Is your state or town on this list?!?!?!!?


November 16, 2003, 07:05 PM
Is your state or town on this list?!?!?!!?

The list:

1. Madigan, Tacoma WA
2.Ft. Carson, Colorado Springs CO
3.Eisenhower, Augusta GA
4.Womack, Ft Bragg NC
5.William Beaumont, El Paso TX

6. Ft. Belvoir, VA
7. Ft. Hood, Killeen TX
8. Ft. Jackson, Columbia SC
9. Ft. Benning, Columbia GA
10. Ft. Sill, Lawton OK

11. Ft Knox, Louisville KY
12. Ft. Campbell, Clarkesville TN
13. Ft. Wainwright, Fairbanks AK
14. Ft. Polk, Leesville LA
15. Ft Rucker, Ozark AL

16. Ft. Leonard Wood, Waynesville MO
17. Ft. Eustis, Newport News VA
18. Tripler, Honolulu HI
19. West Point, NY

Please evaluate these places for Gun-Friendliness!!! In terms of CCW, Class III, no pending bu!!$&*^ laws (like MO) and no end to the gun-utopia in sight, etc.

I am also interested in the places themselves. Any comments like: You'll love the stinging nettles and foot long mosquitos! are appreciated, as it will help me. So will comments about the real estate, hunting, crime, and just living there or near these places in general.

Well, I alluded to this event in threads past, but it has finally become time to list places that i may be assigned to in a few months. Yes, these are the choices. I lef toff the overseas choices here. I expect you guys may well recognize that these are all Army installations. Hoo-ah!

Oh, and other comments like: the unit assigned here gets deployed every 2 weeks to scrub toilets, or whatever is also handy!

This is personally the most imperative thread I have posted, so I deeply and sincerely thank in advance all who reply!!!

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November 16, 2003, 07:19 PM
#7, Killeen, TX {Ft.Hood} would be my hometown.
My Daddy was a civilian, tho, not military.
However, one of my BILs was stationed there as a young 1st Loo [he's now a Light Col, if that tells you how long ago it was]. He says it wasn't as bad as some of his other postings, but not as good as others. IMO, it beats the pants off Baghdad Int'l Airport, his current location.
Killeen has rather mild winters, compared to even more northern parts of TX. It's not as humid as Houston or SanAntonio.
Summers are hot, but find a place in TX that isn't.
Not too bad for allergies or mosquitos.
Never noticed a bad snake problem, but the only tarantulas I've ever seen I saw in Killeen.
That's about all I can think of at the moment.


November 16, 2003, 07:20 PM
Colorado Springs-

All around good weather. Milder than N. Colorado, and doesn't get as hot as New Mexico in the summer.
General culture is politically conservative, but with enough young people to keep the place from being stodgy.
If you like micro-brew beer, CO is the place to be. The Springs is home to a couple, including the Bristol Brewing Co.

Very gun friendly, especially now that concealed carry applies to the whole state.
NFA stuff is legal, and if you've got the dough to buy Class III, Dragonman will sell you something.

November 16, 2003, 07:24 PM
EDIT: Darnit ... Instaposted by Justin :banghead:
If you like beer then the Bristol Brewery is excellent ... and its about 3 blocks from my house :D

2.Ft. Carson, Colorado Springs CO
Ft Carson is just a couple miles down the road from me (I can see Cheyenne Mountain when I step onto my front porch and Ft. Carson is in the shadow of Cheyenen Mt ... and NORAD is deep inside the mountain).

The area is about the best you can get gun friendly wise (with the acception of Vermont and Alaska with their no-permit CCW).

Class III? check
Shall Issue CCW? check
No pending Bovine Scat laws? check
Major local newspaper with a very Libertarian editorial staff (that has been publicly pro-2A)? check
Good gun shops? check
Plenty of places to shoot? check one free range, one inexpensive pay range (that allows MGs) and one real nice private range that I need to get off my butt and join.

Only downside gun-wise is the lack of indoor ranges.

Other then guns the Colorado Springs area is beautiful, has lots of other non gun related things to do outdoors ... plus all the amenities of a metropolitan area of about half a million people. Crime is pretty low, and the air is clean, clear and pretty dry, bugs are not an issue (I can count the number of mosquitos I saw this summer on one hand ... and they where small and slow). Realestate is not too bad here (not like up in Denver) and right now its a buyers market. This city is also VERY pro-military (what with Fort Carson, Peterson AFB, Schriever AFB, the USAF academy and NORAD) the hippies here know to keep their yapps shut (for the most part) ;)

Only downsides to the CoSp area are water restrictions in the summer (which we may not have next year as it appears the draught may be over) and I think the weather is a bit sketchy on the north end of town (but I on the south end ... just south of downtown ... between downtown and The Broadmoor area and if you're in the Army you'll probably want to live on the south end).

November 16, 2003, 07:34 PM
12. Ft. Campbell, Clarkesville TN

Just an hour up the road from good old Nashville TN. Im actualy going on post tomorrow morning for my job. Middle TN most any time of the year is very pleasant. Only in the dead cold of middle of winter does it get blustry, or middle summer it can get hot and humid. For the most part no nasty vermin/critters that like to bite or suck ya. We usualy get 4 nice seasons unlike some other places. Most alergy people dont tend to have a problem here.

City life in Clarksville...very minimal. They just got a Hooters tho if that tells you anything. They seemingly rollup the sidewalks at 11pm. No real mall to speak of, and few small mom and pop places. Its very weird like that. Also its a college town with Austin Pea State University right there.

TN is pretty relaxed for ccw or any weapons. There arent many ranges up that way off post, most are about 45 mins to an hour drive away. Few decent stores that carry guns, tons of pawn shops tho.

November 16, 2003, 08:02 PM
Madigan, Tacoma!

Madigan is actually south of Tacoma, which is a good thing. It means you can live in one of the more rurual, out-lying areas, instead of being stuck in the I-5 corrider, if that floats your boat.

CCW is a breeze in Washington. Go to the sherrif's office, get printed, fill out one piece of paper, shoudlhave your card in the mail 7-10 days.

Can't carry in Hospital's or schools in Washington(in addition to all the normal no-no places ie Court Houses, Airports, Post Offices.) Of can't carry on the Fort Lewis base either...

Class III...let's see...I believe in Washington, it is legal to own, but you can't buy here...need to go to Oregon or Idaho for that. No limit on how many guns you can purchase at once.

Climate...I love it. I don't mind it grey though. Really only two seasons though...Grey and 40, Clear and 75-80. I like it myself, but it takes some getting used to hearing folks complain about 80 being too hot.

Madigan is a great Hospital, by the way.

But there are signs that things are going south)as in **********n. Pierce County(Tacoma's) Health Department is looking at putting out one of those Public area smoking bans...which, as a small 'L' libertarian, I don't like. There are plenty of non-smoking resteraunts and pubs around(and I'm a non-smoker).

I think you would like it here...

November 16, 2003, 09:18 PM
It gets hot, but SC is a "gun friendly" state. We have indoor/outdoor ranges and a few gun stores.


November 16, 2003, 09:30 PM
Ft. Knox is just a few minunits away from Knob Creek Range, It has one of the largest Machine gune Shoots in the USA

David Park
November 16, 2003, 10:45 PM
Fort Belvoir is just south of Alexandria, and I drive through it on Route 1 to get to my local range. I'm not military, but in this area it seems like I'm the minority. The Pentagon is just up the road, Quantico is not too far to the south, and everyone else seems to work for defense contractors. :) I get the impression Ft. Belvoir has a lot of R&D stuff going on.

CCW: Shall issue, no B.S. Open carry with no permit is also legal nearly everywhere you can CCW and a few places you can't, and I've never heard of someone being hassled by the cops.

Class III: I've heard the Fairfax Co. sheriff is good about signing the paperwork, and he was just re-elected.

Future B.S. gun laws: Highly unlikely. The state is solidly Republican (with a few RINOs), and our Democrat governor courted gun owners to get elected. He's followed through on his promises and signed every pro-gun-rights bill that's made it to his desk. The Virginia Citizens Defense League ( is a very active grassroots gun-rights lobby group, and they're pushing to repeal existing anti-gun laws with some success.

General gun-friendlyness: Pretty good overall. Fairfax Co. has a waiting period for handguns but everyone buys in nearby Prince William Co. anyway. The only other stupid things are VA's one-handgun-a-month law and no CCW in restaurants that serve alcohol. The NRA range is nearby, and there are several other good ranges and gun shops in the area.

Virginia has good deer hunting, local real estate is not outrageous for the metro area (which is why I live here), crime is lower than the nearby gun-free paradises of D.C. and MD, and the weather is nice (4 seasons, generally mild winters, but pretty humid in the summer). Of course, there are plenty of things to do in the area, even if you have to venture into D.C. for some of them. Mount Vernon, home of the first George W., is right next to Ft. Belvoir.

The above mostly applies to your #17, Ft. Eustis in Newport News, but that area of Virginia (Norfolk in particular) has some entrenched anti-gun-rights Democrats. VCDL is fighting hard to get equal gun rights for the entire state, and we now have strong state-level pre-emption laws that only allow a few grandfathered anti-gun ordinances to remain.

The Undertoad
November 16, 2003, 10:52 PM
17. Ft. Eustis, Newport News VA

Home of Transpo, just down the road from me! I've actually been on-base a few times for ROTC training. I'm afraid I don't know anything about city/county laws, but Virginia in general is gun friendly. 1 handgun per month, shall-issue CCW. Most people (except in northern VA :rolleyes: ) are pretty gun-friendly. Actually now that I think on it, a mechanic who's a friend of a friend lives in Newport News and has two Glocks, so I guess their local laws must not be too harsh.

The area itself is pretty cool. Newport News/Norfolk are mostly (from what I've seen the last 2 years) blue collar, and a good number of military. It snows in the winter but not much. Only problem is nobody knows how to drive in the stuff! (I learned to drive in Colorado, lucky me! ;) ) I know hunting is OK around here, but I don't hunt so I dunno how far you'd have to drive. I'd be real surprised if it was over an hour though.

As ranges go, there's an outdoor one about 20 mins. from me (more like 45 mins. from Ft. Eustice) and I'm a member of an indoor range in Norfolk. I've never checked out Newport News itself for ranges but I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one.

Hope that helps! I know there's at least one other person on here from the general area (I want to say Apple A Day?) and he's older than I am so I bet he can help you more. I've only been here a few years.

Mike Irwin
November 16, 2003, 11:03 PM
"Oh, and other comments like: the unit assigned here gets deployed every 2 weeks to scrub toilets, or whatever is also handy!"


I thought you were a doctor?

November 16, 2003, 11:46 PM
This is grea stuff!
Exactly what I wanted!

I was leaning somewhat towards GA until that bit about the 18-month waiting period! Sheesh.

Mike, you're correct about me. But we still get attached to a unit and if they deploy every 20 minutes to lousy jobs, it gets either annoying or you get on the bad boy list for staying back on post too often to train medics at the hospital.


Mike Irwin
November 17, 2003, 12:03 AM

HEY DOC! GET YOUR HANDS OUT OF THE SH***ER! Romero needs surgery!

(Romero) Uh, can someone else do it? I know where his hands have been!

D.W. Drang
November 17, 2003, 01:48 AM
If you're looking for info on CCW ON POST, forget it. Anywhere.

In general, what you seem to want to know is what are the STATE laws regarding these US Army installations, correct? Number one on your list, Madigan Army Medical Center, Ft Lewis, WA... WA is good on CPLs (shall issue, etc.) , but priv8ter is incorrect, Washington "AC" is NOT a Class III state. At all. Period. No full auto allowed. Oh, you can BUY a suppresor, but you can't USE it. (Actually the law says "sound dampening devices", which seems to outlaw earplugs...)

And who knows what the deal is with Fort "Lost In The Woods, Misery"... :confused:

November 17, 2003, 02:03 AM
Alaska. Boy is it hot. :evil:

I think they just passed the carry whatever you want with no permission law

November 17, 2003, 02:30 AM
What about GA's 18 month waiting period? I assume you're exaggerating. I am in the AF with a DEROS of DEC04. I have GA, UT, and AK on my "dream sheet". Do I need to rethink my GA choice?

Bill Hook
November 17, 2003, 02:41 AM
18. Tripler, Honolulu HI
19. West Point, NY

I think both, based on my knowledge of their gun laws, would be out, though Hawaii might still be interesting enough for me to want to try it for the short haul.

BTW, I lived in 'Bama and it was as easy as getting a card from the sheriff, 3 signatures from people who know you, and less than $10 (this all might depend on your county) for a year permit.

November 17, 2003, 06:18 AM
Ft. Ain'tRight, Alaska is on the edge of town in Fairbanks. Did my last tour there and decided to stay. Alaska did pass "if you can get it, you can carry it" concealed carry that went into effect in September. The option also exists to get an AK CHL for times you wish to carry out of state. AK also recognizes CHLs from all states that issue them. Open carry has always been allowed and is common outside of town. The AK statutes regarding guns address their misuse only. We are Class 3 friendly and most CLEOs sign off on the forms.
Yes there are mosquitoes there in the summer. They aren't a foot long, but they do come in single, 2 and 4 engine models:D. Fishing for northern pike as long as your leg in some of the remote lakes and sloughs in the interior and king salmon just as big south of the AK Range is awesome. The hunting is great if you have a boat and get off the road system (which there isn't much of to begin with). The AK wilderness is very unforgiving if you make a mistake. Lots of land available for building, but you may have to pioneer it for a while since utilities may not have been established in the area yet.
However be prepared for some extreme cold weather at times. Temps as low as -40F and colder are common in winter. And I've seen it get down to-67F when I lived along the Yukon and Tanana Rivers. The extreme cold comes and goes throughout the winter and average temps for FBKS are around 0F to -5F. But as they say in Arizona about the's a dry cold.
If you prefer milder and more urban areas, Ft. Richardson in Anchorage is in the same command as Wainright. Be forewarned that to Alaskans or at least those of us from the interior, Anchorage is regarded as the northern burb of Seattle.
Alaska (Ancorage excepted) is truly a last frontier and you will probably experience more day to day personal freedom here than you've ever experienced anywhere else. That's what kept me here.

November 17, 2003, 06:59 AM
GA: Shall issue (BTW, your military ID IS your CCW. Off base. Check on Agusta is on the GA/SC border. Benning is, I think, the home of the Army shooting team. Summer humidity can be brutal.

Where did you get an 18 month waiting period? GA's instant check supercedes. Forms, money, check, gone.

November 17, 2003, 07:51 AM
I was leaning somewhat towards GA until that bit about the 18-month waiting period! Sheesh.

What 18-month waiting period? Is there something I don't know?

The reason GA is #1 on my list is because of the good gun laws, and it's location (Bible Belt=Abundance of Protestant Churches).

November 17, 2003, 07:53 AM
Just a note on Tacoma. There is NO class III period in washington state. BUt CCW is no sweat at all. Also Tacoma in particular has the worst crime in the state by a pretty fair margin. But, the rents are much lower than in seattle for example (but, for good reason).

November 17, 2003, 08:45 AM
Columbia, SC / Ft. Jackson

I live across I-20 from the Post. Great area to live in, lowest real estate prices in the state. CWP friendly, except the Post. Cannot carry on any military bases. Now, as far as Class III, Richland County's Sherriff WILL NOT sign off. Supposedly, the County Council has told him not to. So if class III is important, get in the city limits. I understand that they sometimes sign off on them. But then you have to live with Mayor Bob, and is money grabbing and assanine business deals that always fall through. Anyone ever hear of AirSouth? That was one of his business ventures at the taxpayers expense. Oh well, I better stop there before I get off topic. :banghead: :cuss:

November 17, 2003, 09:13 AM
Knob Creek just down the road and the whole state is overrun with deer! A few turkey are lurking around too. And also look at the beautiful horses and fast women (or is it the other way around?):D

November 17, 2003, 09:17 AM
Is it possible for you to get stationed at Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, AL? How about Fort Payne? Plenty of gun stores and several ranges in Huntsville and the surrounding communities.

If your a deer hunter, the season here lasts from October 15th to January 31st. Limits are one deer a day, with some exceptions.

As far as CCW, it's a may-issue state. However, don't let that dissuade you. All I had to do was show up to the court house, slap down $10, and wait a few days for the results of a cursory background investigation. From what I've heard by friends living in Huntsville, it's pretty much the same process, just a few dollars more expensive.

November 17, 2003, 10:31 AM
Sorry about the Class III misinformation. A guy I used to work with used to go down to Oregon every few months to pick up surpressors for some of his long-guns, and then he would talk about how he couldn't wait to get a chance to use them.

Maybe this is something I need to disavow all knowledge of.

Hmmm...I don't know about these other bases, but I saw something very sad the other day here in Washington. Madigan is located almost across the road from Ft. Murray, which is the HQ for the Washington National Guard. Earlier this week was 'Good Bye ' for about 2000 of our boys.

Well, there was a small group of protestors standing outside the gate waiting to ambush and ridicule these young wives and kids who aren't going to see their fathers/husbands for the next year!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only thing that made it the least bit tolerable was the group of folks with 'Support our Troops' signs outnumbered the anti's by about 10-1.

Still...there are times when I need to question the 'responsible' use of the 1st Ammendment.

Man, I must be getting old...look at that drifting off the point of the thread.



November 17, 2003, 11:10 AM
This is going to be a long reply, so bear with me.

Ft. Campbell is a good choice. As I'm sure you know, it straddles the TN / KY lines, with the majority being on the TN side. It is considered to be in KY because the post office is on the KY side of post, therefore it has a KY ZIP code.

The towns immediately outside the gates are Clarksville, TN and Oak Grove, KY. Hopkinsville, KY is about 10 miles north and Nashville, TN is less than an hour south. Clarksville has approximately 100,000 people in it, making it a decent-sized city. Oak Grove is considerably smaller, and Hop-town as it's called isn't too big or too small. Of course, Nashville is a major metropolitan city.

Both KY and TN have CCW, with KY accepting permits from all other states. The process to get a CCW is similiar in both states. Class, application, small fee, get it back pretty quickly. There is of course no CCW on post. Class III is legal in both states, and I highly doubt there will be any changes made in the laws of either state.

There are several gun shops in the area. Hopkinsville has a great one with a knowledgeable staff, decent prices, and an indoor range. There are also numerous pawn shops in the area. Also, there are gunshows in Nashville every month. The biggest PITA is the stupid requirement of most of the Clarksville dealers. By law, if you're active duty, all you need is your ID card, a copy of your orders, and a letter from your unit commander. However, most of the Clarksville dealers want to see a TN drivers license with a TN address on it. This is due to the TBI (TN Bureau of Investigations) being a PITA. Also, there is a $10 fee for the background check in TN, but none in KY.

As for hunting and fishing, the area is great. In TN, active duty military don't even need to buy a hunting license if they're on leave and have a signed DA31 with them. Also, you can hunt in both TN and KY, as well as on post. All told, if you got your limit for each season, in all areas, you could shoot something like 50 deer in a year. Obviously you don't need to, but you could.

Rent in the area is pretty decent, as is the cost of living. You shouldn't have a problem making a military paycheck last between paydays. Crime isn't too bad here, considering the size of the towns and the fact that it is a military town, which generally seems to attract crime.

There is a pretty good waiting list to get on post. They are currently building some additional houses, but that won't help too much.

As far as units go, there is of course the 101st, which is currently deployed. When they do return, I doubt they'll be going anywhere anytime soon. They've spent a lot of time deployed recently, and they'll definitly need some time to recover. Also, I believe the CoS intends to revamp them into his vision for a smaller, more mobile force. That'll take at least a year and won't even begin until they've been back several months.

There is also the 86th CASH, as I'm guessing you're in the medical field. They're a good unit, and don't deploy as a whole too often. When they do deploy, it's usually as small elements.

You could also go to selection and get assigned to 5th Group, but then you can gaurantee you'll be gone more often than you'll be at home.

And when it comes to micro-breweries, we have the BlackHorse Pub on Franklin Street. Their Barnstormer Red is great as is their food.

Hope this helps.

November 17, 2003, 11:34 AM
Further notes on MAMC/Ft Lewis:

As previously stated, CCW is a breeze in WA (WA was shall issue even before FL). Tacoma/Lakewood, right outside the base, does have crime problems, but there are plenty of other places to live-Puyallup to the North, Yelm to the SE, and Olympia to the south. Thurston county (Olympia) has generally less expensive housing and auto insurance than Pierce county (Tacoma).
Scenery is beautiful (can't beat sunrise over Mt Rainier) although the weather is wet and gray a lot. Tons of fishing-salmon and steelhead.
Tacoma is also home to the (in)famous Bulls Eye Shooter Supply of DC sniper fame, and Seattle holds the congressional district of Rep. "Baghdad" Jim McDermott.

November 17, 2003, 11:45 AM
Campbell is also within reasonable driving distance of Knox...

I dunno how things run in the medical field, but at Knox, the general attitude is that if you ain't a tanker, you ain't bleep. It is close to Louisville and Knob Creek.

I guess the decision there would depend - small town or large town?

November 17, 2003, 11:45 AM
VA is friendly to both CCW and Class 3. I live about 15 mins from Belvoir. PM if you have questions.


November 18, 2003, 03:52 AM
This is great stuff!
Everything you are tellng me is exactly the info I am looking for!
Please keep chiming in!
I included all possibilities for my PCS, but obviously I know that HI and MD (where I am now) and NY are terrible 'gun' states.
I figured i'd put them in in case someone said something that would make it worthwhile despite that. But so far I like the sound of the carolinas!
And about that 18-month residency requirement for GA??? Even for active duty military? Yuck.

November 18, 2003, 02:28 PM
And about that 18-month residency requirement for GA??? Even for active duty military? Yuck.

Could someone please explain what this 18-month residency requirement is for?

November 18, 2003, 03:26 PM
i've lived in Tacoma/Puyallup all my life. all the stuff said before is all true, including the fishing. i live 1 minute away from the Puyallup River and fish it often. the Chum and Steelhead are starting to run right now. also, we're close to some great snowsports if you like that sort of thing. there are better ranges than the Bullseye though. The Marksman is my favorite pistol range and there are 3 rifle ranges within 20 minutes that i can think of right now. and since you're military, you can use the Ft. Lewis range. i've been to it once before and it was pretty nice there.

i would avoid living in Lakewood if i could, its half good neighborhoods and half ghetto. i own a business in Lakewood so i speak from experience. i live in downtown Puyallup. its a nice little neighborhood. i find more people in WA to be gun friendly than anti. WA state patrol uses aiplanes to nab speeders on the stretch of I-5 that passes Ft. Lewis, so be careful there. luckily those tickets are easy to get shot down in court. there's a few good aiports within 30 minutes if you like flying, and Seattle has a lot to offer for weekend day trips. its about a 2-3 hour drive to the beach from here. lots of good fishing and recreation there. Tacoma's crime rates have dropped over the last ten years since the gang problem has been slowly dying out. it still exists but nowhere near the level it used to be. we did just get two Krispy Kreme's in town. parts of North Tacoma are very desirable from a real estate standpoint.

on the next go-around, it looks like we have a chance of getting rid of our democratic crappy governor, Gary (grid)Locke. that dude is worthless. as is the mayor of Seattle. at least we have Tim Eyman working for us. like him or not, he saves us money.

if you have any specific questions about anything, just post them here and i (and probably others too) will answer them for ya.


November 18, 2003, 03:50 PM
Clarksville, Tn. is about an hour north of Nashville. I've done a lot of research on things important to me-carry laws, political climate, crime rate, cost of living, weather, etc. For me this part of the country has the best combination of what I'm looking for. I suggest you talk to Oleg-I had lunch with him last week and I can assure you he is well versed on the legality issues. Don't forget this was Al Gore's home state-and he lost it! If he wins TN. the Supreme Ct. decision never happens cuz Al is Prez! Scary huh!! If you want more info or a more in depth and personal opinon e-mail and I'll be glad to help. I guess the best thing I can tell you about Middle Tn. is I'm here because I wanna be-not cuz I hafta. By the way-we have NO state income tax!

November 18, 2003, 11:29 PM
Texas is nice, gun friendly, CCW'd, but ya gotta watch out for the fire ants. They ARE everywhere!

November 18, 2003, 11:53 PM
Fort Rucker: SE Alabama. Miiiild winters, brutal summers, too warm in the spring and fall. Skeeters. Absolutely outstanding deer hunting all about. CCW is easy, even tho' we're a May Issue state, it's not likely you'll be denied. Easy access to the prettiest beaches in North America. Dunno about the locals, but IMHO, if you're a stand-up guy (Aren't we all, here on THR?), and you DON'T carp about how much better it is somewhere else, you'll make friends for a lifetime. Ozark is between (sorta) Dothan, AL and Montgomery, AL. Dunno where you're from or what your interests are, but neither of those burgs is a real cosmopolitan hub. B'ham and Atlanta are relatively easy drives, as is Mobile and Pensacola.

Edited to add: Class III is A-OK

November 19, 2003, 05:47 PM
the Not_so_ Commonwealth...

I'll chime in for Fort Belvoir as well. You would be far enough away from DC as to be comfortable, not high crime, but just a hop, skip and short PT run from LOTS of places of historical significance. VA ; Fairfax County where Belvoir is situated, is somewhat more liberal than the typical conservatives of VA, but not ridiculously so. Quite the contrary, even this area of VA takes gun ownership very seriously. VA is class 3 friendly, and FFX Sheriff Barry is good about the CLEO signoffs. There are local gun shops, and ranges close by. There are 2 nettlesome laws of concern - a few jurisdictions have "waiting periods", and there is a 1 gun a month law... somehting about having to buy one gun per month, so budget your money wisely. Prince William county is but a couple of miles south of Belvoir, and has no waiting period.
VA Requires open carry in alcohol serving establishments - no concealing.
The VA permit gets you carry privileges in West-by-God-Virginia, NC, TN and many more. Virginia law is moving in the right direction, not to the anti freedom crowd.
In VA, you will be right, smack dab in the middle of area that was the home of many Founding Fathers, and Civil War history.

Northern VA real estate isn't the cheapest, but you do get what you pay for here; not even condos or row houses lose money here. Traffic can also be pretty hateful in some of the choke points.

Good luck with whatever choice you make !

November 19, 2003, 08:59 PM
Alas, from where I sit I hear the 0530 mornig gun and all of the bugle calls. I live right across the Warwick Marsh, oops I mean River I from the Fort. Big military population in the area, Navy, Air Farce, Army and even some Coasties. Politics are a bit too liberal for my tastes. Good shooting is available within 20 minutes or less from the Fort. Lafayette Gun Club
Members, 100M rifle, 50 M and less pistol 50'indoor pistol/.22 and clay targets. Members and guests only. Another for 25 yard pistol is the Marksman
, public rage and gun shop. The summers are long hot and sultry, and the winters are generally mild. The local paper is a wanna be of the Chicago Tribune. Lots of activities year round in the area, just got to get used to the traffic. Schools are by all reports good. I have a near staight A 12yof and a 17yom special needs (Autism). New elementary school just opened on the Fort. Drop me a line if you settle in the area and we will hit Lafayette and the Marksman.

November 20, 2003, 05:02 PM
How come i am no longer being notified of replies?????

That's 2 forums out of 2 this happens.

Anyway, this is all great stuff.

I think i have made my rank of these places. i will let everyone know where i end up with orders to go so y'all can help me with exactly where to look for off-post housing!

Yes, AOC is 60N.

November 21, 2003, 12:51 AM
Avoid Lawton-Fort Sill.

Too hot in the summer. Tornados love this place. Unfriendly town, even to its residents.

Gun neutral at best. Gun stores are mostly pawn shops. Gun shows about every 2-3 years with little to offer. Lots of ranges - for the Army. Only a shotgun-skeet range for civilians - on Fort Sill. Closest CCW class is 80 miles away in OK City.

Arrogant, inept city council. Just last month a newby city council woman requested armed police guards for the council meetings - to protect the council from each other. But, hey, the city council is trying to spend $90,000 for a hockey rink now that they extorted more money from us via water bill hikes. We're paying for a mass transit system that will never break even because hardly anyone rides it.

City started a Santa shops Lawton campaign a few years ago because most people shop in OK City because we are tired of rude merchants and poor selection.

Area hasn't grown much in 30 years. Probably won't grow much in the next 30 years. Lots of people who work here drive from surrounding towns instead of living here.

I'm planning my escape.

November 21, 2003, 09:02 AM
13A, you're talking heresy. As an artillery officer, you're supposed to love Ft. Sill and the city of Lawton. Afterall, it is your 'home'. :barf:

I'm 100% with you actually. I'm so glad I never had to go back after AIT. That place is the most miserable hole on Earth. The weather there is absolutely nuts. I remember it being 60 degrees one day and -20 the next. That's freakin nuts. Another thing I remember about the weather is the smell after a rainstorm. Normally, I love how fresh the air smells after a good rain shower. However, in Lawton, all I could smell was dirt. Yes, dirt! Yuck!

Of course, if you're young, dumb, and full of ___, Lawton has plenty of things to occupy your time and fleece you out of your money. Suzies, the Golden Dragon, the Lucky Lady, City Limits (or Kiddie Limits as we called it), and plenty of other disreputable establishments.

I don't think I'd ever want to live in a town outside a TraDoc post. Too much BS from all the trainees blowing off steam and too many people ding everything they can to rob them of their money.


Tony Mig
November 21, 2003, 09:48 AM
Good thing Ft. Dix, NJ isn't on your list....

100% humidity from May til October, Skeeters, and greenhead flies that not only bite & sting, but can pick up a small child and fly away with them. Long hot summers that turn into instant winter...(and the humidity doesn't readily go away in winter, so if feels colder than it actually is)...

Now for the really fun part....I don't call this place The Democratic People's Republic of New Jersey for think the laws in ********** are bad, New Jersey is the home of Democratic Senator Frank "I want all your guns" Lautenburg...who recently ram rodded yet another gun law onto the books of NJ that gives this state the power to confiscate all your guns if you get into any kind of domestic dispute...(This includes raising your voice towards your wife or other family member, or nieghbor)...get into an arguement, and kiss your guns good bye.....:rolleyes:
It's also home to the "No Fault" auto insurance law, and way too many other stupid, useless laws that I have room to list here....

So my point is, if you ever get offered a transffer to a base in this God forsaken state.....RUN....Run fast and don't look back....!

November 21, 2003, 07:08 PM
Alas, OFF_VET! All those attractions are gone. That blasted city council again. All the T&A bars are outside of Lawton city limits. Absolutely nothing left of interest in Lawton.

November 21, 2003, 08:08 PM
Can't carry in Hospital's or schools in Washington(in addition to all the normal no-no places ie Court Houses, Airports, Post Offices.) Of can't carry on the Fort Lewis base either...

This only applies to mental hospitals and university-run hospitals (although U-run hospitals are somewhat of a gray area as are all WA state colleges).

Check out for the latest and greatest.


November 21, 2003, 08:18 PM
what 18 month wait are you guys referring to for GA?

November 24, 2003, 02:13 AM
what 18 month wait are you guys referring to for GA?

Beats me. I didn't know of one until I read what cpileri said. I think it's probably something somebody's brother's uncle's friend's cousin who was visiting there in 1960 said was law. I have never read about any 18-month waiting period anywhere else.

November 24, 2003, 03:46 AM
Some of this has been said already...

I've lived around Northern VA nearly all my life, 6 years in DC. Spent my youth shooting at Ft Belvoir and Quantico ranges. I'm not military though.

Virginia is pro-gun, although the "open carry" isn't a practical law. It'll just give you grief. Kinda like the "armed biker at the carnival" thread.

DC is extremely anti-gun. Don't CCW and miss the off ramp and end up in DC! :eek: There is recent talk of changing the laws to allow guns, but it's a long shot. Still, it's something.

Northern Virginia... lotsa people, 4 seasons, one of the best kayaking spots in the US (betcha didn't know that!), real estate/ rent prices go from high to skys-the-limit unless you want a several hour commute, several beaches within 4 hour drive, bays and rivers, traffic bad and gettin worse, people tend to be more hurried/ impersonal/ uptight the closer you get to DC but nothing like NY, short drive to rural mountainous areas, great business and employment potential, no shortage of universities/ malls / etc... As with any area some places should be avoided, but nothing really bad unless you go into DC or some parts of MD. Ok I'll keep going... no extreme weather really with pretty mild extremes although people freak when it snows an inch and they shift traffic into idle speed, humidity here is worse than the heat if that makes sense, lotsa airports close by, I've noticed an abundance of good looking women in recent years :scrutiny:, NRA is nearby, most people I have lived by in VA had at least one gun in the house, elementary/high schools in NoVa tend to be excellent for public schools at least (don't even think of DC public schooling your kids even if you end up in DC), need salt water and fresh water fishing licenses but they're cheap, everything is taxed, lots of Civil War sites around, not really a vacation destination area unless you count the tourists in DC, think that's it, wait no, yea, ummmmmmm, yea that's about it.

November 24, 2003, 04:04 AM
18 month residency requirement b4 u can apply in georgia. so i hear. not true?

November 24, 2003, 07:11 AM
I don't see anything about it on's Georgia page, located here:

Thanks for clarifying what it was for.

If you are active duty US Military, in Georgia your ID card is your permit.

November 24, 2003, 02:00 PM
Ft. Rucker is a VERY Nice place.
GUN Friendly/Beautiful Country Living/1.5 hours from the beach/Good Deer hunting/Good People/Nice community/Great parks and outdoor activities fro the family/GUN Friendly/GUN Friendly/Awesome Place........


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