Concealed carry at stadium events?


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SSN Vet
January 30, 2010, 09:07 PM
So we took the kiddos to a stadium event (ice show) and I was debating whether it was o.k. to carry. I read all the fine print on the ticket and it stated that no drugs or alcholol or "contraband" (whatever that is) are allowed, along with no "unauthorized" video taping or recording the event. So I decide to carry because we're going to travel to the city, have to park in an unfamiliar area and walk in, and we're going out for dinner afterwards.

It's two degrees outside and we're bundled up like penguins for the two block walk from the parking to the stadium. I expected they'd rummage through any bags at the gate, looking for bombs and booze, and I'm watching for signs and metal detectors... figuring that if they are using them, I'll have to go back to the car and leave my piece behind. I don't see either so we get in line. They check my wifes big Bean bag and don't even raise an eyebrow at the cam corder or camera. The kids get waived through and then the security guy surprises me....

He says I'll have to open up my coat so he can pat my sides :uhoh:

I am exactly one step inside the building... on their property, under their rules... whatever they are, and I'm wondering if their going to...
1. sound the alarm and call in the calvary
2. hall me into some room and call for the police
3. seize my ticket and kick me out
4. politely tell me that I'll have to go put that away and come back.

So the guy (standing to my left) pats his right hand on my left hip and reaches around and pats my right side at 3 o'clock, just on the front edge of my pancake....

"Enjoy the show"

"O.K. thanks, try to stay warm"

and off to the show...

So, lesson learned... when in a pinch, keep a straight face and your wits around you.

And a questions....

How the heck are you supposed to know what the rules are at these events.... they don't seem to be very forthcoming.

If Mr. security guard had put his hand 2" farther aft, what do you think the outcome would have been.

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smince
January 30, 2010, 09:12 PM
A definite advantage for appendix carry :D

joejoeshooter
January 30, 2010, 09:14 PM
What concerns me is the fact that they looked in your wife's purse and patted you for a ICE SHOW!!!???

I go downtown Nashville for a lot of events at our arena. Like you, I like to have mine on me as well. Most of the time my son is with me - but I just leave it in the car.

jjs

sv51macross
January 30, 2010, 09:14 PM
Fortunately, if you have a CPL here in Michigan, you don't have to bother with concealment in a pistol-free zone.

mljdeckard
January 30, 2010, 09:15 PM
These guys don't usually know. I have called in advance of such events and been told different things by the same security office more than once.

oasis618
January 30, 2010, 09:17 PM
I would have done the same thing you did...but...on the other side of the coin, this security guy failed at his job. I've been patted down going into concerts before and could have literally had an AR-15 down my pant leg and not have had it discovered. In my opinion if you are going to hire security, they should be finding what they are looking for. I run into this all the time; it seems like whenever I really feel like I should be carrying is when I'm going somewhere that I'm not allowed to carry. Unfortunately the 2nd amendment is trumped by state law and often company policy time and time again.

leadcounsel
January 30, 2010, 09:47 PM
Smoke and mirrors to appease the public. Just like TSA. People get crap on planes all the time because TSA is a joke.

Jim_100
January 30, 2010, 10:11 PM
"Fortunately, if you have a CPL here in Michigan, you don't have to bother with concealment in a pistol-free zone."
What does this mean? I thought in Michigan one can not carry in a stadium type event. Maybe it over 2,500? Do you mean open carry?
Thanks.

sv51macross
January 30, 2010, 10:22 PM
Jim,

Yes, a Michigander may ignore the pistol-free zone list if open-carrying whilst in possession of a Concealed Pistol License.

stroked250
January 30, 2010, 10:42 PM
Dumb trick I'v used... Cell phone gets cliped onto my belt right in the middle of my IWB holster. I carry a full size 1911, hasnt been found yet! Last time I got the pat down at eh civic center, he hit the cell phone, didnt find the gun and moved on. Maybe Im just lucky?

MinnMooney
January 31, 2010, 12:27 AM
Is that a rule at stadium events? No weapons? Knives? Rolling pins?

SSN Vet
January 31, 2010, 09:12 AM
Is that a rule at stadium events? No weapons? Knives? Rolling pins?

That's one of my points? They're obviously searching for weapons (pad down of your sides under your coat) ... but they don't post the building or specify on the ticket. Searching several pages deep on their web site, I found this....

Arena Entry

All persons entering the facility are subject to search of their persons and belongings at the discretion of the Verizon Wireless Arena.
All jackets, pockets and bags will be searched upon entry. Purses, diaper bags and other small personal bags are allowed, but will be inspected at all entrances.
No large bags, backpacks or boxes are allowed in the building.
Patrons with prohibited items will be turned away at entrances and no storage or "check in" area will be provided for such items.
Items confiscated at entry will not be returned to the owner at anytime during or after the event has concluded.
In addition, the following items are not permitted inside the Verizon Wireless Arena:

Food or beverage (with the exception of those having a food allergy)
Cans, bottles, coolers or other similar containers
Video cameras or audio recorders
Laser pens or laser products
Oversized signs
Knives, guns, chains or clubs
Illegal substances
Weapons of any kind or any item that can be construed as a weapon
Any other item deemed unacceptable by the Verizon Wireless Arena Management
Verizon Wireless Arena management reserves the right to make the final determination on prohibited items. In the event that prohibited items are revealed in a search, guests will be asked to dispose of the items or return them to their cars before re-entering the building.

GunsAmerica Fan
January 31, 2010, 09:27 AM
Most venues have a no weapons policy because of insurance requirements. They generally will also have signs before the security checkpoint, and from there it depends on the state. In florida we have specific places we are not allowed to carry with a CCW, and we are supposed to honor the sign if a business owner posts one. I have heard that all they can do is ask you to leave if they find it, but the statutory places are a whole other thing.

61chalk
January 31, 2010, 09:31 AM
Sounds like if they had found your gun, they would of takin it an you
wouldn't be getting it back.....Ooooooch!!!

SaxonPig
January 31, 2010, 09:51 AM
State law decides what may happen as far as prohibiting guns into events. In my state the law bars CC at any event with 500 or more people in attendance and property owners may post signs prohibiting CC. Most venues are always posted and I know the law so I don't even try to carry at such things.

I would question the legality of a private entity confiscating personal property and not returning it. One thing to prohibit possession but another to take it and not return it. Depending on how forceful the attempt is, anyone trying to take my handgun is subject to:

1. Being shot.

2. Having his ass kicked.

3. Dealing with my wife (the attorney).

wishin
January 31, 2010, 09:58 AM
Sounds like if they had found your gun, they would of takin it an you
wouldn't be getting it back.....Ooooooch!!!
From what I read, he could have taken the gun to his car at their request. Unfortunately, in Georgia one can't carry at a public sporting event. At least it's clearly stated in the law, although there's a revised bill in the works that might fix this.

deadin
January 31, 2010, 10:06 AM
Some of you need to go back and re-read the rules as posted by SSN.
It says that if prohibited items are found you have the CHOICE of disposing of them there OR taking them back to your vehicle. The "confiscated" (i.e. disposed of) items will not be returned. If you choose to dump your gun in the provided trash can you don't deserve to get it back. Nowhere does it say they are going to take your property without your consent. Only that you will not be allowed in with it.

Blackbeard
January 31, 2010, 11:09 AM
More importantly, if you do need to use your CCW in a stadium, you'll have to break the four rules, since there is literally nowhere you can safely point your gun when you're surrounded by thousands of people. Probably why they don't allow firearms in the stadium in the first place.

wishin
January 31, 2010, 11:22 AM
More importantly, if you do need to use your CCW in a stadium, you'll have to break the four rules, since there is literally nowhere you can safely point your gun when you're surrounded by thousands of people. Probably why they don't allow firearms in the stadium in the first place.
True, but good judgement should always prevail, no matter what the law reads. It needs to be my decision.

gloucestergarand
January 31, 2010, 11:22 AM
Went to see Walking with Dinosaurs. CC'd my PP vice my 1911 for some reason. Did not notice any signs, less restrictions on bringing food and drink in. Gatekeeper asked wifey to open her purse. Said nothing to me. Once we were in and seated, saw a sign prohibiting "illegal weapons". Just smiled. Noted that sheeple practically ignored the "no flash photography" announcement throughout the show. Lesson Learned: Dress nicely, act like an adult, be treated as one.

sfc_mark
January 31, 2010, 12:42 PM
In my state the law bars CC at any event with 500 or more people in attendance

Ah, clearly written laws...how refreshing. In GA the rule is no carry at a "public gathering." Said gathering is defined nowhere in the law, so even the LEOs are confused and sometimes pick people up for violating an undefined standard.

This not only leaves us with no idea where/when we're really allowed to carry by law, but leaves the law open to abuse by the unscrupulous minority.

Since there is no definition in the law, 2,000 good old boys at a Civil War reenactment may be deemed not a "public gathering" for the purposes of the code section, while across town 3-4 young (black, Hispanic, long-haired, etc) men in the park or convenience store parking lot is (both examples have been construed that way by LE).

Luckily, there are not one but two bills pending in the state legislature to both remove the public gathering restriction from the law and define a broad range of places where carry is expressly permitted.

Just another reminder that it's not just the winter weather that kept me from moving back to MD when I retired from the Army.

wishin
January 31, 2010, 01:11 PM
Ah, clearly written laws...how refreshing. In GA the rule is no carry at a "public gathering." Said gathering is defined nowhere in the law, so even the LEOs are confused and sometimes pick people up for violating an undefined standard.

Georgia's law does consider sporting events, along with a few other places specified, as "public gatherings".

O.C.G.A. 16-11-127
Carrying deadly weapons to or at public gatherings; affirmative defenses


(a) Except as provided in Code Section 16-11-127.1, a person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor when he or she carries to or while at a public gathering any explosive compound, firearm, or knife designed for the purpose of offense and defense.

(b) For the purpose of this Code section, "public gathering" shall include, but shall not be limited to, athletic or sporting events, churches or church functions, political rallies or functions, publicly owned or operated buildings, or establishments at which alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises and which derive less than 50 percent of their total annual gross food and beverage sales from the sale of prepared meals or food. Nothing in this Code section shall otherwise prohibit the carrying of a firearm in any other public place by a person licensed or permitted to carry such firearm by this part.

Gouranga
January 31, 2010, 01:39 PM
NC bans them at any event that you have to pay to gain admittance. So CCW or not, it would be illegal to bring it in.

61chalk
January 31, 2010, 01:56 PM
OK..lets go back an read again an please clearly tell me where I'm wrong...

"Patrons with prohibited items will be turned away at entrances an no storage
or check in will be provided." So as you approach the entrance they see your
gun or find out you have one an you are turned back.....BUT the OP I believe said
he had entered when he was checked inside....so would he of been given a choice?
"Items confiscated at ENTRY will not be returned to owner"
You enter with a prohibited item (GUN), they confiscate it because you are with it
inside....where then does it say they will give you a choice of leaving with it....?

sfc_mark
January 31, 2010, 02:41 PM
Georgia's law does consider sporting events, along with a few other places specified, as "public gatherings".

This is true. I'm well aware of that restriction since it's readily available both in the law and printed on the back of my GFL.

The problem is "but shall not be limited to" leaves any gathering of two or more members of the public up to the interpretation of LE and prosecutors. This is unacceptable to the public and, it seems, at least two legislators.

ChaoSS
January 31, 2010, 03:29 PM
OK..lets go back an read again an please clearly tell me where I'm wrong...

"Patrons with prohibited items will be turned away at entrances an no storage
or check in will be provided." So as you approach the entrance they see your
gun or find out you have one an you are turned back.....BUT the OP I believe said
he had entered when he was checked inside....so would he of been given a choice?
"Items confiscated at ENTRY will not be returned to owner"
You enter with a prohibited item (GUN), they confiscate it because you are with it
inside....where then does it say they will give you a choice of leaving with it....?

He said he was one step inside the building, that qualifies as the entrance.


Even if they somehow found him out when he was already in and seated, all they could legally do is escort him out and tell him he couldn't come back in with the gun.

61chalk
January 31, 2010, 04:18 PM
One step in qualifies as the entrance.....I can understand that point.
But when is it then that they could confiscate something that was
prohibited....? Is it really that they can't confiscate? If so why then do they
say that they can....they can never take a prohibited item ever?

wishin
January 31, 2010, 04:23 PM
Sfc Mark wrote:
Ah, clearly written laws...how refreshing. In GA the rule is no carry at a "public gathering." Said gathering is defined nowhere in the law, so even the LEOs are confused and sometimes pick people up for violating an undefined standard.

No insult intended Sfc Mark. I understood your comment above to mean that there were no gatherings defined at all. At least we can be sure of our state law in a public sports venue.

razorback2003
January 31, 2010, 05:10 PM
I've used a pocket holster and a J frame and never had a problem when carrying at baseball games or concerts. No one knows. It was hilarious these teenagers asking folks at a concert to raise up their shirts and i just walked on through. About the only way I can be 'found out' is walking through metal detectors.

I don't care to walk around downtown Memphis at night without a handgun after any type of event. Stay safe.

MrWesson
January 31, 2010, 06:29 PM
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Most venues have a no weapons policy because of insurance requirements. They generally will also have signs before the security checkpoint, and from there it depends on the state. In florida we have specific places we are not allowed to carry with a CCW, and we are supposed to honor the sign if a business owner posts one. I have heard that all they can do is ask you to leave if they find it, but the statutory places are a whole other thing.


Under Florida law businesses with signs stating no firearms are just asking you not to and you have every right to carry there including a bank. If found out you will be asked to leave and possibly asked not to return but you will break no law. Another example is a movie theater they have signs posted but no grounds to back it up it is just them asking you not to carry. also 823.05 relates to gang activity

These are the only places you may not carry in Florida
o any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05
o any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station
o any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse
o any courtroom*
o any polling place
o any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district
o any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof
o any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms
o any school administration building
o any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption*
o any elementary or secondary school facility
o any area technical center
o any college or university facility*
o inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport*
o any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law

wrs840
January 31, 2010, 07:00 PM
Lesson Learned: Dress nicely, act like an adult, be treated as one.

This works effectively in soooo many situations... I'm astounded more people these days don't practice this as a proactive strategy in order to reap it's many benefits.

Les

deadin
January 31, 2010, 07:01 PM
You enter with a prohibited item (GUN), they confiscate it because you are with it
inside....where then does it say they will give you a choice of leaving with it....?

Likewise, where does it say they will consficate it? or will they just ask you to leave?

84B20
January 31, 2010, 08:12 PM
Below is my philosophy. If they don't allow I don't spend.

http://www.compupal.com/Darkroom/shiloh.jpg

SSN Vet
January 31, 2010, 08:37 PM
if you do need to use your CCW in a stadium

the only thing that concerned me inside the stadium (since we had great seats) was the guy trying to sell me a snow cone for $10 :eek:

It's 2 degrees outside, I'm getting warmed up in the ice arena, and these dopes think I'm going to spend $10 on a snow cone :scrutiny:

What really concerned me was the walk from parking to the stadium and the return journy in the dark. Though in all honesty, it was probably to cold out for your run of the mill criminal, labor standards being what they are and all ;)

All's well that ends well, I guess...

Next time I'll plow through the web pages b4 the show.

Jerico
January 31, 2010, 09:13 PM
Oddly enough, I had to make exactly the same choice last Wednesday. I was taking the girls to see "Disney Princesses on Ice". The stadium is in a less than savory part of Manchester. Before we left, we looked up the rules for the venue. The stadium prohibited weapons, and has a policy of confiscation so I left my g19 in the truck. Did security search me well enough to have found it? No. Do I want my girl growing up to see that daddy follows the rules? Yes. Will I carry next time, now knowing how laxed security is? No. I have no interest in losing my CC license over something like this.

wrs840
January 31, 2010, 09:29 PM
I have no interest in losing my CC license over something like this.

I sympathize, but the OP felt he was required to take too-long a walk through too-dangerous a part of town to not consider the options. I've been there, it ain't as simple as you present... Before I disarmed and made my kids take their chances, I'd probably just find an alternative to taking them to a venue in a dirt-bag infested area. Life's full of decisions like this.

Les

SSN Vet
January 31, 2010, 11:21 PM
I didn't think to check the web site b4 hand... didn't see a sign and there was no specific ban in the fine print on the back of the ticket stub. I was one step inside the door b4 I realized they were doing body searches....

I contemplated turning around and bolting... but knew it would distress my wife and kids.

I was sweating bullets that my kids were going to get to see dad arrested or a best outcome, I get my ticket yanked and wait in the car for 2 hours.

That's a lot of money to pay to be humiliated.

But as it turned out, we had a good time and went home happy and safe.

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