Low priced handguns


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Budgetshooter
January 30, 2010, 06:15 PM
Hello, my first post here. I want to create a thread that names some cheaply priced handguns, that would still be great for personal defense of the home or to carry with a legal carry permit. In general, they should be under $300, not including any FFL or shipping fees.

Here is what i can offer up so far, please add if you can.


MDL 200 .38 Special revolver 4inch. Barrel. Prices found between $180 and $200.
http://chiggerridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/armscor-model-200-38-special.jpg

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Budgetshooter
January 30, 2010, 06:21 PM
Model 206 .38 special revolver snubnose priced under $200

https://www.davescatalog.com/products/thumbs/arm_51281.jpg



CZ-82 9x18 makarov (9mm mak) priced under $230

http://users.mcreccwb.com/tim2005/images/8866.gif


Romanian Tokarev TT-33 Priced generally under $230. Very powerful gun, similar to 357 magnum in ballistics gel.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/f/f0/TT-33.jpg/400px-TT-33.jpg

David E
January 30, 2010, 06:27 PM
Both of those revolvers are TOTAL CRAP.

They'll end up costing you more, since you'll have to buy another one after those break.

Presuming, of course, the breakage didn't damage your hand(s) or eyesight......

Arkansas Paul
January 30, 2010, 06:31 PM
Smith and Wesson Sigma in .40 or 9mm can be had for under $300. A lot of people don't like em, but now that I've found ammo that mine likes, it has been utterly reliable. Feels good in the hand and is accurate. Not a great trigger, but hey, you can't have it all for $300.

Fat Boy
January 30, 2010, 06:32 PM
Nagant revolver -Inexpensive, heavy, overbuilt gun, costly ammo

Budgetshooter
January 30, 2010, 07:34 PM
I like the sigmas too. Still have one in .40. The trigger is in fact crap, but thats my only gripe.

shockwave
January 30, 2010, 07:38 PM
cheaply priced handguns, that would still be great for personal defense of the home

How much do you value your life? For around $300 you can get a 12 ga. short-barreled shotgun workhorse that will not fail you under any circumstances. If you want a handgun as a primary means of home defense, I'd get a Glock or a name-brand .357. Get around $600 together before even looking. Good guns aren't cheap.

LarryB
January 30, 2010, 07:46 PM
I bought one of the MDL200 in 38 spec and so far I sorta like the gun , I'll shoot a mild hand load , it's sorta ugly but I like the feel of it.

Budgetshooter
January 30, 2010, 07:50 PM
yes shockwave, i fully agree. This thread is about handguns under $300.

Dr.Mall Ninja
January 30, 2010, 07:52 PM
Hi points are supposed to be nice cheap guns, Although I wont let anything that ugly in my house.

Nasty
January 30, 2010, 07:55 PM
Police buy-backs...revolvers, autos, etc.

Best deals on the planet, followed by *some* of the mil-surp through companies like AIM Surplus.

w_houle
January 30, 2010, 08:04 PM
How much do you value your life?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion
If you don't mind looking around some: You can find an EAA Windicator in .357 within this range
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=156024221

Dr.Mall Ninja
January 30, 2010, 08:16 PM
the windicator looks like a good one for sombody on a budget.

CajunBass
January 30, 2010, 08:21 PM
Both of those revolvers are TOTAL CRAP.

They'll end up costing you more, since you'll have to buy another one after those break.

Presuming, of course, the breakage didn't damage your hand(s) or eyesight......

And you know this how? How much experience do you have with them? How many rounds to failure? How many individual samples have you tested? Since I've never even seen one, I'd like to know the basis of your conclusions.

BTW. I've got both a CZ-82 and a Hi-Point 9mm. They're both good choices.

mnhntr
January 30, 2010, 08:24 PM
The EAA Windicator is my personal choice for a very inexpensive but still quality made handgun. The finish sucks but it is reliable and way overbuilt.

shockwave
January 30, 2010, 08:29 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

Point of order, houle: OP is asking which cheap gun under $300 would be "great" for HD. If there were great guns for under $300, we wouldn't see that $800-$1000 is pretty much baseline for quality. Smart shopping for used can get that lower, but once you're in the cheap range, "great for HD" is a tough sell. When it comes to life safety equipment, well... The EEA Vindicator would probably be a good choice. Agreed.

David E
January 30, 2010, 10:11 PM
And you know this how? How much experience do you have with them? How many rounds to failure? How many individual samples have you tested? Since I've never even seen one, I'd like to know the basis of your conclusions.

I couldn't find the picture of the one I saw blown up, but even the folks that like them find they have faults. Sometimes, very serious ones.

Here's one review of two of them by one of the THR moderators:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=416615

You waste your money if you want to, but there are so many better guns to buy for the same or less money.

Here's a picture of one that cost me $85 at a gunstore:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/Sooper1/Shooting%20Related%20Things/DSCF0009.jpg

DWFan
January 30, 2010, 10:43 PM
Used S&W's under $300...
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/handguns/smith-wesson/cPath/16_211

weekender823
January 30, 2010, 10:44 PM
I gotta give a +1 on the CZ-82. The Makarov cartridge is acceptable, and the ergonomics are awesome.

Also, I bought a Rossi M971 357 Mag revolver, and I was so happy with it I bought a M68 in 38 Spl. I think they are an underrated and excellent weapon.

frankiestoys
January 30, 2010, 10:50 PM
Well i'll jump in here
I own a EAA Windicator, its my house gun and sits right next to my bed loaded with gold dot. I have only fired it on two occations each time firing 50 rounds ,with no issues.
Its in no way close to the quality of any of my Rugers or Smiths ,but its intended job is to go bang when i call on it. My only complaint is the trigger it is absolutly crap i am planning to do a trigger job on it next month.
Here's a pic to through in to the thread my price was $245

Ed Ames
January 30, 2010, 11:25 PM
The Sigmas, while technically a bit above $300 nowadays (barring mail-in rebates), qualify nicely in all other respects.

I picked one up on a whim a few years ago and, even though the trigger kinda sucks, I've got to say I'm nothing but impressed with it as a high-value sidearm.

Dr.Mall Ninja
January 30, 2010, 11:39 PM
Point of order, houle: OP is asking which cheap gun under $300 would be "great" for HD. If there were great guns for under $300, we wouldn't see that $800-$1000 is pretty much baseline for quality. Smart shopping for used can get that lower, but once you're in the cheap range, "great for HD" is a tough sell. When it comes to life safety equipment, well... The EEA Vindicator would probably be a good choice. Agreed.


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=155909610#PIC

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=155999132

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=155200140

All three of these guns are way under $800 your baseline for a HD gun. Tell me if you were going to use a handgun for self defense you think that one of these wouldn't keep you as safe as your higher end guns?

shockwave
January 30, 2010, 11:59 PM
All three of these guns are way under $800 your baseline for a HD gun

To be fair, the S&W revolver was the only one I'd get, and it's $550 way used. Hunt around on the Internet you can find some deals. I was in a gun shop today picking up some things and the stuff in the window is really high.

azyogi
January 31, 2010, 12:28 AM
Well for my 2 cents if I needed a gun for under 300 I'd go with a Remmie 1858 clone, plus a spare cylinder. Fresh caps every week and 30 grns FFFg Goex. They will go bang alot more reliably than you would think. I've had year old spare cylinders fire all 6 without a hickup [fresh caps as I don't cap spare cylinders] of course some will claim .45 in BP are too weak for HD. I respectfully disagree. Gun, cyl, powder, caps, and balls and you're still under $300 but stay away from the brass frames, they won't last as long as the steel.

wlewisiii
January 31, 2010, 12:30 AM
I looked at an EAA Windicator today. If I'd had the cash on me, I would have spent it. Not the prettiest by any stretch of the imagination, but for just barely $200 new it will do exactly what someone needs of it. Plus heavy enough that actually shooting magnum rounds isn't an exercise in masochism. Shoot standard pressure .38 special & it'll be a good trunk gun.

And a 2" model in your pocket would be a heck of a lot better than a sharp stick if the SHTF...

William

CajunBass
January 31, 2010, 06:58 AM
Thanks David E. That's the kind of information you left out of your original post that is a lot more helpful than "They're crap." As I said I've never seen one before, and frankly didn't know what brand they were or how much they cost. Still it seemed from the link you provided to be a mixed bag. Some people seemed be happy with them. I doubt I'd buy one, but if I had a chance to inspect one first...maybe.

I agree that you might be able to find a good deal on the used rack in the OP's price ceiling. Not long ago I picked up a Colt Official Police for $250.00 but they're not common, at least not in the places I look. That's the only old police trade in I've ever seen anywhere close to the mythical $200.00 Colt and S&W trade in.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/CajunBass/handguns/031-1.jpg

Nice Charter Arms you got there.

rogertc1
January 31, 2010, 07:18 AM
EEA Vindicator 357 $250 NIB
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/rogertc1/EAAWidicator.jpg

Mark F
January 31, 2010, 07:51 AM
Thanks David E. That's the kind of information you left out of your original post that is a lot more helpful than "They're crap." As I said I've never seen one before, and frankly didn't know what brand they were or how much they cost. Still it seemed from the link you provided to be a mixed bag. Some people seemed be happy with them. I doubt I'd buy one, but if I had a chance to inspect one first...maybe.

I agree that you might be able to find a good deal on the used rack in the OP's price ceiling. Not long ago I picked up a Colt Official Police for $250.00 but they're not common, at least not in the places I look. That's the only old police trade in I've ever seen anywhere close to the mythical $200.00 Colt and S&W trade in.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/CajunBass/handguns/031-1.jpg

Nice Charter Arms you got there.
J & G Guns Sales. Lots of Police trade-ins.

w_houle
January 31, 2010, 11:39 AM
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9634/imgp0002d.jpg
Options
For when you simply must have them.

Okay, maybe I'm biased:eek:

harmon rabb
January 31, 2010, 02:46 PM
we wouldn't see that $800-$1000 is pretty much baseline for quality

wat? you don't consider glocks, xd's, m&p's, ruger revolvers, smith revolvers, and others to be 'quality?' uhh...

Mike J
January 31, 2010, 04:53 PM
Kel Tecs sell for under 300 usually. Like everyone else said S & W .38 revolver trade ins at JGSales. If you look around you can usually find a P-95 for right around 300. Sigmas are around that price too.

Deltaboy
January 31, 2010, 05:09 PM
I got a NINS that is New in night stand Charter arms Undercover for $250 from an Estate sale.

I have a butt ugly Hi-point that has done nothing but go BANG and hit what I am shooting at. $150 in 45 ACP!

sparkyfender
January 31, 2010, 07:07 PM
Maybe a used Ruger P89?

Solid pistols..........

Al LaVodka
January 31, 2010, 10:17 PM
9x18mm 6+1 P-64.

This little beauty usually found in Excellent condition as MilSurp was the little standard sidearm of the Polish Army during the height of the Cold War. Between $2-300 but have been going up -- probably a 50% increase in the past year and still worth it unlike the chunky original 9x18 Makarov.

LeontheProfessional
January 31, 2010, 10:26 PM
P3AT < $280
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/kel_tec/kel_p3at.jpg

PF9<$290
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/kel-tec_pf9-1.jpg

P11<$290
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/kel-tec_p11-1.jpg

Cactus Jack Arizona
January 31, 2010, 10:56 PM
Alright, for all you gun snobs out there, we mustn't forget that not everyone can afford a Kimber, Wilson, Colt, etc. :fire: Just because a gun has fewer digits after the dollar sign ($) doesn't mean that it will be less reliable. :p

MrWesson
January 31, 2010, 11:08 PM
I dont know why Arcus pistols get no love they were designed in bulgaria and used by their military and police. They are also used by the iraqi military and police. They are basically a hipower clone and are 299 from JG sales.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1424/2arcus98dac9mmcompact20.jpg

David E
January 31, 2010, 11:14 PM
I've read great reviews on the Arcus (aside from the trigger pull)

I'd much rather risk my money on one of those long before the Armscor revolvers.

That said, it's not that hard to find a good used S&W revolver for less than $300. The last S&W I bought was $110. It's a .38 Special made prior to 1920 and was a bit in the homely side, but it's mechanically sound.

frankiestoys
January 31, 2010, 11:15 PM
I read the op again and realized that my Ruger p95 was under $300 ( $289) and for the money its better then any of the guns mentioned

TdocZ
January 31, 2010, 11:37 PM
No one has mentioned any of the Kel-Tecs, e.g. P11 or P3AT. Both can be had for easily under $300. The P11 has a crappy trigger pull but its super reliable and can use S&W 59/69 series high cap magazines. You can beat the P3AT for deep concealment. Kel-Tec has great customer service to boot...

TdocZ
January 31, 2010, 11:39 PM
Okay, someone posted on Keltecs before I could finish writing my post. Cheers!

Pinata
February 1, 2010, 09:32 AM
No love for the Hi Point .45 ACP? Granted it won't win any beauty contests, but I've put 500 rounds (mixture of Federal 185 grain JHP and cheap Wolf 230 grain FMJ) through it without a hitch. I think I paid $225 for mine brand new and have been a huge fan ever since.

http://pics.reedssports.com/gb/jhp45acp1.JPG

Maj.Striker
February 1, 2010, 10:52 AM
+1 on the Arcus 98 DA or DAC model. A close clone of the Browning High Power (some differences, the 98 DA/DAC is double action), the Arcus is extremely reliable accomodating a wide variety of ammunition brands/loads and accurate. At $299.99 from most distributers plus FFL and taxes you're looking at a quality handgun for a quality price.

Let's get something clear, EVERY gun will fail under some circumstances. You want to get one that has the least amount of failures that you can find but there's no such thing as a 100% reliable firearm. If some slick salesman talked you into spending $1000+ solely on the basis of reliability then you got suckered.

Think about it, if Glock sold their pistols for close to what it cost to make them then they would be a really really cheap gun...does that mean they're less reliable? No, it just means they're not making as much money. There's a difference between an inexpensive gun and a cheap gun. Unfortunately at the under $300 mark there's a lot of cheap guns that are crap...its more difficult to weed out the good but inexpensive. Here's my short list:

1. Arcus 98 DA or DAC - $299 + FFL, S&H and Taxes
2. Tokarev TT33 - $199.99 + FFL, S&H, and Taxes
3. CZ83 - $199.99 + FFL, S&H and Taxes
4. EAA M88 - $266 NIB + FFL, S&H
5. FEG PA63 - Used to be about $129.99, not sure what they're at now. Other than the atrocious DA trigger and sharp recoil, its a fine shooter.

LoneCoon
February 1, 2010, 11:05 AM
If you can find a used S&W 439, at less than $300 like I did, you should buy it right then and there.

Best purchase I've ever made.

Ronsch
February 1, 2010, 05:53 PM
+1 on Charter Arms. Their previous history is sort of spotty, but my Undercover shrouded-hammer is a good piece of kit.

I use light CAS .38 Special Rounds, and the recoil is very manageable. OTD it was $250.00 here in Juneau, so I would imagine you would be able to find one cheaper in the Lower 48.

YMMV.

Madcap_Magician
February 1, 2010, 06:01 PM
Bersas. Used Sig P6/P225s. Older Charter Arms revolvers. Makarovs.

MCgunner
February 1, 2010, 06:24 PM
I've done quite well with used Taurus revolvers. They're great handguns, my two M66s. They have many detractors that bash them without merit. They're fantastic shooters and the most expensive one set me back 200 bucks. My 3" was 180. Rossi comes to mind; also, but I sorta prefer Taurus. They're not cheap new, but one of the very things the S&W koolaid drinkers bash 'em for, low resale, is what makes 'em great used bargains. Keep it up, Smith guys! Go buy your 700 dollar clapped out K frames (before you argue, look for a 3" .357) and bash the Taurus. :D I'm always good for a bargain.

NMGonzo
February 1, 2010, 07:16 PM
i saw my buddy firing a windicator and flinching for all the crap being spat back.

i was not impressed

frankiestoys
February 1, 2010, 08:37 PM
i saw my buddy firing a windicator and flinching for all the crap being spat back.

i was not impressed
I don't fire mine often ,but i don't recall any ''crap being spat back'' mind you 357's
are know to have more gun powder flash.
NMGonzo,
these guns are NOT impressive revolvers there triggers are the worst but they are solid guns and go bang when you need them, with a little work on the triggers there as good as any of the ''Budget'' revolvers.

w_houle
February 1, 2010, 10:37 PM
I don't fire mine often ,but i don't recall any ''crap being spat back'' mind you 357's
are know to have more gun powder flash.
NMGonzo,
these guns are NOT impressive revolvers there triggers are the worst but they are solid guns and go bang when you need them, with a little work on the triggers there as good as any of the ''Budget'' revolvers.
If you take a dremel to the trigger and remove those ridges, the trigger feels much better/
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3940/img083a.jpg
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4269/img082t.jpg

snakeman
February 1, 2010, 10:52 PM
Rossi anything in 38 or bigger! The tokarev is a good choice too though.

butters
February 1, 2010, 11:18 PM
Bersa gets my vote. I paid $295 for my Firestorm mini 9mm a little over a year and a half ago. Great gun.

ironvic
February 2, 2010, 12:53 AM
Don't buy "cheap" guns. You can find good deals at pawn shops and they'll make trades as well. Perhaps you have an old guitar or some tools they'll take in trade. I agree with others that police trade-ins are a great deal. They are generally shot little and usually have holster wear on the outside, but internally, most of the ones I've seen are pristine and have most likely been cared for by department armorers. One of the first things I ask my dealer when looking for a new (to me) gun is to see what's available in law enforcement trade-ins.

Here's an interesting link to Chestnut Ridge, a seller of police trade-ins who will ship to an FFL. I haven't dealt with them, and I understand others on this forum have, it gives you a good idea of what's available and pricing for used guns of all sizes.

scythefwd
February 2, 2010, 01:42 AM
My rossi M68 can be had for about 100 round here and it has never failed to go boom. I can keep it easily in a 4 inch square at 10 yards. It ain't a target gun, but it is good enough for SD. It has several thousand rounds through it.

My FEG Hungary P9R has also never failed me. It can be had for about 250 around here, used. It also has several thousand through it. Accurate as I need it to be for SD.

blindhari
February 2, 2010, 02:13 AM
When I walk into J&G gun sales in Prescott, Az they usually have between 6 and 24 .38 specials with bobbed hammer running $220-$300. For a newby that covers price and gives a great learning curve on the front end. I have a ccw and use a Keltec P11 just because I like it. It also needs more training to use, limp wrist, recoil, loading a stiff double stack magazine without a Lapua (?), long double action, all of which go away with a mild 38 special round. Oh yeah, my P11 was under $300 also. I also have 2 S&W pre model 10 and my primary defense gun is which ever one is at hand.

blindhari

MICHAEL T
February 2, 2010, 02:31 AM
Bersa Thunder fits under 300 new

David E
February 2, 2010, 02:54 AM
My rossi M68 can be had for about 100 round here... I can keep it easily in a 4 inch square at 10 yards.

Are you shooting it or throwing it ?


:D:D:D

scythefwd
February 2, 2010, 05:30 AM
shooting, double action. I have never been a good shot with a handgun. I can keep it center of mass, but I sure as heck am not a bullseye shooter. It weighs about 2.5-3 lbs, so throwing it is an option after I use up the 5 shots :)

Boberama
February 2, 2010, 05:56 AM
You could get a Lorcin 9mm. It's one of the cheapest you'll find. :evil:

Search Lorcin L9 on google images. Yuck.

Ed Ames
February 2, 2010, 10:26 AM
My FEG Hungary P9R has also never failed me.

It's a real shame FEG is no longer in business. Their products were consistently better than the prices implied.

w_houle
February 2, 2010, 11:17 AM
It's a real shame FEG is no longer in business. Their products were consistently better than the prices implied.
Their products are better than their price implies, so why could they build them so cheap?

Maj.Striker
February 2, 2010, 11:45 AM
All mass manufactured weapons are made "cheap", relatively speaking...its just some steel, springs and pins. Nowadays most are composed primarily of plastic. Glocks could sell for $100 each, does that mean they are cheap? The manufacturer sets a price and the market shows if they can sustain it. Almost all mass imported weapons are sold cheaper than their American equivalents otherwise the market wouldn't sustain it. I don't believe the difference in price has much if anything to do with quality (speaking as a general rule here, I'm absolutely certain there are exceptions to that).

fireside44
February 2, 2010, 11:58 AM
My rossi M68 can be had for about 100 round here and it has never failed to go boom.

Rossi's are great guns for the money. Even if they cost more than they do, they would still be a decent value IMO. Many of them can be had for less than $300 and even their best models are within $100 of that mark.

Ed Ames
February 2, 2010, 12:08 PM
Their products are better than their price implies so why could they build them so cheap?

Obviously they couldn't in the long run. But, that flip response aside, I think the answer has more to do with the economic history of (formerly Soviet) Hungary than anything else. They needed the money.

rfurtkamp
February 2, 2010, 12:27 PM
I've read great reviews on the Arcus (aside from the trigger pull)


On the SA versions, the mag safety can be removed just like a BHP and it improves the trigger exponentially.

They're serviceable guns, but the finish is *terrible* - expect scratches and wear immediately.

A friend of mine has used one as a primary cheap carry/range gun for 5-6 years now without issue.

It's not perfect but it has always gone bang and hits what it's supposed to.

nitetrane98
February 2, 2010, 12:38 PM
While we all like good looking guns, when I want a shooter I use the Statue of Liberty inscription.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to shoot tight groups,
The wretched refuse of your damp gun lockers, basements and underneath pickup truck seats.

I had always wanted a Browning HP and couldn't ever quite scratch up the coin for a 9mm pistol. I always loved the way they felt in my hand but was never whelmed with the 9mm.

Anyway, I found one that had been left in a damp gun rug. Ugly as sin on the outside but for all practical purposes unfired on the inside. 300 bucks for a really great shooter.

I think there are plenty of little red headed stepchildren out there from brands with a reputation for quality. I don't know anybody that buys any of the budget guns for the fit and finish.

group17
February 2, 2010, 12:45 PM
Both the NIB Stoeger 8000 cougar and Sig Sauer PS 2022 (slightly used) can be found for $300+.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu329/sikider/P1000028-1.jpg

MedWheeler
February 2, 2010, 10:03 PM
A while back, someone here asked about a Taurus M85 as a viable defensive piece, and was immediately pounced upon by the wallet-wielding internet infantry.
The following was my response:

>>>Ask yourself "what's your life worth".. you'll hear this comment over and over again from the webwarriors, yet they're not buying new $40K+ cars every year to have the latest in safety when out and about. This is despite the fact that any one of us who operates a motor vehicle is much more likely to encounter a threat to our safety in doing so than one coming in the form of an aggressor (unless they're engaging in a risky lifestyle.)
For HD/SD, a Taurus that you know to function and do so well in your hands will do fine. Those same people who believe they should be armed at all times are, in fact, telling you to wait to be armed, aren't they? Remember the first rule of gunfighting, right? Have a gun!
More justifiable defensive shootings not involving LE or military personnel involve these so-called "lesser" arms than the Kahrs, Kimbers, Sigs, etc, because that's what people who live in the parts of the country more likely to contain these threats have. Most of the cases I've read up on that identified the defender's weapon type include Rossi .38s, Lorcin/Davis-type .25 and .380 pistols, no-name single-barrel or double-barrel shotguns, and various .22 and .32 caliber revolvers. These are the "beer-budget" arms people living "beer-budget" lives have when firearms isn't a pastime for them. I don't own a single firearm valued today at more than $400, but I trust any of the ones I keep for defensive purposes to do me as intended. They include a Taurus 4" 66 revolver, a Charter Arms Undercover .38, and a Bersa Thunder .380 pistol. The first is primarily a HD gun; one of the other two is on me at all (dressed) times.<<<

wlewisiii
February 2, 2010, 10:48 PM
^^^^ +1.

William

David E
February 3, 2010, 12:16 AM
I'd rather buy a good used gun cheap, than a cheap gun new.

ThePunisher'sArmory
February 3, 2010, 12:33 AM
If your going to buy it as a carry gun don't settle for cheap s#$t. If you absolutely can not spend more then $300 I'd get a Ruger P95. Neither of mine have ever failed.....NEVER. If you can spend more get a nice snubnose revolver, like a Smith or Ruger. Dont bet your life on crap. P.S. Never buy a Hi Point all of them that I have had the unfortunate chance to shoot jam, ftf, etc. The only good Hi Point is their 9mm carbine.

Ed Ames
February 3, 2010, 12:36 AM
Used guns are fine for 3rd+ guns, but are they really a good idea for people who are new to guns and don't have a known good gun already? I don't think so.

No matter how gun savvy you are, buying used is a risk. You can't shoot them before you buy them and unless you are a real expert there is just too much chance that someone is dumping an unreliable gun on an unsuspecting buyer. You or I, having owned several guns and already having at least one gun we trust, can take that risk without much concern.

However, someone who doesn't know much about guns and doesn't already have their real gun needs covered is better off buying a cheap new gun with a warranty.

mljdeckard
February 3, 2010, 12:58 AM
Incidentally, today I was out with a friend and he bought along two Ruger P-series guns. I don't prefer Ruger centerfire autos, the trigger is a bit creepy, but after shooting these, I found I can manage them just fine, and they aren't any worse than a Glock trigger.

I tell people on a budget, go to the pawn shops, look for a S&W, Charter, Rossi .357, or a used Glock. And to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't have a problem buying a used Ruger either.

ANYTHING to prevent them from using a Jennings or Lorcin or other (oh yeah, I'll say it,) JUNK gun that's too little to be a good paperweight.

scythefwd
February 3, 2010, 01:42 AM
Their products are better than their price implies, so why could they build them so cheap?

Couldn't tell you how they did it on the cheap. It isn't a kimber for fit and finish, but it's all right. I have considered picking up a second one. They look like a BHP, but they are closer to a smith in the workings. Double action, smooth trigger pull but a bit of creep and LONG. Single action, little bit of creep, but easy to pull and smooth. Decocker / trigger disconnect for a safety. It is the only semi auto I own, and I cannot conceal it. I am too round at the waist and it sticks out a little bit too much. From what I hear, they were always in the 250 ish range, even new so the price hasn't dropped any for a well cared for one.

Ed Ames
February 3, 2010, 01:49 AM
From what I hear, they were always in the 250 ish

The last time I saw one in a store, new, it was $169 or so... but that was the early '90s.

five.five-six
February 3, 2010, 01:52 AM
colt 80 series with trigger work and nice sights that I got for $300 because the owner couldn't help from limp wristing -->stovepiping



shoots great for me :)

scythefwd
February 3, 2010, 02:14 AM
Ed - I guess I heard wrong, or they varied in price by locality.

Ed Ames
February 3, 2010, 07:25 AM
I guess I heard wrong, or they varied in price by locality.

Or $250 ain't what it used to be. In any case, they were/are bargains.

David E
February 3, 2010, 01:25 PM
No matter how gun savvy you are, buying A CHEAP GUN NEW is a risk. You can't shoot them before you buy them and unless you are a real expert there is just too much chance that someone is dumping an unreliable gun on an unsuspecting buyer.

However, someone who doesn't know much about guns is better off buying a PROVEN USED gun, even without a warranty.

Look, it ain't rocket science. It's much easier to buy a used gun than it is a used car. Quite often, they will let you shoot a used gun, but not let you shoot a new one, even if it's crap. If they did, they could not sell it as new! But a used gun has already taken that hit, so it's not a big deal to be allowed to shoot a used gun before buying.

If one can't figure out some basic gun information, then they shouldn't be buying a gun period, new OR used.

Ed Ames
February 3, 2010, 06:14 PM
Sorry, that really doesn't work.

A person who knows basically zilch about guns can go to a gun or sporting goods store and buy a cheap new taurus, rossi, ruger, kel-tec, s&w, or similar and know, know, that if it doesn't work the manufacturer will fix it. In many cases they'll even pay foe shipping. They don't have to know about cylinder play, spring wear, or anything else.

If that same person buys "better but used" they will end up spending as much or more for a gun that may not work at all, and if it doesn't they are proobably going to have to pay a gunsmith or perhaps even write it off and buy something else.

That's fine if you have a gun already. It's fine if you are just playing around. It is even fine if you have an expert friend who will stand behind her advice with a loner gun if needed, but I just can't see where it is responsible advice for people just getting into shooting. Not when you can take $350 to just about any gun store and walk out with a brand new S&W, Ruger, Kel-tec, etc. Taxes and fees included.

I like used guns. I buy more used than new. And I accept that a used gun will need more check-out, and more maintenance, than the same dollars spent on a new gun. What I gain is a connection to history, the ability to pick models no longer made, and value...not effectiveness or reliability. In other words, I'm not gaining what 1st time gun owners need.

David E
February 3, 2010, 06:27 PM
A person who knows basically zilch about guns can go to a gun or sporting goods store and buy a cheap new taurus, rossi, ruger, kel-tec, s&w, or similar and know, know, that if it doesn't work the manufacturer will fix it.

Oh, I didn't know we were including these brands in the "Cheap" category...maybe I'm not elitist enough ! :rolleyes:

Except for a couple pocket models from the above makers, none of them are below the original $300 price ceiling stated in the OP.

I was comparing buying a NEW Armscor revolver that's total crap out of the box instead of a used S&W Police trade-in for the same $200

There is a difference between "cheap for the money" and "crap at any price."

Ed Ames
February 3, 2010, 06:52 PM
The OP said $300.

The last new S&W I bought was under $275 total (including tax) for a brand new lifetime warranty pistol that has been 100% so far.

Several here have posted that P rugers are under $300.

Taurus routinely sells in the sub-300 range.

Kel-tec will sell you just about any handgun they make for under $300 unless you want a laser and fancy printing on the slide.

Plenty of good new choices in that range. Any of them makes a better first gun for a new shooter than any used gun.

fields
February 3, 2010, 06:58 PM
Acadamy has the Tarus PT101, a .40 based on the Beretta 96 for 299 right now.

richard

Ben86
February 3, 2010, 07:12 PM
Oh no, please no more Hi-point pictures! It's repugnant looks hurt my eyes! LOL

OP there are many good handguns that meet your budget. To name a few S&W sigma, ruger p95, stoeger cougar, and wealth of taurus handguns. Just shop around and do some searches at budsgunshop.com, impactguns.com, thegunsource.com and others to discover new brands and models.

Erik M
February 3, 2010, 07:24 PM
I would recommend the CZ82, they are a bargin and the 9x18 ammo is plentiful.

Ed Ames
February 3, 2010, 07:42 PM
I like the CZ-82, but...they are used. And there are reasons why that matters.

Mine had a weak recoil spring. I was able to make a new one from a Wolf makarov spring but the spring that came in the gun wasn't running at full tension and, as a result...

Parts went flying the first couple of times I took it out. Specifically the pin holding the extractor backed out and the extractor and pin went flying. I was able to find the parts and reassemble the gun, but it was a pain and required work to prevent.

At this point I have night sights on the '82 and it is as trustworthy as anyone has a right to expect of a machine, but for a newb gunowner who doesn't know how to deal with such setbacks it could be a problem.

David E
February 3, 2010, 10:26 PM
The last new S&W I bought was under $275 total (including tax) for a brand new lifetime warranty pistol that has been 100% so far.

Several here have posted that P rugers are under $300.

Taurus routinely sells in the sub-300 range.

When were these guns bought? I have a Ruger P-95 that cost $239 new, from a dealer, but I bought it 10 years ago, so little good that does anyone looking for a new one today.

Even the Sigmas, around here, have topped $300.

It depends on the mission as to what gun will suffice. Many folks don't want a sub-caliber pocket gun, or a gun with a 20# trigger pull for defense.

If anyone has seen a "best value" on a gun lately, please post the make, model and price, along with location.

That might help more than anything!

Ed Ames
February 3, 2010, 10:34 PM
Sigmas are $300, delivered, before $50 mail-in rebate. Today. Bud's sells for that, and so do the local shops around me. I have a local FFL that does $10 transfers (or did 6 months ago, maybe he's $15 now) so that would be $260 total for me from Bud's or $274.75 from a local shop.

None of the guns we are talking about are sub-caliber pocket guns. All are 9mm, 40S&W, .45ACP, and similar. The only Taurus handgun I've purchased was .45ACP and it was right around $300 new from a local shop not that long ago. Works, too.

The only gun I've ever encountered with an honest 20# trigger was a Russian Nagant in DA mode -- and it's a good example of why I think used guns are a bad idea for newbs.

I think the biggest help would be for you to stop the hyperbole and realize that what works for you is only that -- what works for you -- and not in any way good or relevant for everyone.

HGUNHNTR
February 3, 2010, 10:37 PM
Occasionally you can find a good deal on a beat up Ruger P series pistol. That would probably be my choice given the price range. I certainly don't care for them ergonomically, but for the price they are excellent mechanically, and thats what is most suspect on super cheap hg's.

dayid
February 3, 2010, 10:37 PM
When were these guns bought? I have a Ruger P-95 that cost $239 new, from a dealer, but I bought it 10 years ago, so little good that does anyone looking for a new one today.
My new Ruger P95 stainless was $320 (purchased less than a month ago), I could've had a blued for around $260 or so.

David E
February 4, 2010, 02:27 AM
That's a good deal Bud's has going. Most FFL's charge more than $10. Arournd here, it's in the range of $25-$35, but with the $50 rebate (presuming the buyer doesn't use it for two more mags) that's still under $300. Super deal !

Still, I think the biggest help would be for you to stop the hyperbole and realize that what works for you is only that -- what works for you -- and not in any way good or relevant for everyone.

Speaking of P-95's (an underrated gun if there ever was one) is $300 delivered from Bud's. It all depends on the FFL fee on that one.

No Tauri under $300 in stock at Bud's.

Ruger's LCP is also $299, if one wants a sub-caliber.

Kel-Tec PF-9's are out of stock, but their P-11 is in stock for $257 delivered, if you don't mind the very strong trigger pull.

ALL of these would be better choices than the Armscor revolvers and similar.

Ed Ames
February 4, 2010, 02:46 AM
That sigma "deal" isn't special...they have sold for that price (+/- $30 depending on store) continuously for at least three years.

The fact that Bud's doesn't have something in stock doesn't mean much. I can go to any of four local gun stores around here and pick up a PF-9, Taurus, and quite a few other things that are out of stock at Bud's.

The trick with repeating back what someone else says is to understand what the words mean. Otherwise you repeat back a chastisement about hyperbole to someone who is stating dull and easily verified facts. I didn't claim that any of these guns had 20lb triggers, I haven't referred to a gun that is exactly the same caliber as 9mm Parabellum as "sub caliber". I haven't repeated a bunch of silly BS like this:

...TOTAL CRAP.

They'll end up costing you more, since you'll have to buy another one after those break.

Presuming, of course, the breakage didn't damage your hand(s) or eyesight......

I just pointed out that you are wrong...and that ain't hyperbole.

David E
February 4, 2010, 03:00 AM
<sigh>........

The Keltec P-11 has a horrible trigger pull. Maybe not quite 20#, but it sure feels like it.

Sigmas in the stores around HERE are over $300, so by the local standards that I have to go buy, Bud's IS a good deal.

Most people regard .32 and .380 to be sub-calibers.

If you read any of my posts in context, you'd know that the part you pasted referred to CRAP guns, such as the Armscor that was pictured in the OP. And there is far more crap out there than those. Wasting money on CRAP is never a deal, no matter how cheap the CRAP was. Most people grasp that concept.

Nice try, tho.

Ed Ames
February 4, 2010, 03:12 AM
You do see the difference between "wasting money on crap is never a good deal" (which, depending on circumstances, may or may not be right but who cares) and comments like, "Presuming, of course, the breakage didn't damage your hand(s) or eyesight...... ", 20# triggers, and so on, which are pure hyperbole, right? Read "hyperbole" as "BS" if you want to go lowbrow.

It's not a matter of context. It's a matter of taking something that everyone would agree with... "buying quality is a good idea, and generally saves you money in the long run", and turning it into a lie/claim you cannot back up, like, "They'll end up costing you more, since you'll have to buy another one after those break."

If you make the first statement, cool, everyone agrees though it's a trifle banal. If you make the second, well, you can't possibly back it up and it just leads to arguments that serve no purpose.

Just something to think about.

FYI: Most Americans regard .32 and .380 to be low power for personal defense. They regard .204 Ruger as sub-caliber.

David E
February 4, 2010, 03:18 AM
Read "hyperbole" as "BS" if you want to go lowbrow.

Like you already did in post #92 ?

You've never seen a crap gun Ka-boom? I thought you were more experienced......

Time to move on.

Ed Ames
February 4, 2010, 03:37 AM
Oh, I try to start out lowbrow but my training gets the better of me.

I've only seen kaboomed glocks in photos. I don't hold it against them though, since I've also seen some nice guns that kaboomed too. It really pays to stop shooting at the squib.

However, I think you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate that cheap guns are any more likely to kaboom than any others. Very hard pressed.

shenandoah
February 4, 2010, 11:05 AM
Accutek .380 stainless, check it out.

Al LaVodka
February 4, 2010, 08:54 PM
I find it amazing that so many people would recommend any used gun over a decent but inexpensive new one. You have no idea what somebody did to that used gun, and you don't know why they are selling it, but I can tell you its becasue they aren't keeping it -- so why would you?
Al

David E
February 4, 2010, 09:34 PM
Some of the best deals are used guns, as post #76 at the top of this page clearly illustrates.

I'd rather buy a used Smith & Wesson Model 10 police trade-in over a brand new Hi Point/Armscor/Lorcin/Raven/Jimenez/RG/Rohm/Arminius any day of the week.

j21blackjack
February 4, 2010, 09:48 PM
I'd buy another Sigma in a heartbeat. For the guys that complain about the trigger, why don't you just fix it? There are guides all over the place to fix the trigger pull. It took me all of 15 minutes to fix mine, now the trigger is very smooth and around 6 or 7 pounds. I did the fix where you remove the springs from the striker assembly. If I ever need to send it in for warranty work, I'll just put them back in.

Mp7
February 24, 2010, 04:33 PM
P64
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/handguns/polish/cPath/16_385
160$+

... 2 used HiPoints in .45 ... probably are the best deal for 300 u might get.
Sure ugly. But hey ....

.. a used .38 Snubbie would do the job, too.

cskny
February 24, 2010, 10:28 PM
w_houle - Good wikipedia reference


Quote:
How much do you value your life?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion
If you don't mind looking around some: You can find an EAA Windicator in .357 within this range
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=156024221

jad0110
February 24, 2010, 10:58 PM
A year ago I bought this used Ruger Redhawk in .44 Magnum for about $225. Does that count? :evil:


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Ruger%20Redhawk%2044%20Magnum/081.jpg

duns
February 24, 2010, 11:03 PM
If you buy a cheap gun and you have to replace it sooner than a quality gun, you may spend more in the long run. Example: the $1000 gun that lasts 10 years will cost you $100/yr, the $200 gun that lasts one year will cost you $200/yr. In the meantime, the cheaper gun (i.e. the one that's more expensive in the long run!) will have lower reliability and you may lose your life over that.

Erik M
February 24, 2010, 11:27 PM
I one had a Taurus model 82 in .38 that I used as a woods gun. I regret trading it off even though i made a small profit. I had about $250 in that gun. i recently found a S&W model 64 in perfect mechanical condition with a brand new set of grips, just needs some work to get the scratches out. Total investment there was about $275.

Mastiff
February 24, 2010, 11:51 PM
If you buy a cheap gun and you have to replace it sooner than a quality gun, you may spend more in the long run. Example: the $1000 gun that lasts 10 years will cost you $100/yr, the $200 gun that lasts one year will cost you $200/yr. In the meantime, the cheaper gun (i.e. the one that's more expensive in the long run!) will have lower reliability and you may lose your life over that.
I bought a Norinco Model 213 (A Tokarev clone in 9mm) for $89 back in 1992. Using your logic the pistol cost me less than $10 a year. I never had a FTF or a FTE in over 55,000 rounds. I just changed springs every couple of years. Inexpensive? Definitely. Cheap? Hardly. That $89 pistol outshot $1500 pistols. It was my most accurate handgun.
Right now I have 7 handguns, none that cost more than $300. Any of them I would trust with my life or my families life. All but one of the Toks are military surplus, and they are not cheaply built.
4 Tokarevs (2 Yugo's, a Romanian, and another Norinco Model 213) with conversion barrels to fire 9x19 Luger and 9x23 Winchester, the ballistic duplicate of the .357 Magnum.
CZ-82.
Star Super A firing 38 Super.
Sistema Colt (A fully compatible 1911 made in Argentina on Colt machinery.

duns
February 25, 2010, 12:12 AM
I bought a Norinco Model 213 (A Tokarev clone in 9mm) for $89 back in 1992. Using your logic the pistol cost me less than $10 a year. I never had a FTF or a FTE in over 55,000 rounds.
I didn't say a cheap gun was necessarily unreliable. Personally, I would not buy a gun for self defense based on price but on reliability data. The information you provide is good information on that particular weapon.

Bionicrooster
February 25, 2010, 12:40 AM
A year ago I bought this used Ruger Redhawk in .44 Magnum for about $225. Does that count?

I'll give you 275 for it now, you make 50$ :-)

jkulysses
April 5, 2010, 01:28 PM
I just ordered a Rossi 2" 357 mag in stainless for $305 through my neighbor who has his FFL and that was his price. My dad has the blued 38 special version and it's a great little gun and serves it's purpose very well. Basically the one I just ordered is going to be my carry gun until my glock gets here and then it will just be the gun I leave in my glove box and dont really have to worry about too much. If it gets ruined or scratched or stolen, o well at least I didn't pay $1,000 for it and god forbid I actually have to use it someday for self defense I really wouldn't want the cops taking my $1,000 revolver for "evidence".

cshaum
April 5, 2010, 01:56 PM
Ruger P95, best value in guns under $300 right now. You can get a blued one around $250-$275, and a stainless runs right at $300. Full size 9mm built by a reputable company. Easy takedown, easy to use, and a nice piece to start with.

The Tomcat
April 5, 2010, 11:25 PM
Looks like a deal to me.

CZ-82 $209 (http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/cz-82-czech-9x18-makarov-military-pistol%2C-very-good-condition%2C-one-mag-c-r-/products_id/3050)

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