'm not sure if children should be exposed to such violence, but adults should absolutely know the potential damage they can cause by firing a gun, in my opinion. Just like in those car accident videos that we watched when we were 16 and learning to drive.

Thanks for posting the links.

PublicRelations
January 30, 2010, 07:54 PM
I'm not too squeamish, but a couple of those images were very disturbing.

That is exactly the point. You should be disturbed by those images. Or rather, you should be humbled by those images. Nobody should be excited by those images, and some people might be indifferent because of already being exposed and humbled. What is the argument for not viewing those images? I think the good it does (by humbling us) outweighs the bad (of being temporarily "disturbed").

Just my opinion though.

Shung
January 30, 2010, 07:56 PM
This thread reminds me of those drunk driving and vehicle accident videos that are shown to make people think twice about driving recklessly.

this is exactly how it was intended to be seen..

+ there is so much 5.56mm "bashing" and comments about how inefective it is, that our average shooter might just end in believing that he is actually shooting some kind of poodle shooter.. and end up shooting at 1" board in is backyard...

Warhawk83
January 30, 2010, 08:09 PM
It was hard for me to look at, pretty gruesome, but useful. The shot of the driver's head was just plain horrifying. I agree that EVERYONE should see these pictures, squeamish or not.

One thing, when my children are MUCH older, they will be shown those pictures. If they are at a friend's house and the little jackass wants to play with daddy's gun my kid should be able to step in.

RP88
January 30, 2010, 09:08 PM
people still think that 5.56 is poodle-slayer ammo, though.

If you have the stomach, just look at the last pic of the guy's face (or lack thereof). That should end the debate plenty.

Larry Ashcraft
January 30, 2010, 09:19 PM
Staff consensus is that the thread will stay where it is.

Having hunted both game and varmints for almost fifty years, though, I don't doubt any round's capacity for destruction, especially the 5.56 NATO.

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